Author Topic: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3  (Read 2404 times)

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Offline digginz

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Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« on: February 14, 2018, 11:16:38 am »
Hey all, new to the forums.

I was looking at getting a mk6 R/s3 8p.  But after some research I found that I could potentially get a mk6 gti have it tuned and still have money left over as opposed to a stock 6R/S3.  What would be everyone's thoughts around this?  Is the R/S3 that much better of a car to warrant the extra cash?

I commute in to work so I don't "daily" my cars, so most of my driving is just putting around town and some spirited drives in the weekends (usually when the weather is good).

Any thoughts around this would be much appreciated.

Offline Filx

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2018, 11:41:16 am »
For my 2c get the GTI, get a tune and some really good tires.
FAIL - First Attempt In Learning

Offline schattenblau

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2018, 12:35:44 pm »
ditto !

or first gen RS3 ?
they are dropping into the $40s now.

Offline DTM

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2018, 02:48:44 pm »
Agree on the first gen RS3 , that 5 pot turbo  is a sublime motor and makes all the right noises with more than enough  power to keep you happy all day everyday. 

Offline digginz

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2018, 03:19:16 pm »
Would love a RS3, but unfortunately budget doesn't allow it.
Looking at spending around 25k.

I've read that the mk 6 gti's have issues with the timing tensioner and would be a good preempt to get it replaced, has anyone had this done?  And how much were the costs?
If I went down the gti route, id start with new wheels (not a fan on the stock ones) and some decent rubber, lowering springs, front and rear sway bars, and a stage 1 remap.

Enjoy the car for a bit then when I get the itch again, stage 2 with intake, turbo back exhaust.

Online le mans

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2018, 03:44:14 pm »
I wouldn’t say no to either but would go the 5-pot if budget allowed  >:D
B5 A4, B5 S4, B5 RS4, P1 RS2

Offline DTM

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2018, 04:04:16 pm »
I think you should also look at the MK6 Edition 35 GTI  which should be within your budget .

Offline GLIDN

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2018, 05:21:41 pm »
it comes down to what you want from your vehicle?

I have a mk5 GTI, mk6 GTI, MK6 R and Tiguan.
So I now know the ins and outs of all these platforms and done loads of R&D on my own cars.

Happy to take you out in any of them.
The R / S3 would be absolute last choice out of the 4. if you need 4wd? The Tiguan is a far better car overall. Even in handling + comfort.

From the collection the MK5 is for me, still the most fun car out of the lot. The least favourite id say is the 6R to the point I drive it out of necessity, not by choice. Yes it's silly fast and 12 second range (not flat 12) quarter mile car etc. Mid to late 3 second 0-100kph. It's not about the speed that intrigues me one little bit.
Instead it's about the overall experience and enjoyment I receive driving the cars.

The S3 is far more capable/enjoyable car compared to the R. But interior and boot are both smaller, which is the moot point.
So if set on a 6R or S3, get the S3 (2010 or newer) Pre 2010 had the BHZ engine which had a few issue, mainly the faulty injectors.

My mk6 GTi (Unitronic Stage 2 + Downpipe only) has managed a 13.9 Second quarter mile @ 103.6mph. To date a 5.4 second 0-100kph has been achieved. So these are actually a seriously quick car.

If you want/need or require anymore specific information? I'm more than happy to answer them. Shoot me a PM.
Yes I did tune all my own cars.

 
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 05:58:46 pm by GLIDN »
Top Secret Project
MK3 GTI 16v Tornado Red - under the knife soon
Mk3 12v VR6 Variant
MK5 GTI DSG - Unitronic Stage 1 | Stage 1 DSG | Unitronic Intake |Tuned by HSP Tuning |
MK6 GTI DSG -  Unitronic Stage 2 | Stage 2 DSG | Tuned by HSP Tuning

Offline digginz

  • Posts: 13
Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2018, 06:22:47 pm »
Thanks all for the info, has helped a lot.

I guess dilemma is, I currently have 2 cars: 

My "Daily" a 2005 e90 BMW 330i, is fantastic, good power RWD and fun to kick the back out every now and then.  It has sports suspension/steering and a few other luxuries. However it is a little rough around the edges, couple dings and paint fade, head liner sag (from previous owner, I've never bothered addressing these being a daily).  I'm selling this to my sister.

My other car is a 2001 Subaru WRX STI (weekend toy), full tune with turbo back exhaust, suspension upgrades etc. Its making around 211 kw atw, 412nm torque at 23 psi. Loads of fun to drive and great on some B roads.  However I've had this for the past 7 years and its time to let it go, recently I feel every time I drive it feels more like a chore just to give it a run, and the fact that I just don't use both cars enough.  So its time to let her go...  (Currently for sale)

So I'd like to just go down to one car, given myself a budget of around 23-25k.  I've test driven the S3, I really like the styling and power feels like my stock STI did.  However I found the steering a tiny bit numb, definitely not as engaging as the BMW.  This brings me to the mk6 gti - I've test driven a mk7 gti, but as they are going for around 26-27ish and you can get a mk6 around the 18-19k mark and I dont feel it warrants the extra 8k-ish price tag that the 7 has over it.  I would rather spend that cash on modding the car and making it my own.

