Author Topic: MK3 Golf Starting Issues 1.8L  (Read 1014 times)

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Offline 124dude

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MK3 Golf Starting Issues 1.8L
« on: January 09, 2017, 11:41:55 am »
Morning all,

FYI we live in QLD, so it is an Aussie Built mk3...

My brother in-law has a 1.8L mk3 5dr golf manual and we are experiencing starting issues. It was very intermittent to begin with, with the starter ticking once and the other times nothing happening at all. Turn the key and dash lights do NOT dim. I have since charged the battery and tested, which came back ok, not new but not totally stuffed either. I also removed the starter motor and bench tested, which also tested fine. I had a spare starter which I fitted and same thing still happens. Turn the key and no body is home. The dash lights no not dim. It has no after-market alarm system, all factory.

I have tested for battery voltage and I get battery voltage at the starter motor from the battery positive direct feed wire (which is expected), I also get battery voltage at the exciter/solenoid switch wire when I turn the key (I had that plug disconnected to test). Yet with battery voltage at both those terminals, nothing happens. I can use a jump wire from the spade terminal where the exciter/solenoid switch wire connects to, and jump it straight to the battery positive feed wire on the starter and the vehicle will crank and turn over (if the key is in the on position).

So the question really is, am I missing something that needs testing or is there something else going on?

Vehicle is mostly standard apart from exhaust, lowering springs/shocks and a sound system.

Cheers

1971 Fiat 124 BC
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Offline M M

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Re: MK3 Golf Starting Issues 1.8L
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2017, 01:26:39 pm »
How much voltage are you getting from that wire that activates the starter? Maybe it's putting out power but not enough to get it turning.
Bought not built.

Offline 124dude

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Re: MK3 Golf Starting Issues 1.8L
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2017, 02:15:17 pm »
Hey, Im getting whatever battery voltage is at the time when I turn they key. From memory, battery voltage was around 12.8-13.0v. I would get that figure at both the positive feed terminal and the exciter/solenoid switch wire once the key is cranked. Cheers
1971 Fiat 124 BC
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Offline M M

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Re: MK3 Golf Starting Issues 1.8L
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2017, 11:49:09 am »
Have you tried either jump starting the car with another or a jumper pack, or a new battery?
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Offline 124dude

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Re: MK3 Golf Starting Issues 1.8L
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2017, 12:28:25 pm »
Morning, I have tried using a jumper pack but does not help at all. Still same symptom as turn key and nothing happens. I have not tried a new battery - would have thought using a jumper pack would have eliminated the need of trying a new battery. Only thing I haven't tried is back probing the exciter/solenoid switch wire with it connected to the starter motor and see how many volts I am getting there. With it disconnected, I am getting whatever battery voltage is at the time of testing (12.8-13v).

Cheers.
1971 Fiat 124 BC
Life's Short..... VASK IT

Offline M M

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Re: MK3 Golf Starting Issues 1.8L
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2017, 01:47:22 pm »
Morning, I have tried using a jumper pack but does not help at all. Still same symptom as turn key and nothing happens. I have not tried a new battery - would have thought using a jumper pack would have eliminated the need of trying a new battery. Only thing I haven't tried is back probing the exciter/solenoid switch wire with it connected to the starter motor and see how many volts I am getting there. With it disconnected, I am getting whatever battery voltage is at the time of testing (12.8-13v).

Cheers.

Jumper or new battery would be the same so that's not the issue, unless your jumper cables aren't transferring enough current but I don't believe that is the issue in this case. Did you test the continuity of the trigger wire from the starter motor end to the ignition switch? If it's not that then really the only other thing I can think of is the ignition switch. Try jump that wire to power at the ignition switch plug and see if it turns over then.

Edit: One other thing, did you check your grounds? Make sure they are all ok. It's something often repeated but can cause all sorts of issues when overlooked.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 01:51:13 pm by M M »
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Offline GLIDN

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Re: MK3 Golf Starting Issues 1.8L
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2017, 02:11:18 pm »
as a side note.

Have you checked crank angle sensor or knock sensor?
I'm guessing this a 2E engine mk3?

Or even insured there is fuel on turn over and the fuel pump has simply not died?
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Offline 80 Vert

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Re: MK3 Golf Starting Issues 1.8L
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2017, 03:57:18 pm »
as a side note.

Have you checked crank angle sensor or knock sensor?
I'm guessing this a 2E engine mk3?

Or even insured there is fuel on turn over and the fuel pump has simply not died?

Fuel pump or crank sensor does not stop it turning over which is what it is not doing........
2013 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1
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Offline 80 Vert

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Re: MK3 Golf Starting Issues 1.8L
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2017, 03:58:58 pm »
Morning all,

FYI we live in QLD, so it is an Aussie Built mk3...

My brother in-law has a 1.8L mk3 5dr golf manual and we are experiencing starting issues. It was very intermittent to begin with, with the starter ticking once and the other times nothing happening at all. Turn the key and dash lights do NOT dim. I have since charged the battery and tested, which came back ok, not new but not totally stuffed either. I also removed the starter motor and bench tested, which also tested fine. I had a spare starter which I fitted and same thing still happens. Turn the key and no body is home. The dash lights no not dim. It has no after-market alarm system, all factory.

