Author Topic: Starter Pinion Grinding.....?  (Read 1698 times)

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Offline Verdamn

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Starter Pinion Grinding.....?
« on: July 09, 2008, 08:26:55 pm »
Dont you just love it, jump in turn the key....grrgxvxgghh !!!   :o That noise sounds terminal.
I have had a look at the flywheel teeth through the inspection holes. Most seem pretty okay,
slight shine and  new wear on a few. Seems to be only a part of the revolution that maybe
doesnt engage properly. It even has me wondering if the cold weather and fuel mix is causing
a bit of pre-igniting and throwing the pinion back out momentarily.
Car will still start no problem but I'm wary of leaving it to long.
Cant say the cold wet weather has encouraged crawling underneath to remove starter
If anyone has had similar problems or can advise what the cause is likely to be, could be helpful.  ???
1990 Audi 90 NG Engine
Audi 90 x 2
VF 800 Intruder
1981 XT Corona L/B (laid to rust)

Offline BB

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Re: Starter Pinion Grinding.....?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2008, 11:50:22 am »
It will be the starter teeth that will be worn more than the flywheel. In the old days thats where you could tell the quality between the pommy crap and the german stuff cause the teeth never wear on a german flywheel pretty much. Get your starter fixed or swap for a good 2nd hand one.
 Sometimes they do get all glogged up and they need to be removed and cleaned and lubed. People in the old days used to chuck em in a pail of petrol to clean em.
The end is nigh, but the end of what is the question?

Offline Trofeo

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Re: Starter Pinion Grinding.....?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2008, 03:48:44 pm »
Try putting the car in gear 3rd or 4th and pushing the car a few centimetres to turn the flywheel a little. If this fixes it then you know you have some badly worn teeth on the flywheel.

Otherwise.. perhaps the starter pinon is not flying out and engaging properly. ie only going half way. Reasons for this could be
1) dirt/clutch dust/crud in the mechanism
2) battery is too flat to spin starter fast enough for it to engage properly
3) solenoid not passing enough current to engage starter properly

hope this helps


2015 Amarok 4WD auto
2018 Golf R-Line Tsi

Offline Verdamn

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Re: Starter Pinion Grinding.....?
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2008, 08:48:23 pm »
  ::) Ye Gads... I tried to get the starter out of spare car tonight, the head was off,
and still couldn't get at it without completely removing exhaust. I thought then
it would be easy to remove, ah-ah na, -top bolt locked 2 or 3" swing, 3ft bar,
ah-ah na. Oh well try the bottom bolt, oh dear fancywings bolt, ;D make another
tool, looks like I'll have to find a rattle gun too.
I want my 81' Toyota back, 10mins starter was out....
"The Joys of Motoring"..... ::)
Audi 90 x 2
VF 800 Intruder
1981 XT Corona L/B (laid to rust)

Offline BB

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Re: Starter Pinion Grinding.....?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2008, 08:37:21 am »
You talking about an Audi 90? 5 cylynder? Cause if you are your doing it all wrong. You don't need to remove exhaust, and that funny wing bolt if you look at the other side of it there is a nut, I dont know why they used that funny bolt but the nut is at the other end. And to reach the boltsyou do it from under the car and with a socket on a long extension so you can get the swing you need.
The end is nigh, but the end of what is the question?

Offline Pushbutton_auto

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Re: Starter Pinion Grinding.....?
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2008, 09:03:02 am »
Easy to get the starter nut off with a flat spanner, like a ring spanner but flat, gets in the hole and gives enough clearance.

top bolt with a bar or extension, usually people do them up too tight, but better than the starter moving !
Beating up parking wardens ain't a crime.

