Can you make a GTI go like a standard Edition 30

Started by 106_racecar, August 27, 2013, 07:58:30 AM

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106_racecar

I drove both a GTI and ED30 last week.  The Edition 30 was much more fun and responsive than the standard GTI so I was keen to get an Edition 30 but they are pretty hard to find.

I know that the base engine of the Ed30 is based on the S3 motor but can you make the GTI perform simarly to an Ed 30? Chipping would help, but is more required or are you better off going to a mk6 which has a but more base power and the newer TSI engine?
2007 Golf GTI

RS

Bigger turbo and injectors and a tune. Not cheap.

Personally I would hold out for an Edition 30, they are a nice limited run car and IMHO the best Mk5 built.


schattenblau

^ditto
or a pirelli edition - same drivetrain, different cosmetics.

slowmo

what's wrong with that ED30 that's for sale here? seems like a good price based on km's. There was a cheaper one a while back sub-20k but had 130kms iirc.
Current: 2004 MK4 R32 3-door NZ New DBP

Past: 2010 MK6 GTI / 2013 Nissan Leaf LOL / 2007 B7 RS4 / 2006 MK5 R32 / 2005 MK5 GTI / 1998 MK4 GTI / 1997 B5 A4 MTM

HaNs

Upgrade to the K04 turbo, fueling and chip and you are at ED30 power(well chipped ED30 power)

A stage 1 Mk5 GTI will have more power than the ED30 but different power delivery due to different hardware


Maybe go drive a chipped Mk5 GTI and see if it floats your boat?

GLIDN

#5
You will need K04 turbo with the full diverter valve relocation kit, injectors, updated High Pressure Fuel Pump and new throttle body pipe

You will always be 50hp down thou.

To be honest, tuning your GTI, already makes for a great car. Stage 2+ GTI, makes for a brilliant car.
Smooth power band almost to 6500rpm as appose to dying off at 5300rpm in stock or stage 1/2 form.
Off the line the GTI will almost always win. Only on open roads, motorways or race tracks, would the ED30/Pirelli most likely win.
Audi A4 DTM - K04 NZ New | All bolt-ons | Carbon Clean done
2012 MK6R Golf |Stage 3+ | Stage 4 DSG | Tuned & Built by HSP Tuning

GLIDN

Quote from: HaNs on August 27, 2013, 09:48:07 AM
Upgrade to the K04 turbo, fueling and chip and you are at ED30 power(well chipped ED30 power)

A stage 1 Mk5 GTI will have more power than the ED30 but different power delivery due to different hardware


Maybe go drive a chipped Mk5 GTI and see if it floats your boat?

Not entirely true I'm afraid.
Stage 2+ ED30/Pirelli - 360-390HP
Gti K04 Stage 2+       - 320-330HP at most
Audi A4 DTM - K04 NZ New | All bolt-ons | Carbon Clean done
2012 MK6R Golf |Stage 3+ | Stage 4 DSG | Tuned & Built by HSP Tuning

schattenblau

Quote from: HaNs on August 27, 2013, 09:48:07 AM
A stage 1 Mk5 GTI will have more power than the ED30 but different power delivery due to different hardware


Maybe go drive a chipped Mk5 GTI and see if it floats your boat?

I can attest to that !

Plus you get the practicality of four doors.

;D

106_racecar

Quote from: HaNs on August 27, 2013, 09:48:07 AM
Upgrade to the K04 turbo, fueling and chip and you are at ED30 power(well chipped ED30 power)

A stage 1 Mk5 GTI will have more power than the ED30 but different power delivery due to different hardware


Maybe go drive a chipped Mk5 GTI and see if it floats your boat?
Good call on trying a chipped Mk5 GTI, does anyone have one of these in Wellington? A K04 sounds like too much complexity and I prefer NZ NZ New and fairly standard.  Which remap company did you use schattenblau and have you compared your car with an ED30? 

I drove and tried to buy the ED30 that was listed on here last week but someone else got the first option  :-[.

2007 Golf GTI

slowmo

In Wellington, prg-gti has got a chipped nz-new GTI. Not sure who else though..
Current: 2004 MK4 R32 3-door NZ New DBP

Past: 2010 MK6 GTI / 2013 Nissan Leaf LOL / 2007 B7 RS4 / 2006 MK5 R32 / 2005 MK5 GTI / 1998 MK4 GTI / 1997 B5 A4 MTM

22

APR stage 1 = 188kw an increase of 40kw or more.. smooth across the board.  I've read of heaps of reviews and those who have stage 1 say it's how the GTi should have left the factory.

The ED30 stock is around what? 169kw? Better hardware etc.. chip this and you're up there. 

The difference between the two models would be what 4-6k? Might be best to hold out for a ED30 or just chip a GTi.

I'm happy with mine stock - but will be heading down APR at some stage.  Either that or i'll be looking at  V9/10 STi FML.




schattenblau

Quote from: 106_racecar on August 27, 2013, 12:27:35 PM
Good call on trying a chipped Mk5 GTI, does anyone have one of these in Wellington? A K04 sounds like too much complexity and I prefer NZ NZ New and fairly standard.  Which remap company did you use schattenblau and have you compared your car with an ED30? 

