Hi chaps I have ditched my race motor as you know and have now got a ABF block thanks to the awsum guys at Platnuim.
I am using my old box and clutch for now as it was all new and ok, will fit the mk3 cable shift box later.
I have fitted a new cambelt and tentioner..... ouch the tensioner was $330 :o :o I got it for $170 from Partmaster god bless them.
The crank sensor wire was all cracked and broken but i luckily had one that Bsting had given me ;) thanks Bsting.
Ok now i need to know a few things
1 Does the ECU i have have the immobilizer in it? Its a Siemens 037 906 024 ae or maybe its a 5wp4 167. I hope it dosen't have the immobilizer or I'm stuffed i think :P
2 How do i power up the ecu? i have split the loom down to the wires that come from the ECU and go to the engine. I have been very careful to leave the wires that go up to the dash and hopefully the VagCom plug. I am not fitting a mk 3 dash so i dont really need the wires but i may fit one later.
I will use my existing loom to feed the oil light, temp.... is that all?
I will use a mk 3 alt so i got to work that out as well :P
3 does anybody know how to make the crank water pump and alt pulleys all work? As i dont have A/C or P/S I have a real problem getting this to all work. i know i just have to find the right link to somebody who has done it on VW vortex or something, any help pointing me in the right direction would be greatly received.
according to this guy (see link), post 1993 you will have the immobiliser, and your ecu was in 1995 cars
I guess you have seen this guide before?
http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133418&highlight=abf+ecu
The guy who runs www.s2central.net can, I think, recode the equivalent audi ecus to delete the immobiliser. I'm guessing he could do the same to the VW digifant version, but it would mean sending the ecu to the UK
Here is another option:
http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169853&highlight=abf+ecu
http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168741&highlight=abf+ecu
Are you running the ABF fuel injection or do you just have the block and running carbs or is it a hybrid system?
Quote from: AngleBox on July 25, 2008, 12:09:11 PM
Are you running the ABF fuel injection or do you just have the block and running carbs or is it a hybrid system?
sounds like he wants to use the digifant ecu ............
It will have an IMMO, if you can get the key reader and the key you will be sweet. Otherwise you may have to wire in the scan port so that a key can be coded to the ECU, bit more stuffing around but perfectly doable.
Would be sweet to run it on carbs
Why would you want to loose your driveability doing that?
Injection is the way to fly.
You wouldnt loose driveability
Cold mornings, no chokes- hmm no thanks. Have had many aircooled VW's on carbs, injection much better.
Carbs have their place but not on a modern VW engine, just my opinion though ;)
I want the EFI from the mk3 to run anglebox.
It looks pretty easy to connect the hoses to the fuel rail and I will be able to use the origonal k-jet mk 1 fuel pump with a regulator. Will the reg on the rail thats already there be enough to control the extra pressure a k-jet has?
I doubt i will be able to get the key and reader :P ill ask but i dont think so and the rest of what you say maybe i need to pay somebody to do ???
do they call this digifant in the mk3 as well?
thanks alot from the start to all who give me advice and links to site where I can get the info i need. I know this is a fairly straight forward swap but it is still quite a new thing to me.
Why would i want to spend an extra thousand dollars to put it on some carbs ::) ::)
The regulator will have a set pressure so exess fuel should be bypassed.
The key reader and control box from a simmilar year car (engine year)
will work fine, you need the ign, key reader and control box.
Provided you wire up your diagnostic port you will be able to code a key with vag-com.
The MK3 IMMO isn't in the cluster like a MK4 so its simpler to adapt to older cars.
Should make a nice combo for you.
Ok thanks vert I will hunt down these parts. i am pretty sure i will still have the Diagnostic port I have been very careful to sort the loom and keep any plugs that were part of the ecu, i totally want to be able to use Vag com to scan it.
That will be very cool. I'd leave the ECU port under the drip tray and make a rubber bit to cover it all up with. I guess you could always put it under the dash as well.
Ill probibly put it where they have them in the mk3s ;) make it kind of familiar to people who work on them. I may fit a mk 3 dash and gauges one day as the parts will be as good as free. or maybe i will just fit the gauges and keep the origional dash if that fits at all?
Hidden behind a panel next to the ash tray? ;) Looking forward to hear how it works. I think you'll need to get a different set of pulleys as well or is this one already less A/C, power steering, etc?
Different pulleys needed, or custom make something. Sure you could use pulleys etc from MK2 engine to make it all work.
Quote from: Michael on July 25, 2008, 05:29:17 PM
Would be sweet to run it on carbs
Carbs are for old school aussie muscle cars and people that like carrying around a box of jets for different seasons ;)
Great project Jem - keep us fully updated! Would love to see some pics as you go along as well.
told ya im no good with vag stuff buddy... ;)
its gonna be a minter mate...
and yea.... carbs are outdated.... ITBS is where its at!
Lets forget about the carbs. :)
Yes the pulleys, as mentioned I'm hoping some genius (who is way better at searching than me)is going to magically show me a pic, and instructions of exactly what I need to do, basically what has been done before. i can easy enough make some brackets and stuff but in the end its been done before and I wanna see somebody else's sweat go into make mine easy. ;D There are far cleverer mechanics out there than me.
So come on chaps I will deposit $20 into the online account of anybody who provides the best system info for this.
Save your money Jem and scan VW Vortex or Club GTI. It'll be there. S has just come back from Japan, or I'd go for a bit of a look for you.
There is a kit you can buy for mega dollars :P on VW vortex. i wont be doing that.
i have been told there is a bracket and alternator that is fitted to a mk3 that has no a/c but that they are quite rare.
Is anybody wreaking a mk3 with no A/c?
Quote from: BB on July 26, 2008, 11:44:13 AM
There is a kit you can buy for mega dollars :P on VW vortex. i wont be doing that.
i have been told there is a bracket and alternator that is fitted to a mk3 that has no a/c but that they are quite rare.
Is anybody wreaking a mk3 with no A/c?
No, not a kit. Guys do lots of swaps and if you posted up a question (after you searched) you'd find an answer. There are several posts on ABF swaps.
Yes i have found a few but none that really help me surprisingly. thats why i will happily pay $20 and hopefully get a bit of help ;) its not much but somebody might think its good to win it.
Worked on a mk3 with no aircon today and that is the system you want to run. Funny how one turns up the next day after you have just been talking about one. Still runs a ribbed belt but the water pump has a smooth pulley and the belt runs on the back side when it runs over the water pump. Very much like a VR6 arrangement. There is a seperate belt that runs the power steering so the ribbed belt only runs the alternator and water pump. PERFECT !! I have the alternator to fit that arrangement but not the bracket to suit. It would be worth calling Euroline for just the bracket and water pump pulley as the alternator sits low and would clear the inlet manifold of the ABF. That way you get to keep the excellent ribbed belt and not have to go back to vee belts.As for the Immoblizer, I swaped a bad (first one ever )ecu in another MK3 today also and had to extract the pin code to be able to code the key. I thought the tacho was holding the pin but I will remove a speedo next week and see if the sucker still goes.
Quote from: VR6 on July 26, 2008, 08:26:14 PM
Worked on a mk3 with no aircon today and that is the system you want to run. Funny how one turns up the next day after you have just been talking about one. Still runs a ribbed belt but the water pump has a smooth pulley and the belt runs on the back side when it runs over the water pump. Very much like a VR6 arrangement. There is a seperate belt that runs the power steering so the ribbed belt only runs the alternator and water pump. PERFECT !! I have the alternator to fit that arrangement but not the bracket to suit. It would be worth calling Euroline for just the bracket and water pump pulley as the alternator sits low and would clear the inlet manifold of the ABF. That way you get to keep the excellent ribbed belt and not have to go back to vee belts.As for the Immoblizer, I swaped a bad (first one ever )ecu in another MK3 today also and had to extract the pin code to be able to code the key. I thought the tacho was holding the pin but I will remove a speedo next week and see if the sucker still goes.
Thank you so much VR6, i will do exactly that ;) i will ring on monday and see what i can get and can i have or buy that ALT off you?
Alan at Platnuim said they had one of those brackets but they threw it away :P And maybe i can get you over to help me with my key recode once i get the other parts I need, key reader and black box is it?
The black box is under the dash by the steering colum, the key reader plugs into it. No immo in the cluster as they only use key, reader and black box for conversions into MK2's
crap that will be easy then. See you soon. All you need to do is code the key to the ABF ECU once you get everything in place. I would fit a MK3 key barrel to the mk1 steering column, which has the key reader and get your door handles changed to suit the coded mk3 key. I,ll get a black box that I have got the pin code to out ready for you.
If its easy to swap the ignition onto my column i will do that but if not is it one of those keys and reader things that you just have to have the key next to the reader?
You could also take the barrel out and put it in your housing but i think fitting the whole lock/ign unit will be easy.
Quote from: BB on July 27, 2008, 05:35:31 PM
If its easy to swap the ignition onto my column i will do that but if not is it one of those keys and reader things that you just have to have the key next to the reader?
This was covered competely in the first link that I posted for you at the start of this thread.
The crude but effective approach seems to be just to tape the transponder from the immobiliser key onto the coil reader, and hide the both of them inside the dash.
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpic60.picturetrail.com%2FVOL1769%2F7825168%2F17029252%2F284251505.jpg&hash=c29ed0f778bd1d1b71c8c05e86878bb4ee3a2666)
But if you use the mk3 golf key and barrel it just might help one day when someone else likes your car more than you.
Quote from: VR6 on July 28, 2008, 07:59:17 AM
But if you use the mk3 golf key and barrel it just might help one day when someone else likes your car more than you.
I will try to do it this way but will do it the easy way if i have trouble, thanks guys, lots to get on with now.
Ok after spending a half day at Platnuim I now have the ignition with key and reader the black box, the fuse box and the rest of the loom i needed.
I have spent the evening going through the loom and cutting out what i don't need and finding i had cut out some of what i do need :P oh well a soldering iron and shrink wrap will cure that.
i was unsure as to how the key system and the VAGcom plug connected to the ECU. It connects through the fuse box, so i will be adding the fuse box too along with my other one :)
Still got a few probs tho, i will need the correct coil and i don't know which wires go to the coil yet, plus my black box wires come out and go into a small plug in box that has only one wire going out and then another wire that i don't know where it goes :P
the MK 3 wiring loom is a crazy mess i can tell you! however i feel as though i am about 50% through sortingg it so it wont be that bad.
I also got the pulleys and stuff I needed, which is a huge problem solved, I got that alt off Platnuim and then rang euroline and Rob sold me a bracket and the pulley for the water pump for $75, so that was easy.
Photos soon.
Quote from: BB on July 29, 2008, 09:05:40 AM
i was unsure as to how the key system and the VAGcom plug connected to the ECU. It connects through the fuse box, so i will be adding the fuse box too along with my other one :)
Still got a few probs tho,.................... my black box wires come out and go into a small plug in box that has only one wire going out and then another wire that i don't know where it goes :P
Again, these questions are are all addressed in the first link that I referred you to, complete with photos
No the first link shows how to fit an ABF into a mk2 with KR and retaining the KR fuel injection system, which would be easy as.
Quote from: VR6 on July 29, 2008, 01:15:58 PM
No the first link shows how to fit an ABF into a mk2 with KR and retaining the KR fuel injection system, which would be easy as.
No, if you read the whole thread it shows how to use the mk3 ecu/loom/keys. perhaps read more, write less ;D
Quote from: dubstar on July 29, 2008, 01:36:55 PM
No, if you read the whole thread it shows how to use the mk3 ecu/loom/keys. perhaps read more, write less ;D
lol ;)
the title of the thread is a bit of a clue: " Toyotecs guide to installing an ABF engine in your G2. KJet, Digi3 & MS V3X 17/07/08"
"less haste -more speed"
Damn thats what got me too..... i will have a look again, i only saw what VR6 saw as well :P
Ok while there is some help to me on that thread its the green wire that goes to 46 on the 63 pin plug, dont really want to just tape the transponder to the box I want to use the key properly.
That post is regarding installing a ABF into a mk2 digi car and fitting a tiny bit of the loom to the mk2 digi loom. I am fitting the whole mk3 loom in regards to the engine ECU and immobilizer to a mk1.
i am keeping all my old fuse box and will run my old wires to the temp gauge and oil pressure switch, alt light etc on the new engine.
My old system will start and run the fuel pump ( the auto cut out dosent work and it has a standard relay in there anyway :P I will try and correct this later)
i may later rewire my old loom to the plugs on the back of the mk 3 fuse box.....................but i doubt it very much.
Quote from: BB on July 29, 2008, 03:49:19 PM
Damn thats what got me too..... i will have a look again, i only saw what VR6 saw as well :P
I was sorta wondering why you were asking all the questions that were already answered in that thread ;)
Quote from: BB on July 29, 2008, 04:07:46 PM
That post is regarding installing a ABF into a mk2 digi car and fitting a tiny bit of the loom to the mk2 digi loom. I am fitting the whole mk3 loom in regards to the engine ECU and immobilizer to a mk1.
ok, I was assuming you had a mk2. (DOH @ me ... I too should read thread titles!)
when I upgraded both my 1600 scirocco and 1600 mk1, I used 1800cc RV motors (8-valve) and retained the k-jet, so can't help you much more :)
(I'd take k-jet over Digifant, any day of the week)
Quote from: portmanteau on July 29, 2008, 04:11:49 PM
(I'd take k-jet over Digifant, any day of the week)
Err why ??? Havent we already kinda gone there with michael and his carbs ::) K-jet is old. Digi 3.2 is a modern EFI set up, it will give me good economy and good power, plus if i decide to add a mega squirt later so i can tune, it will be easy.
Quote from: BB on July 30, 2008, 09:31:00 AM
Err why ??? Havent we already kinda gone there with michael and his carbs ::) K-jet is old. Digi 3.2 is a modern EFI set up, it will give me good economy and good power, plus if i decide to add a mega squirt later so i can tune, it will be easy.
lol it would of been easy on the race engine too... :D
Quote from: NasTnaS on July 30, 2008, 09:57:31 AM
lol it would of been easy on the race engine too... :D
But the reason I didn't want the race motor was compression Nigel. I want to run a car on pump gas not race gas.
Quote from: BB on July 30, 2008, 10:06:31 AM
But the reason I didn't want the race motor was compression Nigel. I want to run a car on pump gas not race gas.
thats fine jem... i just wanted to see that race motor at full potential... all good mate.
Hopefully you will ;D Nick is going to do it.
The pulleys and alt off a mk3 with no A/C.
Also note the cam cover is cut to allow the mk1 front engine mount to fit.
This plug I thought was the coil plug but its not, it goes to the mk3 gearbox.
The coil plug I had chopped off :P but thats the beauty of colored wire ;) You can solder it all back together.
The broken wire covering on the crank angle sensor, lucky Bsting had given me an almost new one ;)
Almost brand new cap and rotor (not pictured) that Bsting also gave me ;D
Woo Hoo Go Jemery!
This will be kewl!
The old cam belt tensioner, note the little tag that had broken off the adjuster part!
I ended up returning the Partmaster tensioner as Platnuim has them for $125 including! YAY!
Special coil that you need.
And this is the ignition, as you can see it should fit onto a standard mk1 column, so i will be able to keep it immobilized when I have the key in my pocket ;) Just need to get a new spare key? How do you do this? Do you buy one from the dealers and get it vag comed?
I will post up some pic's of what i did to the loom once i have made sure that i have done the correct stuff to it :P
To be honest its not that hard i just need Bsting to lend me his mk3 ABF manual. Ill PM him now.
Motor in now easy peasy even the dizzy was fine, brendon had a clearance issure with his KR 16v but this one has heaps of room.
Dizzy on, and this is where I will mount the coil on a steel plate I will weld in as the coil looks as tho it need to heat sink onto the steel. I will even use some of the special white goo :)
Or i might just lengthen the wires and put it where the old coil is.
Front looks all perfect, made sure i had the rubber flp things either side of the front mount, it is also a upgraded Diesel mount.
Pulleys and everything fit perfectly. So easy.
Will get some fuel line tommorow and fit the drive shafts and rad.
Then just got the exhaust and the loom to do plus fit the ignition.
I am fitting the miltek exhaust i got off rex tho sadly the rear part is actually mk3 and not mk1 :P but it can fairly easily be cut and fitted in, i just hope its not to loud, I hate loud.
Yay! Go the ABF mk1!
your gonna kick arse with this combo. and 91 octane...
nice photos are they off your phone Jem?\
Looks good in there! :)
good stuff jem... its gonnnnna be crazy quick!!!!
Shot jem, this time last week it had a 8valve lump in there
Great going BB, Looking good man.
Yep my ph camera set on VGA! so i don't have to resize them.
Oh yea and the other thing that i thought was going to be a prob that isn't is the bonnet closing, it closes fine ;D
Bsting is coming on Sat morn so I can have a look at his engine and loom and he also has a manual I can borrow so that will be the next big step.
I must say so far its been nothing but easy, I like that a lot. Too many things are hard in this game.
Lucky also that the weather has stopped me doing any other work so i have had the time to do this :) well kinda lucky except im now completely broke.
Looks great. Well done.
I am a little concerned about that chain BB. You won,t need to tame the beast that much or is that an anti theft method
Quote from: VR6 on August 01, 2008, 10:08:49 AM
I am a little concerned about that chain BB. You won,t need to tame the beast that much or is that an anti theft method
He is secretly in to BDSM
he suspends the car by the engine and takes to it via the tail pipe ;)
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.halloweenstudios.com%2Fcmb1.jpg&hash=105f7d6fa2f1111cccc191691afd09d80868bd20)
Brings a Whole new Meaning to "Man behind the mask"
No no the engine was tilting back to much with just the chains at the front so i put another to the rear to level it better!
Completely innocent I assure you. :angel:
Just fitted the radiator and found some hoses from my big green bin full of VW and Audi hoses that fit just dandy. Will keep the old mk 1 header tank.
I will get some plastic hard hose from a plumbing shop or get a copper pipe made up that goes from the brake booster to the outlet on the engine.
Then inside to do the ignition hopefully today.... but the weather is a bit better and i had better go do some proper work :P
Fitted the fuel hose this morn then Bsting turned up and I had a good look at his car and found that i still have some bits to get.
I will need the mk3 airbox with hose that runs to the bypass valve plus the airflow wire. there is another couple of vacuum type items that I may or may not need.... 1st i need to know what they are. I would like to run the factory air filter and box tho as there is plenty of room for it.
A good note was that I feel I have pretty much sorted the loom out. I am going to run two fuse boxes, the mk3 box i will remove all the relays and fuses i do not need to keep it simple.
I will have a main power to both of them (as is normal) plus the wires that run to the ignition switch, here i will graft the old wires to the new mk3 key and physical ign switch. so when i turn the key i will use the old box to do the lights, dash, indicators etc etc AND the Alternator so that the old dash light works as normal. My old loom will also run the fuel pump. I would like some help if anybody knows what the trigger is in the mk3 for the telemetric relay as i would connect that and fit the correct relay again if i could.
I will have to remove the dash to get a nice fit with all this wiring, but thats ok as I want to put down sound deadening and tidy up all other wiring an stereo stuff. Its also good to try and get rid of the mk1 squeaks an rattles too.
I need a plumber to bend me up a S bend of copper pipe to get my vacuum to the booster still and I have the exhaust to do still.
And a note to all who read this in full go back to the pic where I was showing the coil wire.... its not the coil wire and i have made the correction.
hey jem, do you think the ABF dizzy will fit into a 9a?
Quote from: NasTnaS on August 02, 2008, 03:31:10 PM
hey jem, do you think the ABF dizzy will fit into a 9a?
Yes I do but i may be wrong, is it different than a hall dizzy? you can come try to fit mine if you want to see.
I need the air box like this with the hose the goes across to the bypass valve, my hose has an extra hole in it just by the air box so maybe my hose goes in there? i can block that tho whatever air box i get.
I also need these bits maybe ??? Im not sure what some of them are. Obviously I need the air flow sensor (With fingers attached) which goes into the side of the rubber intake tube.
