Oil for an RS2

Started by RS ZWEI, September 16, 2008, 02:28:58 PM

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RS ZWEI

So I'm going to try a 10w40 in the RS2. It seems a bit strange to use the same oil as I put in the VR6 though? I would have thought that the RS2 would have a more highly tuned engine and therefore a more performance oil would be required?

Currently I don't know what oil is in the car, from cold it has 5 bar oil pressure and doesn't smoke at all.
Oil temp though only gets up to the lowest reading (60 degrees) on the oil temp gauge however I drive it.

Would Shell HELIX PLUS 10W-40 be fine to run in the car?
1980 VW Golf GTI Track Car
1995 Audi RS2
2003 Mini Cooper S (Written off - rear ended)
2005 Mini Cooper S
2006 Skoda Octavia vRS Combi
2009 Renault Megane 230 R26 (Written off - rear ended)
2013 Renault Megane RS265 Redbull RB8

80 Vert

So I'm going to try a 10w40 in the RS2. It seems a bit strange to use the same oil as I put in the VR6 though?

Why strange they are both engines are they not?  ;)
Just use a good quality oil and all will be sweet.
2010 T5 Transporter TDI  Tuned by Superior Tuning NZ
2003 Jetta Coupe soon to be R36TT
1991 Golf GTI 2.0 TSI swapped
1963 Type 34 Karmann Ghia, turbo 2.0
1990 Porsche 964 911 Carrera 4
1980 1303 Beetle vert, under restoration

RS ZWEI

Quote from: vert1 on September 30, 2008, 09:51:32 PM
So I'm going to try a 10w40 in the RS2. It seems a bit strange to use the same oil as I put in the VR6 though?

Why strange they are both engines are they not?  ;)
Just use a good quality oil and all will be sweet.

The Shell HELIX PLUS 10W-40 has done me well in the VR6. I was thinking since its a 10W-40 I should use it in the RS2.


Also, I cant find how much oil the RS2 uses but 4.5L rings a bell. Is this correct?
1980 VW Golf GTI Track Car
1995 Audi RS2
2003 Mini Cooper S (Written off - rear ended)
2005 Mini Cooper S
2006 Skoda Octavia vRS Combi
2009 Renault Megane 230 R26 (Written off - rear ended)
2013 Renault Megane RS265 Redbull RB8

veedubman

sounds a little low ?


the GTI 20v used to use 4.4

my R32 used to use over 6.5


BB

put 4 liters in and check it then add the other half if it needs it. If it needs more add by half liter.
Your car should run at 100 with the needle pointing straight up. If not replace your thermostat its opening to early. Its better to be the correct temp to cool is not better.
The oils rating is not really a indication of its quality, its just how thick or thin it is. Its the SL/SG type codes that say if its up to the quality.
Don't worry oil confuses me too.
The end is nigh, but the end of what is the question?

veedubman

Quote from: some fuel company dorkOil is Oil... other than that its all a big have!

RS ZWEI

1980 VW Golf GTI Track Car
1995 Audi RS2
2003 Mini Cooper S (Written off - rear ended)
2005 Mini Cooper S
2006 Skoda Octavia vRS Combi
2009 Renault Megane 230 R26 (Written off - rear ended)
2013 Renault Megane RS265 Redbull RB8

SimonS2

Don't think there's any diff at all.

What oil will you use?

Period_Correct_

my lecturer reckons, its better to keep the oil clean, so in his cars, he changes his oil every 3 months, and uses the cheapest stuff available...

it comes down to the what kind of power the car is pushing, and does it NEED an expensive oil.
1971 Porsche 911T | 1990 Audi Quattro Turbo | 2003 Audi RS6 Avant | 2009 Renault Megane R26

SimonS2

I'd say the Helix or whatever would be Ok if you're just gonna tootle around the streets with the wife and kids, and a labrador in the back of the wagon.

But IMHO a synthetic oil is better if you're going to get the oil hot, as noted above:
"...criteria for this is based on oil temps as an sae 40 semi-synthetic can handle around 110degC for limited periods whereas a proper synthetic sae 40 can hande 120-130degC for prolonged periods due to its thermal stability..."