I drove and tried to buy the ED30 that was listed on here last week but someone else got the first option  :-[.

My Mk5 has a stage 1 NZ Performance Tuning map.

Have driven an ED30.

The remap is just as fast but feels different - more muscular low down, not quite as rev happy as an ED30 but smoother, less peaky.

David

What's your budget for an ED30? Mine has only done 46kms ;)
07 VW Golf GTI Edition 30
97 Subaru WRX RA (sold)

RS

Quote from: schattenblau on August 28, 2013, 05:00:08 PM
My Mk5 has a stage 1 NZ Performance Tuning map.

Have driven an ED30.

The remap is just as fast but feels different - more muscular low down, not quite as rev happy as an ED30 but smoother, less peaky.

Its hard to explain without experiencing isn't it. I have only been in one GTI-30 and it was mapped, four up and it felt like it had  over 200kw, was impressive.

I have the same going from my Gen II RS to my Gen III RS that has the bigger turbo, the Gen II is faster but the boost doesn't feel as meaty  ???


personally I am a big fan of the  Gen 30 simply because its a bit special and has the go to match, would rather a factory fast car than a hacked lesser car.

schattenblau

Agree with that last sentiment

;)

For the OP:

Vask member alexh also has an ED30 for sale;

2008 manual, NZPT stage 2 and driven carefully...

;D

http://www.vask.org.nz/index.php/topic,32591.0.html


106_racecar

Quote from: schattenblau on August 28, 2013, 05:00:08 PM
My Mk5 has a stage 1 NZ Performance Tuning map.

Have driven an ED30.

The remap is just as fast but feels different - more muscular low down, not quite as rev happy as an ED30 but smoother, less peaky.
Thats pretty much the characteristics that I thought; smaller turbo boosting more low down, probably tapering off by 5500rpm and the bigger turbo taking time to spool up but then going to 6500 with bigger boost possible.  In principal I prefer standard or a mild tune as I wouldn't want the mechatronic unit to be damaged prematurely as they sound expensive to replace/repair. 
2007 Golf GTI

JPK

#16
I wouldn't worry about a DSG box failing because of a bit of extra hp/torque. Plenty of examples running well over 400bhp with no problem.

In terms of power handling they are bulletproof up to a point. Over 430bhp or so you do need a DSG remap and upgraded clutch packs though.

Just get the odd bad egg amongst the first generation (like anything). The rest won't have been serviced properly or would have been overheated regularly (feathering throttle in reverse up steep driveways etc). When they do fail people just make a lot of noise about it due to the price of repair - though that has come down a lot.

The 2nd gen dry clutch 7 speed have the higher rate of failure (the one with the current recall).

A3 8P Sportback 2.0T DSG
- Progress Diary -

106_racecar

Quote from: GLIDN on August 27, 2013, 09:49:25 AM
You will need K04 turbo with the full diverter valve relocation kit, injectors, updated High Pressure Fuel Pump and new throttle body pipe

You will always be 50hp down thou.

To be honest, tuning your GTI, already makes for a great car. Stage 2+ GTI, makes for a brilliant car.
Smooth power band almost to 6500rpm as appose to dying off at 5300rpm in stock or stage 1/2 form.
Off the line the GTI will almost always win. Only on open roads, motorways or race tracks, would the ED30/Pirelli most likely win.
A GTI could be a good way to go as you get the 5 doors although I have driven both a MK5 GTI and a Mk6 GTI recently and found the MK5 a bit sluggish, but quite impressed with the standard Mk6 though ... maybe the MK5 was a bit tired as I can't believe that the extra 10hp makes that much difference with the Mk6?
I thought both GTI's had floaty suspension compared to the ED30 and I see from one of your earlier posts that the ED30 has lower suspension by 15mm, can this be bought after market?
2007 Golf GTI

Fizz

Pretty sure its been debunked that the euro GTI's have the same suspension as ED30. I have a set of ED30/GTI springs if you want it

GLIDN

Quote from: 106_racecar on September 03, 2013, 09:30:41 PM
A GTI could be a good way to go as you get the 5 doors although I have driven both a MK5 GTI and a Mk6 GTI recently and found the MK5 a bit sluggish, but quite impressed with the standard Mk6 though ... maybe the MK5 was a bit tired as I can't believe that the extra 10hp makes that much difference with the Mk6?
I thought both GTI's had floaty suspension compared to the ED30 and I see from one of your earlier posts that the ED30 has lower suspension by 15mm, can this be bought after market?

If there was that much of a difference between the 2, I can assure you the MK5's diverter valve is blown.
Don't believe the hype about the new GFB diverter valve. They already had to recall a complete run of them for being problematic. It will also always operate slower than the plastic VW valves due to weight. Not really noticed on manual cars. But on DSG every millisecond counts during gear changes for the DV operation.
More weight will always mean slower.

The MK6 GTI, is stronger feeling as it has more torque than MK5. Also simply a exhaust, intake and tune would take you to 270-280HP on the mk6

Vs

MK5 Gti, intake, fuel pump, exhaust, tune which will bring you up to 260-280hp.
Audi A4 DTM - K04 NZ New | All bolt-ons | Carbon Clean done
2012 MK6R Golf |Stage 3+ | Stage 4 DSG | Tuned & Built by HSP Tuning