Some vacuum hoses from the throttle body go to the other thing is. Anybody know what its for or can I just block that outlet off?
that looks like an air temp sensor..
Yea but whats the thing that the black hose goes into next to it? I have put my wires next to them as well to confuse things.
Bstings Manual dosen't have the any engine wiring diagrams, let alone an ABF one.
Platnuim have the bentley manual but Alan said there isnt the ABF in their.
Can anyone help me?
I need to be fairly sure i have everything right or i might fry my ECU.
The Bentley won't have it cause the ABF wasn't sold in North America. A Haynes might be a better one to have a look at?
not sure if this helps....
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.extraefi.co.uk%2FDrawings%2Fvw_abf.JPG&hash=77cbef2c932b440ad106f00f301dea388ede2bfd)
yes That helps Nigel thanks i know that pin 7 is the ignition feed now.
I have borrowed Bstings haynes golf vento book no 3097 but its hopeless it dosen't even have the engine loom for any of the engines ???
To be honest im pretty sure i have it pretty much sussed I will post up a photo of the wire im not sure where goes.
A wiring diagram would be really helpful tho :-\
This little bugger.
Can somebody whos a member of VWvortex ask turbod16v to email them a ABF diagram as he has oe and im to lazy to join right now .... i will later ..........
That will be a std wire that all MK3's have, not just the ABF.
Have a look what number is on the end of the 6 pin plug that goes into the black box (will be 2 or 4 by the looks) and then you will be able to look it up on any generic MK3 diagram.
Quote from: BB on August 04, 2008, 08:24:32 AM
This little bugger.
The IMMO box connects to only 3 places:
Transponder loop (key-reader)
Power (and ground I guess)
Diagnostic bus (which is how it talks to the ECU)
Grey/White is definitely the Diag Bus
If it was an Audi of the same era (which uses a very similar Immobiliser box), it would connect like this diagram:
The pinouts and colours will be different, but at least it gives you an idea how all the pieces fit together
Here is how all the data bus lines connect on a Mk3 without Immo - you will see they are all grey/white
Immo is just one further connection to the same bus
If anybody wants the full set of Mitchell (USA) schematics for the Mk3, they can be downloaded from here:
http://www.eserviceinfo.com/downloadsm/7320/volkswagen_golf%20III.html
Awsum stuff portmanteau ;)
I have had a few pinball machines that I have had to (try to) read schematics for in my time so they are not quite a scary as they may be to some. That said I still find myself having to hold both my eyes and my tongue in a certain way and breath slowly and noisily through my nose before I can get anywhere with them.
Breath slowly Jeremy, real slow .Then it all becomes very clear,very clear, remember the colour code has not changed for years ;D
Quote from: BB on August 04, 2008, 08:21:06 PM
Awsum stuff portmanteau ;)
I have had a few pinball machines that I have had to (try to) read schematics for in my time so they are not quite a scary as they may be to some. That said I still find myself having to hold both my eyes and my tongue in a certain way and breath slowly and noisily through my nose before I can get anywhere with them.
Really? I have a Gottlieb Tropic Isle in my lounge which I rebuilt about 15 years ago - a background in electro-mechanical stuff from the 70's is invaluable.
I did my time on IBM paper-tape readers, and the ilk, and computers with core memory and TTL latch cards, so VAG won't beat me ;)
Ive got a Gottlieb surf and Safari :) great machines the Gottliebs by far the most solid and reliable of machines. My Surf and Safari is the only one in the country. Its a bit of a wonky theme really but its a good players game. I'm kinda sick of it now tho.... we should swap for a while but you live in CHCH eh?
Damn its turned out that those schematics are wrong for the loom I have. All the colours and pin placements are different to what I have.
Quote from: BB on August 11, 2008, 06:17:29 PM
Damn its turned out that those schematics are wrong for the loom I have. All the colours and pin placements are different to what I have.
but at least the grey/white unidentified wire for the data bus was correct? I would hate to be 100% wrong !
you'll only blow fuses if the wires are wrong.
Surely some trial and error can't hurt?
Quote from: portmanteau on August 11, 2008, 07:58:08 PM
but at least the grey/white unidentified wire for the data bus was correct? I would hate to be 100% wrong !
Yes that part seems good, its just the ECU. Thanks Port, I checked the site for a 96 gti but didn't get anything :-\
Quote from: GTI's on August 11, 2008, 09:32:08 PM
you'll only blow fuses if the wires are wrong.
Surely some trial and error can't hurt?
Ok Ill get you to buy me a new ECU if it blows cause i took your advice ;D ;)
I'm not really letting it hold me up brendon, I got stuff still to do still, its just when I'm sitting inside I like to go over that stuff till I know it by heart.
year by year, 93-97, here:
http://www.vwpower.be/techdocs.html
still Mitchell diagrams, but worth a look?
or these, engine mgmt only, 3 engine types incl. ABF:
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-1.gif
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-2.gif
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-3.gif
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-7.gif
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-8.gif
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-9.gif
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-4.gif
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-5.gif
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-6.gif
Those were very slow to load - if you can't get them, I managed to save copies
Ok benny hill.
Thanks portmanteau ;)
Quote from: BB on August 12, 2008, 09:03:49 AM
Thanks portmanteau ;)
right ones, this time, or are you still searching?
No I got what i need this time and its even much more simple to read and understand.
Thank you very much indeed.
Well..... The schematics I have now are good but some of the wires, like the coil wires, are a different colour and they go to different places on the large plug that goes to the ECU :P
However they are still a great help as i know IF they just go straight to the ecu or not and i can by holding all my face in the right way do most of what i need.
It would still be great to find the real proper ones tho ??? its strange really cause it says its for that car on the bottom of the page and lots is correct. Maybe they did a few different things just for our market or something?
Anyway its all going good, got the extra bits I needed from Platnuim, they are so good they just gave me the bits cause they like to see a project going ;D Not saying they will give you bits but if you want to do an engine swap see them cause they do the wicked following up with stuff you need to do a swap rather than just a refitting of the same type.
So i have my loom lieing over the top of my engine and going through the quarter light window into the car where it connects to the mk3 fuse box that connects to the ignition switch.
i will leave it like this till the engine has been started and run to temp and then vag commed to make sure its all right and then i will tape it all up properly and make a hole in the fire wall that the plugs can fit through to the fuse box.
Then everything will be stuffed under dash except the fuse box which i will be able to get too.
I think i will mount the mk3 fuse box just down by the drivers foot like in a mk3.
the way i am doing it by retaining my old fuse box to run the lights the starter and the dash etc but just tagging the mk3 loom on at the ign switch is by far the quickest way to do this swap tho a few have looked at me funny, ill show them in the end ;D
I mean whats the point in doing the whole loom i dont have power windows or anything and if the mk1 ever really gets old and valuable then this loom and engine could be removed and the original stuff refitted...........Yea Right.
Ill put up some pics again today.
can you be 100% sure that you actually have an ABF loom?
It's a VR6 Loom.
should be cool tho.
Quote from: GTI's on August 16, 2008, 03:07:45 PM
It's a VR6 Loom.
should be cool tho.
lol, well that does sorta explain why some of the wire colours are different!
>> shufflez off to find a vr6 diagram <<
No its a ABF loom. I just got the fuse box and the vagcom wires an plug and the immobilizer from a VR6.
The rest of the loom is ABF. As in you have the wires that are all actually on the engine and they disconect at a round large twist plug. Then this plug along with a few other sensors and the coil wires and oxygen sensor etc go to the ECU or branch of and go to the fuse box for either power or to route through to the ecu or whatever.
I am having trouble fully understanding how fuse 18 works on a mk3 and would like somebody who owns one to do a test for me.
Can you get a test light and see if fuse 18 has no power to it when the ignition is both off and on but with the engine not started.
Then start the engine and see if fuse 18 is live.
Fuse 18 runs the fuel pump and also the pre heater to the oxygen sensor.
I think thats how it should work as I have my loom all pluged in and all the fuses i need are live and all the places have power or connections except for that fuse 18 isnt live. I want to just know before pluging my ecu in as i really dont want to hurt it and then go nuts on my loom trying to figure it out.
If i have any probs with it not starting once i have satisfyed myself with my looms correctness, i will check the ECU in another cars first thing, i dont suspest it as being dud but thats just the first thing i would do.
hey jem its great to see you doing some stuff on your mk1!
Yea yea :)
So which mk3 owner is gona do this test for me?
test light earthed to the key metal and make sure no light with ign off and on but then a light when the car is running.
Bump ??? So whats happened to all the helpful people out there. the weather got everyone bitter and sad out there?
Yep it runs.
Just need to recode the ECU to the key and immobilizer box with a vagcom, Anton is going to help me. the key and box came out of a mk3 VR6. I have the code from the VR6 to put into the ABF ECU.
Just need to make up the exhaust and tidy up a few things and its good to go :)
Oh yea the one thing I haven't quite worked out yet is how to trigger my mk1 rev counter with the mk3 coil ???
the rev counter will be easy. Just look carefully at the coil. There is a little cover between the coil part and the amp. You want to hook the feed for the rev counter into the one of the wires going to the coil part. Not the power feed but the trigger.
well done m8 maybe ull have it ready for sept track day :P
Quote from: VR6 on August 19, 2008, 01:30:17 PM
the rev counter will be easy. Just look carefully at the coil. There is a little cover between the coil part and the amp. You want to hook the feed for the rev counter into the one of the wires going to the coil part. Not the power feed but the trigger.
Cheers.
Plenty of stuff still to do really. Cant make to sept track day and also cant afford this one. But will be at the next ;)
Quote from: BB on August 19, 2008, 12:07:33 PM
Yep it runs.
Just need to recode the ECU to the key and immobilizer box with a vagcom, Anton is going to help me. the key and box came out of a mk3 VR6. I have the code from the VR6 to put into the ABF ECU.
Just need to make up the exhaust and tidy up a few things and its good to go :)
Oh yea the one thing I haven't quite worked out yet is how to trigger my mk1 rev counter with the mk3 coil ???
the tacho gets its signal from the negative side of the coil...
Hows it coming along Jem? Got it running?
It goes vroom and then stops, immobilizer need to be keyed to the ecu still. Im waiting for Anton to come to try and do it.
Still got the exhaust to make (difficult/expensive), rig up throttle cable (easy) fill with coolant. Then inside i got to wire up my gauges and fit the loom properly then refit the dash.
Rig up the wire for the rev counter, Nigel can do that for me ;D
oh something else maybe you can help with, I have put the big wire from the alt to the positive wire on the starter (Straight to battery basically). And in the wiring diagram the the thin blue wire gets live when the ignition is swiched on? Is this true on the mk3? As the little blue wire on a mk1 dosen't get live when the ignition is on.
I want to somehow connect this wire to make the red light on the mk1 dash work. can i just connect it in or does it need to be live for the mk3 alt as an exciter or something?
Yes the little wire on the mk1 does get live when the key gets turned on. Goes through the warning light and onto the alternator. The light should light up when earthed. I would say the mk3 one works the same
Quote from: VR6 on August 25, 2008, 07:53:04 AM
Yes the little wire on the mk1 does get live when the key gets turned on. Goes through the warning light and onto the alternator. The light should light up when earthed. I would say the mk3 one works the same
Hmmm ill try that. If I connect a test light to the mk1 blue wire the light dosen't light up. I will earth it tho and see if the light comes on.
Thanks VR6....................Aha I know why it dosen't........ my dash is unpluged.
Thanks VR6 ;D Easy!
ill try and pop around this week... one of my Computers got damaged last night tho.. the garage leaked and flooded and my Dry Storage Area for my Equipment is well. no longer dry... grrr
damn hard rain fall and blocked drains..
Bummer.
Quote from: HitmanR32 on August 25, 2008, 02:31:48 PM
ill try and pop around this week... one of my Computers got damaged last night tho.. the garage leaked and flooded and my Dry Storage Area for my Equipment is well. no longer dry... grrr
damn hard rain fall and blocked drains..
That's what hairdryers were invented for....
Thats what those gutter gaurds are made for.
Oh the troubles they have in the leafy suburbs.
Jem - get this thing going. The Jetta just returned 7.4l/100km 3 tanks in a row.
Yes its a little stalled at the moment.
need to get the key recoded to the ECU.
Plus I have a problem in that when i have my key off i get a relay buzzing, it stops when ignition is on. It maybe the pre heater for the oxygen sensor not being pluged in yet and being earthed, but im not sure that makes sence :P Anyway when i get the thing running i can take it to Platnuim and get alan to help do any final details hopefully.
i have everything else all ready and connected properly now Anton.... please come and do it, why didn't it work last time? When its running iwill tie back all the wires properly and refit tthee dash. I have started to do the exhaust now too.
i kinda stall on things unless i can get certain steps done... want the damn thing to run before i do all the other stuff, its goes roar but then stops and the ecu says its immobilized.
Anton..... Please :-* :-* :-* :P :P
No problem Jem You got beer ?
Ive got beer ;)
Wednesday after work then ?. Where do you live ?
Pt Chev,
My beer is tastier and i have more valves >:D
I'm in mt Wellington too!
whats another seven years :D
You bugger off, my fordson has taken 8 years now and i don't want this car to take that long.
Ok Wednesday it is, thank you so much Alan you are a true gentleman and a scholar and your cock weighs a pound.
i will have morebeer than you can drink so you will have to take it home... might even chuck in a bottle of whiskey I bought but don't drink. So ill make it worth your while as an after worker is always a big favour.
I have cranked it over again with type53 yesterday and she roars and dies so its all ready for your amazing skills, only other prob is the buzzing relay but you will suss that in seconds i hope.......
yay i will be really happy when it runs and i will hurry and finish the rest off.
Where you live Jem ?
i couldnt work this one out everytime i tried to code the key it basically told me to piss off!
:P
Quote from: HitmanR32 on September 23, 2008, 12:05:34 PM
i couldnt work this one out everytime i tried to code the key it basically told me to piss off!
is this trying to code a new key to an existing matched immobilser box and ecu?
I always believed that to do that you also need the 4-digit pin code?
Gave BB a box that I already scanned and got the pin number from.
Quote from: VR6 on September 23, 2008, 05:16:56 PM
Gave BB a box that I already scanned and got the pin number from.
gotcha.
I assume it's not an aftermarket blank key? I've had trouble with those.
I have a ABF engine with loom and ECU. Then i got the fuse box, igniton key and barrel and reader and black box and vagcom port from a mk3 VR6.
VR6 plugged in the vagcom and got the pin off the VR6. I hope we dont need to know a number from the ecu or something as well but we need to change the ECU to accept the new keys number which i imagine is quite a common thing to do when the keys get lost, only difference is we have not only added a new key to the system we have added a new key and a new black box.
Quote from: BB on September 23, 2008, 06:28:33 PM
I have a ABF engine with loom and ECU. Then i got the fuse box, igniton key and barrel and reader and black box and vagcom port from a mk3 VR6.
VR6 plugged in the vagcom and got the pin off the VR6. I hope we dont need to know a number from the ecu or something as well but we need to change the ECU to accept the new keys number which i imagine is quite a common thing to do when the keys get lost, only difference is we have not only added a new key to the system we have added a new key and a new black box.
if I understand you right, the ecu connected now, is not the same ecu that was connected when he extracted the pin? The pin is coded to both the ecu AND the IMMO box, as far as I know, so it's just not going to work, if that is the case? ECU, IMMO, and key are coded together as a whole.
I also didn't think a standard vagcom can extract the pin, although another device available online can do so - but that's another story. PresumablyVR6 had one of these devices.
No I have changed ECU units before. Just need the new ECU to read the key. Just need the pin code to log in. It seems the ECU stores all the information. If tonight I can read the ecu and the immobilizer information I should be able to match the two together. Just hope the wiring is all not going to be a problem as that can certainly slow things down. We will see tonight. Just a quick thought BB. Can you give me the ECU part number and I will bring a few spares just in case they are different between the early and late ones. The immobilizer was from a 1997 VR6 but the earlier pre 94-95 cars may be a little different. Give me the immobilizer box number as well so we can cover all bases.
Quote from: portmanteau on September 23, 2008, 02:12:09 PM
is this trying to code a new key to an existing matched immobilser box and ecu?
I always believed that to do that you also need the 4-digit pin code?
I have the ability to suck the pin codes out
Quote from: HitmanR32 on September 24, 2008, 08:20:04 AM
I have the ability to suck the pin codes out
I was thinking of buying one of thoe boxes too. Does it work well, and do you mind telling me exactly which one you bought (presumably a chinese one)?
but right now, he seems to be saying that the ecu he is trying to use is not the same ecu as vr6 extracted a pin from, so it sure ain't gonna work till he extracts the pin a second time from the correct ecu :-/
No the pin number comes from the Immobilizer box so I am hoping I have everything I need. I should be coding the ecu to the box that I already have the pin number to,as this is what I have done when an ECU has failed in a mk3 before
Quote from: portmanteau on September 24, 2008, 09:54:34 AM
I was thinking of buying one of thoe boxes too. Does it work well, and do you mind telling me exactly which one you bought (presumably a chinese one)?
but right now, he seems to be saying that the ecu he is trying to use is not the same ecu as vr6 extracted a pin from, so it sure ain't gonna work till he extracts the pin a second time from the correct ecu :-/
Anton runss laptops with his software and he has two different programmes that he swapped between. I want one of those thing too i have even e-mailed the guy in aussy and he replyed to me, I think i will get one but i do have a laptop and how much and how hard is it to get the lead?
Quote from: BB on September 24, 2008, 06:17:22 PM
Anton runss laptops with his software and he has two different programmes that he swapped between. I want one of those thing too i have even e-mailed the guy in aussy and he replyed to me, I think i will get one but i do have a laptop and how much and how hard is it to get the lead?
Anton's selling all his stuff. I'd check with him first
Quote from: BB on September 24, 2008, 06:17:22 PM
Anton runss laptops with his software and he has two different programmes that he swapped between. I want one of those thing too i have even e-mailed the guy in aussy and he replyed to me, I think i will get one but i do have a laptop and how much and how hard is it to get the lead?
the box that I am thinking of is a small stand-alone device out of China. No laptop needed.
So how're you getting on BB? Is it running for more than 5 secs now?
No.
You gotta be patient with the things you cant do yourself, people are busy. :)
I have had Alan over but it looks like maybe anton was right and my slightly dodgy wiring has to be connected a little better.
I am a little unsure how to do a very few things so I have been connecting with jumpers for now but they were a little useless and possibly falling off and farting around before we could finish the vagcom and end the session.
So i have soldered the wires up and will just remove the relay that buzzes and hope when the oxygen sensor is fitted and therefore earthed this will stop buzzing.
There were times when Alan was working out on the laptop and i was inside holding wires that I had noticed the wire come off and thought DOH .........
so yea things are a bit tidier now an just waiting again.
I did however go to a shop in Avondale that i have always seen but never visited called FBI performance. the have lots of cool stuff like air filters and blue intercooler hose etc plus they got me some vog(something) spring for $300 a set. Going to pick em up today.
They have a alloy radiator for a skyline r33 and a silvia there to for only $295 each!!!! that is way less than you could ever buy a standard one and they look the bollocks. So if anyone knows anyone who's got a skyline or a silvia they should get 1.
Quote from: BB on October 04, 2008, 09:01:16 AM
plus they got me some vog(something) spring for $300 a set. Going to pick em up today.
vogtland
they would be getting the springs from kieth. cheers for the skyline rad hint! ill let my bro know
ring Keith BB, he'll do you H&R for that price . . . .
Are H&R better or just harder and lower? In which case if they are i am happy with the vogtland....... I knew as soon as i bought them somebody was going to say i should have got something else.
Would Keith swap them for H&Rs and a bit of extra dosh if the H&Rs are that much better?
I feel sorry for him cause he got charged $56 for the courier cause he didnt trust thee other cheaper one would do it in time :P i said oh man i didn't really care, but the guy at the shop said it was fine.
So thanks Keith if you guys know him.