So for my budget:  AWD S3/R or a FWD gti6 modded for the same money. 

GLIDN - I'll shoot you a PM with some more questions :-)

Offline schattenblau

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2018, 06:26:06 pm »
I think you should also look at the MK6 Edition 35 GTI  which should be within your budget .

there's 3 on tardme at the moment, 2x nz new, 1x juc, from $26k -30k.

plus a handful of mechanically similar juc mk5 gti pirellis from $10.5k - 22k.

Offline Naekyr

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2018, 09:06:48 pm »
For your budget, you could technically get a low mileage mk7 gti, you may not have enough money left for the tune + exhaust, but then just save for a while

If I had that budget I'd rather try to get mk7 over mk6 GTI (there is going to be a huge boost in power and speed on the MK7 post tune vs the MK6 due to that larger turbo) - in fact a tuned MK7 is going to be even faster than a MK6 with an upgraded KO4 turbo (stage 3 tune)

But if you need the mods now, then the mk6 gti is still a great car, I've spent about 8k on mods on mine and it looks, sounds and drives like a total different animal

I've still got this inkling to make my exhaust more free flowing - Hennie, any customers of yours made their mk6 gti straight pipe? Is it too loud?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 09:14:17 pm by Naekyr »

Offline schattenblau

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2018, 10:25:46 pm »
no longer legal to remove cats ?

in their golf gti roundup last year, autocar uk said the mk7 is clearly the better car but a mk5 gives you 80% of a mk7's ability for less than 20% of the money.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 11:01:15 pm by schattenblau »

Offline Naekyr

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 08:33:21 am »
Removing the cat is not legal but is not often detected during WOF that it's missing (mine has passed without issues)

Only way to guarantee a fail for a missing cat is if they started doing emissions testing at the back of the exhaust which they don't do

Currently my setup is a 3" de-cat downpipe going to a 2.75" non-resonated cat-back (the system is essentially straight until the rear muffler) and it's this muffler I'm considering cutting out or gutting


Offline GLIDN

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2018, 10:55:50 am »
Thanks all for the info, has helped a lot.

I guess dilemma is, I currently have 2 cars: 

My "Daily" a 2005 e90 BMW 330i, is fantastic, good power RWD and fun to kick the back out every now and then.  It has sports suspension/steering and a few other luxuries. However it is a little rough around the edges, couple dings and paint fade, head liner sag (from previous owner, I've never bothered addressing these being a daily).  I'm selling this to my sister.

My other car is a 2001 Subaru WRX STI (weekend toy), full tune with turbo back exhaust, suspension upgrades etc. Its making around 211 kw atw, 412nm torque at 23 psi. Loads of fun to drive and great on some B roads.  However I've had this for the past 7 years and its time to let it go, recently I feel every time I drive it feels more like a chore just to give it a run, and the fact that I just don't use both cars enough.  So its time to let her go...  (Currently for sale)

So I'd like to just go down to one car, given myself a budget of around 23-25k.  I've test driven the S3, I really like the styling and power feels like my stock STI did.  However I found the steering a tiny bit numb, definitely not as engaging as the BMW.  This brings me to the mk6 gti - I've test driven a mk7 gti, but as they are going for around 26-27ish and you can get a mk6 around the 18-19k mark and I dont feel it warrants the extra 8k-ish price tag that the 7 has over it.  I would rather spend that cash on modding the car and making it my own.

So for my budget:  AWD S3/R or a FWD gti6 modded for the same money. 

GLIDN - I'll shoot you a PM with some more questions :-)

Firstly forget about comparing a RWD steering feel/feedback to a FWD car. It's never going to happen.
If you want feedback like that, go buy a Renault Megane RS (or whatever they are called)

A Stage 2HPFP MK5 GTI and Stage 2 MK6 gti will eat your Subaru for breakfast (rolling race). My tiguan is currently at 184kw @ the engine (140kw @ wheels) and it's heavier than my brothers STI Forester 2.5 (215kw @ Wheels). Until 80kph we are neck and neck in the acceleration department. Then when his turbo finally kicks in it's still not that much faster.

On the other hand, my mk6 gti makes my tiguan look slow in the accelation department.

If you're stretching to a mk7 territory budget? I'd recommend the mk7 gti. Downpipe and tune take these to 330-340HP.
On the mk6 platform - I'd take the GTI > R
On the mk7 platform - i'd take the R > GTI

The Audi S3 needs minor changes to make it more enjoyable, out the box it's better than the golf R. But still numb feeling.
Best part is getting the exact same car with almost $5000-10,000 price range cheaper than the golf R.

