MK5 GTI - DSG vs Manual

Started by Feeding Cone, December 28, 2016, 05:28:47 PM

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Feeding Cone

Hi guys,

Long time listener, first time caller.
I'm getting down to the business end of buying a 4 door MK5 GTI.

Little bit weary of DSG transmissions after reading horror stories (inc on here) - I'd rather go with a 3 pedal option that hopefully isn't going to blow up without warning; however for my budget (~10 to 15 grand) would certainly allow for a much lower mileage DSG equipped car - there's plenty on trademe with 40/50/60 thousand k's vs something at or over 100 for a manual. I'm sure a lower mileage car will be much nicer to run overall - less worn bits, however cost more in DSG oil + maintenance.

I'm curious to know if you get a pre-purchase inspection at Qualitat or similar (I'm in AKL) how much they'll be able to tell about a DSG transmissions overall health just by reading the codes; esp if it's a Japanese import and you don't know much about it's service history.

I'm really just fishing for opinions here.
Lower Ks and take my chances with a DSG or Higher Ks and manual?

GLIDN

Owned both.
Done over 70,000kms in both my manual and DSG GTI's.
I personally would choose a DSG each time.

Even when I had one of the worst experienes with a diesel golf equipped with DSG.

My current gti is over 150,000kms and going strong.
I personally tuned it, done all the mods etc.
Audi A4 DTM - K04 NZ New | All bolt-ons | Carbon Clean done
2012 MK6R Golf |Stage 3+ | Stage 4 DSG | Tuned & Built by HSP Tuning

Feeding Cone

Interesting; is that because they're easier to live with?

GLIDN

No I simply enjoy the DSG far more.
I have manual cars also.

Just remember to never treat it like an automatic.
If you chose to get one.
Audi A4 DTM - K04 NZ New | All bolt-ons | Carbon Clean done
2012 MK6R Golf |Stage 3+ | Stage 4 DSG | Tuned & Built by HSP Tuning

80 Vert

6 speed manual every time, DSG is still just a glorified automatic.
2010 T5 Transporter TDI  Tuned by Superior Tuning NZ
2003 Jetta Coupe soon to be R36TT
1991 Golf GTI 2.0 TSI swapped
1963 Type 34 Karmann Ghia, turbo 2.0
1990 Porsche 964 911 Carrera 4
1980 1303 Beetle vert, under restoration

DAPPR

I was in the exact same boat in July this year - wanting to purchase a MK5 GTI.

My two options were a 140km DSG or a 145km 6 Speed.

Now I also live in Auckland & commute from the Shore to the city every day, so naturally I was leaning towards the DSG.

But, I'm very glad I chose the 6 speed. It keeps you interested in driving, plus it's not as much of a pig as I thought it would be in pathetic Auckland traffic.

Don't get me wrong, I actually quite like the DSG box as it shifts a crap load faster than I can - so is naturally quicker in a straight line than the manual.

However you're clearly capable of driving a manual (less & less people are these days unfortunately), so I'd look for the right deal on a 6 speed.

And most importantly (to me anyway) , make sure it's N.Z new.

Through work we see far too many neglected Japanese imports with little or no service history - at the end of the day they're just ticking time-bombs.

It ranges from no DSG service records, 20-30k between oil changes/servicing & a severe lack of preventative maintenance.

Lewis

spooln

Manual is one of the nicest around as well.
77 CS1 Fiat Spider. 78 Mk1 Scirocco. 83 Mk1 GTI. 12 Abarth 595C Competizione. 18 Golf R. 20 Kodiaq vRS

Feeding Cone

Thanks for the replies.

I've driven my old mans Scirocco and a few A3s that have been DSG equipped; but it was only around the city/on the motorway in traffic. Not used a VW manual before but I've heard they're nice (albeit with a longish throw and foot travel). I also managed to achieve the holy grail of car convincing which has been to get the wifey on board with using a stick (she doesn't know how). As this is going to eventually be our only car that's quite a feat. I've put a few feelers out, but i'll really need to drive both back to back.

All the TM auctions I've asked about with imports have had no service history at all so far - so they're just getting the auction sheet and nothing else.
I guess that makes me comfortable buying anything under the 60,000 km DSG service interval; but nothing over that.
As for a manual - it's either slipping or it's not...


Feeding Cone

OK, so I drove both today.

The DSG is good, but the manual is pretty damn sharp. Was bit hard to do a proper AB as they were at different yards, and the overall condition of the manual was much worse (130k to 80k). The DSG had a much tighter rear end (presumably the shocks were newer).