Anyway i got some nice new springs here to fit into my bilstiens
K.
I did some stuff on the car today.
Fitted my nicely painted drive shafts back in.
Fitted much better lower swing arms, better ball joints and the inner bushes on one of my old ones was stuffed!
Fitted the vogtland springs all round. man the old rear ones were so short :P :P The vogtlands were 2 or 3 inches longer! Much better now i think.
Straightened out the rear sills a bit.
Even tho Vask seems to be dead and nobody cares and im going down the garden to eat some worms i thought I would say that
Thanks to the wonderful Type53 my car has now been key coded and it runs, Its not going that well at the mo cause it needs more stuff connected but it goes.
I can now get the exhaust done which i will do myself at my kingsland garage.
I am so happy, thanks so much Craig, he was very good at reading through what was needed and made the whole thing so simple.
swapped the 1 an 4 leads, goes beta now.
Quote from: BB on November 02, 2008, 03:35:06 PM
swapped the 1 an 4 leads, goes beta now.
hahaha :-) done that before!
so is it all sweet jem? Give me some PICTURES!
Quote from: Natesgti-for sale! on November 02, 2008, 04:14:02 PM
so is it all sweet jem? Give me some PICTURES!
Yeah I second that 8)
Yea it seems pretty good :) A screamer in fact.
It has no exhaust at the mo and so i cant really run it. Will tow it up to the shop tomorow and put it on the hoist and weld the exhaust up.
ive got my mate garage for 3 weeks ;D ;D ;D ;D
1 hoist and probily 2 bays and i just have to do the services but there are none booked in at the moment so im gona do my car first ;)
I got a subaru headgasket, a passat sump and oil pick up cleaning job abd a heater core to fit into a VR6 to do as well so ill be busy.
Heres some photos :) Cant disappoint the few fans I do have :P
new ride height, and still a bit to do dash wise :)
good work Jeremy, will be interesting to see how it goes at Puke.
Do you have big brakes?
nice stuff jem 8) now to get mine going ::)
No big brakes just a strong foot ;) I will get some performance pads.
I still have the problem of a buzzing relay. The 109 relay. It is used for the fuel pump and the CO2 sensor preheater. I am unsure how it is supposed to be wired because even tho i have a diagram i seem to be to dim to understand it fully.... I was sidetracked by the not going part of the equasion tho so now maybe i will be able to suss out what is supposed to happen.
if i power the main wire to the ABF fuse box the 109 relay buzzes even with the key off :P if i turn the key on it shuts up and the car starts and goes fine. But buzzes on switch off again.
If i put the main wire to the abf fusebox onto the switched power the car dosen't go :P
i would quite like to try another 109 relay in case its just a dud relay but i sort of doubt it i think something need to be earthed that isnt.
Great news!! Stop feeling sorry for yourself :D Now all that's left is 214 small jobs :P Good luck with the task of finishing now that you've rounded the bend.
Looking good Jem... can't wait to see it in action on the track someday 8)
I cant wait to get an exhaust on it. It screams like a screaming thing. I sometimes eta huge urge to just start it and rev it because it is so insanely loud with no exhaust ;D :laugh:
I wonder what would happen if everybody in the whole wide world cut off the exhausts on every car in the whole world and then reved the hell out of them. The noise would be unimaginable.
i guess we will never know.
You wouldn't notice after a while Jem, everyone would be deaf!
Any chance of a video to hear the beast roar?
No I dear not start it again. I got it started then swapped the leads, then reved it and that was enough. Insanely loud.
Well today I got the clutch cable fitted up properly and moved it off my lawn again in prep for the exhaust.
I also made the hose from manifold to brake booster in its finished state.
And cut a water hose down so it was a better fit.
My reverse linkage is a bit out so thats on the list. But first now is exhaust.
I want to get the ball joint extenders that Noel has. I feel that they are a fundamental equation in getting the right handling. As my a arms are now pointing up :P
Quote from: BB on November 08, 2008, 12:27:00 PM
Well today I got the clutch cable fitted up properly and moved it off my lawn again in prep for the exhaust.
I also made the hose from manifold to brake booster in its finished state.
And cut a water hose down so it was a better fit.
My reverse linkage is a bit out so thats on the list. But first now is exhaust.
I want to get the ball joint extenders that Noel has. I feel that they are a fundamental equation in getting the right handling. As my a arms are now pointing up :P
yup, Noels got the wickedest bits on his mk1....
Quote from: BB on November 08, 2008, 12:27:00 PM
Well today I got the clutch cable fitted up properly and moved it off my lawn again in prep for the exhaust.
I also made the hose from manifold to brake booster in its finished state.
And cut a water hose down so it was a better fit.
My reverse linkage is a bit out so thats on the list. But first now is exhaust.
I want to get the ball joint extenders that Noel has. I feel that they are a fundamental equation in getting the right handling. As my a arms are now pointing up :P
I thought your new springs raised the ride height?
Its strange Dennis, the front seems a wee bit lower, tho im sure thee arms were pointing up a little before as well, just more now.
But the rear seems higher.
When are you gona get ol yellow?
I suspect the ABF is a wee bit heavier than the old 1.6l? Good to see more progress being made Jem.
Quote from: BB on November 09, 2008, 10:15:49 AM
Its strange Dennis, the front seems a wee bit lower, tho im sure thee arms were pointing up a little before as well, just more now.
But the rear seems higher.
When are you gona get ol yellow?
This weekend is looking up, and if that doesn't work, S leaves for Oz in another week so I can bang on over after work!
I got the exhaust on ;D Got it towed up to woolf and $305 later its a sweet system way better than i could have done ;D ;D
BUT DOH I forgot to get them to fit a O2 sensor thread ::) ::) So I will have to go back up there and get that done.
Its running now but its insanely rich at lower revs and sounds like its missing then it goes roar when you floor it a bit.
I took the plugs out and ther all black and sooty :P
Do you think it will be the O2 sensor missing?
The timing is set by thee crank angle sensor isnt it?
Oh yea i have to fit the vacuum hose to the ECU as well, got a longer one but left it at work.
I will post a pic of the exhaust, its so good. miltec ;D Quiet but then a nice rasp.
The o2 sensor tells it how rich its running so without I guess it just goes rich
02 sensor if connected but not in exhaust will detect oxygen therefore spraying more fuel as its recognising a lean mixture
yea, I hope so.
Oh yea i seem to have cured my buzzing relay as well in that when i wired the second fuse box(engine) the way I wanted (main power connected to the switched power on the car) it wouldn't run, and then would run when i connected it to the constant power ??? But when it was connected to constant power the relay would buzz with the ign off.
Well.... It seems to work thee way i want it to now ;D Car goes no buzzing relay.
Man I wish i hadn't forgot the O2 thread ::) :-\ Damn cars.
Its not connected.
Any other ideas why it might be so rich? does it make a difference that the O2 is un plugged? ill get a thread to add to the exhaust today :P Man that pisses me off i forgot to say to add that ::)
my exhaust is so good tho no rattles and nice a quiet till it gets revved hard.
If the O2 sensor is unplugged the ECU will probably run rich as a safe setting in case the engine is running too lean and the ECU doesn't know it.
Ok I will wait till I get the O2 sensor in before I worry.
Does anybody know absolutely for sure that the car will go super rich if the O2 is disconected? Hans? Noel? BOB? Vert1?
I know that a faulty O2 sensor often causes engines to run realy rich Jem, so i assume that no voltage from the O2 sensor will produce the same result, so yes is the answewr
Ripper. Thanks Noel. I guess they need all there bits don't they. im so pissed i forgot to get it put in ::) ::) What a knob but such is the way when doing cars. Im so happy with the exhaust tho.
I did the same thing when I installed my 9a :P
The O2 sensor is an emisson type product, at wide open throttle, O2 sensors are disconnected,or not read at all.
They are used to trim fueling at cruise,so at idle they will always run rich, its just safer to run rich than lean
This is very very rich :P It wont idle and runs like crap really. They are solid mount dizzy timed by crank sensor so timing cant be out.... ill check my cambelt timing again but its not hard and i do em every week or a couple a week Ive done 100s
Obviously there will be some things to work out.
Is the air flow meter thing in the air intake very sensitive or troublesome? as i have no air filter at the mo. I will get a pod tomorrow.
Also the throttle position sensors? will they fault code if theres a problem? I haven't read a O2 code yet :-\ Mind you I havent read it since i ran it. Ill go do it now.
Holy crap Jem, you dont have an O2 sensor in circuit at the moment , just reax and get that done first, dont change anything until that happens.
Remember only change one thing at a time.
This is an engine, its easy to forget what you changed last ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
The ECU is not stupid It will run fine without a oxygen sensor. The oxygen sensor will adjust the fuel mixture and sometimes when they short out in the heater circuit can affect the running alot, but without it the ECU will just pick a safe setting. How old is the fuel? Which fuel pump are you running? Check the fuel pressure. Have you the map sensor hooked up before the one way valve and not after it. Check the temperature sensor is working. There are not many things to cause the mixture being over rich. The ECU will probably tell you what is wrong. Plug it in and scan it.
Hmm.... thanks bob. But damn I was hopeing the O2 sensor would be my prob tho :P. The exhaust guys said it would make it run rich too.
I dunno i will fit it and see. One thing at a time as Noel says.
I got the thread ring off Woolf so I will do that soon. Fuel is not that old, should be fine. Running standard mk1 K-jet pump, I thought any extra pressure would be bypassed?
And map sensor is in the same place as in a normal mk3 only dif is the air box is all cut away, you can go back in this thread and see the pics, one way valve? what one way valve?
And temp sensor, how can i tell?
I have scanned it and it just says its blocked by the immobilizer ??? But its not..... Oh dear me.... Ill fit the O2 and see how we go, it cant be too much and soon i will be able to bring it out and get the pros to have a look with their vagcom :)
im pretty happy as its going and I know I'm a patient man, you learn that being a mechanic.
Thanks for all the help and keep it coming ;)
The "blocked by immo" will be from last time & stays stored, just scan & clear it.
Have you got the vacuum hose connected to the ECU?
The ABF ECU has a built in MAP sensor, car will not idle properly with this disconected.
Yes vacuum hose connected.
I don't understand what you mean by built in MAP sensor? I thought it was the thing in the air intake and I do have it connected.
When GTI had his vacuum hose disconnected in his KR 16v (k-jet I know) it would idle fine just not rev past 5000, what would it do to my ABF?
And thanks I will clear that immo code and scan it again ;)
Well, I had one where the vacuum hose was off the ECU and it would not idle. Does it hunt at idle?
Ok, well vacuum hose is connected.
Managed to clear the immo codes but it still runs like a dog, smells intensely of gas and blows heaps of smoke and is just insanely rich :P
To be honest..... Its starting to crap me this whole thing.
The more i learn the more i think I should have kept the K-jet.
NEway, whats this about the MAP sensor? How do i test this is working ok?
And i musnt forget i still have the O2 sensor to fit, don't get any fault codes regarding this being disconnected tho?
who thinks my mk1 fule pump is giving to much pressure and thus to much fuel?
run it on a KR K-jet seems to be the way to over ride the lo-res brain of the ABF
manual injection big pump and no rev limiter = good times
MK1 pump will deliver way more pressure and volume than MK3 GTI pump, even if the pressure reg does regulate pressure there's still way more volume.
Do a fuel pressure test to check, I'd say install the correct pump and your probems will dissapear.
I had a 1600cc MK4 a while back with a seized pump, installed a MK4 GTI one that I had and the thing ran way rich/stunk of fuel. All resolved by installing the correct pump for that engine.
I think it may be the fuel pump.
Noel is using his old mk1 pump in his 1.8t tho with no probs.
Is a mk3 gti pump a in tank one tho?
And MAP sensor? How do you check them?
And i don't have a fuel pressure tester. We know that the pressure and volume is way higher tho, could well be too much for it to by pass.
Maybe i need to join VW vortex or something and ask the folk who have done a ABF swap, i was under the impression I didnt need to worry about thee pump.
Who wants to sell me a cheap mk3 pump?
What about just useing a mk2 digi pump?
Thats a good idea ;)
Anybody got a mk2 digi pump I can buy? Im pretty sure that my problem now.
so if the 02 sensor is not fitted, won't the ECU richen the fuel being metered?
just get a fuel presure reg and dial in what pressure you are after ;)
There is a bypass with reg built into the fuel rail. I think its just the insane volume that the k-jet pump flows.
BOB dosent think the ECU will make it run stinking filthy rich without O2 sensor, i believe him. Still havent had a damn chance to fit it yet tho to truely say.
Vert has said he fitted a over powered pump to a efi car and the volume and pressure was just to much for it to cope with and it ran all fuely and super smelly rich.
My car is rich rich rich.
i think a mk2 digi pump will be a lower pressure pump that will fit straight on pretty mucheven if i do need to add a 2nd "lifter pump" to that,I ll just get some generic jap pump.
Kiwihigh do you think a FPR would still work for me?
And Nigel yes it would run rich without O2 but not like this.
the fuel being metered into the engine, is being controlled by the FPR as well as other things, what pressure is your current FPR at? if its a factory 1, it should be fine...
my megasquirt system is using the K-jet pump, with a 3.5 bar FPR...
Its the factory one i just added some hoses to the engine nothing else.
how come Verts car went all crap like my one then?
Don't all EFI cars have a FPR ??? And dont most people add an aftermarket one to boost the pressure on a normal system rather than trying to lose 70 odd pound of pressure like my one is?
I mean how much is a standard K-jet? 90 psi or something against 14 for a EFI.
I guess you say you are running your k-jet pump and so is noel. Do you both have AM FPRs?
ill chuck the flamin O2 sencor in before I do anything but a mk2 digi pump I think is better I dont want all that pressure if i don't need it.
Ill ask JohnP if he has one. or Colin? Anyone?
im using the standard digi FPR...
Hmmmmmm its all so dont knowy isnt it.
I will fit the O2 sensor and see how I go.
thanks for all the ideas and experiences guys its how you suss these odditys.
And I just keep on kicking myself for not getting the O2 fitted :P
This week i will as Im not to busy it seems.
is the air temp sensor fitted? if not that will cause problems as well.
Just a thought, Nigel with your MS setup you will have set the injector pulse width to suit your setup (ie it will be shorter than the factory spec due to the vastly delivery rate of the K-jet pump) whereas Jem's factory ECU is likely setup to suit the pressure/flow delivery of the Digi-style fuel pumps, ie too long a pulse width and hence too much fuel delivered.
I suspect that has a major bearing on things and it's likely that you are both right. For now Jem might be better going down the Digi-pump or adjustable FPR route.
More pics! Sounds like a good swap, hope it all works out.
Why o why have you not got that O2 sensor installed yet Jeremy ;D
Just because Noel ;)
He's been too busy PM'ing people about what a prick i am and the sad bit is most of them were forwarded to me.
;)
Oh dear, i had no idea about that Brendon.
But really,all Jem needs to do is to mig a fitting into the exhaust and fit the damning thing, FGS
It's a seven year project. Give him a break ;D
ok :o
Quote from: typ53 on November 30, 2008, 04:39:17 PM
Just a thought, Nigel with your MS setup you will have set the injector pulse width to suit your setup (ie it will be shorter than the factory spec due to the vastly delivery rate of the K-jet pump) whereas Jem's factory ECU is likely setup to suit the pressure/flow delivery of the Digi-style fuel pumps, ie too long a pulse width and hence too much fuel delivered.
I suspect that has a major bearing on things and it's likely that you are both right. For now Jem might be better going down the Digi-pump or adjustable FPR route.
Hi Craig,
the amount of fuel going into the engine, is a controlled by the FPR, the FPR holds a constant pressure drop over the injector between the fuel rail and the inlet manifold, because of this the injector open time is the only factor that controls how much of fuel is injected.
so to conclude, the Fuel flow rate will affect the rate of pressure rise/drop in the fuel rail, and not the amount of fuel being injected. the pressure is the important parameter.
cheers
I haven't had the time to fit the O2 sensor yet. Other things have been more important like fluffing around being a dick.
What if the FPR is fully backed up and its still not enuf. I am gona do O2 sensor, fit digi pump cause its easy and maybe even fit a after market FPR that has more ability.
ive got the ring even Noel Im just taunting you, i even have a mig and a drill ;D
if you change the fpr setting without adjusting the ECU, the fueling is innefective...
Which is kinda what I was trying to say/ask in my non-expert manner. That's the skill in being an Engineer - knowing how to put things so succinctly. ;D
Ok I will leave the FPR.
And GTI is a prick so why wouldn't say so, and if people wana forward the pms thats cool they will find out in their own good time. :)
This thread is a great promotion for ECO motors!
Yep shows you never know it all till you've done it eh. ;)
And how busy Eco motors is, I never get a chance to do my own stuff. :P
Get back in your cage.
Quote from: typ53 on December 01, 2008, 05:41:24 AM
Which is kinda what I was trying to say/ask in my non-expert manner. That's the skill in being an Engineer - knowing how to put things so succinctly. ;D
ah, my bad.... :)
Eco motors have done GREAT work on my vehicles.
:o
Thanks Karl. I do my best. :)
And if i get problems I deal with them.
Woohoo ::)
ANYWAY...............
::) ::) ::) ::)
I fitted the O2 sensor.....................just the same :( But i kinda thought it would be. I'm of the mind to fit a digi mk2 pump. Who's got one?
BOB You gave me a mk4 O2 sensor which is short and wide band? And the normal mk3 one is just short? You don't think that could be whats confusing the relay that buzzes? Cause im not sure, because the buzzing relay is the preheater relay for the o2 and also for the fuel pump, if the o2 is actually working properly. Should the preheater make the o2 sensor hot with the ignition on?
Thanks for the help everyone.
If I cant find a mk 2 didgi i will just get my electrician to order a after market fuel pump.
Also anyone got a normal mk3 O2 sensor? or an answer regarding the possible difference in a mk 3 VS 4 ones being wide and narrow band rather than just narrow? .... Im not really up to date on O2 sensors and would love some help on this.
jem
I've got one out of an Audi 100 if that will help Jem. It's narrow band, but I don't pretend to know if there are any significant differences between it and the mk3 one.
As an alternative to your digi pump etc what about an adjustable FPR with 3-5 bar pressure? Like this one? (http://www.intengineering.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/vpid/5720659/vpcsid/0/SFV/32093)
Have you checked your fuel pressure YET !!. I don,t see what all this talk is about without first checking to see if you have a problem. Just go buy a 0-100psi gauge, some simple fittings (T) to allow it the be added into the fuel line and check away.
You got one i can borrow BOB? Im out that way tomorow as im going to get the digi pump off choppys car with him.
Or where do you think i could buy a 0-100 psi gauge from? I have seen various testers around but they say not for CIS.
Even tho i know that Noel and Nasty have their cars running with cis pumps, Verts car had the same problem mine does, just stinks of fuel and his pump was too powerful.
The FPR on the ABF engine is a pretty small little thing and could easily be jammed right back.
The thing is i don't want that much pressure in my hose clipped lines anyway so I will fit the digi pump regardless.
You are right BOB a pressure test would be good.
It starts and i move it around my garden its just stinking rich and wont idle and blows smoke.
Jeremy, it doesnt matter if the fuel pump is too powerfull, which i doubt, the fuel pressure regulator bypasses fuel back to the tank( as long as the return pipe is not blocked,full of crap or something else)
Well how come Verts car went all rich and stunk of fuel then? He swapped the pump for the correct one and his problem was solved.
The FPR on my ABF is a spring that sits in the fuel rail and relives pressure that way. It dosen't open a second return to allow the fuel to pass back to the tank, the fuel just does that anyway after it has flowed through the rail.
My return is not blocked.
You are wrong. The fuel pressure valve does relieve pressure back to the tank via the return hose. It also has a vacuum hose attached which increases the fuel pressure when you put your foot down. ie adjusts the fuel pressure to suit engine load.
