S3 Price Check

Started by dizzyra, April 04, 2011, 11:05:58 AM

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dizzyra

Hi all, I'm thinking about jumping on the European wagon and grabbing myself a S3. I had been looking at MKIV gti and A3, but came across the s3 after having a look at some info about 1.8T engines and hearing that the mkiv were rated by most as the worst golf created.
I know absolutely nothing about Euros, and was wondering what kinda price i should be looking at for picking up an early model S3. say 2000 - 2002 between 140 and 120kms. And what kinda expense should be expected in maintenance in comparison to a jap car / parts availability etc.
Cheers in advance.

RobClubley

The Golf MKIV is basically the same as the A3/S3 mechanically :)
1985 ur quattro
1992 Ford Courier - the sensible daily

dizzyra

yea but i heard handling wise the standard GTI is like a brick without the pep found in other GTI's (power vs weight I guess), and i'd have to agree after giving a couple a test drive. Didn't like the feel of it at all, mind you this is coming from some high performance jap cars.
Yet to test drive an s3, but there seem to be some cheap ones on trademe!

HaNs

Quote from: RobClubley on April 04, 2011, 11:13:31 AM
The Golf MKIV is basically the same as the A3/S3 mechanically :)

Apart from trim spec/4wd/engine differences

RobClubley

Yeah okay S3 is more special. And engine internals etc are different to say a Golf GTI
Similar to a Seat Leon Cupra R :)
R32 Golf suspension?

What I was getting at is a lot of the cars are the same.
1985 ur quattro
1992 Ford Courier - the sensible daily

dizzyra

From what i understand and have read, the engine is basically the same 1.8T, maybe with k03 or k04 turbo running different boost. I've seen chipped s3 run up near 280bhp on stock eninge, is this possible with all 1.8T's (golf gti / a3 etc) or are there differences on various models ( c/r etc )?
And then as you say the 4wd, handling, trim etc different.
Back to my question, what should i expect to pay for a 1.8T S3, under 140km? And as you've been saying they are mechanically the same.
So are the extra mooloah for an s3 worth it over say an A3.

Trofeo

the S3 represents good value now. For around 15K you should get one thats done the kms you're looking at. Some are asking 20K but they won't sell. The S3 has lots of extras over a gti golf or a3 and you wont get 280hp out of them without new turbo, injectors, intercoolers etc. Parts for an S3 are more expensive as with any S audi. So look for a well maintained one. Haldex can be expensive to repair so get it thoroughly checked over before purchase.
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2018 Golf R-Line Tsi

HaNs

Quote from: dizzyra on April 04, 2011, 01:29:47 PM

Back to my question, what should i expect to pay for a 1.8T S3, under 140km? And as you've been saying they are mechanically the same.
So are the extra mooloah for an s3 worth it over say an A3.
Around 15k for a tidy one and you are doing well, they are worth the extra money.

You welcome to come drive mine, they are totally different than a A3/Golf Mk4.

dizzyra

15k, doesn't sound too bad considering these were up near 70k brand new!
HaNs, what's maintenance like?
I consider myself a backyard mechanic and like to mess with cars I've had previously. But as I have no experience with euros at all I wouldn't know where to begin, spare parts, aftermarket parts etc. Does someone on here have connections to parts etc? I'm part of a few other car forums for others I've owned and they've been really helpful with things like sourcing parts, upgrades etc.
I'd think since s3's kinda rare compared to japs I've had that parts etc would be a real hassle to source, and servicing would be more expensive.
I'll definitely have someone with more knowledge of these cars look over it before i buy, any suggestions?

dizzyra

Quote from: Trofeo on April 04, 2011, 01:38:49 PM
The S3 has lots of extras over a gti golf or a3 and you wont get 280hp out of them without new turbo, injectors, intercoolers etc.
Do you mean those numbers are unrealistic on a stock S3 or the stock GTI golf?

Quote from: Trofeo on April 04, 2011, 01:38:49 PM
Parts for an S3 are more expensive as with any S audi. So look for a well maintained one. Haldex can be expensive to repair so get it thoroughly checked over before purchase.
How expensive? How about for example a S3 cambelt/waterpump replacement compared to a jap and A3? How about costs for the Haldex system?

It's funny looking at how I ended up here, I was just after a cheap a to b car because of fuel prices. That got me to the polo, which got me to the golf, which got me to the 1.8T engine, which has me really wanting an s3 now!

RobClubley

The earlier S3 was 180BHP, the later ones 225, correct?

If I recall the 180 had  the K03S turbo, same as mine, which is good for about 240bhp max with a lot of other supporting mods.

The later 225 ones had the K04, different manifold, downpipe and other supporting mods and can make something like 260+ with other mods and a remap?

