MK4 R32 - ECU ReMap

Started by samdaynz, October 25, 2017, 11:51:49 AM

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samdaynz

Hi Guys,

I'm very new here and looking at getting my R32's ECU remapped. I am sure some people here have had it done, can anyone point me in the right direction to where is best? I'm a bit confused as to where to go as prices seem to range from $750 to $1500. I am based in Auckland.

Cheers!!

McDoof

Have a chat with GLIDN on this forum. He's done a few of them in his time. He's based on Brown's Bay
NZ New MK5 GTI - Tuned by HSP Tuning
NZ New B6 Passat Variant 125kw TDI 4motion
MK7 GTI - Tornado Red

80 Vert

Complete waste of money on a non turbo car, better to spend money on other upgrades.
2010 T5 Transporter TDI  Tuned by Superior Tuning NZ
2003 Jetta Coupe soon to be R36TT
1991 Golf GTI 2.0 TSI swapped
1963 Type 34 Karmann Ghia, turbo 2.0
1990 Porsche 964 911 Carrera 4
1980 1303 Beetle vert, under restoration

McDoof

ECU remap on a N/A car might not give you big numbers to brag about, but it will give you a better torque curve if done right. IMO that makes the car much better to drive.
NZ New MK5 GTI - Tuned by HSP Tuning
NZ New B6 Passat Variant 125kw TDI 4motion
MK7 GTI - Tornado Red

80 Vert

The gain will be soo small you will barely feel it. Many opinions out there on this subject this is just mine.
I'd never ever waste 750-1500 on remapping an N/A car.
2010 T5 Transporter TDI  Tuned by Superior Tuning NZ
2003 Jetta Coupe soon to be R36TT
1991 Golf GTI 2.0 TSI swapped
1963 Type 34 Karmann Ghia, turbo 2.0
1990 Porsche 964 911 Carrera 4
1980 1303 Beetle vert, under restoration

Worms

I've "heard" the R32's are NOT particularly responsive to remapping anyway, some minor gains but hardly worth it.

They actually have a really good low end torque curve, but they are NOT a performance engine, they're a bit of a clunker - 184kw from 3.2L is pretty mediocre, even in their day.

Cams and a map is a bit different, but that's getting into big dollars already.

Save up for a supercharger  >:D   I'm going to tell my Mrs that ours is broken and I need a new one  ;D


McDoof

I guess my experience with a NA 3.0 Subaru was a bit different. A few reasons for that though. 1. The factory ECU map is terrible and leaves a big hole in the torque delivery.  2. The remap only cost $400, so not quite in VAG territory for prices.
In the end it cost me less then $1000 for headers, and ECU remap and got a useful 30something kw gain from it and a torque curve so flat it looked like a table.
NZ New MK5 GTI - Tuned by HSP Tuning
NZ New B6 Passat Variant 125kw TDI 4motion
MK7 GTI - Tornado Red

GLIDN

As I have tuned many mk4 R32 golfs.

I have seen as much as 20kw @ wheels increase in low RPM range 2000-4500rpm range.
There after it mellows out to 10-15kw @ the wheels increase. (yes I have dyno graphs)

So in short it's most certainly not a waste of time.
An entire new experience and the way the R32 should have been from the start.

To finish off, I have seen mk4 R32 golfs into the mid 13 second quarter mile bracket simply from a retune.
Audi A4 DTM - K04 NZ New | All bolt-ons | Carbon Clean done
2012 MK6R Golf |Stage 3+ | Stage 4 DSG | Tuned & Built by HSP Tuning

80 Vert

#8
Please post the dyno graphs, everyone always talks optimistic numbers but no one ever backs it up.
And please spare me with overseas graphs, NZ dyno plots before and after.
2010 T5 Transporter TDI  Tuned by Superior Tuning NZ
2003 Jetta Coupe soon to be R36TT
1991 Golf GTI 2.0 TSI swapped
1963 Type 34 Karmann Ghia, turbo 2.0
1990 Porsche 964 911 Carrera 4
1980 1303 Beetle vert, under restoration

Filx

Quote from: GLIDN on October 27, 2017, 10:40:18 PM
As I have tuned many mk4 R32 golfs.

I have seen as much as 20kw @ wheels increase in low RPM range 2000-4500rpm range.
There after it mellows out to 10-15kw @ the wheels increase. (yes I have dyno graphs)

So in short it's most certainly not a waste of time.
An entire new experience and the way the R32 should have been from the start.

To finish off, I have seen mk4 R32 golfs into the mid 13 second quarter mile bracket simply from a retune.