Quote from: BOB on December 09, 2008, 12:03:21 PM
You are wrong. The fuel pressure valve does relieve pressure back to the tank via the return hose. It also has a vacuum hose attached which increases the fuel pressure when you put your foot down. ie adjusts the fuel pressure to suit engine load.
yup adjusts the rail pressure to have a constant pressure drop over the injector
Just get a digi pump and it will be sorted, kjet pumps out a huge amount of fuel and too much to be regulated
I knew that the fuel returns to the tank but it does it at the end of the rail anyway even if the pump is correct pressure for the engine. they always have excess pressure that need to be bypassed.
Switch the ignition on and without starting the motor you hear the noise of a lot of fuel flowing through the fuel rail and back to the tank.
if i had a second FPR sat before the rail with an extra return line to the tank i could adjust the flow to what a standard mk3 efi pump would flow. But i don't and I would rather just fit a digi pump.
I would like to measure the pressure as it is now obviously but I don't have a tool.
I am in no way complaining about the help i have received over this swap but i have been given many different views, many saying it will be the O2 sensor and BOB saying it wont be, Its not. And some having no probs with over fueling using the wrong pump and some that have.
The O2 sensor is fitted, didn't help. The FPR is built into the rail and is definitely "bypassing" plenty of fuel. I think its jammed wide open and its still too high.
I don't want the extra pressure and i dont mind fitting a digi pump.
i would however like to know more about the different O2 sensors, is the mk 4 one preheated as well or am i shoving 12 volts into the wide band wires?
Quote from: vag_nutter on December 09, 2008, 05:58:11 PM
Just get a digi pump and it will be sorted, kjet pumps out a huge amount of fuel and too much to be regulated
Yes I think this is the problem, and many others do too.
And as said who wants 70 odd psi of fuel in there lines they don't need.
Quote from: BB on December 09, 2008, 05:59:03 PM
I knew that the fuel returns to the tank but it does it at the end of the rail anyway even if the pump is correct pressure for the engine. they always have excess pressure that need to be bypassed.
Switch the ignition on and without starting the motor you hear the noise of a lot of fuel flowing through the fuel rail and back to the tank.
if i had a second FPR sat before the rail with an extra return line to the tank i could adjust the flow to what a standard mk3 efi pump would flow. But i don't and I would rather just fit a digi pump.
I would like to measure the pressure as it is now obviously but I don't have a tool.
I am in no way complaining about the help i have received over this swap but i have been given many different views, many saying it will be the O2 sensor and BOB saying it wont be, Its not. And some having no probs with over fueling using the wrong pump and some that have.
The O2 sensor is fitted, didn't help. The FPR is built into the rail and is definitely "bypassing" plenty of fuel. I think its jammed wide open and its still too high.
I don't want the extra pressure and i dont mind fitting a digi pump.
i would however like to know more about the different O2 sensors, is the mk 4 one preheated as well or am i shoving 12 volts into the wide band wires?
if the FPR is jammed, then putting in the digi pump wont help...
with either situation, the pressure will just build up, against a brick wall (closed FPR), however the pressure rise rate will be higher with the K-jet pump.
Jammed open with too much pressure Nigel, but the hole still isn't big enough to siphon enough fuel out of the rail.
Hey we might be wrong, but its not jammed shut and a digi pump WILL be better for my system and PROBABLY will fix my problem.
It runs good other wise, real good exhaust note, quiet but then a real good rasp.
This does not make sense Jeremy, are you sure you didnt transpose the supply and return pipes
Quote from: qta4 on December 09, 2008, 06:42:01 PM
This does not make sense Jeremy, are you sure you didnt transpose the supply and return pipes
if that happened, then fuel would not get to the rail.
Just thinking out loud Nigel, it does not make a lot of sense to me.
You cannot fit a digi pump!!!!. They have their own lift pump in the tank which supplies a lot of fuel at low pressure to the main pump which sits in it,s own remote tank. There is a one way valve at the bottom of the remote tank. Will you modify your main tank and fit a lift pump or change the remote tank somehow so the main pressure pump never runs out of fuel ?. Best option would be to fit a common fuel pump from say a HOLDEN commodore which runs EFI and has exactly the same style pump (as in physical size and hose fittings ) as the MK1 runs. Easy as and I am sure that a quick trip to pick apart will see you with one. But I would be fitting a fuel pressure gauge to see first if you have a problem. I have run the k-jet pumps in cars that have had a DIgifant engine fitted. I still think something else is wrong
Quote from: qta4 on December 09, 2008, 06:58:54 PM
Just thinking out loud Nigel, it does not make a lot of sense to me.
yea, neither, but i have not looked at ut yet, just throwing ideas, hopefully i'll have some time to get to Jem
What sort of pressure does the ABF require Bob, i am using a Standard Mk1 CIS pump with a 4 bar fuel pressure regulator, wouldnt make any difference if i was running a 3 bar or even a 2 bar regulator, i am sure the fuel would just go around and around.
I have not yet tried my car with a 5 bar fuel pressure regulator, as my 440cc injectors supply enough fuel for my engine.
Its amazing really, a std Mk1 fuel pump, and original as well, supplies enough fuel for my current engne, and about 220-300bhp ;D
And my car idles really good too
And Bob has just done this conversion into a Mk2, very similar cars to any Mk1.
So maybe it does not have anything to do with fuel, maybe its something like a temp sensor that thinks car is frozen, or maybe wiring loom is all damned up
Damn, it sounds as if you may need to 'start over'. Go through the entire installation as if it was never done; undo things, redo things, etc. Very frustrating thing to do, and emotionally crushing, but you've heard all the advice. I've been here before Jem. Actually, Noel was very helpful last time ;)
Thanks BOB Good info a holden pump it will be.
And yes Noel your right the fuel should just go round and round but any pressure has to come from flow resistance somewhere and maybe that is too much in my case.
BOB has fitted a ABF but it still has the K-jet, unless hes fitted the ECU and EFI now?
Your very possiblyright that it is something else. i am still a little unsure about wheather the O2 sensor is getting its signal read properly and if its being preheated.
i would like to work along side a abf mk3 and see if i get the same power at the same places etc.
As said im still unsure about the mk4 vs mk3 O2 sensor.... but bob gave me it so ....
and BOBs advice is also that the ecu wouldnt make it run stinky rich even if it wasnt connected so i dunno....
Im real glad for the help I am getting from you guys now tho cause it real close to going.
It dosent show any fault codes up.
And Dennis i dont think i need to pull it all apart ;) i just need to find out what it is that not right. most of what i have done is right or it wouldn't go or power up the vagcom etc.
Quote from: BB on December 09, 2008, 09:53:01 PM
Thanks BOB Good info a holden pump it will be.
And yes Noel your right the fuel should just go round and round but any pressure has to come from flow resistance somewhere and maybe that is too much in my case.
BOB has fitted a ABF but it still has the K-jet, unless hes fitted the ECU and EFI now?
Your very possiblyright that it is something else. i am still a little unsure about wheather the O2 sensor is getting its signal read properly and if its being preheated.
i would like to work along side a abf mk3 and see if i get the same power at the same places etc.
As said im still unsure about the mk4 vs mk3 O2 sensor.... but bob gave me it so ....
and BOBs advice is also that the ecu wouldnt make it run stinky rich even if it wasnt connected so i dunno....
Im real glad for the help I am getting from you guys now tho cause it real close to going.
It dosent show any fault codes up.
And Dennis i dont think i need to pull it all apart ;) i just need to find out what it is that not right. most of what i have done is right or it wouldn't go or power up the vagcom etc.
yea, its just something small.... have you checked the air temp, water temp sensors, are not mixed up? i will try and come around this weekend Jem, however im no expert on this sort of stuff.
Ha, ha, ha :D Not pull it apart, but go over every element thinking about it from scratch to see if there are any faults with the logic you used assembling it, or any minor faults (air leaks, cross threaded elements, etc.) that might resolve the issue. It seems you could have either a mechanical or electrical fault.
Thanks Nigel a fresh young mind like your might be all i need. its a bit of a drag cause its all running and all with new exhaust and springs etc.
Im being all oh well it will happen when it happens but really im hanging out to have a drive and just trying not to bum myself out :) :P
If the coolant sensor wasn't working I still don't think it would run this rich ???
I actually cant remember which ECU I have in it the one i got with the engine or the second one BOB brought over?
they were both ABF ecus tho wernt they BOB? Oh yea and Ill bring that other one back when I get a chance ;)
Get off the computer and get that car going. Does your new scanner read live readings. ie, can you go into and see what the temp gauge is telling the engine ECU.
im off to a party now ha ha,
Been doing suby turbo clutches, vectra V6 steering racks and rebuilding mitzi engines this week.
I will try and see if it does that, im not sure it does tho. might get craig over here with his vagcom again while its running.
And have you guys got a pressure gauge I can borrow?
You should get your camera fixed as well, pictures always make reading easier!!!
I guess so softlad :), my camera does work tho ??? I got a new sony the other day and i have my ph one as well.
Im a bit lazy, as i know how much more i enjoy and feel like following/helping a person who bothers to entertain with photos an all :)
So i will get some up.
Not sure i can take a picture of whats wrong with it tho :P
Its running to rich, it stinks of fuel, wont idle and blows smoke but revs like snot if you gas it. I'm stuck again.
And i don't have time or money to just spend the time dedicated to just fixing that.
I wish I had a mk3 gti thAT I COULD PARK NEXT TO WITH A VOLT METER AND GO OVER ALL THE points Im haveing a prob with and see what gets what where and when.
You will never learn if you just swap stuff. Learn what is wrong with your car as sometime in the future you will need it to fix a customers car.
Its always alot harder doing it for the first time esp if you didnt pull the loom out
Just sell the Mk1 and buy a corolla Jeremy, at least it will go without any drama, so long as you dont touch it. ;D
Quote from: qta4 on December 15, 2008, 06:48:29 PM
Just sell the Mk1 and buy a corolla Jeremy, at least it will go without any drama, so long as you dont touch it. ;D
lol
If I swap stuff and find out what is wrong I will have fixed it and will have learned what part of the system is responsible for making it so rich.
I mean what else can I do ???
I will do a pressure test if you ever answer if there is a pressure tester i can borrow rather than have to go out and make one.
And I am waiting for a time me and type53 can run it with the vagcom so I can see what my coolant temp etc is up to. Because I never got the vagcom I was going to get. The Rosstec one i will get sometime but i dont think that is really stopping me. Craig will help.
I am still unsure what is wrong with the 109 relay and why it buzzes as it does. I would like to see what power goes to this and when. I would also like to simply swap it and see if its the relay its self. Or do you think i should make an in depth study of the relay its self?
Its for the fuel pump and the o2 preheater, I would have thought that would be enough.
It may be to do with the fact its not powering the pump now and has an unusual earthing system. i have the wiring diagram....it all gets a little tricky and i could use a hand there i guess.
Anyway You BOB have told me that the thing will run ok without that stuff even connected. This is stinky smoky rich.
I will hunt down a holden pump soon, that info and Idea i have only just quite recently "learned" ;) and i am glad I didn't jump into farting around with the digi pumps as i wondered about the lifter pump bit as i think i said.
Yes It is frustrating that my car isn't going right but i have got plenty done over the time the exhaust is done the springs are in the engine is in and it runs :)
I know the way i have installed it is sound I have done it the easiest possible way using everything just as it is in the mk3 with brown an black wires earthed and power added where power was. There is nothing from the new system powering the old and nothing from the old attached to the new. It is completely simple to understand and work on at the moment.
From the info on vask I have got that it might be the coolant sender but BOB you say all those things wont really make it that rich.
the only person who has had the same experience of stinking smokey rich is Vert and it was because he had a over powered pump.
I will be fitting a correct pump for the system. I will run vagcom and check coolant senders etc, I will use "substitution" to test and get to the bottom of this 109 relay.
I don't think I'm doing to bad, theres a lot to learn :) Like how to do a GT Subaru pull clutch :P
Hands up who's done those? and the quadcam cambelts ;) refitting the intercooler ;D Easy now. Mitzi GDI heads cause people use a standard sparkplug socket and get it stuck and thread the hole out ;D ;D ;D :laugh: :laugh: Oh its all such fun.
Rebuilt a mitzi engine this week as well 285,000 kms and a wee hone and new rings, big ends and bit of work on the head and shes good as new ;) just still blowing all the crap out of its exhaust tho :P :P :P had me worried id mucked up but theres no blow by so it is just that......ah cars.
What is wrong with the original Mk1 fuel pump Jeremy, i dont believe that that pump would not do the job admirally.
The fuel pump just pumps the fuel round and around and around and around and around and around and around and around, god i get dizzy
Lazy is a dangerous word. Doesn,t sit right with someone who is too busy to help someone who is too lazy to help themselves
oh good grief ::)
Too lazy to put up some more pics,of stuff i have already put pics up of. Except my exhaust.
And you just cant seem to find the ability to even say "yes we do have a pressure tester you can borrow so you can check if the pressure is ok"
Comments like the last one really get my back up.
How many vaskers have helped somebody put a 200 trans in for there saturday recently?
To be honest nobody but vert and Craig has been a shred of help.
I spent most of this build waiting for my key code to be redone which you couldn't do after selling me a loom with all those bits missing so lets not start >:( you been listening to your lap dog to much?
Vask is a bunch of s**t these days.
Quote from: BB on December 16, 2008, 08:29:28 AM
oh good grief ::)
Too lazy to put up some more pics,of stuff i have already put pics up of. Except my exhaust.
And you just cant seem to find the ability to even say "yes we do have a pressure tester you can borrow so you can check if the pressure is ok"
Comments like the last one really get my back up.
How many vaskers have helped somebody put a 200 trans in for there saturday recently?
To be honest nobody but vert and Craig has been a shred of help.
I spent most of this build waiting for my key code to be redone which you couldn't do after selling me a loom with all those bits missing so lets not start >:( you been listening to your lap dog to much?
Vask is a bunch of s**t these days.
who's a lapdog?
makes you a Rat!
and those are the days of our lives (cue music)
Harsh words are spoken,
promises are broken,
old wounds are opened and love walks out the door..... out the door oooor oooooor
:D
Quote from: BB on December 16, 2008, 08:29:28 AM
oh good grief ::)
Too lazy to put up some more pics,of stuff i have already put pics up of. Except my exhaust.
And you just cant seem to find the ability to even say "yes we do have a pressure tester you can borrow so you can check if the pressure is ok"
Comments like the last one really get my back up.
How many vaskers have helped somebody put a 200 trans in for there saturday recently?
To be honest nobody but vert and Craig has been a shred of help.
I spent most of this build waiting for my key code to be redone which you couldn't do after selling me a loom with all those bits missing so lets not start >:( you been listening to your lap dog to much?
Vask is a bunch of s**t these days.
Talk to John, Frank Pronk has a pressure tester. Or go see Frank directly. Hes a nice guy & he loaned it to me....
the most common use of the term "rat" when used to describe a human is in reference to someone who threatens to, or actually does "nark" on someone to the authorities.... and generally about something that has nothing to do with them personally.......i.e not someone who legitimately calls the cops about a crime commited against them personally....such as threats of assault or refusing to return property etc ::)
you know the sort of winners...those who threaten to nark to the cops about someone selling the odd bit of weed to their mates or calling the council about the un-regoed neighbours car that has been out on the street for a few days whilst waiting parts for a WOF (strange how my neighbours garden seems to be struggling this summer).... or the pathetic "P" user who cant keep their temper under control and make ridiculous illogical threats to people when they are strung out....the sad little tossers like this generally wake up to the reality of their actions and or threats when karma is delivered via some not too subtle reminders of what William S Burroughs once said....."an old junk dealer once told me..."Know whose money you are picking up"...."...
i'd be surprised/disappointed if there were any such "Rats" around here..... ;D
Quote from: gti vr6 on December 16, 2008, 09:29:14 AM
and those are the days of our lives (cue music)
Harsh words are spoken,
promises are broken,
old wounds are opened and love walks out the door..... out the door oooor oooooor
:D
LOL, you are a funny guy ;D
Quote from: gti vr6 on December 16, 2008, 09:29:14 AM
and those are the days of our lives (cue music)
Harsh words are spoken,
promises are broken,
old wounds are opened and love walks out the door..... out the door oooor oooooor
:D
And what other soaps do you watch ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: qta4 on December 16, 2008, 06:39:49 PM
And what other soaps do you watch ;D ;D ;D ;D
Well Vask is the main one :D
Yeah , this place is entertainment unlimited at times ,Eh,espescially when Jeremy does his thing.
Just wish he would complete this project
But Noel I NEED you to help me ;D
I was running it yesterday, and i know how the fuel is supposed to go round and round, but FPR's can be over powered as Vert has said and i really cant think of anything else that could cause such richness. Stinking smelly richness that just seems to get worse the longer it runs.
I know plenty of folk that would be driving it round like this and thrash the crap out of it but i don't want to I will just foul my new expensive 3 prong plugs.
And you know the most interesting thing is that yea I want it to go and to sort this problem but im sick of beating myself up over things so im just being patient and ....well i was waiting to see if i could borrow a pressure tester off BOB but thats not happening now, but I'm more than happy to visit my old friend Frank Pronk who I have known far longer than any of these other VW people.
I can also pick up my creeper that i left out at Pushbuttons mechanics where I so lazily helped him remove and shove a trans in last week.
You know out of all the things I've done for Vaskers over the years it really does crap me when people try and have a go.
I mean who needs that crap on here eh ::)
I don't care tho, I got more supporters than I could ever need.
Thanks to those guys. :)
Well Jeremy, like i said b4, the fuel pressure regulator is either 3 bar ,4 bar or something like that, the vacuum hose that goes onto the reglulator will pull back pressure under vacuum, and enrichen fuel under boost, so i assume you have vacuum line on this regulator.
Failing that , i have no idea why car is so rich
Idle musing for the EFi-gurus amongst us here: I know that a dodgy water temp sensor can cause lean mixture at idle and rough running, could the converse also be true? Would a dodgy temp signal cause rich running at idle?
I will check to make sure I have a vacuum line to there but i think i do as that is part of the motor that I didn't even have to touch.
If Vert hadnt had the same experience with a over powered pump i wouldnt think it could be this either, but i believe him.
Can only tell you what I found, 1.8T pump in a 1600 runs like crap. Installed corect pump, problems gone.
Quote from: vert1 on December 17, 2008, 04:27:15 PM
Can only tell you what I found, 1.8T pump in a 1600 runs like crap. Installed corect pump, problems gone.
Was the 1600cc engine k-jet?
if so , then k-jet requires higher fuel presure not less
Quote from: qta4 on December 17, 2008, 05:18:39 PM
Was the 1600cc engine k-jet?
if so , then k-jet requires higher fuel presure not less
I think it was a Mk4 or maybe a Mk3.
MK4,
I think Vert put a mk4 gti pump into a 1.6 mk4 golf and it ran rich. both were EFI.
Look maybe when your 1.8t motor has its FPR being opened by your old mk1 pump the hole is big enough to siphon off the excess fuel.
Maybe the ABF fuel rails return hole is to small to handle the K-jet pressure.
I'm going to get my auto sparky to order me a efi inline pump Tomorow.
And who knows what magic will prevail.
Like I have heard somewhere "nothing beats experience"
I will get it going.
I've not got a lot of money at the moment And it still needs money so ......
I dont believe that Jeremy, The Mk1 fuel pump in your car will surely do the job,
I dont know why you have all the drama
What do you mean do the job? That its up to the delivery? You cant understand that the FPR might be being overcome and unable to let enough fuel bypass?
How do explain Verts experience then? His rail was obviously being over powered. It can happen.
It is stinking raw fuel smelling rich, from what BOB says the ecu will not do that simply because the O2 sensor isnt working or even if a coolant sensor was bung. Sure it would run rich like it was cold but not this rich.
I will be fitting a more standard pressure fuel pump for safety and for peace of mind.
Yes I will be a bit bummed if it dosen't cure my problem, but i will know its not that and move on.
I was told by my engine guys that a faulty injector or injectors can cause this as well.
