200 engine code ?

Started by gravel, June 04, 2007, 07:39:35 PM

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gravel

hi there could any one help me with an engine code ? KG 015 855  and are there certain engines to use for hi performance than others eg: stronger rods , blocks , crank are there hi flow heads bigger valves etc
any help would be welcome . Im looking at using scat rods im just unsure what brand of pistons are the best to use once again any help is appreciated cheers

urq20v

The KG was the normal 10 valve engine used in NZ for most of the 200 turbo quattros up to about 1987.It is factory quoted at 182bhp.The very basic Hitachi ECU (MAC05) and Bosch CIS fuel injection limit the maximum power achievable with mods to around 240bhp.(usually less!).
There are certainly plenty of after market performance parts availabe for the 10v engine to manage over 500bhp,but at a price.Go to www.034motorsport.com and have a look there.
What are you intending to do with the engine?For all out power you would be better to go to a 20v engine,3b,rr,aby,aan or adu.These engine are much easier to modify,but of course cost a lot more.

BB

There is only one word to describe a KG motor these days, old.
The KG is to be found in most NZ 200s and they are worth peanuts unless you want to buy a new set of pistons and do up the head and turbo, then that would cost moonbeams. As Rex says go 20v if you have to have a 5 pot motor these days.
I found a 200 auto with a good smoke free motor thats boosts well for $100 it had a dud fuel pump and was dereged which is happening to lots of them now. The hardest bits to get for good money is the rear suspension links and bushes for the quattros now. All the secondhand stuff is worn out and new is almost unavailable at reasonable money.
The end is nigh, but the end of what is the question?

gravel

thanks for the info, the motors goin into an a2 replica so id like to stick to the 10v so it looks right in the engine bay, the guy whos building the motor has a lot of experience with competition audis overseas i just have to supply the parts hes doing the rebuild and machining in return for me building his workshop.
the reason i was asking about the blocks and stuff was if there is a better block to use id look around for one ,hes going to give me a parts list but if i cant find what he wants id like to be able to offer him some alternatives by the way thanks for the web site. im using the 200 to do a gravel hill climb/autocross in danevirke on sunday so ive pulled the seats (front and back) out of the old girl they are black leather and are in good nick theirs a seam in the drivers seat that come apart about 2 inchs so if any one wants them they can have them for $50 or il give them to a mate to turn into lounge chairs (better than dumping them) i might put a half cage in the old girl so i can get used to driving 4wd on the gravel rather than risking the a2 trying to learn , ive only competed in rear wheel drive cars so i think il have a bit to learn still should be fun even if its not fast itl sound good cheers

urq20v

For a replica A2,you probably only need 300bhp or so max.Standard pistons and rods will be OK for that level of power and they are cheap to replace if something does go wrong.Improved fueling can be achieved by fitting the CIS system from a V8 Mercedes.Just block off the three spare fuel delivery outlets.I have not tried this myself,but it is an option that is used on 5 pot 10v engines to overcome the limited fueling problems of the Bosch CIS.If you can find a Pierburg mechanical CSI system which Audi usedi on 10v rally engines,that would be the way to go.Unlike the Bosch CIS,the Pierburg system was adjustable.Search the web,they do come up for sale occasionally.Other than that fit EFI,but it wont look standard.

BB

Id love to see some pics of your 200 rallying ;D
The problem with the 200s now is the body's flex so much  :P and the suspension gets so worn and loose and bouncy. Not to mention having a whole heap of weight ahead of the front drive line.
They were used to good effect on the African stages of the world rallys though and i love the look of them roaring over that dust and sand ;) I have one myself and I really like it but I do find its handling a little tricky.
The end is nigh, but the end of what is the question?

John Stone

A KG isn't far off the WR motor, same block, crank, pistons, cylinder head, valves. Cam is different as is the sump - you'll have to give it the Beth Heke treatment to clear the sub-frame, and the thermostat housing needs swapping too.

John
86 WR
04 A3
05 V50T5

gravel

hi guys thanks for the info i was going to run a linkplus i have and fit the injectors down low in the manifold  with a custom fuel rail , i noticed the a2 ran a modified intake manifold looks nothing like the 200 ones i have any one know what they are off ? . i brought a wr motor in bits a while ago so il give my mate that to rebiuld he muttered something about putting bigger valves in he wants to put steel rods and forged pistons in so if i want to go stupid later the bottom end will be able to cope, hes making a steel flywheel for it as well hes got two years to do it because itl take me that long to get the car ready
in the meantime il thrash the 200 to get a bit of experience  when i put some standard front springs in i notice someone had put konis in it front and back and they are in good nick which is a bonus .
im not sure how the 4wd to 2wd is suposed to work ive turned the switch but she dosent want to come out of 4wd is there any tricks ? i asume 4wd is for wet or loose surfaces only and 2wd for dry i was a bit worried about driving on dry tarmac in 4wd or is it ok ? , once again thanks for the valuable info its very much appreciated, il try to get some pics up on mon if i dont make a dick of myself cheers

OOOO

Quote from: gravel on June 06, 2007, 07:10:39 PM
im not sure how the 4wd to 2wd is suposed to work ive turned the switch but she dosent want to come out of 4wd is there any tricks ? i asume 4wd is for wet or loose surfaces only and 2wd for dry i was a bit worried about driving on dry tarmac in 4wd or is it ok ? , once again thanks for the valuable info its very much appreciated, il try to get some pics up on mon if i dont make a dick of myself cheers

