Author Topic: MK4 R32 - ECU ReMap  (Read 1037 times)

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Offline Filx

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Re: MK4 R32 - ECU ReMap
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2017, 07:54:52 am »
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree as I remain completely skeptical there's anywhere near that kind of power to be gained remapping an NA engine, if any at all. Maybe there's other benefits, maybe drivability, but that's not necessarily making any more power. Looking forward to seeing some form of proof of the benefit and happy to be proved wrong.

Phil, some how you may incorrect idea of what I do?
Unless it's physically worth it? I will not tune any car. Which is what I advise anyone I interact with.

Everyone works hard for their money and I understand this.
If I'm not willing to do something to my own car? I will most certainly not do it on anyone else's car.

To be fair I send away approx. 40% of clients due to their car not even being in sound condition before any mods are to be carried out.
I'd rather save anyone from themselves so to speak then take a dime from them, full well knowing the outcome will not be what it should be.

Do Remember thou... I owned my own Mk4 R32 for almost 2 years doing R&D from intakes, suspension, tuning and haldex controllers.
That way I know if something is actually a worthwhile investment/upgrade or not. This is why I advise against any intake mods on these. As they do not gain any note worthy power on this particular platform.

The power above quoted are specific to Mk4 R32.

The Mk5 typically only sees a 10-15kw increase. But again, that's not that big numbers?
How is this fact? The mk5 R32 achieving 0-100kph in 6.7 seconds now manages a very impressive 5.5 seconds 0-100kph.
That's most certainly noticeable. No matter which way you look at it?

I'll happily post a dyno graph. Once I have made yet another online account to host photo's with.
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Offline McDoof

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Re: MK4 R32 - ECU ReMap
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2017, 09:40:55 am »
To claim 20kw gain at 2000-4500 rpm on any NA car tells me you clearly do not understand how an NA engine works.
Let's see the dyno graphs as you claim, physically not possible without cams, raising rpm etc.

Doesn't the R32 engine have Variable Valve timing? I would have thought, that by getting the ignition timing and the VVT set up right, that there would be some decent gains to be made. I know that in the old days of push rod V8s that cams were needed, but with VVT you can have any number of cam setups in the same engine. These engines probably don't have a variable lift function, but VVT does help.
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Offline 80 Vert

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Re: MK4 R32 - ECU ReMap
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2017, 10:15:58 am »
Not to that extent it won't, lets be real here we are talking 32-35HP at the crank gain...........I don't think so.
But again that's just my opinion which I've always had, never remap an NA VW, not worth the $$ invested.
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Offline McDoof

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Re: MK4 R32 - ECU ReMap
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2017, 10:28:05 am »
Really there is only one way to see.
Genuine, made in NZ, before and after Dyno plots.
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Offline RS ZWEI

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Re: MK4 R32 - ECU ReMap
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2017, 01:11:31 pm »
Phil, some how you may incorrect idea of what I do?
Unless it's physically worth it? I will not tune any car. Which is what I advise anyone I interact with.

Everyone works hard for their money and I understand this.
If I'm not willing to do something to my own car? I will most certainly not do it on anyone else's car.

To be fair I send away approx. 40% of clients due to their car not even being in sound condition before any mods are to be carried out.
I'd rather save anyone from themselves so to speak then take a dime from them, full well knowing the outcome will not be what it should be.

Do Remember thou... I owned my own Mk4 R32 for almost 2 years doing R&D from intakes, suspension, tuning and haldex controllers.
That way I know if something is actually a worthwhile investment/upgrade or not. This is why I advise against any intake mods on these. As they do not gain any note worthy power on this particular platform.

The power above quoted are specific to Mk4 R32.

The Mk5 typically only sees a 10-15kw increase. But again, that's not that big numbers?
How is this fact? The mk5 R32 achieving 0-100kph in 6.7 seconds now manages a very impressive 5.5 seconds 0-100kph.
That's most certainly noticeable. No matter which way you look at it?

I'll happily post a dyno graph. Once I have made yet another online account to host photo's with.

Hennie, whats the trade off for this power gain? Does the fuel economy suffer?
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Offline Filx

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Re: MK4 R32 - ECU ReMap
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2017, 02:49:25 pm »
Really there is only one way to see.
Genuine, made in NZ, before and after Dyno plots.

Agreed. But I doubt we'll see that any time soon.
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Offline GLIDN

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Re: MK4 R32 - ECU ReMap
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2017, 05:58:47 pm »
Hennie, whats the trade off for this power gain? Does the fuel economy suffer?