I am slow to do these things and was hoping i could get a day in tomorrow with Craig but Ive got to go fit a fuel pump into Holden :P
Its a tank out job too... no such luxury as a work hatch on those baby's tho I have heard its not to bad a tank to drop.
Then i have to go finish up a Vectra cambelt and a subaru cam cover cause I got sold the slightly wrong one out of the 17 different ones they have ??? ??? TRUE, then its onto an old falcon to fit rear seat belts and brakes. Im not lazy. I sometimes get sick of cars and don't feel like doing mine tho.
i know that if the air temp sensor is faulty/not connected the car runs rich and spark advance suffers...
Yep temp sensor is on the list. Any one got a manual that says how to test these? Is there a simple OHMs reading that you take?
Quote from: BB on December 18, 2008, 09:11:41 PM
What do you mean do the job? That its up to the delivery? You cant understand that the FPR might be being overcome and unable to let enough fuel bypass?
No actually Jeremy, i can't understand that.
NOT AT ALL
Something must be wrong with you then, its quite easy to see where he has come to this conclusion from,
Really, you obviously have a greater knowlege than me.
I will just wait for the conclusion then, should be in about 7 years
Quote from: BB on December 19, 2008, 08:42:00 AM
Yep temp sensor is on the list. Any one got a manual that says how to test these? Is there a simple OHMs reading that you take?
leave it in ambient conditions, take a reading, then put it in hot water, take a reading, then cold water, take a reading.
you are measuring resistance. you should be able to plot a reasonably linear response with a some deflection.
whoops, you are plotting temp vs resistance, and it needs to be drawn to a scale for each axis.
Should be able to measure the resistance and check it against this graph, (graph is for a mk2 but I think mk3 is the same)
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi226.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd213%2FCrash_081%2Fdigifantcltandiatresistancewl5.jpg&hash=5bac204cf1fbc7f8db8fd84b519f73aaf2d953c3)
or put a resistor with the correct Ohms for the outside temp accross the connector plug and see if that works... sounds like your issue is more than just a faulty coolent temp sensor tho, but might be worth a try
i think its the air temp sensor
I guess you have some difficulty's then Noel as most everyone else who I have said this too understands. I will ignore the rest as I'm getting sick of getting everyone backs up, tho nobody seems to care about mine but hey thats normal.
I thought Vask was were we shared info and ideas and helped people who have engine probs not give them crap and hassle them when they get stuck or don't have time and money to complete things ??? We can have our fights over politics but why over the cars?
If you want to call me a useless prick just do that and make yourself clear.
If anyone else has anything mildly crapty to say regarding this build, how bout keeping it to yourselves. I NEVER rag on peoples efforts.
I actually did all the bits that i could do very quickly after getting sold a loom with half the bits missing and then got told by another member they would sell me a vagcom that never happened, so i could key code the bits i put together, then others came and couldn't do it and never came back and blamed it on my wiring when low and behold Craig came and did it in an hour. Thanks Craig you were awesome.
I have explained in great detail my problems with the O2 sensor which some people were so sure was going to fix it, made no difference.
Admittedly the O2 sensor may not be working correctly as I have explained but nobody seems to know any more about this things workings than i do.
Fuel rails DO get over powered as was the case in Verts car, so how this can still be so confusing to some remains a mystery.
Thank you very much to the folk who have helped me with this new info as to how I can test my temp sensor ;D ;D This is why I am still here, considering the rest of the crap.
Tho i have been led to believe by people who are not stupid that the ecu should be able to run the engine without all this and it wouldnt be this rich.
i mean if the damn thing was set to full choke and I start it cold it should start and idle high with a rich exhaust like a normal euro which is pretty rich, ive been in small dutch streets which someone starting there pig BMW before Im a frickin mechanic I work every day fixing cars and this is RICH.
I want to swap the pump to a less powerful one, haven't had the time and my obligations lie else where.
i got a few mopeds and a truck that i get the bums about too, but i love them all and i wish i was richer and had more time more than anyone, in the end its a hobby and there just cars.
Hey Jem - cool project - Love reading the posts - but must admit I am mildly entertained by the tense postings.. I know that's bad.
Having driven your car before, can only imagine how much fun it will be with the 16V hauling it's light ass into hyper drive. I personally think you've managed to turn this around pretty quickly - and you are sooooo close - it is obviously something fuel or electrical and it wont be long till you crack it.
This is definitely not a cheap option - but if I had a Mk1 I would want to be strapping twin webbers onto her to keep her real for the period and the raw Horsies - I know that doesn't answer any technicalities - but damn - can you imagine the noise and the fuel bill ? ! ?
A good bit of Barney is always fun to watch ;D :P
Yes I'm pretty happy at how I have gone considering the bits that have been out of my control until I give up on one avenue and chase down another.
I can start it and move it round mey property fine and its good but it blows loads of blue smoke. Gets worse when warms up not better.
I got some more 13inch 7 inch wide rims given to me the other day as well.
They are special ones that say VW around them as the spokes kinda. damnit I will do some photos.
:)
Blowing loads of blue smoke? Yikes - You don't get blue from bad mixtures - you get that from oil burning... It sounds like that donk may be well worn?
Have you done a compression test > perhaps the problem lies internally
I think the motor is ok it stinks of fuel, and it has been sittiing for ages and hasnet had a chance to really blow its blues out and is getting flooded every time it starts.
but she just bursts into life and spins like a top.
heres the mags.
Quote from: vert1 on November 22, 2008, 10:44:18 PM
MK1 pump will deliver way more pressure and volume than MK3 GTI pump, even if the pressure reg does regulate pressure there's still way more volume.
Do a fuel pressure test to check, I'd say install the correct pump and your probems will dissapear.
I had a 1600cc MK4 a while back with a seized pump, installed a MK4 GTI one that I had and the thing ran way rich/stunk of fuel. All resolved by installing the correct pump for that engine.
I think this is a red herring here, i really dont think that the Mk1 fuel pump has any responsibility to car running rich, or is it oil smoke.WTF
The reason i stated this is because.
At start up,ignition on,engine not running, fuel pump is running at full pressure,relief valve is bypassing fuel at the rate the fuel pressure regulator is set to .
No more fuel will be available at the fuel rail than what regulator will allow.
I suggest that i could fit a Bosch 44 race fuel pump to my car and i would not notice any bad running,certainly nothing like Jeremy is experiencing.
So now that has been sorted, maybe the fuel smell is something else.
The way i would attack this problem ,is to check engine temp sensor,water temp sensor,MAF and MAP sensor if fitted.
THe basic engine (if in good and servicable condition).will run fine.
Can only tell you what I did in my case and that was the case, fixed the car for good. fact.
Not saying this is whats wrong with BB's car but if it were me I would fit specified pump for the ABF engine or even easier do fuel press test to confirm before spending any cash as I have suggested before.
Blue smoke does indicate oil however. If there's that much fuel going in you could be bore washing it which is no good at all for the engine.
I would have bought complete setup right from the start, but thats just me.
Quote from: vert1 on December 20, 2008, 05:53:32 PM
Can only tell you what I did in my case and that was the case, fixed the car for good. fact.
Not saying this is whats wrong with BB's car but if it were me I would fit specified pump for the ABF engine or even easier do fuel press test to confirm before spending any cash as I have suggested before.
Blue smoke does indicate oil however. If there's that much fuel going in you could be bore washing it which is no good at all for the engine.
I would have bought complete setup right from the start, but thats just me.
Have you been able to verify what happened in your case John?
No need to, car is running properly and sold now.
Let me ask this question, why would VW bother to make a bunch of different pumps if one size fits all did the job?
Again, not saying this is BB's issue but.....
Quote from: vert1 on December 20, 2008, 06:07:27 PM
No need to, car is running properly and sold now.
Thats cool John, really just trying to find the reason why Jeremy is having so much grief with this simple conversion ???
Actually now that you got me thinking about this again :-\
I did scan it after it ran badly with the 1.8T pump and I did get a rich mixture fault on Vag-com.
Re scan, clear fault after correct pump fitted - never anymore problem and sold car.
I am starting to think that poor Jeremy has not been sold the stuff he needed to get this job done
Isnt the FPR on the fuel rail? So the fuel enters the rail and the FPR at the end of the rail vents excess fuel if it needs too? FPR can be over powered if they cannot vent the excess fuel fast enough. This is simple engineering and if it was being overpowered then it would make the car run very rich.
All this is frustration, and I do appreciate that other minds are working this over and wanting to also know the answers, A simple pressure test will give us the results, I am sorry I haven't been able to just do this yet. I will be over to ask Frank as soon as i can. however the gauge Karl would have borrowed would be for his mk3 and not able to deal with the K-jet but then again he will probibly have one for K-jet as well. If not i have seen a shop next to pickapart Avondale that says they do injection with a reference to K-jet.
The smoke the car blows is just smoke that stinks of ffuel its bluey white.
I bought a complete motor with loom and ecu, I trust that the engine was a good one when pulled from the car.
Unfortunately there was no black box or key reader and key and to make it all go together you needed the fuse box too.
I was given all this from a mk3 VR6. Its all been explained.
Alan did bring around a 2nd ECU, It was from a later car i think, maybe i have that in there now and i should refit thee other ecu.
I will do that tomorow.
Yes Noel it is a simple conversion and it required bugger all in the way of wiring skills i just added the power to the fuse box, and connected all the earths.
But when things are different and you get a problem it can be quite difficult to find out what it is.
People experience is the best way. Or substitution. If i had a ABF car here i could swap bits over and see if it cured it. So easy.
I simply haven't had the time to deal with it at the moment, and i have had to wait for things to happen. i could go out and sit in it and think about it now but i cant do nothing till a get a pressure gauge (Ill get the cool cheap one after I fit a proper pump. I will try and run the new pump from the mk3 fuse box through the o2 sensor preheater relay and blah blah to try and figure why i have a buzzing relay and no power at the preheater plug.
i have the wiring diagram, I study it and I would like to just make it all how it is on that diagram rather than try to work out does it matter if its not quite the same as that, cause its the only part of the engine loom and ecu loom that isn't just as it was.
So theres an avenue when I find the correct pump to use. It will be good as the telemetic cut out part of my mk1 pump system isn't working and I don't like the thought of dieing in a flame trap.
Tho i am to think that the lack of O2 sensor isnt able to make it this bad. Or temp sensor or AF or MAP.
What do you think of the mags? they are 13inch 7 wide babys, arnt those rare and cool for mk1s? :P
The Fuel Pressure Gauge that I borrowed from Frank is a multi adaption unit with loads of different fittings. It may work. John could answer that.
And yep those mags are awesome for FREE....
Simple solution Jem, go and buy a cheapo pressure gauge as in any gauge- dry or liquid filled from 0 to 150psi, some fuel line and hose clips and you will have a pressure gauge to test it with ;) (supercheap, mitre 10, anywhere)
You don't need any fancy gauge to do what you are wanting to test, there will be a nipple on the fuel rail to hose clip your fuel line/gauge onto.
Heck I used and old air compressor gauge as an oil pressure tester for years, infact I still use it today ;D
You think super cheap will have one? And yes you are correct it would be very easy to fit it into my system seeing as I have got everything just connected with hose and hose clips......I guess i could be labeled slow in this part of the project.... it will be done.
I an go to Blackwoods Paykels and pay more but get good stuff and be sure they will have what I need. Plus much else that i drool over, theres a lot to be said about the old school quality shops like Blackwoods, the tools are so nice.
Thanks Vert.
And Hans has kindly offered to send me his Vagcom set up for the hols and VaudiW is going to buy me a cable online from the place he got one so i dont have to bother joining up etc :) :)
Oh How i love Vask!
And jettacli is sending up a new window for the jetta for peanuts too all thanks to this website. ;D
A liquid filled gauge would be best as thge gycerine in the gauge stops vibration and makes it much easier to read without needle fluctuation.
What do you think will happen if you disconnect the temperature sensor ?
Not sure, do you think I should try it or are you going to offer some idea?
I am under the impression from you that it should run ok'ish even if the odd sensor is disconnected.
I would imagine if you disconected it it would run on the choke setting which would make it richer and idle higher.
But not choke its self to death on raw fuel.
My engine guys say it could be a rooted injector or two, but i trust that the engine you sold me was a good one and that sitting around for a while wont ruin an injector?
I would be more than happy if you felt like helping out again. All help till the conclusion is good.
I understand that it is up to me to get a few more things done now tho.
Well I think your wiring is going to be the problem. Most people would have sat down and worked out the power feeds and power supplies to the fuel pump relay etc that comes from the main ECU plug and spliced those wires into the existing wiring loom. From what I can gather you have added a MK3 fuse box in addition to the mk1 golf one and then just powered up the mk3 fuse box. All the engine loom is just ending going into the fuse box. Have you added an important earth wire to the fuse box. I think you will always have trouble this way and should sit down with a wiring diagram and do it what I would think is the proper way. You will learn alot about the way things work and will help you in the future. The engineers when they designed the engine management system where not stupid. When the temp sensor shorts or is open circuit the ECU will just know that the reading is wrong and pick a default setting that will allow the engine to run quite well. IE in the middle of the range. It will be too lean when cold and will not run as lean as it should when hot. What have you got to loose by trying the engine with the sensor disconnected. It,s the white 2 pin one on the end of the head next to the water outlet gearbox end.
You seem to be contradicting yourself a bit there BOB.
I can unplug that(temp sensor) for sure, will do it now.
But as you say if it was wrong the ecu would run lean when cold..... It ain't lean.
i was told the o2 sensor wouldn't make that much of a difference, by you again, and that is the only thing about the whole loom that i am having a bit of trouble with.
I can still add the fuel pump to be powered by the mk3 fusebox and loom. The way i have done it is exactly the same as if i had got rid of the old mk1 fuse box, I just dint have to fart around putting a dash in and rewire my window wipers and flashers etc ....
To be honest quite a few have said how they thought it was very clever how i have done it without having to do the whole thing for nothing.
And after being told that it was my wiring that made it not be able to be key coded and then had Craig come do it in 3o mins seems like maybe my wiring is just fine. I have learned plenty about the mk3 wiring loom and explained the problem regarding the fuel pump relay being a part of the O2 preheater system too. But all that does is power a fuel pump and power to the preheater....all stuff that wont make it stinking rich.
I have found a fuel pressure gauge now and will connect it soon.
Start putting all your posting time into that #$%@ car and tell us the result !!!! >:D
:D Ok Dennis.
Well I just connected the pressure gauge and its running at about 45psi. Is that what it should be? i thought it was supposed to be 14psi or around there but Noel says 3 - 4 bar which it is so?????? whats it supposed to be does anybody know?
And i disconnected the temp sender and it made no difference.
As for the O2 sensor it seems to be worse when the relay is in but its very difficult to tell.
It blows clouds of smoke :P maybe the engine is crap.
I haven't touched the dizzy, can you adjust the timing by turning the dizzy on these motors or are they crank controlled?
The idle switch was cracked when it was loaded into my trailor but I have done a test and it seems to work fine.
Quote from: BB on December 22, 2008, 02:27:19 PM
:D Ok Dennis.
Well I just connected the pressure gauge and its running at about 45psi. Is that what it should be? i thought it was supposed to be 14psi or around there but Noel says 3 - 4 bar which it is so?????? whats it supposed to be does anybody know?
Told you so,told you so ;D ;D
Those engines just don,t give trouble like you are having. 5 pages and we have finally worked out the fuel pump is ok and the fuel pressure is ok. Finally we can cross that off the list. See this is where I would just scan the car and go into live readings and look at the injecter pulse width and also the temp sensor reading and anything else that looked wrong and this is where experience comes into play by knowing which things are wrong. Injector pulse should be about 3- 3.5ms when warm. 17ms when cranking coming back to 14ms when started cold and anything inbetween cold and hot.
Frankly my dear I don,t give a damn
i like that
Skin,s getting thicker by the day
check the fuel pressure before fuel enters the rail, it should be close to the rated pressure of the FPR.
I agree it was frustrating not knowing the fuel pressure.....I did ask you about 3 or 4 times if you had a gauge I could borrow. Oh well I got one now.
So is 45psi ok for a ABF?
Bob I would be more than happy to send the car your way and pay for you too scan it as i know you have much good experience that i do not and simply have to ask on here for. As you say I could scan it with Vagcom but would i know what i was looking for? Its a big learning curve.
I am the first to admit I don't know everything.
I am well glad to have finally crossed the fuel pressure of the list if it is in fact ok at 45psi which by BOB comments it is :)
Thing is, I do deserve praise where praise is due, my wiring job is fine, if i have not done the o2/fuel pump wiring correctly yet it can easily be done now. Its just something i would like another mechanic to study the diagram with me and decide if it has to include the fuel pump as it does, if it does it can be done that way its just a matter of connecting those wires in as well.
I mean i did get the thing in an hooked up and running so Im not that stupid, and the fact that Craig got the key coding done so easy should make others just get on with the job rather than looking for a way to blame it on me. I mean fair is fair, I've copped a fair bit over this and its not been all my fault.
Quote from: NasTnaS on December 22, 2008, 06:51:17 PM
check the fuel pressure before fuel enters the rail, it should be close to the rated pressure of the FPR.
There is a plug halfway along the rail that you squeeze and unplug a bung and that is about the only place i can see you could add one unless i made up a t peice, which i guess i could.
As yet i do not know for fact what the ABF rail pressure should be exactly.
Is your 109 relay still buzzing, because if you dont have good earths, relays can back feed through various wiring and buzz.
So ,like Bob said, you are probably lacking a good earth to the Mk3 wiring.
Remember Jeremy, a relay with 12volts applied across it does not BUZZ
Quote from: BB on December 22, 2008, 07:17:49 PM
There is a plug halfway along the rail that you squeeze and unplug a bung and that is about the only place i can see you could add one unless i made up a t peice, which i guess i could.
As yet i do not know for fact what the ABF rail pressure should be exactly.
You can measure fuel pressure at any place on the input side of pressure rail, that is what is regulated
normally FPRs are rated in BARS. 1bar = 14.7psi.... or something like that....
says 3 bar, 44 odd psi its fine, doing its job fine it would seem.
So if its not too much pressure what the hell can it be?
I am very grateful for your return to this topic BOB as i know it may only be you who can help me.
I have gone back over all the things you have said and what is this important earth wire to the fuse box? I have earthed all the browns and blacks i have found coming from the fuse box.
I mean the way i have wired it isn't hard to understand at all.
I really cant understand how not having the fuel pump running of the mk3 fuse box/ecu could make it run rich ???
The wires only go through the ecu because of the safety feature in that if the engine stops it stops the pump. Maybe the o2 preheater has the same trigger so it dosen't sit there getting hot in a crash as well.
At worst the o2 sensors preheat isnt working and you have said the whole thing will run ok even without a o2 sensor.
I do have the wiring diagram and thats the only thing i can think its about.
I will check all the earths and try to understand this 109 relay a bit better.
Quote from: portmanteau on August 12, 2008, 12:51:46 AM
year by year, 93-97, here:
http://www.vwpower.be/techdocs.html
still Mitchell diagrams, but worth a look?
or these, engine mgmt only, 3 engine types incl. ABF:
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-1.gif
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-2.gif
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-3.gif
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-7.gif
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-8.gif
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-9.gif
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-4.gif
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-5.gif
www.an1.co.uk/Untitled-6.gif
Those were very slow to load - if you can't get them, I managed to save copies
This is the wiring diagram, the first lot of the bunches of 3. Can anyone who better than me at reading and understanding diagrams have a look and see if they think they know what is wrong with my buzzing 109 relay.
I guess the big question is now. Can a O2 sensor if its not working correctly (no preheater) make my car run this rich.
Some of you have said yes and BOB has said no.
Guess I gotta get the preheater going and wire the pump through he mk3 ECU eh.
I want to anyway, as the mk1s pump relay isnt of the auto shut off type anymore and i do think it is a necessary safety item :P
Don't want any of you guys burning your arms trying to drag me out of my inferno at a track day ever now do I.
I guess i got stuff to do still.
