1.6L GTI Motor

Started by Angle, September 19, 2007, 07:12:27 PM

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Angle

I tried to order a complete set of coolant hoses and was told by the supplier that they won't fit the Heron head.  :-[ I'm having a hard time finding a good resource for information on the Heron motor. A point in the right direction would be great. (Books or the web)

RS ZWEI

Where did you try and order from?
1980 VW Golf GTI Track Car
1995 Audi RS2
2003 Mini Cooper S (Written off - rear ended)
2005 Mini Cooper S
2006 Skoda Octavia vRS Combi
2009 Renault Megane 230 R26 (Written off - rear ended)
2013 Renault Megane RS265 Redbull RB8

BB

The only hose that will be differnt will be the top hose, as the 1.8 has the outlet on the other side in the middle kinda.
Are you going to keep your car heron head? I think they are probibly good like that its just expencive to buy pistons to bore them and raise the compression. Worth it if you do tho.
The end is nigh, but the end of what is the question?

Angle

#3
GB 666 - I placed my order with Black Forest Industries. The guys there were aware of the Heron head engine (it's a bit of a legend in the US), and stated the hoses wouldn't work for the Heron head.

BB - Yes, I'll keep the Heron head, and plan on buying your engine 8). Found some pistons online for roughly $650 NZD + shipping for a set of four up to 80.5mm bore.Just need to get through the next few steps. If I keep finding more parts are required to get this thing on the road, I'll be looking at Christmas before I can pick it up from you.

Where can I get more books or info on the engine ???

RS ZWEI

Quote from: AngleBox on September 19, 2007, 11:39:26 PM
GB 666 - I placed my order with Black Forest Industries. The guys there were aware of the Heron head engine (it's a bit of a legend in the US), and stated the hoses wouldn't work for the Heron head.



Ring Qualitat (or any NZ VW agent/specialist) for the coolant hoses.


1980 VW Golf GTI Track Car
1995 Audi RS2
2003 Mini Cooper S (Written off - rear ended)
2005 Mini Cooper S
2006 Skoda Octavia vRS Combi
2009 Renault Megane 230 R26 (Written off - rear ended)
2013 Renault Megane RS265 Redbull RB8

robh

Is there a Bentley Manual for the mark 1?  they have a lot of good stuff in them.

I think Nigel at vwspares gets the Bentley manuals in?
Daily Driver - VW Touareg V8 TDI 2012 "towing beast"
Too Many Cars - Lotus Elise S 2013 "tangerine dream"
Project Car - Golf VR6 Turbo "built not bought"
Wifes - Audi S4 Avant 2012 "I want a white car that sounds nice"

robh

you could also try www.manuals.co.nz they do mainly Haynes, but there are others they do as well
Daily Driver - VW Touareg V8 TDI 2012 "towing beast"
Too Many Cars - Lotus Elise S 2013 "tangerine dream"
Project Car - Golf VR6 Turbo "built not bought"
Wifes - Audi S4 Avant 2012 "I want a white car that sounds nice"

BB

Like I say the only hose that will be different will be the top hose so if the price is cheap enough get that set and just get a new top hose from somewhere.
Glad your sticking with the heron head i like them as well, Well my old engine went real well when it had the ross race pistons block instead of the standard 1.6 block which it has now.
The end is nigh, but the end of what is the question?

vwrally

There are only really two books that I know of One is by Per Schroder and the other by Greg Raven, The Greg Raven book is more applicable to the Heron Head

The other good book for general motor work id Four Stroke Performance tuning by a guy called Graham Bell

What do yopu want to do with the car you can make a very good motor using the 1.6 with standard valves and near standard ports.

Just bump the compression and tidy the first 50mm behind the valve face, everything does need to be balanced etc to get the most from them but they make a very good motor. They love compression and in full race trim run as much as 14:1 I would settle for 11:1 and you should still be able to use pump gas if everything is done well.