Nik if driving no differently? Then improvements have been seen. On my own R32 doing long distance driving I gained 100kms per tank.
Still not driving sedately however

Agreed. But I doubt we'll see that any time soon.

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Sorry I was working till 4am finish off cars, this is only reason I have not yet had chance to post anything as of yet.
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Offline GLIDN

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Re: MK4 R32 - ECU ReMap
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2017, 05:59:56 pm »
mk4_r32_dyno_stage1 by Hennie Sadie, on Flickr

There you go, before and after.
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Offline NasTnaS

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Re: MK4 R32 - ECU ReMap
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2017, 08:52:09 am »
Hey Hennie, what are the factors that are in play to give those gains? What settings did you play with to achieve that? Do you think there's any more to gain at the sacrifice of something else?
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Offline 80 Vert

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Re: MK4 R32 - ECU ReMap
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2017, 09:04:06 am »
I guess we'll never know what other modifications were done to achieve those numbers, a remap alone won't do that.
Dyno graph could relate to anything, no supporting evidence to suggest what car, where etc etc.
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Online le mans

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Re: MK4 R32 - ECU ReMap
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2017, 11:53:07 am »
I don't really fancy wading into this discussion, however one thing possibly worth noting is that factory tunes tend to favour a flat torque curve so it's possible the factory tune has the ignition significantly retarded below MBT (the ignition timing that gives the maximum torque at a given load point) lower down in the rpm range. The factory tune may also be leaner (for emissions) which would offer less knock resistance however knock isn't usually limiting on NA engine ie you get to MBT before it starts knocking. So I don't completely discount the possibility gains could be made without other hardware changes, however this is only speculation on my part.
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Offline McDoof

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Re: MK4 R32 - ECU ReMap
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2017, 09:31:05 am »
I've seen good gains on NA engines in the past, so that graph doesn't look out of the ordinary to me.
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Online schattenblau

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Re: MK4 R32 - ECU ReMap
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2017, 11:21:39 am »
ditto
and the graphs don't go backwards !
i've seen tunes (eg. honda ) which produced less power than stock.

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Offline GLIDN

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Re: MK4 R32 - ECU ReMap
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2017, 11:22:01 am »
Hey Hennie, what are the factors that are in play to give those gains? What settings did you play with to achieve that? Do you think there's any more to gain at the sacrifice of something else?

Spent most of the time with variable valve timing then fuelling to achieve this.
This is was done a 3dr mk4 R32. Everything else being entirely stock (including Air filter)
Best part was that there was zero timing pull afterwards (Stock is actually between -3.5 and -4.5 degrees)

There is more power to be had. But with Stock Headers it's a little pointless as they cannot flow much more.
So Insuring the EGT's do not sky rocket is key.

Would I recommend the Headers + CAT removal on these? short answer is no, unless you had CAMS.
Power increase after this is not massive. Torque gain is noteworthy however.

But Cost of Headers, CAMS + labour and retuning. There are far better ways to spend money on a mk4 R32.
Such as Haldex upgrade, swaybars or Lighter brakes etc.

Having retuned a well known companies customers R32.
The tune was appalling with close to -11 degrees of timing pull (any power added was basically non-existent due to too much timing requested) . Can't believe the owner did not hear or feel the engine knock.
Removed this all, made the power more linear best of all after lots of logging. I spotted one case of -1.5 degrees of timing pull for 8 milliseconds. Just as a final touch, added no lift shift (Flat shifting) too.

I guess we'll never know what other modifications were done to achieve those numbers, a remap alone won't do that.
Dyno graph could relate to anything, no supporting evidence to suggest what car, where etc.


Doubt all you like John... I'm not here to convince you or even advertise my services as I stated previously.
You wanted a dyno graph of a before and after of a mk4 R32 on the dyno in 4wd mode, which is exactly what I provided.

However as a side note, that a remap alone can't achieve all that much?
On the 2014 RS7, I see gains of 97KW + 190Nm.
With nothing more than a remap alone. (Yes I understand its not even closely the same car)
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 05:13:52 pm by GLIDN »
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Offline Filx

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Re: MK4 R32 - ECU ReMap
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2017, 07:49:06 am »
mk4_r32_dyno_stage1 by Hennie Sadie, on Flickr

There you go, before and after.

I can't say that vague photo of a dyno screen does anything to make me less skeptical. I mean who's dyno was that? When was that done?

Anyway, it doesn't really matter, each to their own. I guess what you're saying is that VAG, with their millions of dollars and years of R&D, trying to sell performance cars in a highly competitive car market are leaving a lot of gains on the table with their NA engine mapping. Doesn't make sense to me but if people are happy to buy the maps and happy with the results then that's up to them.
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