I mean i can get all that done easy enough and it has to be done, just unsure if thats why it spits smoke and stink.
If the O2 sensor has shorted yes it can stop or make the car run extremely rough. But if you disconnect the sensor the ECU will pick a DEFAULT value and the engine will RUN OK. You do not need a O2 sensor to make the car run, but it will help in the final state of tune. Later cars need a 02 sensor to run but not something this early.
Quote from: BB on December 23, 2008, 09:28:08 AM
I want to anyway, as the mk1s pump relay isnt of the auto shut off type anymore and i do think it is a necessary safety item :P
Don't want any of you guys burning your arms trying to drag me out of my inferno at a track day ever now do I.
The fuel pump safety thing with K-jet cars has to do with the fact that if the car rolled upside down, the fuel distributor diaphram will open, with the fuel pump still operating,fuel will still flow.
Not the same sort of problem with electronic injection tho.
The fuel pump in my car is wired directly, goes all the time
Shorted? How can they get shorted?
I have had it connected and disconected and its exactly the same.
Noel i think all electric fuel pumps on efi cars are connected in some way to the engine so they will shut down if the engine stops.
I have had to have s fewl airflow meters fixed on older toyotas that would have the fuel pump trigger burnt out.
If the car crashes and ruptures a fuel line and the pump dosen't shut down it will pump a lot of fuel in a short time while you may be too dazed to turn the ignition off.
Quote from: BB on December 23, 2008, 07:19:15 PM
Shorted? How can they get shorted?
I have had it connected and disconected and its exactly the same.
Noel i think all electric fuel pumps on efi cars are connected in some way to the engine so they will shut down if the engine stops.
I have had to have s fewl airflow meters fixed on older toyotas that would have the fuel pump trigger burnt out.
If the car crashes and ruptures a fuel line and the pump dosen't shut down it will pump a lot of fuel in a short time while you may be too dazed to turn the ignition off.
I think Bob was suggesting that the o2 sensor could have been faulty before you got it, it is after all a consumable part and has probably done lots of K's.
The point i was trying to get across was the bit about k-jet systems.
Yes you are right about the safety thing.
congrats for getting it started pal.those wheels are mean let me know if you ever want to sell em.
Thanks Choppy :) Ill see if i use them or not.
Got it started ages ago, just need to get it running good.
I got the o2 sensor off BOB from a mk4. It runs the same whether its plugged in or not.
Did you actually screw the sensor into the exhaust Jeremy.
I still think the engine temp sensor thinks the engine is frozen
Yes Noel, I did it, I fitted the o2 sensor into the exhaust. ;D
You may be right I have still got to do the temp sensor testing and i will also make sure it has power to it at all.
i get the feeling that if it was just set to choke it should do what cars do when there choke is on and that is bust into life and run at a fast idle.
Mine bursts into life, smells of unburt fuel out the exhaust blows smoke and stalls. If you keep your foot down a bit you can make it run at about 1200rpm almost an idle but its rough and choking up and when you rev it again it blows a big cloud again.
When you hold it at a steady 2500-3000 its still farting around a bit and keeps smoking too much really.
It is tractable tho as in it seems to have power, its no problem moving it around the lawn its not like you need to rev it then it pops and has no guts (lean).
Shall I leave it for a month or two and fluff around on an old moped? ;D :D
Just kidding.
Well,Jeremy,
I think your problem si a combination of O2 sensor and engine temp sensor.
Was the O2 sensor new?
Is engine water temp sensor in circuit and operating correctly?
Remember richness is.
1. Water temp sensor
2-wrong ecu
3-damned engine
4-o2 sensor damned
5-wiring damned up
6-water temp sensor
7-water temp sensor
8 wiring damned up.
9-engine damned
Do you notice any thing here?
These engines ,if in good condition, just run,really well
I don't think a damned engine will make it run rich :) They just rattle and smoke if stuffed.
It cant be the wrong ecu as its a abf ecu. I dunno its the one Platinum sold me with the engine.
It may be my wiring is slightly wrong regarding the O2, BUT BOB says that wont cause such excessive richness, unless its shorted and then he says it may run rough. I don't understand how it can be shorted.
If the temp sensor was not working and it was set to max choke it would run rich and idle higher.
Um haven't we been here a million times?
I have tried it with the temp plug off and it makes no difference.
Its difficult when one mechanic says that the ecu dosent need the o2 and will pick a default and also says the same about the temp sensor.
Do you not agree that if it was simply set to full choke it should run slightly rich at a higher idle, not blow loads of unburnt fuel and not idle at all?
Maybe the injectors are stuffed.
I tried to fit the other 97 abf ecu that BOB left here but it didn't work as its not been key coded ::) Bloody stupid immo's
ok, how about this, dont worry about what we say, and find out exactly how it works, from literature... just an opinion... :)
Quote from: BB on December 25, 2008, 10:22:10 AM
I don't understand how it can be shorted.
If the temp sensor was not working and it was set to max choke it would run rich and idle higher.
I have tried it with the temp plug off and it makes no difference.
I hope you have a very good multimeter Jeremy, both of these components can be checked with one.
The o2 sensor should put out about 0.5 volts, and the temp sensor , just measure and compare the resistance against the graph that was earlier posted.
The fact that the water temp sensor makes no difference ,plugged in or out, should ring alarm bells.
Also you say that if engine runs rich,it should idle faster,well with the efi engine it wont run faster, its not like a k-jet engine.
I could be wildly off the mark, but is it worth checking your timing if you haven't already?
I mean actually make your own static timing mark based off first cylinder TDC using a dial gauge and then use an adjustable timing light to get an accurate reading of what's actually happening?
It's only a thought, I had terrible trouble trying to get mine running right, was really really rich like it was an over fuelling issues. But in the end it was the static timing was way off in the ECU compared to the actual engine.
Probably not the case as your running factory ECU, etc but maybe worth checking, would only take say 10 minutes to do properly and then you can eliminate from your possible issues.
Thanks Robh I was wondering about timing hence my asking if they could be altered by turning the dizzy. I think they are crank triggered tho so .... I will turn the dizzy and see if it changes tho its hard cause it don't idle.
And Nigel If you have been following this you will know that i do listen and consider ALL the info that i get. Some of it is very contradicting with some saying it will run fine with or without a 02 and others like you saying it will all be the O2 sensor.
Thanks Noel I will check the voltage at the o2 now I have a measurement i can take, I do have a good multimeter.
And yes it makes alarm bells that it makes no difference with the temp on or off. They sound like this "whaaa whaaa why wont my car run properly whaaa whaa I do everything that i get told to do and it still wont run properly whaaa whaaa whaaa whaaa and everybody thinks Im hopeless whaa whaa Why dosen't the damn thing go? it needs to get next to a mk3 ABF so I can test and see where things arn't the same whaa whaa but its hard to get that opportunity sob sob and all the conflicting info makes my head spin whaa whaa whaa.
But thanks to all those who are trying to come up with ideas cause all ideas are welcome ;) :)
What about running it on K Jet and put that 5 pot 20v intake on it.
only need to turn up some seats for the injectors.
Allan's one goes extremely well!
Quote from: GTI's on December 27, 2008, 08:30:27 AM
What about running it on K Jet and put that 5 pot 20v intake on it.
only need to turn up some seats for the injectors.
Allan's one goes extremely well!
Nah
I think if you get a complete mk3 loom for the ABF you'll be sweet.
Too many joins and too many chances to short out or earth.
Got sold an engine and all the loom I need. Made it go didn't I ;) Just need to suss out the part thats not working correctly and it will be sweet.
Bugger all joins and all earths go to earth, no loose wires to short out. Or there would be sparks and burnt wiring.
Its a dud sensor or timing or ....
After you measure the water temp sensor,if ok, then measure back at the ecu, because the sensor could be good, but the ecu may not see it.
Im on it.
Well, Jeremy What is the guts
He,s working hard getting it ready for it,s BDO
Have been tidying up my garage so that when the Master (type53) comes over we are not tripping over my mess :P
He has been doing some fantastic research into my engine for me (I'm soooooo grateful) and from what he has been PMing me I think he is well onto something.
Will post up how it goes later.
We will get it sussed I'm sure, I'm so glad to get help like this as I am sometimes not that great at sifting through the endless info that is around, Craig is very very good at it.
Let's not count those chickens just yet, it's just google and sitting up in the early morning waiting for water to stop pouring out of the light fittings in my lounge, not me.
Quote from: typ53 on December 30, 2008, 10:11:57 AM
Let's not count those chickens just yet, it's just google and sitting up in the early morning waiting for water to stop pouring out of the light fittings in my lounge, not me.
GTIVR6 is a roof specialist.
Sucks to hear your gettin wet!
Sounds like my MK2 sunroof!
Turned out to be a burst water pipe. Two new holes in the ceiling to fix now. Feckin Buteline plastic fittings... (sorry to hijack Jem)
Worse still, I've just been called out to work so I'll have to stand you up Jeremy. Sorry.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Performance/Fuel-systems/auction-194736182.htm
Doesn't seem to be the pressure now but thanks.
Don't worry Craig Im sure we will work some more stuff out when you do get here.
We had a look today - the buzzing relay appears to be a VR6 ECU control relay rather than the ABF one needed. From random pics on the net it seems the pin configuration of the two are different so Jeremy is now on the hunt for a relay marked '30' or '32', part number 165 906 381.
The infamous #30 relay, buy a new one!
Don't mess around with a used one, they are responsible for a whole host of problems.
Wouldn't be at all surprised if thats not the cause of all your issues.
It will be the cause.
And to think people doubted my ability to do this and blamed my wiring and all sorts and really I had a pile of odds and ends to try and go through figuring out what was needed where. Alls well that ends well.
All I can say is a enormous thanks to Craig who instead of giving me crap just got in and we enjoyed the learning process together and understood each time what we were looking for. He is really such a nice guy and very good at searching for the right info and has a very good knowledge of logic. I would love to own a garage with him. He is like Rex, just awsum.
I have some issues possibly still to do with the fact that the wiring going to the O2 is VR6 as well as that was part of the loom I also had to pick from the VR6 so the wiring colours etc is different but hopefully I can work this out.
So I will buy a 30 relay and I'm thinking i will have a winner on my hands.
What does this relay do?
Supplies power to the ECU, when these play up not enough voltage is supplied to the ECU causing all kinds of bad running conditions.
Ah. Cool.
So by now i expect you have this car running,,yeah right ;D
Hopefully tommorow I will ring Qualitat and buy relay 30. Unless anyone else has got one?
Quote from: qta4 on January 04, 2009, 08:50:01 PM
So by now i expect you have this car running,,yeah right ;D
Give the poor guy a chance...we only found the relay was incorrect late on New Year's Eve :)
I wasnt trying to rev Jeremy, just that he doesnt seem to remember the advice given.
No one wants to see this project finish more than me.
What do mean remember what advice ???
And i think i want to see it go more than you Noel :)
Got the relay, but the car stopped running before i even got to fit it.
I started it to move it to fix another car, and it spluttered and moved then my grl tried to move it to do the lawn an hour later and it spluttered and didnt really start so i tried and it didnt go so I pushed it back in the drive and drained the oil that was now stinking of petrol and took the plugs out and tried to clen them down and fitted the new relay but it wont start still :P
i think i need new plugs.
i will wire the fuel pump into the mk3 fuse box as i have sorted that now and its working as it should be with a test lamp. And buy some new plugs and then FOOK I hope it goes!
Craig is hopefully coming tomorrow around 12 to help me vagcom it and do the introduction that is supposed to be done when a engine meets a ecu for the first time. Im not sure if this ecu is the one that came with the engine, i think it is, it was just the fuse box key and key reader and black box that came from a VR6.
Its such a simple thing and Im not surprised everyone over looked this. The new relay i got does have the prongs in the same place as the 109.
It only really came to lite when Craig knew where to find a good picture of the mk3 ABF fuse box with the relays all explained! I had thought the 109 was the fuel pump one :P
I really do hope it works now :P It doesn't seem to buzz like the 109.
Well thats really good news Jem.
By advice i mean, the fuel thing, it frustrated me when you went on and on about a fuel pump over powering a fuel rail.
It cannot happen. In fact if i fitted an 044 Bosch pump to my car , i would have no problems.
I look forward to some good news soon.
Well I don't think that was a case of not remembering it was just an idea that I had and others thought that that could happen as well.
You actually can over power a fuel rail but you were right, it wasn't the case this time ;)
It was you going on and on and on that it wasn't that, while i just waited till i got hold of a fuel pressure gauge and then crossed it off my list, nothing to do with memory! ;D
I so hope to have some good news, if not I will keep looking :P
Cant keep you in such suspense for so long now can i Noel ;)
Ok
reason it stopped was it was outa gas :laugh: :laugh: Didnt really take me long to sus that and it was the lil ladys first suggestion!
Could hear the fuel pump going but there was no swirling sound of petrol at the fuel rail.
New relay good no buzzing and not running rich. Was running a bit lumpy still but we figured it would sort itself out as it relearned and warmed up. And it did pretty much. It now runs real good and revs like a bitch.
It wont idle tho.
We spent ages in a complete comedy of errors and dud old computers needing key boards added and water hoses bursting exactly at the same time I was pointing at a bulge and saying i hope that dont pop and hit me in the face and then it did ??? ::) It was only the bottle to rad top thin hose tho. We then gave it a good cook (not bad, its a golf) as the fan wasn't kicking in till I wiggled the wires ::) Oh yea love that reliability! temp gauge not riged yet but it or oil pressure light but it kinda hard to get to that stuff till it idles so i can fart around with what sensor does what. We managed to get my laptop going with the vagcom and even tho we couldn't get the full program open we read the fault codes and it said the air flow temp was open circuit. Craig is gona search to see if he can find how to test this to see if its the part or "my wiring". Hes great that Craig, i tell ya i could not have got done what i have now got done without a hand.
If you ever do this you must get all the bits from one car. preferably one you have heard running first and have vagcomed with no faults. I am in an ok position tho as i have a brand new coil and a brand new crank sensor and brand new ecu relay, which is a good thing.
i will ring and see how much a air flow thing is tomorow, I hope that makes it idle.
Do you think my O2 is working or would that have thrown a code?
I know exactly how to wire my pump to run safely and will do that real soon.
I'm happy now its going good. i could put a blob of Kneedit on the throttle linkage and make it idle, we did have it idling for ages with a screwdriver wedged in against the idle switch (which makes a noticeable difference incidentally).
I wish I didn't have to go do other things now.
Good to see some progress Jem
I think we made good progress today too. The pipe bursting was kinda funny, a bit like watching a train crash in slow motion. I really enjoyed myself too. For some reason Jem didn't go for my suggestion to epoxy a stubby screwdriver to the throttle linkage...
It was a bummer my laptop decided to play silly buggers though, I'll try and get that sorted over the next day or so.
Quote from: typ53 on January 07, 2009, 08:35:19 PM
The pipe bursting was kinda funny, a bit like watching a train crash in slow motion. I really enjoyed myself
This is so entertaining, i cant wait for the next installment.
Seriously tho,
maybe Jem needs to get some good hoses and stuff, to get this project going ;D
Yeah, it's Dr Frankenstein's Golf, but in all honesty it's starting to look and sound really aggressive - big shiny tailpipe, great throaty throb from the exhaust, low low suspension, it's going to be quite a weapon.
It was a nice surprise to wander home with a box of cool amber coloured refreshments under my arm when all I'd really done was spend the afternoon working on my suntan and hanging out. Cheers Jem! You're a good bugger.
I think Dr Frankenstein is really good way to describe our Jeremy ;D ;D ;D
Frankenstien!
I'm insulted, its a work of great competence and skill! No expense spared! I am amazed the hose split like it did it was quite odd really ???
All my hoses are fairly new or nice and supple but hoses are like that.
nice, so jem wanna take on my car.... the jetta of course... :)
Yea man I do.
Quote from: BB on January 07, 2009, 09:11:51 PM
Frankenstien!
I'm insulted, its a work of great competence and skill! No expense spared! I am amazed the hose split like it did it was quite odd really ???
All my hoses are fairly new or nice and supple but hoses are like that.
Dr Frankenstein fits really, dont you think Jeremy ;D ;D
In the nicest possible way of course :)
i wonder what the golfs name is....
Its called Otto. Because of the otteger sticker on the rear screen.
You think I should call it frank?
Quote of the week:
We then gave it a good cook (not bad, its a golf) as the fan wasn't kicking in till I wiggled the wires Roll Eyes Oh yea love that reliability! temp gauge not riged yet but it or oil pressure light but it kinda hard to get to that stuff till it idles so i can fart around with what sensor does what.
Sort of sums up the whole project. You can stuff an engine by overheating it. I suppose the warranty has been exceeded. Has the poor engine even got oil in it
Quote from: BB on January 08, 2009, 08:11:45 AM
You think I should call it FRANK?
Yes Jeremy we all do ;D
Mint, the # 30 strikes again!!
Good to here its going.
Quote from: BOB on January 08, 2009, 08:21:55 AM
Quote of the week: ...
Sort of sums up the whole project. You can stuff an engine by overheating it. I suppose the warranty has been exceeded. Has the poor engine even got oil in it
I think Jem plays on the bumbling thing a bit - he was a somewhat cavalier with his post but was quite organised to be honest. The car idled for 5 mins max from cold (we were trying to get it up to temp at the time so we could run a test as per the factory workshop manual) and didn't get that hot in reality. It had just had a fresh oil change which he was careful to check prior to starting, ditto the coolant. He even had a spare set of plugs on hand just in case. Just no gas in the tank... ::)
We were waiting for the fan to come on which was when he checked the fan wiring and saw the bulge in the hose. With impecable timing Jeremy had just said "imagine if that burst" when a pinhole sized split appeared. As he said it was a comedy of errors and whilst you had to be there it was funny at the time. ;D
Quote from: typ53 on January 08, 2009, 08:46:13 PM
I think Jem plays on the bumbling thing a bit -
Yes thats why i always log in to see what Jeremy has done each day ;D
Quote from: BOB on January 08, 2009, 08:21:55 AM
Quote of the week:
We then gave it a good cook (not bad, its a golf) as the fan wasn't kicking in till I wiggled the wires Roll Eyes Oh yea love that reliability! temp gauge not riged yet but it or oil pressure light but it kinda hard to get to that stuff till it idles so i can fart around with what sensor does what.
Sort of sums up the whole project. You can stuff an engine by overheating it. I suppose the warranty has been exceeded. Has the poor engine even got oil in it
Yea na no oil, I run all my cars on no oil. Thanks for your help. would have thought the relay thing would have been a no brainer for you seeing as it was you who knew more than anyone I had a vr6 fuse box in there, plus the fact Craig had no trouble key coding my ecu after you had a go would have changed your tune a little. At no time have I expressed any bad feelings toward Platinum and what i got for the money other than that it was made more difficult as a swap because I got a mish mash of parts and suggest anyone else try and not get it like this. So if you don't have anything nice to say just don't say anything please :)
I work every day as a mechanic and I don't actually give a crap what people want to think about me.
Enjoying it salty ;D
Hi Noel ;)
I fluffed around ringing Qualitat and i can get a air intake temp sensor for $65 ex singapore :P
Anybody got a spare one they know is working?
Broken crank sensor, no coil, half a loom, and a dud ATS, And I'm the one getting given crap ::) Great eh!
Are you saying that your air sensor is faulty.?
Ha ha - I was just thinking about that comment I made and then when I got to 'enjoying it salty' I cracked up (and got a fright - like you could see me reading this). Nice work so far ;)
I reckon you fellas need to hop out of cyber land and go bash yourselves up in a school yard
Nah I would lose, I just answer the negativity with straight answers. I don't want to be pissing anybody off and I never have, it just happens it seems. They do it cause they know that in the school yard I would lose, its called bullying. It does them more harm than it does me, its just negative.
So yea I answer it, but I don't enjoy it at all.
I have been on vask for a lot longer that those who are like that tho and I have a large number of people I am just so glad I know.