I do have some stuff on these motors somewhere but they are a bit hard to get bits for now especially true high performance parts. I will tyry to find my bits and pieces to send to you

I would consider putting the motor in a box in the corner and doing the 2ltr conversion, much cheaper and easier to get bits for.

Angle

#9
Quote from: vwrally on September 20, 2007, 12:51:45 PM
There are only really two books that I know of One is by Per Schroder and the other by Greg Raven, The Greg Raven book is more applicable to the Heron Head

The other good book for general motor work id Four Stroke Performance tuning by a guy called Graham Bell [edited]  I will tyry to find my bits and pieces to send to you [edited] I would consider putting the motor in a box in the corner and doing the 2ltr conversion, much cheaper and easier to get bits for.

I originally thought about a 2 liter conversion, but decided against it. I like the idea of having a mildly worked Heron motor. In terms of bang for the buck, it trails behind, but for the "X factor" of having one in, it's worth it for me. I'd like to find out a bit more regarding ITB and how they work with injector ports put in the manifold for them, so hopefully the books you've noted will shed some light.

Any help with bits and pieces is HUGELY appreciated. I'll stop in Tech Books at lunch tomorrow and look these guys up. I'll also get in touch with the guys down south I bought my suspension book from. They deal in out of print automotive books. Thanks for the heads up.

bsting

Got a Per Schroeder book
'Volkswagen Sport Tuning for Street and Competition'

Covers mk1s to mk3s and Scirocco/Corrado/Jetta/Passat from that era

Great book.

vwrally

Quote from: bsting on September 20, 2007, 07:39:30 PM
Got a Per Schroeder book
'Volkswagen Sport Tuning for Street and Competition'

Covers mk1s to mk3s and Scirocco/Corrado/Jetta/Passat from that era

Great book.


I would reccomend both books but the Raven book probably has more on the Heron Head, it is less americanised than the Schroder book. Ther are also some good books ex germany (in german unfortunately)

I would do some serious reading and decide what you were hoping to achieve before getting into ITBs. There is a lot you can do before this point

The Bell book also has quite a few references to early Golf motors and Heron heads in general

If you are looking for parts I would highly recomend Bill at www.bildon.com, good pricing good service and great knowledge.i.e forged pistons for $US 549 a set for the 1.6 heron motor (not silly freight costs either) If what you need isnt on his website drop him an email or give him a call, he isnt easy to get a hold of but worth it when you do


Angle

Thanks for the advice guys. It has been appreciated.

Angle


typ53

The Haynes 'Golf Gti Performance Manual' by Tim Stiles (of TSR Performance) is a good book too - lots of proven stuff in there for mk1-3 or 4, with UK ideas so the cars are similar to our spec cars, and good easy mods with practical advice as well as some of the more involved swaps.

ISBN 1 84425 101 2

Some suggestions from it for the 1600 MK1 are relatively simple things like adding a MK2 throttle body, larger k-jet air-flow meter (from a volvo or similar) and a VW 16v or Audi rising rate warm-up regulator which are easy to do and the parts are usually to be found at Pick-a-part or similar.

The Fleet:
Orange Roughy:'90 16v Corrado
'89 Carrera 4. 
'12 330d Touring
Still trying to figure out how to get 'em all to fit in a single garage....

Angle

Is the 1.6L heron block identical to the 1.7L block found in the US?

johnp

Quote from: AngleBox on October 10, 2007, 03:59:36 PM
Is the 1.6L heron block identical to the 1.7L block found in the US?

Yes the block is the same, but the pistons and crank are not.
They were a low compression engine with dished pistons (not as dished as the 1.6 GTI) and combustion chambers in the head.
There were a few of them around here too as they appeared in a few Jap imports.
If you want one I may know where one is here in Auckland for you.

Angle

#18
Thank you. That was question was aimed more towards understanding how big an over-bore the block will take. Can the 1.6L motor be stroked as well?

BB

My 1.6 motor was apparently nearly 2l but had the original crank. I haven't heard of any stroked ones. Johnp will have some real answers no doubt as to the max boring and stroking.
The end is nigh, but the end of what is the question?