Thoughts on the manual:
(Wouldn't buy the actual car as it was a bit rough but)
Really high clutch engagement point, long throw for both your foot and the shifter, presumably you can shorten both though. No torque down low made for some kinda weird starts, but they do pull nice above 3/3.5 grand. The gear selection was almost like a honda, less clicky though, but that might have been because the one I drove had done 130k.
Didn't like how high the clutch sat above the dead pedal but that's really splitting hairs. Peddles are pretty nicely placed, could do some nice downshifts.

Thoughts on the DSG:
Easy enough to use, obviously much faster shifting. The shortness of the overall height of the paddles on the wheel make it annoying to change gear (say 1 to 2) with the steering loaded up, like if you were stopped at a 90 degree turn intersection (i've noticed this on other flappy paddle cars before though, and you can remedy it by stick ons). Didn't creep or do anything weird but you can definitely tell there's a computer between you and the output shaft.

My Pick: The Manual.
However finding one as well loved as some of the DSGs will be hard, the one I drove in particular had obviously been very well loved and well looked after, full service book in japanese, every 10,000k.

Now to convince the wifey.

80 Vert

What's your budget if you don't mind sharing?  Might have another option for you.
2010 T5 Transporter TDI  Tuned by Superior Tuning NZ
2003 Jetta Coupe soon to be R36TT
1991 Golf GTI 2.0 TSI swapped
1963 Type 34 Karmann Ghia, turbo 2.0
1990 Porsche 964 911 Carrera 4
1980 1303 Beetle vert, under restoration

The Red Warrior

Quote from: 80 Vert on December 31, 2016, 04:44:31 PM
What's your budget if you don't mind sharing?  Might have another option for you.

He says 10 to 15 grand in his first post. Come on John, it's up to a man of your infinite VW wisdom to convince him to get a manual.

80 Vert

Whoops yeap should have seen that.
I'd be happy to locate a nice car ex japan if he's interested.
There's not a lot of manuals coming up but they are around.
2010 T5 Transporter TDI  Tuned by Superior Tuning NZ
2003 Jetta Coupe soon to be R36TT
1991 Golf GTI 2.0 TSI swapped
1963 Type 34 Karmann Ghia, turbo 2.0
1990 Porsche 964 911 Carrera 4
1980 1303 Beetle vert, under restoration

slowmo

Quote from: 80 Vert on December 31, 2016, 09:43:59 PM
Whoops yeap should have seen that.
I'd be happy to locate a nice car ex japan if he's interested.
There's not a lot of manuals coming up but they are around.

How hard would it be to find a manual MK6 R from Japan John?
Current: 2004 MK4 R32 3-door NZ New DBP

Past: 2010 MK6 GTI / 2013 Nissan Leaf LOL / 2007 B7 RS4 / 2006 MK5 R32 / 2005 MK5 GTI / 1998 MK4 GTI / 1997 B5 A4 MTM

80 Vert

Impossible, all RHD are DSG.
Have only seen 1 or 2 manual which were LHD
2010 T5 Transporter TDI  Tuned by Superior Tuning NZ
2003 Jetta Coupe soon to be R36TT
1991 Golf GTI 2.0 TSI swapped
1963 Type 34 Karmann Ghia, turbo 2.0
1990 Porsche 964 911 Carrera 4
1980 1303 Beetle vert, under restoration

Feeding Cone

Yeah looking for a tidy low mileage manual at this point.

The DSG felt way too clinical, and the wifey isn't a fan either (she's used poverty spec dry clutch FSI's at her work and not enjoyed them at all)...

Going to continue to search slowly though, I've only driven about 2000k's in the last six months.

McDoof

I've got a DSG GTI and I've been driving it for about 8 months now after being a die hard manual driver for many years. It took me a few months to really get the feel for it and only only after having the stage 1 tune done I started to enjoy it. I have $15 paddle extenders off Aliexpress that work a treat. So I'm converted. 
NZ New MK5 GTI - Tuned by HSP Tuning
NZ New B6 Passat Variant 125kw TDI 4motion
MK7 GTI - Tornado Red

red_gti

Quote from: GLIDN on December 28, 2016, 08:04:07 PM
Just remember to never treat it like an automatic.
If you chose to get one.

Noob question here, but... what do you mean by not treating it like an automatic?

Cheers.

The Red Warrior

Don't feather the throttle and creep along in heavy traffic. Don't creep up steep inclines.
I think GLIDN has linked to a whole thread about it somewhere.


BINKZ

Quote from: le mans on January 03, 2017, 04:41:18 PM
This might help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W42zsFYjZvM

Engineering Explained is an excellent channel, heaps of helpful and explanatory stuff on it.
"Where must we go, we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves." - The First History of Man