Author Topic: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA  (Read 9979 times)

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Offline RobClubley

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2014, 02:29:03 pm »
Dan - I'm finding your posts really interesting and I suspect others are too. Maybe it's an NZ small country thing but I can't imagine someone in the UK or European countries taking the time to post such a detailed, informative explanation on a forum like this.
It's great to hear your side of what's going on, and it helps dispel that "us vs. them" attitude that can arise between enthusiasts and "authorities" like the LVVTA
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Offline Danm

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2014, 05:05:19 pm »
Hi Rob

You helped me out a few years back with a bit of VAGCOM diagnosis on my black A4 avant.

I really appreciate the feedback; we don't pipe up on some other forums much as it can get messy. I should have known that Audi people wouldn't be like that.

We'd better come through with the KW struts or opinions may change... no news from Germany yet.

Dan
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Offline RS ZWEI

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2014, 06:00:21 pm »
Hey Jon/Dan, any updates in this issue?
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Offline le mans

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2014, 08:46:52 pm »
KW sent some more information Friday evening NZ time. I'm not sure if it is exactly what LVVTA need but will find out soon I hope.
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Offline le mans

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2014, 10:32:30 am »
KW in Germany have committed to doing static testing of the RS2 struts for the LVVTA, but have given a time frame of '2 - 3 months'  :(

LVVTA have asked for the following information, and I have no explanation why it is not readily available:

Quote
We still need the following information in order to assess the component and to gain assurance that the part has been produced in a controlled manner:
1.       Any other TuV documentation regarding the strut tube and steering arm assembly
2.       Material specification of the strut tube and steering arm
3.       Manufacturing process for the welding
4.       Details of quality control processes for the arm/tube/welding
5.       Test reports for the ultimate strength testing of the steering arm and for the cyclic durability, which should have comparison to the original Audi component

So far KW have not supplied any specific information on the RS2 KW suspension, only general information about TUV approvals and so on.
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Offline RS

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2014, 12:27:52 pm »
Thanks Noel.

Big ups to Chris Petch at Autoquip, who is the NZ agent for KW. He has been really proactive on getting this sorted since I got in touch with him. Hopefully there will be a good outcome to this eventually. Seeing as Chris is being so helpful I'll plug his company here: http://www.autoquip.co.nz

I was going to say "its a shame you didn't buy it off him"

Good on him for helping out, he was very helpful in communicating with the guys at KW when I had my KW's built up through autoquip, we highly recommend Chris.

Have said it before, if you want KW buy from him, his pricing was cheaper than buying online with the bonus of after sales backup.

Hope you get it all sorted soon, another avenue could be to talk to a motorsport company, you may be able to have them covered under an authority card, down side would be the cost and hassle of having to be a car club member and hold a club sport licence. Mine are covered by my authority card  ;)










Offline le mans

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2014, 09:22:28 pm »
I was going to say "its a shame you didn't buy it off him"

Good on him for helping out, he was very helpful in communicating with the guys at KW when I had my KW's built up through autoquip, we highly recommend Chris.

Have said it before, if you want KW buy from him, his pricing was cheaper than buying online with the bonus of after sales backup.

Hope you get it all sorted soon, another avenue could be to talk to a motorsport company, you may be able to have them covered under an authority card, down side would be the cost and hassle of having to be a car club member and hold a club sport licence. Mine are covered by my authority card  ;)

Chris has absolutely gone above and beyond the call of duty. Dan has also been really helpful. Without both of them getting involved I would have made no progress I suspect. I do regret not going through the local KW agent, but I did not know about autoquip when I started looking at aftermarket options. I had also considered kits from Koni, H&R and 2Bennet. I was also expecting the certification to be a formality, as it was when I installed the Bilstein adjustable kit on the RS4. So it's been a steep learning curve you might say! One thing I'll say is that the KW kit is top quality. Although the steering arms are fabricated items they are rock solid. As 80vert said to me in an email - 'you could hang the whole car off one of those arms'. Unfortunately these fabricated arms go against some fairly entrenched engineering principles held dear by the LVVTA, and I can certainly see where they are coming from even though it's outside my area of expertise.
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Offline Danm

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2014, 10:03:02 am »
... another avenue could be to talk to a motorsport company, you may be able to have them covered under an authority card...

Sorry that's not an option, the authority card doesn't cover suspension, if over threshold (adjustables are) it has to be LVV certified.

From MSNZ: http://www.motorsport.org.nz/content/lvv-motorsport-authority-cards
"MotorSport New Zealand (MSNZ) in conjunction with NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) and the Low Volume Vehicle Technical Association (LVVTA) has formulated alternative standards for vehicles permanently modified for motor sport competitions which require to be road registered and used on public roads.The MotorSport/LVV Authority Card is proof that a vehicle modified for motor sport purposes complies with accepted alternative standards (to those of the original manufacturer). The Authority Card details the owner, the vehicle and the applicable approved modifications. The Authority Card is recognised in the NZTA Rules and the LVV Code and is required in order to obtain a Warrant of Fitness.When an owner of a competition vehicle wishes to use it on a public road it is a legal requirement to have an Authority Card issued by MotorSport NZ, if any of the following items are fitted / modified:

Competition safety harness
Roll protection that extends forward of the front seating positions and/or modifications that effect the interior impact rule
Removal of an airbag SRS system
Braided hydraulic brake lines
Hydraulic handbrake
Plastic glazing."

