1.4 tsi (CVAD) cam locking tool.

Started by gtyler, June 03, 2021, 05:19:31 PM

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gtyler

Hi all, Overhauled my golf mk6 1.4TSI but stuck with the cam timing. Does anyone have the special tools (cam locking plate and crank locking bolt I can borrow please? I am in Cambridge, but could pick up in Auckland or Hamilton. Other places I arrange postage?
Regards,
George

mmmmmm5


gtyler

Thanks, I did hire one,  and have done it. A bit of a battle, could not get the holding tool to slide in and out easily like in the videos. but I started with the toll in but just the tension on the chain caused by the valve springs makes it tight to get out.
  I have done a video of the result with all new timing components and I had concerns about the slack. As the crank it turned compression makes it "bounce" back in one position. if you slow the video down, you can see the tensioner goes back all the way, and at this point the chain is as slack as it can be at this time. It could actually JUMP TEETH! even with all new tensioner, chain, chain wheels and guides, etc. This kit has updated chain tensioner according to the seller, the number is different but it looks the same.

https://youtu.be/dK-PVB5XjHw
https://youtu.be/TZqgx4g1pmA

Worms

That tensioner isn't working - it's supposed to have a rachet built in, so it can only come out, and not return in.

gtyler

Quote from: mmmmmm5 on June 05, 2021, 05:57:38 PM
contact all euro. hire the tools
Quote from: Worms on June 14, 2021, 01:39:16 PM
That tensioner isn't working - it's supposed to have a rachet built in, so it can only come out, and not return in.


That is what I would expect, every engine I have overhauled in my 70 years with a timing chain had a ratchet, I have spent days looking for a picture on internet that showed one with a ratchet, can't find one. Phoned Ebbet VW spares, they say "the upgraded parts often look the same, sent me a picture of the new one, identical, including number, to the one I took out!

gtyler

#5
Quote from: Worms on June 14, 2021, 01:39:16 PM
That tensioner isn't working - it's supposed to have a rachet built in, so it can only come out, and not return in.

I have contacted VW, searched for days on internet. Still can't find a tensioner with a ratchet for this CAVD motor. Where did you get one from if I may ask please?
This is what VW tell me is the latest.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lwEaBYa8Ud0_SY0pt63NEcVnzzMVmCSl/view?usp=sharing

gtyler

Quote from: Worms on June 14, 2021, 01:39:16 PM
That tensioner isn't working - it's supposed to have a rachet built in, so it can only come out, and not return in.
this video is of replacement, new on is the same number as mine.
https://youtu.be/ecKcHRZor24?t=784

Worms

Concerning!

TBH, Ive not found one either!.... I was assuming it was like the 2.0 tsi ones (that also destroy themselves!) The 2.0 ones look similar, but with an external rachet on the end... Other models had one built into the side.

Im not surprised they STILL have issues, if thats how they function! I'd heard about manual trans cars slipping the chain, after being left in gear on inclines and tension being applied to the chain, backwards.

If that were mine, and I was confident it was "correct", I'd be looking to fit a limiting device, to reduce the amount of slack it was possible to create.

First though, by chance; does the outer timing cover limit the travel, once fitted???


gtyler

Quote from: Worms on June 15, 2021, 06:53:48 PM
Concerning!

TBH, Ive not found one either!.... I was assuming it was like the 2.0 tsi ones (that also destroy themselves!) The 2.0 ones look similar, but with an external rachet on the end... Other models had one built into the side.

Im not surprised they STILL have issues, if thats how they function! I'd heard about manual trans cars slipping the chain, after being left in gear on inclines and tension being applied to the chain, backwards.

If that were mine, and I was confident it was "correct", I'd be looking to fit a limiting device, to reduce the amount of slack it was possible to create.

First though, by chance; does the outer timing cover limit the travel, once fitted???

No, the cover does not limit travel as far as I can see. I have made a collar to fit over the tensioner piston to limit travel but when the chain wears it will have to be checked again! I am actually shocked that VW would do this, but why has nobody else seen no ratchet as a problem?

80 Vert

It's entirely possible those tensioners are tensioned by oil pressure that cannot return or bleed away.
The 1.8T and VR6 engines have such tensioners on their chains.
2010 T5 Transporter TDI  Tuned by Superior Tuning NZ
2003 Jetta Coupe soon to be R36TT
1991 Golf GTI 2.0 TSI swapped
1963 Type 34 Karmann Ghia, turbo 2.0
1990 Porsche 964 911 Carrera 4
1980 1303 Beetle vert, under restoration

gtyler

Do you know where the non return valve was in the VR6?

80 Vert

2010 T5 Transporter TDI  Tuned by Superior Tuning NZ
2003 Jetta Coupe soon to be R36TT
1991 Golf GTI 2.0 TSI swapped
1963 Type 34 Karmann Ghia, turbo 2.0
1990 Porsche 964 911 Carrera 4
1980 1303 Beetle vert, under restoration

gtyler

Quote from: 80 Vert on June 18, 2021, 07:59:42 PM
In the tensioner

Ok, found the answer!
VW: "Hi George, apologies for the delay.
I can confirm this tensioner does not have the ratchet type system on it but is tensioned instead by an internal spring and engine oil pressure supplied via the hole on the reverse of the tensioner.

Many thanks for your enquiry."

Me: "Subject: RE: Volkswagen Tensioner

Thanks. Have a look at this video.  https://youtu.be/TZqgx4g1pmA , this is my car with new parts. Chain can get really slack if the engine turns backwards, even for a fraction of a turn. Engine bounces on compression, and this is enough to make the chain jump a tooth! Do you see this with every engine you guys work on?
    Apart from this, this engine is stunningly  beautiful! I wondered what the design philosophy behind leaving the ratchet out was? Any idea?"

VW: "Morning George, we?re not really in a place to comment as we don?t design the engine or components here, however if there is a product fault (ie percentage of failures) we know Volkswagen would have recalled the part, and this is definitely not the case.
Part of the reason for the chain slack in your video will be because there is no oil pressure behind the tensioner."

Yes, is is "because there is no oil pressure", I still think it is a dangerous situation. Just as well they don't see any failures due to chain skipping teeth!



Worms

That is ridiculous!

1.4s with manual trans have been known to fail after people parked on a hill, and loaded the engine backwards while parked - the tensioner then gets pressed in by the load and jumps teeth on start up.....

You can get a manual chain tensioner for VR6's too... possibly related to issues in high performance units???

I'd be adding "something" to limit the inwards movement, personally.

gtyler

I made a spacer, limits travel but It needs to be done properly. I wonder about similar engines, like the mazda I saw. we need a class action to make them take notice, i bet they tell everyone there are no failures!