Started it today to show somebody and it runs a bit off when cold and then pretty good when warm can rev it with no smoke and no rich smell, no idle tho yet but craig has given me some leads like the ISV and I do need to get a new air temp sensor. and don't completely know if the o2 sensor is doing its thing either.
The vag com just said the air temp sensor was a dud. I should scan it with my thing and see if it says anything on that now.
I am going to tuck and tidy stuff tomorow so i can take it for a fang ;D
Does that mean it's fixed?
Its going much much better, no clouds of rich smoke and it runs good it just still wont idle.
I have read a few post on VWvortex that craig has PMed me and it seems its quite a common thing and could be the ISV or the air temp sensor or something, i am going to clean the ISV today and fluff around a bit more and wire up the fuel pump properly.
An isv should be easy enought to get, alot of 5pots have them as do the 9a's, ive got one in the garage from a 5pot if you want to try it
Yea i got loads too.
Am watching that shark getting hacked up with a mate ;D i should be working on my car hahahahaha
what shark?
A great white
Damian came over with his mk3 ABF by stroke of perfect timing and i found I had my purge canister plug on my AFT sensor :P I had checked this before on his car and taged the wires in my car but I must have dun a boo boo. Im sort of happy about it as I got to check my hand held against the vagcom and it works perfect both said i had a earth to positive. Ive cleared it and will scan it again soon.
And fitted another ISV, idles absolutely perfectly now ;D They are not supposed to buzz they are supposed to go click and a slider inside that you can see goes back and opens the air hole. The one on the engine was toast.
I am so damn happy I think I will put some oil in it now I know its going good!.
I fitted the temp wire. works good.
And got the right oil sender this time for the light. Tho the oil temp gauge seems to just read full.
Will go out now and do the fuel pump telemetic system right now and strap in my fuse box sumwhere rough and ready.
But yea its running sweet, and the exhaust note is killer. :)
Awesome, go take down those hondas >:D
Great News Jem, well done. No sense in wasting good oil un-necessarily. I'll hold you to that track day run now. >:D
I'm really happy at how it runs. Its going sweet. And I have learned a lot.
Quote from: BB on January 10, 2009, 01:08:16 PM
Damian came over with his mk3 ABF by stroke of perfect timing and i found I had my purge canister plug on my AFT sensor :P I had checked this before on his car and taged the wires in my car but I must have dun a boo boo. Im sort of happy about it as I got to check my hand held against the vagcom and it works perfect both said i had a earth to positive. Ive cleared it and will scan it again soon.
And fitted another ISV, idles absolutely perfectly now ;D They are not supposed to buzz they are supposed to go click and a slider inside that you can see goes back and opens the air hole. The one on the engine was toast.
I am so damn happy I think I will put some oil in it now I know its going good!.
I fitted the temp wire. works good.
And got the right oil sender this time for the light. Tho the oil temp gauge seems to just read full.
Will go out now and do the fuel pump telemetic system right now and strap in my fuse box sumwhere rough and ready.
But yea its running sweet, and the exhaust note is killer. :)
Good news Jem, you must be a happy man :)
Yea thanks Nik its been a bit of a tough nut to crack but i now know more about it than i ever would have normally and i have got to test my hand held tool and yea its awsum im real glad. It goes good, starts and runs, love the exhaust its not loud but just shrieks when you rev it ;D Its got a showy tip too, almost a bit to showy but nah. So Ill chuck it back together, weld up just below the taillight and off for a wof. Good to know my fuel pum is safe now to as the car has had the pump just hardwired with no relay at all for the wholee time i have owned it. its not good really like that.
I think you should consider testing your handheld tool in private buddy
Oh Salty.........you are a one. :laugh:
Well its been a long journey Jem, i am very pleased you and mates cracked it.
congratulations
Thanks Noel.
Well done Jem - been following this one with interest and great to see such a positive result coming out of it. Looking forward to a full drive report. :)
cool jem... now whats the next mod? >:D
Good on ya Jeremy. I knew you would get there in the end....
Quote from: NasTnaS on January 11, 2009, 02:28:19 PM
cool jem... now whats the next mod? >:D
Cool Jem....now whats the next mod? >:D
jem come to the track day next month :p
Where are the pics ???
Doh No time for pics, working to hard after mucking around to much. Will try to stop staring at your avatar nutter and do them.
When is this track day Andy?
my next mod is to get some good tyres on my 13inch wideys and now i have the problem do I use the VW ones or my blue ones...... i think the blue ones are best.
If anyone needs some 7x13 I maybe can help them out.
Jem - logout and go work on my car please ;D
the track day is in the event folder its on the 10th of feb at taupo
Heres the engine with the air filter which i got free somewhere (off Pushbutton i think) that conveniently just jammed on the end on the mk3 air box cut down.
The stance she now has with new vogtland springs.
Where the 2nd fuse box is slung with some cable ties till i make up a bracket somehow or just never get round to it ;)
What does it go like? When I had a 9a in mine I could easily beat 1600/1800 dohc vtec hondas >:D
Well Ive only gone down my road and back....it was pretty wild actually I was pretty impressed. Goes well, much much better than before.
Exhaust
why are there 2 fuseboxes? i have not read the whole thread if it was explained earlier.
It was, read it all, its a great post :D Deals with absolutely everything that could go wrong, mechanically, personally, socially and cosmicly!
The highs, the lows, the songs, friendships made, friendships lost. Its a mills and boon!``
Me and my black golf ahhhhhhhhhhhhh I love her.
Oh yea the reason for two fuse boxes = laziness.
where did u get that exhaust I WANT
Quote from: BB on January 13, 2009, 07:51:35 PM
It was, read it all, its a great post :D Deals with absolutely everything that could go wrong, mechanically, personally, socially and cosmicly!
The highs, the lows, the songs, friendships made, friendships lost. Its a mills and boon!``
Me and my black golf ahhhhhhhhhhhhh I love her.
You should write a movie Jeremy, love it
Its a miltek.
Rex gaave it to me for looking after all the others and after it hadn't sold in a few years anyway.
Its the Abfs manifold and headers fixed to stainless miltek middle which has a small bullet sort of muffler and then it was a mk3 rear pipe and muffler that was supposed to be a mk1 ??? but the guy at Woolf did an awsum job of cutting up what was there and making it fit.
Its got no rattles which is great as I always had rattles with my dumb old extractors, and mk1s don't have much room. Of course it should have no rattles tho.
AND its perfect in thee sound department! Its very quiet untill you rape it then it howls.
Im very happy, it goes really well.
Thanks for the good work today on the VR6 Jem.
Just want to say that his Mk1 is a very rapid golf. We went for a blat down the motorway.. I was in charge of holding various parts of the dashboard in place - and Jem was in charge of flooring her and holding the steering wheel on (jokes)
Seriously quick little car that will no doubt give a few others a god run for their money on track days.
Thanks Salty.
I'm glad you made me show her too you and take the risk of a quick run >:D
The dash is still out and it was all a bit of a mess but boy does it GO!
I will have it back together and wofed by early next week.
It is much better than I expected it to be, it is seriously quick, it tries to rip the wheel out of your hands coming out of corners and then just goes mad and gobbles gear after gear till your going really very fast in a short time :P I think I am going to have to do something about the brakes now :( I will just get performance pads for now. Will drop some backings off to 0800racebrakes tomorrow as they are close.
I need to get spacers made too, chis if your reading what did you end up finding again re the spacers? ill ask up at Tyreworx tomorow as well, cause it needs to be perfect now, there no way the motor is the weak link anymore, it hauls.
and the exhaust is sublime. completely quiet unless you want it to make noise then an awsum rasp.
hey jem- are you talking spacers or locating rings? ive never had spacers made....but i had locating rings made..just sized up the measurements myself and took em to a machinist with a lathe- theyre not exactly perfect but do the trick. im not sure what the mk1 hub looks like anymore but take into consideration the slight bevel at the flat of the hub
I'm tickled pink for you Jem. Looking forward to seeing the final product go.
I think it is fair to say we are all really pleased that Jeremy has finally cracked a project, well done Jem
Especially since I told him it was wiring pages and pages ago ;D >:D
It wasn't wiring ::) Jeez its all you guys who don't do the reading or listening not me.
It was a mix of many things. The main things that took so long was getting the key coding done which took months and months of no progress. All because of the half loom I got with the engine.
Then I spent ages asking if anyone had a pressure gauge I could borrow to the point of frustration again, tho it was also my fault that I didn't find the one we had at work for ages.
I then with the help of the amazing Craig again sussed that I needed a 30 relay instead of the VR6 109 relay that I thought was the fuel pump relay. This is one of those things that should have been cracked by those more in the know than me ages ago but wasn't. The good thing is that I have learned EVERYTHING about how this car goes and what every relay is and where it sits which is a good thing and it cant happen without problem solving.
I had also mixed up my fuel tank purge plug and my intake air temp plug.
I'm just happy its going now and that the base engine seems to be a good one.
I could beat Dennis's anglebox with my old engine he is gona be no where even close now :D :D I think a few will get a shock, Nic ;D Hopefully your better driving will save you cause this thing has the speed now, it frightens me. ITS GREAT!
Oh Jeremy , dont put challenges like that to Dennis, or you may be called to prove it ;D
Quote from: BB on January 17, 2009, 10:03:23 AM
It wasn't wiring
All because of the half loom I got with the engine.
I needed a 30 relay instead of the VR6 109 relay that I thought was the fuel pump relay.
I had also mixed up my fuel tank purge plug and my intake air temp plug.
Of course it wasnt wiring
I though the engine was stuffed and that you had been sold a smokey pig. But on a good note. Great to see that you have finally got the sucker to run. You might find in future that instead of giving crap to the very people that can help you, you might get more help along the way.
i told you so there was something wrong with the air temp sensor... :laugh:
Quote from: BOB on January 17, 2009, 01:18:21 PM
I though the engine was stuffed and that you had been sold a smokey pig. But on a good note. Great to see that you have finally got the sucker to run. You might find in future that instead of giving s**t to the very people that can help you, you might get more help along the way.
I beg your pardon? I think you will find and many many people along the way who have supported me will say its the other way around.
And I have never said the engine was stuffed or a smokey pig? ???
And Noel it wasn't wiring, it was a relay that caused the major problem, that's not wiring. the air temp wrong is a plug on wrong not incorrect wiring.
The fact I got two separate looms caused a hold up but it wasn't incorrect wiring.
I would say it was wiring if the loom I installed had not worked, it did.
Do you guys do all this just to wind me up and turn Vask into reversal world?
Just imagine if you'd got all the right parts from the start, it would have come together months ago.
All that matters is that you got it going, now you can enjoy it.
Quote from: vert1 on January 17, 2009, 05:12:54 PM
Just imagine if you'd got all the right parts from the start, it would have come together months ago.
Definitely, that's the main reason I wanted a complete front cut rather than just an engine and a loom in a bag... would rather pull it apart so I understand what goes where etc.
Very pleased to see this all worked out in the end Jem :)
Yes its good it did work out, I always knew it would, just when :P
I just cant understand why some people say the things they say tho ???
i have all the dash back in now and the rust welded up that i need for a wof. Everything is getting done, new alarm siren in today and washer bottle found a new position. The dash all works except the tacho which I think Craig knows how to do.
Took the dorr off and boged a few holes at the bottom and did a can job for paint. I am going to get the painters Spinner got for his Audi to do it when its running good.
I priced getting Mintex pads bonded onto some backings and it gona be about $220 or $250 :P Is that what I should do, do you mk1 guys think?
I think I need to get the shocks (bilstien) valved to the new springs and maybe a new shock height ring gap cut into the rear ones so the car isn't sitting so nose forward.
And Nigel can you drop those rings off? Oh yea and wicked car Nige wicked car very fast.
recall that mintex bonded pads were the ones that delaminated and nearly killed dad in the mk1 jem- id buy complete pads if i was you....
We stock Mintex pads.
Quote from: BB on January 17, 2009, 02:20:46 PM
Do you guys do all this just to wind me up and turn Vask into reversal world?
Yes. I thought that was pretty obvious ;)
Thanks chis, so what did your dad end up getting after he has returned or used up the pads the vasker gave him? I know your dads pads stuffed up but surely that wouldn't happen to all of them? I told the guy that had happened.
And Dennis...... you sure you didn't think it was my wiring? That's the crap i have had to put up with from others along with lazy and blah blah no oil in engine ::) Which is just so rich after once again I say, they failed to key code it and blamed my wiring when it was their lack of knowledge. And then telling me I was giving crap to the people who helped me ??? BOB you were no help at all you just gave crap and got upset cause I said you listen to your lap dog to much. You should have been the first to realise a VR6 relay wasn't going to power up a ABF engine. This whole thing is completely Platinums fault for selling me a half loom that is where the problem lay so I really don't appreciate the comments you make and if you dont think i will say so then sorry cause i do. i completely left all that stuff out untill you step in with your crap comments.
I got plenty of excellent help along the way from Craig and portmanatu who left because of another rude member who also couldn't key code the car and blamed my wiring as well ::) plus said they would sell me a vagcom cable but just wasted my time.
To be honest I really cant believe how badly some people have behaved over that last year and i wish they would just stay out of my post so i dont feel the need to write all this utter crap to try and make some sence out of it all. I would hate for some of the comments to be thought the truth when they are so far from it.
Most people would be extremely pissed off at what I have had to deal with and the off skew comments posted up here. And you know what, I am.
But as i have said so many times I look on the bright side I know who to trust and where to get parts from and not, and I try to post up the things that will help any others to not make the same mistakes. I am also glad I know my car so well now as well.
The good thing is that many people have shown how great they are, and for that I am eternally grateful.
And Noel and Dennis you are both always allowed to give me crap ;D ;)
Thanks Craig, vert, chis, rambo, nasty, Noel, Dennis, karl, salty, flix and any others I have forgotten, you guys are what makes Vask great.
I have read some complete crap on this thread. Complete half truths. Go smoke another joint
Quote from: BB on January 18, 2009, 10:24:53 AM
Thanks chis, so what did your dad end up getting after he has returned or used up the pads the vasker gave him? I know your dads pads stuffed up but surely that wouldn't happen to all of them? I told the guy that had happened.
And Dennis...... you sure you didn't think it was my wiring? That's the crap i have had to put up with from others along with lazy and blah blah no oil in engine ::) Which is just so rich after once again I say, they failed to key code it and blamed my wiring when it was their lack of knowledge. And then telling me I was giving s**t to the people who helped me ??? BOB you were no help at all you just gave s**t and got upset cause I said you listen to your lap dog to much. You should have been the first to realise a VR6 relay wasn't going to power up a ABF engine. This whole thing is completely Platinums fault for selling me a half loom that is where the problem lay so I really don't appreciate the comments you make and if you dont think i will say so then sorry cause i do. i completely left all that stuff out untill you step in with your crap comments.
I got plenty of excellent help along the way from Craig and portmanatu who left because of another rude member who also couldn't key code the car and blamed my wiring as well ::) plus said they would sell me a vagcom cable but just wasted my time.
To be honest I really cant believe how badly some people have behaved over that last year and i wish they would just stay out of my post so i dont feel the need to write all this utter s**t to try and make some sence out of it all. I would hate for some of the comments to be thought the truth when they are so far from it.
Most people would be extremely pissed off at what I have had to deal with and the off skew comments posted up here. And you know what, I am.
But as i have said so many times I look on the bright side I know who to trust and where to get parts from and not, and I try to post up the things that will help any others to not make the same mistakes. I am also glad I know my car so well now as well.
The good thing is that many people have shown how great they are, and for that I am eternally grateful.
And Noel and Dennis,Bob you are always allowed to give me s**t ;D ;)
Thanks Craig, Bob,vert, chis, rambo, nasty, Noel, Dennis, karl, salty, flix and any others I have forgotten, you guys are what makes Vask great.
I have included others whom you forgot,Jem
Yea thanks I will.
Your welcome to explain how it goes in your world...... there tons listening.
Just remember that until you started up I had not said one negative word about anyone and have never BLAMED anyone, just pointed out what and why things became so difficult.
And only after you called me lazy, you know there was already difficult circumstance's.
I am a mechanic who works for their living too you know and I get a name from this site as anyone does and if you guys wanted to rag on my build then I was always going to set the record straight.
Your also welcome too.
Or just say nothing and unless I'm asked I wont either.
oh the SAGA!
yea im sure that wouldnt commonly happen to pads- i think the issue was the bonding... would u care to take the risk though? he was really pleased with the EBC pads and so now hes going to stick with them
You're all as bad as each other..
Baiting the hook on each post
Yeah you are right, but Jem loves it ;D
Quote from: qta4 on January 19, 2009, 09:14:17 AM
Yeah you are right, but Jem loves it ;D
yep he does....thats one of the great things about BB he knows how to enjoy and spot some good natured banter and he can give as good as he gets....like a terrier down a badger hole!! ;D
just a bit of the "banter" of late has been laced with the bad taste of some rather less than "good natured" crap that he had to put up with from one vask member and then a few others associated with said winner over the last few months.... he has every right to take the bollox that those involved in that issue crap out personally and react the way he has....in fact he has been extremely restrained throughout all that crap from what i have seen.. 8)
Whew, lucky we have posts like this over summer while Shortland Street is off air otherwise I wouldn't get my dose of poorly acted drama....
Yea.
3 things
1. I actually HATE it Noel, I really do when its like this, this isn't my idea of a debate.
2. I haven't done any baiting Salty, you cut and paste when I have been baiting rather than setting the record straight. I don't want to seem like a moron and get given crap when its actually not my fault, by the people who's fault it most certainly to some degree is!
But I don't care! I've even said I'm happy with what I got for my money still!
3. Chis your right its a SAGA. I don't care to continue it any more, so the only posts will be relevant to the car now, you can go back to shorters dubstar.
Oh yea and thanks Hans! Forgot you.
Noel, Bob got paid, but I do thank him for the help he gave, just not the negative comments they got my back up. You would all be well aware that it would never ever be my intention to piss BOB off and I think anyone of you would have been pissed off like me in the circumstances. But I'm no big man grudge holder, if anyone wants to just forget it I'm more than happy too it was just a little hard to have a sense of humour when my car was so crap for so long :P Its the kinda guy I am.
Apples are ready, :)
Wicked ;D Im heading out that way for some pads from Dubshack soon so i will take you for a blast in old mighty.
Tacho:
=http://www.clubgti.com/FORUM/showthread.php?t=165066 (http://=http://www.clubgti.com/FORUM/showthread.php?t=165066)
Jeremy you grumpy old man you, I think it's time you sat down and learned how to use google... ::) :P
Quote from: BB on January 19, 2009, 10:32:33 AM
2. I haven't done any baiting Salty, you cut and paste when I have been baiting rather than setting the record straight. I don't want to seem like a moron and get given crap
Uhh - I actually posted this up to help you out. I wasn't talking about you baiting bud. I ain't been cutting and pasting nudding.
Quote from: saltyboarder on January 19, 2009, 02:37:59 PM
Uhh - I actually posted this up to help you out. I wasn't talking about you baiting bud. I ain't been cutting and pasting nudding.
Thanks then :) I don't mean to be sounding all grumpy and all :)
yea Type53 I could do with a bit of help on the best of search engines but then its so much easier to get you to do it for me :)
Got my wof and the wheel alignment done today.
Vask is so boring lately, this post is the first one i check everytime i log on.
Whilst i am pleased that Jem has got car running, i will miss the posts that come with such a conversion,
Good luck Jem, look forward to seeing car at the track
Yes it has been boring which is a shame.
I got the wheel alignment done and wow, its great now just great. i just cant find enough reasons to go take it for a drive!
It is really really grunty. I love it.
Thanks Craig I will try to do the tacho today. as well as go out to dubshack for some mintex pads and pop past pushys for the most awsum apples.
Ok Vask has some bad times but it has the good ones too, lets not loose faith in vask and keep up the positive and the car build projects.
Did you get the tacho going?
Clutch is hopeless.
I want to go to the later 02a box who's got one? I think i would be wasting money trying upgrade the origional type.
