GTI, Edition 30 or R32?

Started by 106_racecar, December 14, 2012, 09:37:39 PM

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M

Quote from: xring on December 16, 2012, 05:45:00 PM
Always makes me laugh when someone puts up a query on here about a car. There is always someone who makes the comment that one car is quicker than another etc, or that one car handles better than another. When comparing the MkV GTI and MkV R32, it is totally irrelevant. They are so close in performance that the difference will never be noticed on the road. Both cars will get to 100kph in 6.5 - 7 secs if caned. Both cars will comfortably exceed 140kph, at which point you are in loss of license territory.

The only time it would even remotely be an issue is if you were racing on a track. And even then the driver would make the difference. It is entirely up to the individuals preference which one of these cars one should go for. I have had two MkV GTI's, and I have had several VW V6's. The one BIG difference is the sound. In my opinion (notice, I say MY opinion), the sound of the V6 is what makes the difference. And that sound can be enjoyed while still driving at the legal speed limit.

My point wasn't so much that an ED30 is faster(although with a simple remap it will EAT an R32) it is the all round package. I am a huge VR6 fan but the Mk5 R32 doesn't deliver anything other than sound. It is too heavy with the big block and 4WD and really dulls the Mk5 chassis. The VR6 is also worse on fuel to boot.

The Mk4 R32 was good as the 1.8T GTi it was up against was crap, but VW stepped the game up hugely with the Mk5 GTi and made the R32 less of an "upgrade" other than noise and bragging rights.

If you are planning 400+bhp then an R32 and 4wd makes sense, otherwise the ED30 or GTi is much better all round. In my opinion.
Too much power is almost enough.

____________________________________________

xring

I am not saying that an R32 is better than a GTI. I am saying that in the real world, any of the cars mentioned (GTI, Ed 30, R32) are very good cars. I would be very happy with any of them. My point is that some people seem to justify the car they own by the fact that  it is fractionally faster than another car. And that is absolute bullcrap in a road car.

The MkV GTI is an extremely good car and is better in some areas than the MkV R32. However in some areas the R32 is a the better car. Horses for courses.

When I put posts on here asking about a particular car, I am not interested in how fast it is. What I am interested in is if it has any known problems or issues. And if I am asking about a specific car, I want to know if anyone has any information about that particular car and how it has been looked after. The fact that it is 0.1 sec faster to 100k's than another car doesn't mean anything.

I am not having a go at anyone in particular. I am just saying that there are far more important things for a road car, than which one is the fastest.
Polo GTI 2013
Bora MkIV V6 4motion - gone
Golf MkIV R32 - gone
Golf MkV GTI DSG - gone
Golf MkIV V6 4motion - gone
Golf MkIV V5 manual - gone
Golf MkV GTI manual- gone
Golf MkIV V5 - gone
Golf MkIII GLI - gone

106_racecar

All good feedback, thanks. I prefer NZ New and a 5 door TBH as its a bit more practical and on practicality, the R32 has a smaller boot due to the AWD drive train and some have remarked in other threads that the boot is a bit small.

That said I reckon the R32 sounds fantastic, where as the 2.0T engine sounds a bit dull so I am going to take a friends R32 DSG out again at some stage as its been a while since I drove both the GTI and R32.  Last time I took out the two cars the R32 seemed pretty heavy and substantial where as the GTI a bit easier to push around ... I guess its time to try them both again. One problem tho is that most seem to be DSG and manuals are that bit rarer - I prefer them for involvement though on this forum, DSG fans rate the DSG and manual owners think that a manual g'box is the way to go.