Offline Verdamn

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Re: Starter Pinion Grinding.....?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2008, 12:01:33 pm »
Thanks for info : is helpful. Part 1 done spare is out.  :P  I did have to make the tool,
this 90, the nut on bottom bolt is recessed partially in gearbox and can only get a
ring or flat spanner onto it, little or no turning ability.
Dread attempting the replacement swap Part 2... and I will look at avoiding removing
the exhaust, which I thought wasnt necessary either. 
Audi 90 x 2
VF 800 Intruder
1981 XT Corona L/B (laid to rust)

Offline Pushbutton_auto

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Re: Starter Pinion Grinding.....?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2008, 12:56:46 pm »
there is clearance, just slow, 1/4 turn .... ..
Beating up parking wardens ain't a crime.

Offline Verdamn

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Re: Starter Pinion Grinding.....?
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2008, 07:09:37 pm »
Thanks  pushbutton, I'll try it tomorrow rain or shine even if I grind a flat
down for more turn.
Love those Super Snipes since very young, long time since I've seen one.
Is that the flathead 6, car weighs about 1.5ton- was told they practically
have a truck chassis. Love to see one restored- that your plan ?
Audi 90 x 2
VF 800 Intruder
1981 XT Corona L/B (laid to rust)

Offline Pushbutton_auto

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Re: Starter Pinion Grinding.....?
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2008, 07:21:27 pm »
 
  :)

 Not mine, we had one back in seventies, though, cost $60, weighed a ton and we used it like a tank, but
 also cruisied up north in it a couple of times.

 can't say exactly what we did, but, i can say, you can drive thru roller doors, :angel:, and take on buses,  >:D
 
Beating up parking wardens ain't a crime.

Offline BB

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Re: Starter Pinion Grinding.....?
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2008, 08:05:40 pm »
Wild man! Repo jobs eh ;)
The end is nigh, but the end of what is the question?

Offline Verdamn

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Re: Starter Pinion Grinding.....?
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2008, 06:46:47 pm »
Yahooooo !  ;D Its out, ha not the nicest or easiest. Had to borrow the neighbours
foot on a 20" crescent on my home made tool to crack the ...stard. Yep comes out
without the removal of manifold. Tricky putting spare back have to do the nut blind.
One things for sure, the wingy bolts arent going back, Audi lost some brownie on those.

The problem with the starter... the end bush doesnt exist anymore, vanished to thin
air. Poor old Armature been floating around 3/8", probably ground up inside a bit.
I think Bosch did a sh..t design there  >:(, no internal support bearing just a bronze?
end shaft sleeve that you could never lubricate. Cause - probably seized ,turned
in the alloy housing till it was flogged and could fall out. Poor for any reliability.  ???
Audi 90 x 2
VF 800 Intruder
1981 XT Corona L/B (laid to rust)

Offline 5-pot

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Re: Starter Pinion Grinding.....?
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2008, 10:11:00 pm »
It has survived this long though.  They can't have done that bad a job designing the thing  ;)
“The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it.” - Thucydides (Ancient Greek historian and author, 460-404bc)

- 1990 Coupe quattro - R.I.P.
- 1988 90 quattro project... Sold
- 2005 Golf 2.0 TDI

Offline Verdamn

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Re: Starter Pinion Grinding.....?
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2008, 02:00:54 pm »
5-pot, very true,  ( -160,000km) I'm no engineer but near every motor I've seen up
to 20hp has always had self lube internal bearings either end of the shaft. Most
often pre- the drive pulley,or gear. Most alternators too. I guess it is more supporting
other side of the drive gear, but it is not a bearing, but a bush ??
Have no idea what the No. of comparative failures would be in either case.

Thinking that you pre-treat bronze with heat for it to absorb the oil to be self
lubing but from there it still has to be lubed periodically. The starter bush is not
accessible to lube. Wouldnt be sure what caused the failure in this instance, as the
actual bearing doesnt exist any more, could have been poor fit and plainly fell out ?
I would say that Bosch must have done a good job of the rest, as with 3/8" of
play in the armature it still kept going.
Now the replacement is in, yeehah ! Nothing like the sweet sound of a quiet
smooth running starter.  ;D
Audi 90 x 2
VF 800 Intruder
1981 XT Corona L/B (laid to rust)