For your budget, you could technically get a low mileage mk7 gti, you may not have enough money left for the tune + exhaust, but then just save for a while

If I had that budget I'd rather try to get mk7 over mk6 GTI (there is going to be a huge boost in power and speed on the MK7 post tune vs the MK6 due to that larger turbo) - in fact a tuned MK7 is going to be even faster than a MK6 with an upgraded KO4 turbo (stage 3 tune)

But if you need the mods now, then the mk6 gti is still a great car, I've spent about 8k on mods on mine and it looks, sounds and drives like a total different animal

I've still got this inkling to make my exhaust more free flowing - Hennie, any customers of yours made their mk6 gti straight pipe? Is it too loud?

As Naekyr mentioned about mk7 is on point.

Regarding the Stage 3 = K04 ? There is only one company that calls it that - which is stupid
Universally Stage 3 on the VW world applies to big turbo (k04 is not a big turbo)

Wow - that much already? with that budget set? I can easily build a K04 mk6 GTI with all bolt ons. making it a 287kw car.

Regarding the exhaust question - your existing exhaust is the part that lets the car down the most.
There are a few exhaust options which sound amazing and are able to give you the best of both worlds.

Straight pipe is never recommended - it simply sound horrible.
At least that's my take on it.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 11:31:26 am by GLIDN »
Top Secret Project
MK3 GTI 16v Tornado Red - under the knife soon
Mk3 12v VR6 Variant
MK5 GTI DSG - Unitronic Stage 1 | Stage 1 DSG | Unitronic Intake |Tuned by HSP Tuning |
MK6 GTI DSG -  Unitronic Stage 2 | Stage 2 DSG | Tuned by HSP Tuning

Offline Naekyr

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 11:43:28 am »
8k was not all performance, spent quite a bit fitting new wheels and tyres and also into detailing (the car has a ceramic coating on almost the entire exterior) and installing new electronics that the car didn't have before

As for the exhaust, I'd like to hear more about the other exhaust options to give me the sound I want - PM me if you like, I can give you my number if you want to call me?

This is what my car currently sounds like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_ut_9y049A

This is what I want it to sound like (or similar to this)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTkokQHw7ek

« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 11:47:14 am by Naekyr »

Offline GLIDN

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2018, 09:39:45 am »
those are golf R exhaust. Neither which sounds like the mk6 gti.
On a side note, even retuning the vehicle can make the exact same exhaust sound much better or worse.

Verified again by re-tuning a customers 2009 Audi S4 yesterday, which was "custom dyno tuned".
Not only is all the raspiness in his exhaust gone now, his car has a much-much better air fuel ratio (extremely important). The car runs more efficiently and water + oil temps are much lower now too. Will be able to provide real world data via race track info in a few weeks also.

I'll have my mk6 for approx. 2 more weeks. Then it's off to its new home. I'm more than happy to take you for a drive in mine so you can hear the difference simply an exhaust makes.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 09:45:39 am by GLIDN »
Top Secret Project
MK3 GTI 16v Tornado Red - under the knife soon
Mk3 12v VR6 Variant
MK5 GTI DSG - Unitronic Stage 1 | Stage 1 DSG | Unitronic Intake |Tuned by HSP Tuning |
MK6 GTI DSG -  Unitronic Stage 2 | Stage 2 DSG | Tuned by HSP Tuning

Offline Filx

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2018, 09:44:29 am »
it comes down to what you want from your vehicle?

I have a mk5 GTI, mk6 GTI, MK6 R and Tiguan.
So I now know the ins and outs of all these platforms and done loads of R&D on my own cars.

The least favourite id say is the 6R to the point I drive it out of necessity, not by choice. Yes it's silly fast and 12 second quarter mile car etc. Mid to late 3 second 0-100kph.

Sorry for the thread hijack but got some picks, clips of this R in action and the time slips?
FAIL - First Attempt In Learning

Offline GLIDN

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2018, 09:49:00 am »
Sorry for the thread hijack but got some picks, clips of this R in action and the time slips?

I'll dig them out but doubt they will still have any viable data on them. Due to the thermal paper they use at Meremere.

However I go to race, not take videos.
Even stock mk7R's (yes I know they are a different car) does a 13.59-13.69 consistently.
Top Secret Project
MK3 GTI 16v Tornado Red - under the knife soon
Mk3 12v VR6 Variant
MK5 GTI DSG - Unitronic Stage 1 | Stage 1 DSG | Unitronic Intake |Tuned by HSP Tuning |
MK6 GTI DSG -  Unitronic Stage 2 | Stage 2 DSG | Tuned by HSP Tuning

Offline digginz

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2018, 10:47:35 am »
Thanks all for the info!

I'm a proud new owner of a mk6 gti!  Hope to pick it up today/tomorrow.

Gonna book it in to get the Timing tensioner/chain replaced with the updated one, just for peace of mind.

Also what is a good oil to use for these Engines? I've read castrol 5w30, just wondering what everyone here uses.

Offline The Red Warrior

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Re: Tuned GTI mk6 or stock R/S3
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2018, 03:56:02 pm »
Congrats on your new car!

I’m using Motul Specific in mine (mk5 GTI)