Build thread - Rob's Audi UR Quattro

Started by RobClubley, July 22, 2015, 08:39:41 AM

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Pushbutton_auto

3 years ago, you should have bought the Black ooze  ..........  >:D
Beating up parking wardens ain't a crime.

Pushbutton_auto

Quote from: RobClubley on July 18, 2018, 01:08:36 PM
Three years ago, this happened...

And then I removed that piece of tape  ..........................................................................  :-\
Beating up parking wardens ain't a crime.

RobClubley

Quote from: Pushbutton_auto on July 21, 2018, 10:23:19 PM
And then I removed that piece of tape  ..........................................................................  :-\

:D
1985 ur quattro
1992 Ford Courier - the sensible daily

RobClubley

I spent most of yesterday doing things on Rusty, but I don't feel like I made any progress in actually fixing anything.

About halfway through the day, the involuntary horn issue re-appeared!



Somehow the screw at the bottom has snapped, vibrated out and made contact with the horn slip ring. Causing random beeps when steering.



Then there was the intermittent starting issue. Left it ten minutes, no joy. Left it another ten, fired up fine.
Video: https://www.facebook.com/ProjectRustyquattro/videos/1413868148713477/

I pulled the carpet back, to check out the main power wiring.


It actually looks decent.


My "helper"


I replaced the third engine earth (now that I've located it :D )


It seemed to slightly improve the drop in voltage on cranking. But the issue is still there. Next step I think will be to completely replace the wire from ignition to starter as apparently it takes a somewhat circuitous route.

Then there's the suspension clonking, which concerns me. I jacked up the car and checked everything and it all seems tight.
Took Rusty to a local tyre place and we had a good look over the underside, swung off the suspension. All we could hear underneath was a creak from one of the rear wishbone bushes.


But it's more of a "something is loose" noise. Hoping to have time today to drop the suspension and check the top mounts and other bits I can't see.
I have a weekend in Taupo booked next weekend with the family and I really want to take Rusty. At the moment it's not looking good.

The pouring rain provided some more leak testing. The boot is leaking in two places at opposite corners - behind the wheel arch and behind the right rear light.
I also need to fix the holes causing a leak above the driver's footwell. That has been on the list for ages, but I need to get onto it now I'm driving the car.



So lots to do, and nothing fixed yet!


At the shops, refusing to start. The exact same thing happened in the same place last time too. And both times, leaving the car for a while fixed it. So random.
1985 ur quattro
1992 Ford Courier - the sensible daily

80 Vert

#1524
I'll say it again.......fit a hard start relay.....
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=404521
2010 T5 Transporter TDI  Tuned by Superior Tuning NZ
2003 Jetta Coupe soon to be R36TT
1991 Golf GTI 2.0 TSI swapped
1963 Type 34 Karmann Ghia, turbo 2.0
1990 Porsche 964 911 Carrera 4
1980 1303 Beetle vert, under restoration

Horch

hard start relay?.. I?m guessing you mean to say a ignition switch by pass relay to reduce potential voltage drop to the starter solenoid.

IMO there is multiple issues yet to be addressed. The obvious one being what Rob is yet to resolve and that?s the battery going flat and the need to change it weekly. You can go into a tail spin and chase a miultitude of earth straps, relay install, etc etc all day long but first fix the obvious. Guessing possible cause vs diagnosis becomes expensive and frustrating.

If the source power supply is toast then you need to start there and get this resolved.
1.  Fully charge the battery and have it load tested to the correct specification and capacity.
2.   If it?s ok then check current draw to establish if it is being drained by a consumer. Ie alarm, boot light, audio.
3.   If it?s holding a charge with no consumers then you need to check the starting circuit voltage drop
4.   Finally charging circuit alternator output.



2018 Porsche 991 Carrera T Manual
1988 urquattro MB
1986 MB 300SL
1956 DKW RT250
2006 Vespa PX200

80 Vert

#1526
Quote from: Horch on July 22, 2018, 08:54:42 PM
hard start relay?.. I?m guessing you mean to say a ignition switch by pass relay to reduce potential voltage drop to the starter solenoid.



Yes, commony known in the VW world as a hard start relay.  A super common problem on older VW's not equipped with a starter relay.
Even if this is not the cause it's well worth fitting one for the sake of a $20 relay.
2010 T5 Transporter TDI  Tuned by Superior Tuning NZ
2003 Jetta Coupe soon to be R36TT
1991 Golf GTI 2.0 TSI swapped
1963 Type 34 Karmann Ghia, turbo 2.0
1990 Porsche 964 911 Carrera 4
1980 1303 Beetle vert, under restoration

RS ZWEI

Rob, we have had a similar issues over the years with a couple of our Mk1 GTI?s, both times it was the Hall sender.
1980 VW Golf GTI Track Car
1995 Audi RS2
2003 Mini Cooper S (Written off - rear ended)
2005 Mini Cooper S
2006 Skoda Octavia vRS Combi
2009 Renault Megane 230 R26 (Written off - rear ended)
2013 Renault Megane RS265 Redbull RB8

VW'n

I've been plagued by the same horn issues for a few years in the mk2.