Oh common Hennie, I know you sell this stuff but really - a 20kw gain at the wheels at low RPM on a NA engine? The car is probably only making around 100kw at those RPMs and you're saying you can gain 20%. Where is that 20% extra air coming from to make that power?
FAIL - First Attempt In Learning

M

We do remaps down here in Queenstown and I get asked almost weekly to do R32's. I always talk the customer out of it with the simple statement of "I wouldn't pay for it personally, therefore I wouldn't advise it either". But then, a salesman I am not.

There is a VERY slight difference in response but that is largely due to throttle mapping.  We have done the odd one that customer has insisted on or has wanted cat delete so needed it anyway and they say they "think" it feels better..... placebo in my eyes.

I will await the barrage of "your remaps must not be great then"  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Too much power is almost enough.

____________________________________________

GLIDN

Quote from: Filx on October 30, 2017, 07:57:05 AM
Oh common Hennie, I know you sell this stuff but really - a 20kw gain at the wheels at low RPM on a NA engine? The car is probably only making around 100kw at those RPMs and you're saying you can gain 20%. Where is that 20% extra air coming from to make that power?

Phil, some how you may incorrect idea of what I do?
Unless it's physically worth it? I will not tune any car. Which is what I advise anyone I interact with.

Everyone works hard for their money and I understand this.
If I'm not willing to do something to my own car? I will most certainly not do it on anyone else's car.

To be fair I send away approx. 40% of clients due to their car not even being in sound condition before any mods are to be carried out.
I'd rather save anyone from themselves so to speak then take a dime from them, full well knowing the outcome will not be what it should be.

Do Remember thou... I owned my own Mk4 R32 for almost 2 years doing R&D from intakes, suspension, tuning and haldex controllers.
That way I know if something is actually a worthwhile investment/upgrade or not. This is why I advise against any intake mods on these. As they do not gain any note worthy power on this particular platform.

The power above quoted are specific to Mk4 R32.

The Mk5 typically only sees a 10-15kw increase. But again, that's not that big numbers?
How is this fact? The mk5 R32 achieving 0-100kph in 6.7 seconds now manages a very impressive 5.5 seconds 0-100kph.
That's most certainly noticeable. No matter which way you look at it?

I'll happily post a dyno graph. Once I have made yet another online account to host photo's with.
Audi A4 DTM - K04 NZ New | All bolt-ons | Carbon Clean done
2012 MK6R Golf |Stage 3+ | Stage 4 DSG | Tuned & Built by HSP Tuning

80 Vert

To claim 20kw gain at 2000-4500 rpm on any NA car tells me you clearly do not understand how an NA engine works.
Let's see the dyno graphs as you claim, physically not possible without cams, raising rpm etc.
2010 T5 Transporter TDI  Tuned by Superior Tuning NZ
2003 Jetta Coupe soon to be R36TT
1991 Golf GTI 2.0 TSI swapped
1963 Type 34 Karmann Ghia, turbo 2.0
1990 Porsche 964 911 Carrera 4
1980 1303 Beetle vert, under restoration

VW'n

Is even one OK with buttered popcorn?
06 B6 Passat Wagon 2L Turbo (Family Wagon)
87 Mk2 Golf silver (the toy)
95 mk3 gti rusty ABF (Sold)
86 Mk2 Golf red (sold)
89 Mk2 Golf blue (sold)
85 Mk2 Golf GTI silver (parted)

Period_Correct_

hi Samdaynz,

I see its your first post so welcome to the Klub.

Are you daily driving this car?

Reason I ask is I have dabbled a little bit with modifying a Normal aspirated ( no turbo or supercharger ) car and I found to get any decent gains you need to change the camshafts and move the power band higher in the rev range and then provide the fuel to balance the air fuel ratio. This way you will make some gains in power, but and its a big but, you will sacrifice torque down low as you have changed the camshaft to do this and for a daily driver, torque is what you really want. In my opinion if you tuned your engine without any other mods I doubt you would notice any differences worth justifying the cost.

If its a track car, torque is still your friend but the sing of a 6 cylinder at high rpm with ITBS is the best sensation on this planet ( bar a few exceptions )

Cheers,
1971 Porsche 911T | 1990 Audi Quattro Turbo | 2003 Audi RS6 Avant | 2009 Renault Megane R26

Filx

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree as I remain completely skeptical there's anywhere near that kind of power to be gained remapping an NA engine, if any at all. Maybe there's other benefits, maybe drivability, but that's not necessarily making any more power. Looking forward to seeing some form of proof of the benefit and happy to be proved wrong.