The 4WD is permanent with the switches you refer to for locking the centre and rear diffs when traction is an issue.
2014 Audi A8 4.2TDI
2013 VW Golf 2.0TDI
2009 Audi A3 quattro

John Stone

Quote from: gravel on June 06, 2007, 07:10:39 PM
im not sure how the 4wd to 2wd is suposed to work ive turned the switch but she dosent want to come out of 4wd is there any tricks ? i asume 4wd is for wet or loose surfaces only and 2wd for dry i was a bit worried about driving on dry tarmac in 4wd or is it ok ? , once again thanks for the valuable info its very much appreciated, il try to get some pics up on mon if i dont make a dick of myself cheers
It's not good to drive with the diffs locked on the tarmac. Not only bad for the tyre wear, but will give the diff a hard time too, even in the wet. If you're having trouble disengaging them, put one side of the car on a loose surface and give it a squirt. I've never had mine stick on, although they sometimes take a few metres to release.
Not sure where the inlet manifold comes from, probably a dedicated m/sport fit.
As to big valves, Tresser built WR motors with V8 metering heads and big valves and were optioned to 400 bhp? (only read of this, don't have any hard data).
Fuel delivery is ultimately the hurdle to a big improvement in bhp, as URQ20V has noted, the rally car injection set up "the Pierburg system was adjustable" goes along way to solving poor fuel delivery under boost - your number one enemy.

John
86 WR
04 A3
05 V50T5

BB

Yes to try and make it even clearer the audis (as are most 4 wheel drives) are permanent 4 wheel drive, but if you get on ice say and try to take off one wheel will start to just spin as there are no diff locks or limited slip feature. You then go ok im stuck so you switch on the centre diff lock this will make one rear wheel and one front wheel (either on same side or opposites) spin at the same speed to try and make progress. If you still dont move then you switch to the last setting which locks the rear diff meaning that now both rear wheels and one front wheel will spin and scrabble for traction. its usually enough ;)
If you are driving up a icy road you can switch the locks on a slowish speed on the run to predict a slippery patch up ahead, but it pays to turn it off again if you get either good traction surfaces and corners as they really bind up trying to corner with the diffs locked.
In rallying, they only had the diffs locked on very slippery sufaces and they had so much power going through all the wheels were spinning and scrabbling constantly. They are actually very tricky to drive like this.
I just leave both locks off always. The diff locks were intended for country's with ice and snow not really gravel. You get masses more traction as a four wheel drive even with unlocked diffs.
i dream of a time when i can show off my diff locks actually helping me :P The much hated spinner has had the pleasure of locking his and driving out of a bogged in feild where every other car including several jap 4x4s without diff locks got stuck.   
The end is nigh, but the end of what is the question?

gravel

cool that dose clear things up a whole lot so the when the lights come on they are showing you which diffs are locked not which wheels are driving that makes a lot more sense (when its pointed out to you)
ill have a play at the hill climb with it to see what its like cheers

BB

Just don't try to go round any corners with it locked, either of them. It feels and sounds awful and probibly is awful to the car.
The end is nigh, but the end of what is the question?

OOOO

Not too sure about the centre diff but I remember that the rear diff should only be locked at 0 to low speeds for traction in snow/ice. It is supposed to be disengaged once you are underway.
2014 Audi A8 4.2TDI
2013 VW Golf 2.0TDI
2009 Audi A3 quattro

urq20v

Interestingly,in USA autocross racing,it is generally accepted that having the difflocks engaged in the older Audi,gives the best results.Apparently it looks terrible from the outside,but gives faster times. ???

John Stone

Quote from: urq20v on June 07, 2007, 10:09:20 PM
Interestingly,in USA autocross racing
Any links to this Rex?

John
86 WR
04 A3
05 V50T5

urq20v

John,there was an extended discussion on Audifans.com regarding using the diff locks quite some time ago,and the outcome was the fastest times were achieved with the locks,or lock,on.I think the main posters were SJ and Audidudi.Both were active in old school Audis in Autocross at that time.I will trawl thru the Audifans archives and see what I can find.

BB

Autocross would be fine tho as its grass and mud the wheels would be able to slip and spin instead of binding up.
The end is nigh, but the end of what is the question?

RS ZWEI

Quote from: BB on June 08, 2007, 08:50:06 AM
Autocross would be fine tho as its grass and mud the wheels would be able to slip and spin instead of binding up.

I dont Autocross in the States is the same as the Autocross we have here. I think in the States its classed as clubmans racing.

1980 VW Golf GTI Track Car
1995 Audi RS2
2003 Mini Cooper S (Written off - rear ended)
2005 Mini Cooper S
2006 Skoda Octavia vRS Combi
2009 Renault Megane 230 R26 (Written off - rear ended)
2013 Renault Megane RS265 Redbull RB8

gravel

hi can you disconect the font locker so that only the rear locks at least that way it should turn in and the locked rear end should help the car to oversteer a bit as the event im doing is a short hill climb with tight bends on gravel . checked the boost on the old girl and it was pulling 12psi so id say the boy racers who owned it must have been playn with it but ive backed it off a bit (10psi) so itl last a bit longer we also cut off the muffler so it just runs a straight two and a half inch pipe its still reasonably quiet. amazing what a turbo does but it sounds sweet . i wouldnt drive it on the street like it but itl be ok for the hill climb if you have any ideas as to locking the rear only ill check tomorrow before i head up to dannevirke have a good weekend guys n ill let you know how i get on thanks for your help