2007 Golf GTI

slowmo

Just recently bought a mk5 GTI DSG myself, still getting used to how DSG works and the dynamics of the car in general. In saying that had an absolute blast driving up and down the rimutakas this weekend. :D
Current: 2004 MK4 R32 3-door NZ New DBP

Past: 2010 MK6 GTI / 2013 Nissan Leaf LOL / 2007 B7 RS4 / 2006 MK5 R32 / 2005 MK5 GTI / 1998 MK4 GTI / 1997 B5 A4 MTM

xring

Have had two MkV GTI's. One was manual and one was DSG. DSG does have a distinct advantage if a lot of your driving is in heavy traffic ie commuting in Auckland/Wellington. With the DSG, I commuted from Porirua to Petone and back every day. Even then I used it in manual mode virtually all the time.
Polo GTI 2013
Bora MkIV V6 4motion - gone
Golf MkIV R32 - gone
Golf MkV GTI DSG - gone
Golf MkIV V6 4motion - gone
Golf MkIV V5 manual - gone
Golf MkV GTI manual- gone
Golf MkIV V5 - gone
Golf MkIII GLI - gone

Fizz

With an aftermarket downpipe or changing the rear muffler the mkv gti sounds pretty cool. Pops and farts alot more than the mk4 did. Obviously cant compare it to the sound of a v6 with a nice free flowing system

schattenblau

Quote from: slowmo on December 16, 2012, 10:30:15 PM
Just recently bought a mk5 GTI DSG myself, still getting used to how DSG works and the dynamics of the car in general. In saying that had an absolute blast driving up and down the rimutakas this weekend. :D

Can't think of a better road to suss out DSG...

;D

106_racecar

Quote from: schattenblau on December 17, 2012, 12:07:14 AM
Can't think of a better road to suss out DSG...

;D
I totally agree on the Rimutaka Hill and its a great piece of road to test a few things out. My old S3 was quick over that road as it had a huge amount of torque that you could use to pull you along.  I'd be interested in comments around relative comparisons of handling between the R32 and GTI along similar roads and I guess that the rapid gear changes of DSG would be interesting to try there too!
2007 Golf GTI

106_racecar

Quote from: xring on December 16, 2012, 10:49:29 PM
Have had two MkV GTI's. One was manual and one was DSG. DSG does have a distinct advantage if a lot of your driving is in heavy traffic ie commuting in Auckland/Wellington. With the DSG, I commuted from Porirua to Petone and back every day. Even then I used it in manual mode virtually all the time.
Which did you prefer? I tend to use my auto shift in my Subaru 3.0 and BMW X5 in manual mode all the time to down shift for roundabouts and then pull away quicker or on roads like the Rimutaka's. I guess that's the compromise of auto that means its better in Wellington traffic when its heavy but I still feel disconnected and that the transmission is providing a level of insulation and not direct like a manual.
2007 Golf GTI

GLIDN

Well for the torque component, both have the Same amount in stock.
Tuned GTI has more torque, so you tend to pull away or accelerate in 6th with DSG rather easily.
Audi A4 DTM - K04 NZ New | All bolt-ons | Carbon Clean done
2012 MK6R Golf |Stage 3+ | Stage 4 DSG | Tuned & Built by HSP Tuning

slowmo

creepdontsleep (Tim) has a DSG R32.. in fact heard him making some glorious noise as he pulled out of the lights at Jervois Quay this morning.  8)

Also Arr32 (Tony) has a manual R32 so would be good to hear the comparisons between the two.
Current: 2004 MK4 R32 3-door NZ New DBP

Past: 2010 MK6 GTI / 2013 Nissan Leaf LOL / 2007 B7 RS4 / 2006 MK5 R32 / 2005 MK5 GTI / 1998 MK4 GTI / 1997 B5 A4 MTM

xring

I purchased my first MkV GTI from the very first shipment into NZ. I had previously owned a MkIV V5 Tipo and was adamant that I was not having another automatic. Basically, the tipo was horrible. Even in manual mode, it changed gear when it wanted. So I bought a manual GTI.