Will have to look into it now I've seen this.
Looks identical under my steering wheel.
06 B6 Passat Wagon 2L Turbo (Family Wagon)
87 Mk2 Golf silver (the toy)
95 mk3 gti rusty ABF (Sold)
86 Mk2 Golf red (sold)
89 Mk2 Golf blue (sold)
85 Mk2 Golf GTI silver (parted)

GroupbA2rob

Rob, when I owned it, occasionally I had the same problem with it not starting.
I discovered eventually it was because the dip stick wasn't pushed in properly, once this was done I never had the same problem again
its a wild guess, but it worked for me

RobClubley

Quote from: GroupbA2rob on July 23, 2018, 08:38:08 PM
Rob, when I owned it, occasionally I had the same problem with it not starting.
I discovered eventually it was because the dip stick wasn't pushed in properly, once this was done I never had the same problem again
its a wild guess, but it worked for me

That would cause a vacuum leak, which makes sense. Was it cranking but not starting?
My issue is definitely electrical because it doesn't even try to crank.
1985 ur quattro
1992 Ford Courier - the sensible daily

brian

Quote from: RobClubley on July 24, 2018, 10:47:48 AM

My issue is definitely electrical because it doesn't even try to crank.

Have you had the starter taken apart?
Sounds a lot like a problem I had years ago with a dry joint in the starter itself.
Škoda Fabia 1.0 TSI Race Blue

RS ZWEI

Quote from: RobClubley on July 24, 2018, 10:47:48 AM
That would cause a vacuum leak, which makes sense. Was it cranking but not starting?
My issue is definitely electrical because it doesn't even try to crank.

Cough, cough, hall sender?
1980 VW Golf GTI Track Car
1995 Audi RS2
2003 Mini Cooper S (Written off - rear ended)
2005 Mini Cooper S
2006 Skoda Octavia vRS Combi
2009 Renault Megane 230 R26 (Written off - rear ended)
2013 Renault Megane RS265 Redbull RB8

RobClubley

Quote from: brian on July 24, 2018, 10:56:19 AM
Have you had the starter taken apart?
Sounds a lot like a problem I had years ago with a dry joint in the starter itself.

Not yet. My main problem at the moment is finding time to do all of the things! And the fact that every time I go near the car another issue surfaces :D
Planning a trip to Taupo in it this weekend if I can get the suspension knocking sorted, as I don;t like that!

I dropped it off at Wellington European today because I've run out of time to look at it more myself.

It stood out on the morning school run.
1985 ur quattro
1992 Ford Courier - the sensible daily

le mans

Quote from: RS ZWEI on July 24, 2018, 10:56:25 AM
Cough, cough, hall sender?
If it was hall sender it would still crank wouldn?t it, just not fire up?

80 Vert

#1535
Quote from: le mans on July 24, 2018, 11:09:34 AM
If it was hall sender it would still crank wouldn?t it, just not fire up?

Correct,
2010 T5 Transporter TDI  Tuned by Superior Tuning NZ
2003 Jetta Coupe soon to be R36TT
1991 Golf GTI 2.0 TSI swapped
1963 Type 34 Karmann Ghia, turbo 2.0
1990 Porsche 964 911 Carrera 4
1980 1303 Beetle vert, under restoration

RobClubley

1985 ur quattro
1992 Ford Courier - the sensible daily

black16v

Hey Rob, do has Horch said in instructions 1 to 4. Then it might be time to do some road side diagnostics of that starter motor. When it plays up you want to poke around the starter. When it doesn't crank over see if you are getting power to terminal 50 on the solenoid when you try to crank (could be a two man job). If you get 12 volts and the starter doesn't respond, then you have an internal starter fault. ie solenoid, brushes or armature. Because there is no current draw then there is no voltage drop (something to do with ohm's law). If it cranks slowly or only clicks and the voltage is below, say 8 volts then you could have a short circuit in the starter or voltage drop in the old wiring. So now make sure the car is out of gear and the ignition is off. (you don't want to chase it down the road) If you can bridge the main battery terminal on the solenoid to terminal 50 and it cranks over fine then you have voltage drop in the old wiring and adding a relay will over come this but you will be fixing the symptom not the cause. If it doesn't crank but sparks like crazy or eventhing starts getting hot, you have a fault in the starter.
If the Hall unit is playing up they normally produce no spark and the engine should still crank over ok. However I had one years ago that would randomly cause the engine to crank slow, like a flat battery. It was never the first stat of the day but after the car had been used. I guess somehow it as advancing the spark.
1988 MK II GTI 16V

RobClubley

#1538
I really need to spend a day concentrating on nothing but the electrics and starter. Just need to balance that with family and stuff, this is always my challenge!

As for the suspension:



It is something relatively simple, but it's not a simple fix. The cap that holds the strut insert in place (silver bit on this photo) has come loose on each shock, allowing the cartridge to rattle around. Which is a bad thing!



Unfortunately this needs a special tool making, and means all four struts need to come out so that the tool can fit inside the spring. Bugger.
1985 ur quattro
1992 Ford Courier - the sensible daily

GroupbA2rob

Quote from: RobClubley on July 24, 2018, 10:47:48 AM
That would cause a vacuum leak, which makes sense. Was it cranking but not starting?
My issue is definitely electrical because it doesn't even try to crank.
Correct cranking and not firing