Quote from: GLIDN on October 31, 2017, 09:29:27 AM
Phil, some how you may incorrect idea of what I do?
Unless it's physically worth it? I will not tune any car. Which is what I advise anyone I interact with.

Everyone works hard for their money and I understand this.
If I'm not willing to do something to my own car? I will most certainly not do it on anyone else's car.

To be fair I send away approx. 40% of clients due to their car not even being in sound condition before any mods are to be carried out.
I'd rather save anyone from themselves so to speak then take a dime from them, full well knowing the outcome will not be what it should be.

Do Remember thou... I owned my own Mk4 R32 for almost 2 years doing R&D from intakes, suspension, tuning and haldex controllers.
That way I know if something is actually a worthwhile investment/upgrade or not. This is why I advise against any intake mods on these. As they do not gain any note worthy power on this particular platform.

The power above quoted are specific to Mk4 R32.

The Mk5 typically only sees a 10-15kw increase. But again, that's not that big numbers?
How is this fact? The mk5 R32 achieving 0-100kph in 6.7 seconds now manages a very impressive 5.5 seconds 0-100kph.
That's most certainly noticeable. No matter which way you look at it?

I'll happily post a dyno graph. Once I have made yet another online account to host photo's with.
FAIL - First Attempt In Learning

McDoof

Quote from: 80 Vert on October 31, 2017, 10:27:46 AM
To claim 20kw gain at 2000-4500 rpm on any NA car tells me you clearly do not understand how an NA engine works.
Let's see the dyno graphs as you claim, physically not possible without cams, raising rpm etc.

Doesn't the R32 engine have Variable Valve timing? I would have thought, that by getting the ignition timing and the VVT set up right, that there would be some decent gains to be made. I know that in the old days of push rod V8s that cams were needed, but with VVT you can have any number of cam setups in the same engine. These engines probably don't have a variable lift function, but VVT does help.
NZ New MK5 GTI - Tuned by HSP Tuning
NZ New B6 Passat Variant 125kw TDI 4motion
MK7 GTI - Tornado Red

80 Vert

Not to that extent it won't, lets be real here we are talking 32-35HP at the crank gain...........I don't think so.
But again that's just my opinion which I've always had, never remap an NA VW, not worth the $$ invested.
2010 T5 Transporter TDI  Tuned by Superior Tuning NZ
2003 Jetta Coupe soon to be R36TT
1991 Golf GTI 2.0 TSI swapped
1963 Type 34 Karmann Ghia, turbo 2.0
1990 Porsche 964 911 Carrera 4
1980 1303 Beetle vert, under restoration

McDoof

Really there is only one way to see.
Genuine, made in NZ, before and after Dyno plots.
NZ New MK5 GTI - Tuned by HSP Tuning
NZ New B6 Passat Variant 125kw TDI 4motion
MK7 GTI - Tornado Red

RS ZWEI

Quote from: GLIDN on October 31, 2017, 09:29:27 AM
Phil, some how you may incorrect idea of what I do?
Unless it's physically worth it? I will not tune any car. Which is what I advise anyone I interact with.

Everyone works hard for their money and I understand this.
If I'm not willing to do something to my own car? I will most certainly not do it on anyone else's car.

To be fair I send away approx. 40% of clients due to their car not even being in sound condition before any mods are to be carried out.
I'd rather save anyone from themselves so to speak then take a dime from them, full well knowing the outcome will not be what it should be.

Do Remember thou... I owned my own Mk4 R32 for almost 2 years doing R&D from intakes, suspension, tuning and haldex controllers.
That way I know if something is actually a worthwhile investment/upgrade or not. This is why I advise against any intake mods on these. As they do not gain any note worthy power on this particular platform.

The power above quoted are specific to Mk4 R32.

The Mk5 typically only sees a 10-15kw increase. But again, that's not that big numbers?
How is this fact? The mk5 R32 achieving 0-100kph in 6.7 seconds now manages a very impressive 5.5 seconds 0-100kph.
That's most certainly noticeable. No matter which way you look at it?

I'll happily post a dyno graph. Once I have made yet another online account to host photo's with.

Hennie, whats the trade off for this power gain? Does the fuel economy suffer?
1980 VW Golf GTI Track Car
1995 Audi RS2
2003 Mini Cooper S (Written off - rear ended)
2005 Mini Cooper S
2006 Skoda Octavia vRS Combi
2009 Renault Megane 230 R26 (Written off - rear ended)
2013 Renault Megane RS265 Redbull RB8