I have tested for battery voltage and I get battery voltage at the starter motor from the battery positive direct feed wire (which is expected), I also get battery voltage at the exciter/solenoid switch wire when I turn the key (I had that plug disconnected to test). Yet with battery voltage at both those terminals, nothing happens. I can use a jump wire from the spade terminal where the exciter/solenoid switch wire connects to, and jump it straight to the battery positive feed wire on the starter and the vehicle will crank and turn over (if the key is in the on position).

So the question really is, am I missing something that needs testing or is there something else going on?

Vehicle is mostly standard apart from exhaust, lowering springs/shocks and a sound system.

Cheers

Check you have a good chassis ground from battery to starter etc
When it does it again try this, put it in gear and rock back and forth then try again.
Sounds stupid I know but try it.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 04:06:45 pm by 80 Vert »
2013 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1
2010 T5 Transporter TDI
2003 Jetta Coupe soon to be R36TT
1963 Type 34 Karmann Ghia, turbo 2.0
1990 Porsche 964 Carrera 4
1980 1303 Beetle vert, in pieces

https://www.facebook.com/pages/West-Worx/460154187360186

Offline 124dude

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Re: MK3 Golf Starting Issues 1.8L
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2017, 04:34:21 pm »
Arvo,

Thanks for all the advice, I will give them a crack during the week.

The vehicle will start and run perfectly if I have the key in the On Position and use the jump wire to engage the starter. Could you then assume that crank/knock sensors and fuel system are operating normal? A faulty sensor may let engine crank but not fire and run? Once running, I can drive it & she's smooth as a whistle.

Thanks again for advice.... will keep posted.

1971 Fiat 124 BC
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Offline 80 Vert

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Re: MK3 Golf Starting Issues 1.8L
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2017, 04:40:58 pm »
Yes, a faulty sensor will just stop it running.
2013 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1
2010 T5 Transporter TDI
2003 Jetta Coupe soon to be R36TT
1963 Type 34 Karmann Ghia, turbo 2.0
1990 Porsche 964 Carrera 4
1980 1303 Beetle vert, in pieces

https://www.facebook.com/pages/West-Worx/460154187360186

Offline GLIDN

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Re: MK3 Golf Starting Issues 1.8L
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2017, 05:14:23 pm »
Arvo,

Thanks for all the advice, I will give them a crack during the week.

The vehicle will start and run perfectly if I have the key in the On Position and use the jump wire to engage the starter. Could you then assume that crank/knock sensors and fuel system are operating normal? A faulty sensor may let engine crank but not fire and run? Once running, I can drive it & she's smooth as a whistle.

Thanks again for advice.... will keep posted.



In that case, ignore the fuel related issues.
Have you tried bridging the wires on the ignition column then?
Perhaps that's what's playing up if you mentioned you can short the starter and it fires up.

Thanks John (Vert80), missed the click once.
Top Secret Project
MK3 GTI 16v Tornado Red - under the knife soon
Mk3 12v VR6 Variant
MK5 GTI DSG - Unitronic Stage 1 | Stage 1 DSG | Unitronic Intake |Tuned by HSP Tuning |
MK6 GTI DSG -  Unitronic Stage 2 | Stage 1 DSG | Unitronic Intake

Offline 124dude

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Re: MK3 Golf Starting Issues 1.8L
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2017, 06:44:48 pm »
Gidday,

Have not tried to bridge the wires at the column. Does anyone know what the colour of the wires are? I haven't had it apart up there to look and see, is there a multi-plug etc etc??

I initially thought ignition barrel but when I tested for power at the exciter/solenoid switch wire and I got battery voltage when I turned the key, I ruled that out. My thought being that if I had no power at the exciter wire, then turned the key and got battery voltage at the exciter wire, that would suggest the key ignition system is working?

Thanks for your help!
1971 Fiat 124 BC
Life's Short..... VASK IT

Offline M M

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Re: MK3 Golf Starting Issues 1.8L
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2017, 10:07:06 pm »
Gidday,

Have not tried to bridge the wires at the column. Does anyone know what the colour of the wires are? I haven't had it apart up there to look and see, is there a multi-plug etc etc??

I initially thought ignition barrel but when I tested for power at the exciter/solenoid switch wire and I got battery voltage when I turned the key, I ruled that out. My thought being that if I had no power at the exciter wire, then turned the key and got battery voltage at the exciter wire, that would suggest the key ignition system is working?

Thanks for your help!

Use this website to find out the wire colors, it has everything you need: http://a2resource.com/

As for the ignition part, not necessarily because it might not be sending enough current to ignite it. It's worth a shot in any case.
Bought not built.

Offline 124dude

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Re: MK3 Golf Starting Issues 1.8L
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2017, 07:04:59 pm »
Update Time:

We had a quiet day at work this afternoon, so in came the golf and started doing the tests suggested. I firstly started by testing for power at the exciter/solenoid switch wire with it connected and back-probing with my multi-meter. With the plug connected, it spiked to 2v then dropped to 0.2v. Obviously not enough volts to crank.

I then took the advice and headed towards the switch, as it seemed the most likely culprit. Once the column shroud were removed and the switch unplugged, I then bypassed the switch by jumping two wires. And what ya know, she cranked, and cranked.

Lesson of the day - VWs must require the plug connected to complete the circuit and to give accurate results.

So, I do have a spare parts car in the garage, but am in half-minds to fit second hand, as it may happen next week, or may happen in 10yrs.

Thanks again for your advice, and I'll know where to begin if something like this happens again.

Cheers

Scott
1971 Fiat 124 BC
Life's Short..... VASK IT