VW Touareg vs Merc ML

[106_racecar]

What are your thoughts on Touareg R5/VR6 3.2 vs a Merc 270cdi?

I understand the later is not a VAG, and had a poor reputation until about 2002 but I was quite with a 2005 diesel Merc 270 that we took out the other day.

The choice needs to be used for commuting and towing an 1800kg boat from time to time too.

[RS4]

Personally the R5, with upgraded software, followed by the ML, then the 3.2 petrol.
Diesel for towing for sure, and you can make them pretty good all round vehicles.

[beeker]

Is that the new shape ML? If so, definitely consider it.

Had a friend consider the R5, and once he test drove one he couldn't bear the lack of power and purchased a 3.2 petrol.

Either would smash towing a 1800kg boat i suspect (braked i assume).

Take both for a drive (ideally back to back) and make your own mind up.

[106_racecar]

unfortunately the only ones locally to drive are the Mercedes ML 270CD (2005 and old shape) and the Touareg 3.2 V6.

The 04 Touareg has 57000kms and the ML has 87000kms is the last of the old shape but a special edition and apparently the probs were ironed out from 03, so should be reliable.

The Merc 270 pulled like a train and apparently can tow well according to a guy I know that has one and a 1600kg boat. The Touareg has pretty low kms but I hear that 2004 had all sorts of problems, but then both have that stigma ... maybe the Merc more because of the early ones built in the US.  The 270cdi is built in Austria apparently.

[mark2 golf]

I have worked on a lot of 270 cdi and they are nothing but problems. stay away from the early ml's. the petrol's are better but still heaps of electrical problems.
I don't no any thing about the vw so can comment.

[106_racecar]

I have worked on a lot of 270 cdi and they are nothing but problems. stay away from the early ml's. the petrol's are better but still heaps of electrical problems.
I don't no any thing about the vw so can comment.

Yeah, I gather that the early ones were unreliable.  In your opinion is the ML reliable after 02/03, this is an 05?  What kind of electrical problems did you encounter? Anything common and to look for? 

[beeker]

unfortunately the only ones locally to drive are the Mercedes ML 270CD (2005 and old shape) and the Touareg 3.2 V6.

The 04 Touareg has 57000kms and the ML has 87000kms is the last of the old shape but a special edition and apparently the probs were ironed out from 03, so should be reliable.

The Merc 270 pulled like a train and apparently can tow well according to a guy I know that has one and a 1600kg boat. The Touareg has pretty low kms but I hear that 2004 had all sorts of problems, but then both have that stigma ... maybe the Merc more because of the early ones built in the US.  The 270cdi is built in Austria apparently.

Flag the old merc then, and get the treg

[106_racecar]

Flag the old merc then, and get the treg

The Treg was under offer and has gone ... it only lasted 2 days!  So currently on offer leaves me with the ML270 which is about 5k too expensive, or the Treg in Chch.

Merc looks like this but silver and 87000kms: http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/mercedesbenz/auction-381247001.htm

What do you think of this one: http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/volkswagen/touareg/auction-379888790.htm

The kms are getting up and apparently they need new injectors at 150000kms, but this has been done already according to the dealer. 

[106_racecar]

Well, there was one more 2nd hand Touareg in Wellington at GT Volkswagen so I went to take it for a spin, only to see it was just coming back from a test drive.  That person bought it so I will have to wait for another, buy from out of town or go for the ML.

Frankly after looking over the ML and Touareg on the same yard the ML looks a bit dated although it does have an awesome stereo and off course the very good and economical 270TD motor!

Interestingly the sales guy said the same thing as beeker about the R5 vs the VR6 motor that it was quite slow and that the VR6 would be a much better day to day proposition.

[RS4]

Just tune the R5 motor,
Take it to around 210-215 bhp and 480-490 Nm, whats not to like then?

[106_racecar]

Have you remapped a few of the R5's?  What was the reaction/comments?

[beeker]

Watch out for the facelift treg R5 (brown from memory) on TM. It came via turners as a repo. I was told that it had missed its last ~40kms of servicing!

[RS4]

We actually did another R5 the other day for a dealer in CHCH.
Makes a huge difference, and really brings it to where it should be. Definately underpowered at 175bhp etc.

[mark2 golf]

As far as I'm aware the 163 ml's did not change much. The injectors themselves are not the problem. it is  the design of the head and how they are fitted. with a stupid 6mm bolt. and a copper washer to seal them. it is just a design cock up every engineer i have talked to has said that will never work properly what were they thinking. they are a mission to fix if you can. we have one that comes in that i have had number 5 injector out 5 times in the last 4 years and its at the stage where it needs a new head. when they leak the compression gases come up the side and eat away at the head and injection.
As for electrical issues. the fuel pressure sensors and afm are very problematic. They have a crap can bus system witch can have issues. they are very heavy on brakes. will destroy front rotors in a couple of years. ball joints and tie rod ends don't last long and are expensive.

like i say i don't no the vw it might be just as bad but i worked for a merc dealer for 4 years and still have a few customers with them and from what i have seen i wouldn't get one.

[106_racecar]

Watch out for the facelift treg R5 (brown from memory) on TM. It came via turners as a repo. I was told that it had missed its last ~40kms of servicing!

 That Treg has been for sale for months, almost as long as the cheap R5 that is starting bids at $17500.

[106_racecar]

As far as I'm aware the 163 ml's did not change much. The injectors themselves are not the problem. it is  the design of the head and how they are fitted. with a stupid 6mm bolt. and a copper washer to seal them. it is just a design cock up every engineer i have talked to has said that will never work properly what were they thinking. they are a mission to fix if you can. we have one that comes in that i have had number 5 injector out 5 times in the last 4 years and its at the stage where it needs a new head. when they leak the compression gases come up the side and eat away at the head and injection.
As for electrical issues. the fuel pressure sensors and afm are very problematic. They have a crap can bus system witch can have issues. they are very heavy on brakes. will destroy front rotors in a couple of years. ball joints and tie rod ends don't last long and are expensive.

like i say i don't no the vw it might be just as bad but i worked for a merc dealer for 4 years and still have a few customers with them and from what i have seen i wouldn't get one.

That sounds like good advice, I presume that includes the later ML270's and a nz new 2005 wouldn't be immune to these issues?

Its looking like i'll end up in a petrol V6 T'reg ... if I can find a good one!

[mark2 golf]

yea all the 163 ml i have seen all run the 5 clyinder engine.

[106_racecar]

Flag the old merc then, and get the treg

Still looking at both Merc and VW, and the 04 T'reg with almost 60000 kms has come up again for low 30's which seems like a reasonable deal.

Not sure about the antisocial image with SUV's but it is sure to be able to tow well!

[beeker]

Our 3.0Tdi tows like a dream.

[106_racecar]

I took the 3.2 V6 T'reg out and it goes pretty well for a big tank of a thing.

You seem to sit lower in the Merc ML270 and while I like the ML, I have heard too many negative things and I think that the T'reg will be a more reliable proposition long term.  I would also rather have the TDI V6 as it would have the go and the tow, but they are running close to twice the price!!