My second GTI was leased for me as a company vehicle. I was given the choice of a 4 speed auto Mazda SP23, or a DSG Golf GTI. Not really a hard decision. After my tipo experiences, I was very sceptical of the DSG. However I very quickly became a convert. Having said that, as I have stated previously, I almost always drove the DSG in manual mode, using the paddles. No it is not a manual in that there is no clutch to push and no lever to move around. But then, no chance of stalling in stop start traffic either. And 2-3 tapes on the paddle and one is in 3rd or 4th for that brief overtaking opportunity.

Another advantage, although not an issue for me, is that so many people are getting their license in an auto and are therefore not allowed to drive a manual. DSG is the perfect solution. Can be used in auto mode for the auto only driver, but manual mode is still an option for those that prefer it.

If I was in the market for another GTI/R32, I would find it very hard to go past the DSG. Having said that, I am in my mid 50's, so maybe I am getting old.

As for heavy R32 versus lighter (nimble) GTI. I currently drive a Bora V6 4Motion which would probably come under the heavy rather than nimble classification. The thing feels planted on the road, regardless of the conditions. I recently drove a new Polo GTI (1400cc DSG) which was much lighter and more nimble. A very nice car, but it felt as if it was lacking in grip. One corner in particular, it felt as if it was going to slide. Straight after I drove the Polo, I drove my Bora through the same corner at higher speed. The Bora just went round the corner and felt as solid as a rock.......not even remotely twitchy.

Polo GTI 2013
Bora MkIV V6 4motion - gone
Golf MkIV R32 - gone
Golf MkV GTI DSG - gone
Golf MkIV V6 4motion - gone
Golf MkIV V5 manual - gone
Golf MkV GTI manual- gone
Golf MkIV V5 - gone
Golf MkIII GLI - gone

schattenblau

Quote from: 106_racecar on December 17, 2012, 01:06:02 AM
I totally agree on the Rimutaka Hill and its a great piece of road to test a few things out. My old S3 was quick over that road as it had a huge amount of torque that you could use to pull you along.  I'd be interested in comments around relative comparisons of handling between the R32 and GTI along similar roads and I guess that the rapid gear changes of DSG would be interesting to try there too!

One of my favourite pieces of road for testing cars had (it's since been sanitised :( ) a good combination of bumpy, uphill corners and a tight switchbacks.

Here a GTI DSG showed good turn-in, swallowing the bumps and staying on course.

A R32 DSG had admirable speed up the hill but turn-in was slower, with less body control and inferior damping, the bumps had the tyres hitting the guards.

By comparison a Focus RS had sharp turn-in but with noticeable torque steer.

The Toyota GT86 didn't have enough power to do justice to this road, body control was a bit lax too.

Best was a Megane RS265, loads of power, sharp steering, tightly hunkered down.

slowmo

I prefer the featherston to upper hutt way for good fun.  ;D
Current: 2004 MK4 R32 3-door NZ New DBP

Past: 2010 MK6 GTI / 2013 Nissan Leaf LOL / 2007 B7 RS4 / 2006 MK5 R32 / 2005 MK5 GTI / 1998 MK4 GTI / 1997 B5 A4 MTM

alexh

Quote from: Fizz on December 16, 2012, 11:30:04 PM
With an aftermarket downpipe or changing the rear muffler the mkv gti sounds pretty cool. Pops and farts alot more than the mk4 did. Obviously cant compare it to the sound of a v6 with a nice free flowing system

agree - they sound diiiiiiirty.
- 2013 - ML63 AMG - White
- 2014 - Golf R - White   
- 2008 - S63 AMG - Black
- 2002 - E46 M3 - Silver