Dan
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Offline RS

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2014, 11:21:51 am »

O.K, scrap that then. Forget I mentioned anything!  :-X  :police:

Must be some kind of given that rally cars get away with it, non of our rally cars have ever needed a Low Volume to get a WOF or pass scrutineering or any other audit.

One of the cars has over $20,000 worth of suspension that would no doubt fail inspection for some reason, the car can handle 200kph on gravel through ruts though  ;) >:D





Offline le mans

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2014, 10:45:53 am »
OE and KW front struts were taken to the LVVTA TAC (Technical Advisory Committee) meeting last night. I don't know what their thoughts are yet. Here some side by side shots I took today:














« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 07:13:36 am by le mans »
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Offline weta.worker

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2014, 12:54:56 pm »
whoa.  to say this has dragged out is quite the understatement!

good luck!
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Offline RS ZWEI

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2014, 09:10:57 pm »
Any updates Jon?

I did wonder what an after market suspension kit front struts step up would be like? If say your KW strut setup was on a non coilover kit it wouldnt be an issue and LVVTA wouldnt be looking at them. They only reason they are looking into it is because you have coilovers.
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Offline 00quattro00

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2014, 10:53:25 pm »
Any updates Jon?

I did wonder what an after market suspension kit front struts step up would be like? If say your KW strut setup was on a non coilover kit it wouldnt be an issue and LVVTA wouldnt be looking at them. They only reason they are looking into it is because you have coilovers.

Any modified/welded steering component has to be certified.
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Offline le mans

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A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2014, 10:01:26 am »
No news yet. Waiting for KW to do some testing and pass the info to LVVTA.
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Offline RS ZWEI

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2014, 10:23:29 pm »
Another month has passed Jon, any luck?
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Offline le mans

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A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2014, 08:45:41 am »
The wheel turns slowly. Hopefully not too much longer. Test results should be available soon according to KW.
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Offline le mans

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2014, 08:41:52 pm »
Overdue for an update on this.

KW commissioned a static strength test from a local university in Germany. This is what we had been waiting so long for. The testing was finally completed with the report dated 10/09/14. They compared the steering arm on the OE RS2 strut and the KW RS2. The KW strut was stiffer than the OE strut and neither showed any evidence of cracking at Fmax of approx 20kN (the equivalent of hanging a 2 tonne weight off the steering arm!).

The LVVTA TAC met and discussed the new information. They basically kicked KW into touch and rejected the suspension for NZ certification again. I wont go into details as it's not for public consumption. Suffice it to say the German KW manager who has spent months following up on this was not a happy camper and neither was I. To be fair to TAC they did have a couple of valid points I thought, including a lack of fatigue testing data. KW have since produced some fatigue test results for a Mercedes component they make and showed the KW inox welds to be more resiliant than the OE welds. However this is mute as LVVTA have stopped replying to my emails and I can only assume they are not going to spend any more time on it. KW have also said they are not going to put any more resources into this so it's a stale mate.

The KW suspension is still on my car while I wait for a Koni/H&R kit I've ordered to arrive. On occasion I take the car for a cruise around the 'driveway' to keep the fluids moving around and the KW kit is just fabulous as a sports focussed set up. But alas it's not to be and I have to move on.
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Offline brian

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2014, 08:57:45 pm »
That is an unfortunate outcome particularly after the time and effort spent on it.
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Offline 89 Coupe

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2014, 10:53:46 pm »
That makes me ANGRY.. :( I wont say anymore 
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Offline beeker

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Re: A cautionary tale...aftermarket suspension and the LVVTA
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2014, 06:13:19 am »
Overdue for an update on this.

KW commissioned a static strength test from a local university in Germany. This is what we had been waiting so long for. The testing was finally completed with the report dated 10/09/14. They compared the steering arm on the OE RS2 strut and the KW RS2. The KW strut was stiffer than the OE strut and neither showed any evidence of cracking at Fmax of approx 20kN (the equivalent of hanging a 2 tonne weight off the steering arm!).

The LVVTA TAC met and discussed the new information. They basically kicked KW into touch and rejected the suspension for NZ certification again. I wont go into details as it's not for public consumption. Suffice it to say the German KW manager who has spent months following up on this was not a happy camper and neither was I. To be fair to TAC they did have a couple of valid points I thought, including a lack of fatigue testing data. KW have since produced some fatigue test results for a Mercedes component they make and showed the KW inox welds to be more resiliant than the OE welds. However this is mute as LVVTA have stopped replying to my emails and I can only assume they are not going to spend any more time on it. KW have also said they are not going to put any more resources into this so it's a stale mate.

The KW suspension is still on my car while I wait for a Koni/H&R kit I've ordered to arrive. On occasion I take the car for a cruise around the 'driveway' to keep the fluids moving around and the KW kit is just fabulous as a sports focussed set up. But alas it's not to be and I have to move on.

Will KW refund you ?
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