As I noted earlier, to me Motul seemed much better at the track in the S2 (V300 I think, fully synthetic) than a semi-synthetic like M1 or Helix.

RS ZWEI

Quote from: SimonS2 on October 01, 2008, 12:00:41 PM
I'd say the Helix or whatever would be Ok if you're just gonna tootle around the streets with the wife and kids, and a labrador in the back of the wagon.

But IMHO a synthetic oil is better if you're going to get the oil hot, as noted above:
"...criteria for this is based on oil temps as an sae 40 semi-synthetic can handle around 110degC for limited periods whereas a proper synthetic sae 40 can hande 120-130degC for prolonged periods due to its thermal stability..."

As I noted earlier, to me Motul seemed much better at the track in the S2 (V300 I think, fully synthetic) than a semi-synthetic like M1 or Helix.

I think the Helix is fully synthetic?
At the moment I dont know what oil is in the car but the oil temp never get any higher than 65 degrees. I would think the engine would be better if it was running at a higher oil temp?

I dont have plans to put the car on the track, I have the GTI for that.

What oil temp does your S2 run at with just standard driving Simon?
1980 VW Golf GTI Track Car
1995 Audi RS2
2003 Mini Cooper S (Written off - rear ended)
2005 Mini Cooper S
2006 Skoda Octavia vRS Combi
2009 Renault Megane 230 R26 (Written off - rear ended)
2013 Renault Megane RS265 Redbull RB8

veedubman

Get some motul synthetic or 10w60 Formula R or even Mobile 1

RS ZWEI

Quote from: Ante on October 01, 2008, 12:23:30 PM
Get some motul synthetic or 10w60 Formula R or even Mobile 1

Did you read scraggy's post on page two?

Quote from: scraggy on September 17, 2008, 08:56:30 PM
Here's some comment from Oilman on s2forum about 10w60 and some oil temp versus w comment. My 150K S2 is smoking a bit on idle, so I may well be using the wrong oil..I might be better off going to 10w40.

I get asked all the time "why do you advise against the use of 10w-60?".

Let's get one thing clear, I supply 10w-60 and recommend it where it is appropriate for the engine or the application but conversly I caution against it's misuse!

I have debated this many times on many car forums and I know there are some that do not agree with me however I have never had a reasonable technical explanation why 10w-60 is in fact suitable, it's certainly not mentioned in the handbooks of many modern highly tuned performance cars, with the exception of some Alfa Romeos for "spirited driving" whatever that is meant supposed mean.

Explaining this is diffucult so there may be questions but I'll try my best to explain it in plain English!

Lets look at what oil specs actually mean and particularly the higher number which is in fact the oils SAE number (the "w" number is in fact the cold crank viscosity and measured in a different way) The SAE number is measured by the oils viscosity at 100degC.

Your cars require according to the manufacturers specs, sae 30, 40 and in some cases sae 50.

To attain the relevent sae number the oil has to be at 100degC (no thinner than)

SAE 30 11cst approx
SAE 40 14cst approx
SAE 50 18cst approx

Centistokes (cst) is the measure of a fluid's resistance to flow (viscosity). It is calculated in terms of the time required for a standard quantity of fluid at a certain temperature to flow through a standard orifice. The higher the value, the more viscous the fluid.

As viscosity varies with temperature, the value is meaningless unless accompanied by the temperature at which it is measured. In the case of oils, viscosity is generally reported in centistokes (cst) and usually measured at 40degC and 100degC.

SAE 60 is in fact 24cst viscosity at 100degC!

This is 33% thicker than an sae 50, 70% thicker than an sae 40 and over 100% thicker than an sae 30!

So, what's the problem with this thickness?

Well, this is measured at 100degC and at lower temps (70-90degC) all oils are thicker than at 100degC so the problem is compounded to some extent.

The downsides of such a thick oil (when not specified) are as follows:

Additional friction, heat and wear.
A reduction of BHP at the wheels
Lower fuel consumption

The thicker the oil is the more friction and drag and the more power the engine needs to move it around the engine which inevitably translates to less at the wheels.