madmax100

Hi, just read this thread, personally i think both have there positives I would buy both then you have it covered. If you have a family it would have to be the R32 as they are 5 dr, if you a couple, single, young, mid life, then go the ED30, if you smoke drink coffee and use your cell phone go DSG with a ECU upgrade to at least 300hp, plenty of traction with good tires. If you want a real car that ever time you drive it lights you up get a manual ED30 (one of 9 in the country) they are not as quick as the DSG but alot more fun, get one and upgrade to 390hp and you have one cool car. I had a black DSG with the bits and had the blue fin upgrade its still running around with 100k's on now with no problems with the DSG. That was driven too around Hampton and pukie, don't like doing the launches thou that will eventually stuff them.
I have now the only white manual 3 dr in the country with all the bits, roof, lights, Mk6 stereo, upgraded with APR intercooler, high flow pump, air box, billsteins, H&R springs, fuel pump cam upgrade, latest APR upgrade software to approx 390hp. Yes traction can be tricky, torque is great and that's what its all about for me, having that overtaking with easy and alot quicker than cars way above its pedigree.
The sound at 5000rpm is toxic just love putting the windows open on a lovely day and hearing the engine purrrr, overall being serious i would go ed30 manual but like hens teeth now, they are lighter than the R32 buy approx 200kg, you don't need the 4 wheel drive unless you like skiing or want to put more power down quickly.
My car now has done 47k same brake pads, just changed the tyres.....wow good some of my traction back :).  I just can't think what else for the money i would drive, maybe a RA sti but then again its not a golf.
If you unsure and want to come for a spin in my golf let me know, then go drive a R32 I think you may agree.

Good luck anyway with what you decided and happy Christmas to all the Vask viewers......Carpe Diem

2007 Golf GTI Edition 30, APR stage 2 395bhp, 3 door, white, manual
2007 Ford Mustang manual GT CS Roush
2007 Audi S8 V10 500hp
2008 Volvo C70 summer crusier
2012 VW Jetta 2.0 Tdi

106_racecar

Quote from: schattenblau on December 17, 2012, 03:15:40 PM
One of my favourite pieces of road for testing cars had (it's since been sanitised :( ) a good combination of bumpy, uphill corners and a tight switchbacks.

Here a GTI DSG showed good turn-in, swallowing the bumps and staying on course.

A R32 DSG had admirable speed up the hill but turn-in was slower, with less body control and inferior damping, the bumps had the tyres hitting the guards.

By comparison a Focus RS had sharp turn-in but with noticeable torque steer.

The Toyota GT86 didn't have enough power to do justice to this road, body control was a bit lax too.

Best was a Megane RS265, loads of power, sharp steering, tightly hunkered down.
Did you try the ED30 on that road too?  From what madmax has said the ED30 sounds good too and frankly the sound was the main appeal of the R32 and the reduced boot space of the R32 could be an issue for me.
2007 Golf GTI

GLIDN

Quote from: 106_racecar on December 19, 2012, 10:07:53 PM
Did you try the ED30 on that road too?  From what madmax has said the ED30 sounds good too and frankly the sound was the main appeal of the R32 and the reduced boot space of the R32 could be an issue for me.

The TDI also has same boot space as R32 due to full size spare. tbh, just drive them all. Then pick which ever one you enjoy the most and fit's what you need.
Audi A4 DTM - K04 NZ New | All bolt-ons | Carbon Clean done
2012 MK6R Golf |Stage 3+ | Stage 4 DSG | Tuned & Built by HSP Tuning

David

+1 for the edition 30, don't be put off by the 3 door thing if you have a 2nd car for family stuff. Drive all three and see what you like/suits you best. I was hesitant about the 3 door but that changed once I drove it. Plenty of fun even without any mods, DSG is good if you commute and no traction probs with good tyres

07 VW Golf GTI Edition 30
97 Subaru WRX RA (sold)

schattenblau

Quote from: 106_racecar on December 19, 2012, 10:07:53 PM
Did you try the ED30 on that road too?  From what madmax has said the ED30 sounds good too and frankly the sound was the main appeal of the R32 and the reduced boot space of the R32 could be an issue for me.

Hi,

Never got the chance to try an Ed30 on that route, which has now been made "safer".

:-\