This is all from memory so I might be off on the K04 figures.
1985 ur quattro
1992 Ford Courier - the sensible daily

RobClubley

My cambelt and waterpump (AUQ 1.8t 180bhp engine so very similar) ended up costing about $1300
1985 ur quattro
1992 Ford Courier - the sensible daily

HaNs

Quote from: RobClubley on April 04, 2011, 02:20:31 PM
My cambelt and waterpump (AUQ 1.8t 180bhp engine so very similar) ended up costing about $1300
Uses the same kit as a mk4, quoted around $450 + gst for a full kit  ;)

RobClubley

Yep I paid about that - plus a full day's labour as I'm too scared to do a cambelt myself.
1985 ur quattro
1992 Ford Courier - the sensible daily

Turbo

remap alone should get you 260+ on stock KO4s.

there was a member on here with a 290hp odd S3 that troubled a 911 tt around taupo if i recall.

2000 S4, MTM stage 1, Oettinger RE's, Bilstein Sports, Vogtland springs, H&R Swaybars, DBA 4000 rotors, EBC Yellow stuff pads, 710N DV's, F1 tints, RS4 clutch

RobClubley

Quote from: Turbo on April 04, 2011, 02:32:19 PM
remap alone should get you 260+ on stock KO4s.

there was a member on here with a 290hp odd S3 that troubled a 911 tt around taupo if i recall.

Nice :) IIRC the 225 S3 had better engine internals than the 180 for more tuning potential.
1985 ur quattro
1992 Ford Courier - the sensible daily

dizzyra

Quote from: HaNs on April 04, 2011, 02:27:28 PM
Uses the same kit as a mk4, quoted around $450 + gst for a full kit  ;)
The s3 uses the same kit as mk4? That sounds good since there's alot more of those around! You might be the person to talk to about parts! Where did you get your service done or did you do the belt yourself?

Quote from: Turbo on April 04, 2011, 02:32:19 PM
remap alone should get you 260+ on stock KO4s.
there was a member on here with a 290hp odd S3 that troubled a 911 tt around taupo if i recall.
That's on stock? That sounds like too much of a jump up if it is. Do they run from factory well under what they can achieve? Sounds like a great car to tinker with

Quote from: RobClubley on April 04, 2011, 02:35:04 PM
Nice :) IIRC the 225 S3 had better engine internals than the 180 for more tuning potential.
So what year should I be looking at for the 225 S3?

RobClubley

I was wrong it was 210BHP originally. From the Wiki:

The first generation S3 is built on the same A platform of the Audi A3, Volkswagen Golf Mk4, Audi TT, SEAT Le?n and ?koda Octavia.

The straight-4 20v 1.8 L turbocharged petrol engine comes in two versions of power output: 210 PS (154 kW; 207 hp) and 225 PS (165 kW; 222 hp). Early models (1999?2001) had 210 PS (154 kW; 207 hp) which is said to be a de-tuned Audi TT engine, and was said to be reduced to lessen brand competition with the more powerful TT. Later models (2001?2003) had variable valve timing and 225 PS (165 kW; 222 hp). The engine provides a maximum 280 N?m (210 ft?lbf) of torque, most of which is available from 2200 through to 5500 rpm. This is the first time a small four-cylinder engine has been used in an Audi S-series car.

Although dubbed "quattro", the S3 uses a different "on-demand" four-wheel drive system[11]. The Haldex Traction coupling adjusts the bias of torque distribution from the front to rear axle as grip requirements change - most of the time it operates as a front-wheel drive.

The S3 was sold in the United Kingdom, Europe, Mexico, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand, but was not officially marketed in the United States.

The S3 was facelifted in 2000, where it was given one-piece headlights/indicator units, different front wings, rear lights clusters, and some minor upgrades to interior trim. There had been minor changes to the design previous to this, including digital clock on the dash.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_S3#S3_.28Typ_8L.2C_1999-2003.29
1985 ur quattro
1992 Ford Courier - the sensible daily

Trofeo

Quote from: RobClubley on April 04, 2011, 02:19:21 PM
The earlier S3 was 180BHP, the later ones 225, correct?

If I recall the 180 had  the K03S turbo, same as mine, which is good for about 240bhp max with a lot of other supporting mods.

The later 225 ones had the K04, different manifold, downpipe and other supporting mods and can make something like 260+ with other mods and a remap?

This is all from memory so I might be off on the K04 figures.
nope both early and late S3 had the same KO4. Was only an ecu change that made the early 210hp go to 225hp.
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2018 Golf R-Line Tsi

Trofeo

Quote from: dizzyra on April 04, 2011, 02:12:56 PM
Do you mean those numbers are unrealistic on a stock S3 or the stock GTI golf?
on a gti golf the turbo will max out around 220hp. S3 will go to 290 with exhaust and chip alone.
2015 Amarok 4WD auto
2018 Golf R-Line Tsi