So, when do we spec a thicker oil?

Well, you will probably have seen us on occassions recommending a 10w-50 but only in these circumstances.

1. If the car is heavily modded and heat/oil temperatures are excessive.
2. If the car is used on track and heat/oil temperatures are excessive.
3. If it's required by the handbook.

Our criteria for this is based on oil temps as an sae 40 semi-synthetic can handle around 110degC for limited periods whereas a proper synthetic sae 40 can hande 120-130degC for prolonged periods due to its thermal stability.

Once you see more than say 120degC for prolonged periods an sae 50 is adviseable as it is 18cst at 100degC and still 11cst at 130degC! This is in fact the same as an sae 30 at 100degC.

More importantly at 90degC an sae 40 is 15cst, an sae 50 is 20cst and an sae 60 is 30cst!

In a worst case scenario with thick oils (when not required) is that you will experience air entrainment and cavitation inside the bearings at high RPM. Not clever stuff!

10w60 doesnt seem to be the way to go.
1980 VW Golf GTI Track Car
1995 Audi RS2
2003 Mini Cooper S (Written off - rear ended)
2005 Mini Cooper S
2006 Skoda Octavia vRS Combi
2009 Renault Megane 230 R26 (Written off - rear ended)
2013 Renault Megane RS265 Redbull RB8

SimonS2

Quote from: Golfboy666GTI on October 01, 2008, 12:18:41 PM
I think the Helix is fully synthetic?
At the moment I dont know what oil is in the car but the oil temp never get any higher than 65 degrees. I would think the engine would be better if it was running at a higher oil temp?

I dont have plans to put the car on the track, I have the GTI for that.

What oil temp does your S2 run at with just standard driving Simon?


Helix is a semi, and I think M1 is also not 100% synthetic. But if not on the track I don't think there is any need to worry.

Can't remember normal driving temp: the S2 is always sits on the same temp (will check what that is), and never gets hot on the road. On the track it's a totally different story: over 100 deg mostly from memory.

SimonS2

Motul V300 10W40 seemed to work for the S2

RS ZWEI

1980 VW Golf GTI Track Car
1995 Audi RS2
2003 Mini Cooper S (Written off - rear ended)
2005 Mini Cooper S
2006 Skoda Octavia vRS Combi
2009 Renault Megane 230 R26 (Written off - rear ended)
2013 Renault Megane RS265 Redbull RB8

RS ZWEI

Quote from: SimonS2 on October 01, 2008, 12:40:02 PM
Motul V300 10W40 seemed to work for the S2

Sounds like it could be a good oil to use.

Now to find me some.
1980 VW Golf GTI Track Car
1995 Audi RS2
2003 Mini Cooper S (Written off - rear ended)
2005 Mini Cooper S
2006 Skoda Octavia vRS Combi
2009 Renault Megane 230 R26 (Written off - rear ended)
2013 Renault Megane RS265 Redbull RB8

SimonS2

I think RobH was working on a deal. It's expensive.

RS ZWEI

Quote from: SimonS2 on October 01, 2008, 12:48:12 PM
I think RobH was working on a deal. It's expensive.

I think a cheaper price will be irrelevant once I get it from Auckland to Napier.
I dont mind expensive oils, just as long as they work as they should.


Also, Eurocity have just confirmed that the RS2, just like the S2 holds 4.5 litres of oil.
1980 VW Golf GTI Track Car
1995 Audi RS2
2003 Mini Cooper S (Written off - rear ended)
2005 Mini Cooper S
2006 Skoda Octavia vRS Combi
2009 Renault Megane 230 R26 (Written off - rear ended)
2013 Renault Megane RS265 Redbull RB8

Angle

The single most relevant element of all of this, is changing the oil and filter regularly. In the US, it's recommended every 3 months or 3,000 miles (5,000km). If your are simply commuting in your vehicle, and it's not being idled for long periods of time and you're not constantly driving the wheels off it, I'd change cheap oil more frequently.