I will dig out a spare I have tho and take it into auto clutch or maybe trade parts and see what they say.
Not sure if i should do the 13inch 7 wides or not but i think i will.
I wonder how much the exhaust adds to the standard ABF and pod filter. Its a proper miltec exhaust for a mk3 gti engine.
Could it be 160?
Did a oil and filter change on an immaculate 2003 V6 4motion bora, leather seats, manual box etc. Guy got it for $7000 from turners :P What a car! He recons the dealers are selling them for $18 at one and 16 at another.
5/40 synthetic oil and a filter from Giltrap (asked at Partmaster and they had em for $2 less) and got to reset the service light with my fancy little tool. It said it had a temp sensor intermittent fault, i reset it and ran the car and it didn't come back straight away so ....
Great little tool for anyone with a VAG, much easier to use than vagcom and laptop totally portable and fits in the glove box almost.
I reset an airbag light tonight as well, and told the girl to charge her battery over night as it only came back on when her car was sluggish to start, battery seemed a good one. It was the old driver seat bag connection.
Quote from: BB on January 21, 2009, 08:04:41 PM
Did a oil and filter change on an immaculate 2003 V6 4motion bora, leather seats, manual box etc. Guy got it for $7000 from turners :P What a car! He recons the dealers are selling them for $18 at one and 16 at another.
Would it happen to be black or dark? Remember looking at one when i was bidding on a polo gti
Not yet but it revs very high ;D
I did get the gear linkage sorted. Just bent it more, its sweet.
Need to get a new header tank hose.
Clutch is a bit depressing starts slipping in first and is history by 2nd if you don't just go gentle. It is just woeful at containing the beast.
Quote from: BB on January 21, 2009, 08:04:41 PM
Clutch is hopeless.
I want to go to the later 02a box who's got one? I think i would be wasting money trying upgrade the origional type.
I will dig out a spare I have tho and take it into auto clutch or maybe trade parts and see what they say.
Not sure if i should do the 13inch 7 wides or not but i think i will.
Clutch and gerabox are completely different stories Jeremy.
I would get a good clutch , 16v clutches are good,even your original ABF clutch will be more than enough for your car.
Gearbox,nothing wrong with the original 020 box.
The 02A box is a huge job in the Mk1 , so dont do it.
It requires drive shaft changes as well as mount changes,too hard at tis early stage Jeremy.
That mk4 golf blue.
Ok I will do the clutch.
i know they are different but the 02a has a standard type of clutch and i have the origional ABF flywheel and clutch and its way bigger and gruntier than an 020 type back to front system even with the 16v pressure plate. You cant use the 16v clutch plate as the inner splines are different. but i guess your right i will get a plate made up and a 16v pressure plate ;)
i would go for the new clutch before worrying about your box, i thought you would have freshened it up when the ABF went in
get a sachs & your done
I will see if my engine guys will lighten a flywheel for me cheap.
Or do any company's want to offer me a good deal on a clutch flywheel combo?
And get a 16v pressure plate, apparently they are stronger than the 8v one
brendon bought a really good combo from platinum. the sachs kit with lightened flywheel, i reckon thats the only reason his golf kept up with my jetta.... :)
Yes i was just getting that sach idea.
Ill have to send one of you guys in for me ::)
nah come on mate... lifes too short to be wasting time on little things...
Jeremy , i am disappointed that you didn't look at your clutch assy prior to assembling this project.
There is nothing wrong with the 16v clutch assy, you will need to get the biggest clutch that can be fitted, i think thats 210mm,good grippy cover and a good disc.
I went to a 02A clutch,228 mm vr6 clutch cover, then went to the super duper system that i currently have, but I'm also driving a bit more power thru than you
It was a good clutch! Pretty much brand new it may even be a 16v pressure plate now as its the one you gave me Noel.
Its still a good clutch as I haven't destroyed it, but if you give it what she's got, it slips.
As you well know Noel they upgraded the box and clutch system when they made the mk3gti for a reason ;)
But your right i will stick with the old stuff till it breaks
Well then Jeremy, that clutch was brand new when i built that engine, im also sure it gas not been wet with oil either.
?????????????????? dont know ???
The clutch will handle the power. Somethings not right - main crank seal leaking? Only 15hp difference between the two motors, not enough for catastrophic failure as you describe.
Its not catableedinstropic failure Dennis :) It just cant hold the beast back at full brandys. As I say if you read it its fine but if you red line it in 1st then get second hard with full boot, you know like you do at a track day it slips. if i went and tried to beat the likes of GTI I would end up not being able to drive home or be pissed of I had to keep lifting when I had the slight edge.
Like I say they upgraded for a reason the ABF clutch is much bigger and stronger.
Having a 020 flywheel on it is like having a lightened one anyway. The ABF one is a huge lump.
I agree Jem, they upgraded for a reason and I don't believe it was the ABF, but the VR6. The GTI got the box by default, along with the rest of the line-up ?
Ok Dennis.
I think if I sort out the old back to fronter it will be ok tho. I will get a sach kit if i can.
Sach kit is too much i will get some stuff from trade parts and they will reface my flywheel free.
just need to dig out the other flywheel I have.
Yeah, that was my worry. Could something be out that would cause the clutch to slip? If it's got plenty of meat and pressure plate is in good nick, can it be refaced along with the flywheel?
Quote from: BB on January 21, 2009, 08:20:20 PM
I will see if my engine guys will lighten a flywheel for me cheap.
Or do any company's want to offer me a good deal on a clutch flywheel combo?
I can get your flywheel done for $40. Had a mate of Brendons do the one in the Mk2
???
The clutch is good except the engine is beastly. The flywheel was refaced, all my clutches get a reface.
I used to use auto clutch and pay $50 I now use trade parts who reface for free when you buy a kit.
I think if i get a brand new sach quality plate in there with a brand new 16v pressure and it all refaced lovely like then it will be ok. it wont last forever if i give it heaps of crap but thats the life of giveing them utter crap.
I could drive to Dunedin and back on what's in it now I just cant give it full power. If I lift of for a split second it grabs and then pulls hard again it just cant hook up the full race shift if you know what I mean.....do you?
I think its a special magic engine with extra magic horsepower in it that nobody else has, cause I'm so cool and big down there.
Quote from: BB on January 22, 2009, 08:07:58 AM
I think its a special magic engine with extra magic horsepower in it that nobody else has, cause I'm so cool and big down there.
Now we're getting somehwere a magic engine. That explains everything. ;D
Thought that would help some of you ;)
Rev counter goes, too easy, the whole dash goes now.
Got my Pads and will fit them when it cools down a bit.
Fitted the mintex pads I got off Dubshack, there good tho havent realy tryed them out.
i need a flywheel off a DX engine or something with the bigger flywheel. i didnt think there were different flywheel sizes but aparantly there are? There is a 180 a 190 a 200 and a 210mm plate available and i want to fit the 210mm plate and Flywheel. Im not sure what ive got in the car now as really i didnt think there were different flywheels but i was hopeing to get all the bits here before I pulled the car apart. So anyone got a flywheel that takes the 210mm? The guy said a DX engine was the one to get it from.
I also get a fault code for my air temp probe as well. Who has a 2nd hand one i can try in my car or sell me?
I put the small plastic bumpers back on for now too, i am waiting to sell my lancer that i did up and i will spend the cash on a good paint job.
Wondering if I should delete the sunroof? It works but is problematic.
Ive got a flywheel and pressure plate from a mk2 gti, its 210mm
Cool how can I get em? I really just need the flywheel as I will buy the other stuff new.
Choppy16v dropped off a 210mm flywheel tonight and took the mk1 for a blast he followed me and I drove his 16v.
My car is way faster but his car is a really sweet ride and made the most fantastic noises as we did a quick lap of my private race track.
A good mk1 or 2 golf is a real nice car to drive.
I will drop off the flywheel tomorrow.
Still got stereo to fit, the volt gauge to be wired in, sunroof sorted out, alarm remote battery, Instrument light switch repaired or replaced, horn ring problem fixed, complete repaint.
When the clutch is done its ready to track tho.
Its so fast, I want to get this guy in CHCH to fruit up the ECU at some point too.
i had the pleasure of driving this beast tonight,WOW ITS MOTOR BIKE FAST. the acceleration is brutal!! ;D
will it be trackside on tuesday? Puke
reckon itll beat brendon's 20vt?
Unless he goes crazy with his boost it will id say, tho I don't have track tyres and its hard to keep up with a lunatic like GTI when he starts pedalling.
The Ganaways will be dust in their old 8v plonkers >:D ;)
I'm so happy with it, and if the guy in CHCH is true in what he says about the ABF there more to come. I could get cams as well but too expensive.
It was great fun having that blast with choppy, we drove hard as but real safe and only booting it at sensible places. One muppet in a corrolla saw us and speed up and started weaving through all the cars ??? we just laughed and let him go.
Coming back onto the motorway round that Rosebank rd onramp sweeper is so much fun at full tit with the sound coming off the walls.
Puke on tues....this tues? I doubt it but could try.
I think you will find jeremy, the Mk1 golf you have appears sooooo fast, mostly because in the past you have driven such heaps of crap , It may not be as quick as you think ;D
You need to go back to the hospital and steal another bottle of nitrous.
not saying you cant drive, but Nicks car is not fast because of the engine....
Quote from: NasTnaS on February 05, 2009, 05:08:09 PM
not saying you cant drive, but Nicks car is not fast because of the engine....
Ha ha I know ;) I just like to make a splash.
Noel :) I work on heaps of cars and drive all sorts, its not as fast as yours but she's fast alright.
BOB, I'm over that crap, I'm 41 now buddy. But why? Do you want to have some of the fun you seem to have missed out on? :)
I took the flywheel into auto clutch today and they acted all offended when I said that Trade Parts refaces the flywheels free if you buy a clutch kit ::) Oh well guess who i will be getting the vast majority of my clutches off. They pick em up and drop then back off with a cute girl as well! What more could a mechanic want :P
BUT Trade parts didn't seem to make up clutches with special friction stuff. so i have to pay AC $380 for a flywheel reface $45 a anew 8v plate that they will put a special surface on $280 :-X And a 2 pin pressure plate. I was going on about 8v and 16v PP's but they grumpily said it was about the pins 1 or 2. They said they had the "strong" one. $the rest, and the cost of the plate in the first place.
I hope it all works out good. Should do. Its like magic how fast it is, its insane in third gear what it does. I think maybe it is real magic. Maybe platinum sold me a magic engine!
Did you try the revolution on it?
no silly, feed the nitrous to the engine !!!
Quote from: BB on February 05, 2009, 08:34:44 AM
The Ganaways will be dust in their old 8v plonkers >:D ;)
Its nice to be set as a benchmark Jem.
Aha yes BOB now your talkin ;)
And yes Nik is seems you and your bro are held in quite high regard for your driving. I would say to be honest my car is faster than yours now as really it is scorching. Way better than I could have hoped for, im so happy with it and the 150-60 HP is has dosen't tell the whole story as they have very good 2l torque and the instant responce of having the EFI and also i weighed the origional ABF flywheel and clutch and its 15kgs and the one it uses for the older box is 10kgs so that my friends is a well lightened flywheel and the engine responce is fantastic.
As they say if you cant drive just build a faster car....eh Noel :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: >:D
Quote from: BB on February 07, 2009, 10:14:21 AM
As they say if you cant drive just build a faster car....eh Noel :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: >:D
LOL :D
That right Jeremy, i can't drive anything like i did in the 80's. That is why i built a fast car , to make up for lack of talent. ;D
Ah well Noel as long as your on top we will all be happy to follow ;)
So you still think a vtec is a good idea :P
Quote from: BB on February 08, 2009, 06:13:11 PM
Ah well Noel as long as your on top we will all be happy to follow ;)
Dont worry Jeremy, if your car is as fast as you say, you should have no trouble doing really well at the track, i have a lot of trouble keeping up with Matt at Taupo, so if your car is faster than Matts , you should do very well. ;D
Quote from: vag_nutter on February 08, 2009, 06:15:33 PM
So you still think a vtec is a good idea :P
Nah man I don't. I think that ABF donk is the witches britches!
Quote from: qta4 on February 08, 2009, 06:20:52 PM
Dont worry Jeremy, if your car is as fast as you say, you should have no trouble doing really well at the track, I have a lot of trouble keeping up with Matt at Taupo, so if your car is faster than Matts , you should do very well. ;D
Really ??? hmmm Are those Ganaways magic or something? I'm a great looser ;) I don't get all surly.
We have only seen Nik at the track once, he went really well, but Matt has possibly had a little more experience, i would, if i was you affraid, very affraid ;D
Were they both faster than GTI in his 16v poo? when you shouted me that day with greg?
Nik was not there, but Matt was certainly faster than Brendon
Quote from: qta4 on February 08, 2009, 06:29:44 PM
We have only seen Nik at the track once, he went really well, but Matt has possibly had a little more experience, i would, if i was you affraid, very affraid ;D
I have more experience on that track than Matt, I just havent got my coilovers set up as well as my last suspension set up and my tyres are old worn and toast.
Ill get it sorted once Ive sorted the RS2 sorted and get back into it.
Oh and Jem, bring it! ;)
:D
Quote from: BB on February 08, 2009, 06:31:59 PM
Were they both faster than GTI in his 16v poo? when you shouted me that day with greg?
I was 8v then!
i am the fastest! hahahaha this is a rad thread! i have secret 16v weapon in the works! might be a big field at next track day. yee ha!
That K-jet is old school :D Chisolm had all this work done flowing his big valve head (3a) after it came back from America with big valves but was'nt all smoothed and flowed, and all he got was 2hp cause the k-jet was out of puff just like in poor Dubstars car running lean.
They SAY it can flow to 300hp but it cant.
I have several big Audi units here you K-jet youngsters can fit to your golfs if you like >:D I recon that the thing to do.
Best one to use is one from a 9a ;)
Why not an audi 200? big.
9a is easier to adjust, think its 5mah to the pressure reg on it for a 16v
Quote from: BB on February 09, 2009, 09:36:14 PM
That K-jet is old school :D Chisolm had all this work done flowing his big valve head (3a) after it came back from America with big valves but was'nt all smoothed and flowed, and all he got was 2hp cause the k-jet was out of puff just like in poor Dubstars car running lean.
They SAY it can flow to 300hp but it cant.
I have several big Audi units here you K-jet youngsters can fit to your golfs if you like >:D I recon that the thing to do.
I would suggest he maybe be using the wrong fuel distributor.
Try using one from the days when nobody worried about MPG and green house they pump a lot more gas higher into the rev range
You can also modify the metering pin to do the same thing on the later units a bit agricultural but a suitable outcome can be had
We have 165hp off a std 1.6 GTI metering unit which I would be surprised if Paul was getting this much with a hydraulic head
Quote from: choppy16v on February 09, 2009, 08:47:35 PM
i am the fastest! hahahaha this is a rad thread! i have secret 16v weapon in the works! might be a big field at next track day. yee ha!
Look out for Choppy!
If he drives like he skates were all in Big Sh*T
So how do you know if its a new or a old metering head?
I have my new Carbon Kevlar clutch now, I've just got to fit the thing.
Always loads to do.
Wow Jeremy, your car must be putting out a lot of power to need a carbon Kelvar clutch
Quote from: BB on February 05, 2009, 10:01:31 PM
I took the flywheel into auto clutch today and they acted all offended when I said that Trade Parts refaces the flywheels free if you buy a clutch kit ::) Oh well guess who i will be getting the vast majority of my clutches off. They pick em up and drop then back off with a cute girl as well! What more could a mechanic want :P
BUT Trade parts didn't seem to make up clutches with special friction stuff. so i have to pay AC $380 for a flywheel reface $45 a anew 8v plate that they will put a special surface on $280 :-X And a 2 pin pressure plate. I was going on about 8v and 16v PP's but they grumpily said it was about the pins 1 or 2. They said they had the "strong" one. $the rest, and the cost of the plate in the first place.
I hope it all works out good. Should do. Its like magic how fast it is, its insane in third gear what it does. I think maybe it is real magic. Maybe platinum sold me a magic engine!
Does this mean, that clutch cost you more than the motor ??
Its a tower of power Noel.....Magic I tell you.....
No the engine and loom and ECU cost a grand and the clutch was $388.
Its a great engine for the money, I was always happy there and still am!
Carbon/kevlar clutch is in.
I did it the way all VW boxes should be done, I had a jack under the engine sump and used my block and tackle on the gearbox.
its just so easy that way as when you undo the box and have to twist it around to unhook the drive flange its just hanging there no effort involved. Same when you lift it backup and pop it on. Did the whole job in about 3 -4 hours at a easy pace. Didn't have to do any oil seals or brass bushes or the rear release bearing tho so that made it quicker too.
Clutch works good straight away but no clutch dropping till its bedded in for a 100 odd kms.
What did the MK1 fuse box say to the MK3 fuse box?
OI! I woz ere first my man, If you short out and fry my ECU I'm going to burn the fuel pump, blow all the bulbs and short you out too :laugh: :-\
Just joking... Glad to hear it's going good. Finally!
The 8 yr itch is about to be scratched!
You can put an ABF in the Fordson now. >:D
No the mk1 fuse box says you look better without those dumb bullet fuses I have, why is our owner so lazy he dosen't make us one?
Cause he is! says the mk3, look he's only got me hanging here with a couple of zip ties.
Don't worry says the mk3 motor I'm lovin it!
My car is fast.
what tyres should i get for track days? do you think i should spend all my money on tryes for those vw mags? i think they are cool.
get some track rubber... what about the blue wheels? save the vw ones for the road geezer
Blue wheels and vw wheels are same size rubber but different ofsets. i like the blues but maybe will sell them to afford tyres on the VW ones. Maybe not tho I'm not sure.
What size track tyres do you other mk 1 guys go with?
Quote from: BB on February 19, 2009, 08:53:16 AM
Blue wheels and vw wheels are same size rubber but different ofsets. i like the blues but maybe will sell them to afford tyres on the VW ones. Maybe not tho I'm not sure.
What size track tyres do you other mk 1 guys go with?
On my factory 13's I run 185/60/13's, as does Matt.
How much do they cost each? what are they called and can i just get my local tyre shop to order them? will they fit some standard steel rims?
Quote from: BB on February 19, 2009, 08:42:46 PM
How much do they cost each? what are they called and can i just get my local tyre shop to order them? will they fit some standard steel rims?
I get mates rates for my tyres so dont know what they cost the public. Tyres have gone up in price across the board. Just ask for DOT rated tyres. I dont have a clue who you should deal with in Auckland.
Thanks nic i know what to do ;) they are dunlops eh dot rated. ive got some 13 inch wheels,
Toyo R888 seem good, there are plenty of choices though.
Try http://www.rowestyres.co.nz/index.htm
Or from memory I think Hyper Tyres were actually a pretty good price, but I struggle to go into a place like that!
Toyo 888r's are around 275 each.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Wheels-tyres/Tyres/auction-203314696.htm (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Wheels-tyres/Tyres/auction-203314696.htm)
Ask for pics of these
Quote from: Bullseye on February 20, 2009, 06:59:31 AM
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Wheels-tyres/Tyres/auction-203314696.htm (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Wheels-tyres/Tyres/auction-203314696.htm)
Ask for pics of these
I run these tyres on my Mk1 GTI, 185/60/13's though. They are good tyres, they have been superseeded by the A048's now.
And they are in CHCH.
Ouch $275 each :(
Quote from: BB on February 20, 2009, 11:41:29 AM
And they are in CHCH.
Ouch $275 each :(
You can get the R888 195/50/15 for $249 here: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Wheels-tyres/Tyres/auction-203505954.htm
What about these?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Wheels-tyres/Tyres/auction-203473863.htm
Those tyres are such a bargain
Quote from: Golfboy666GTI on February 20, 2009, 10:06:03 AM
I run these tyres on my Mk1 GTI, 185/60/13's though. They are good tyres, they have been superseeded by the A048's now.
A048s have in turn been superseded by the A050
Quote from: vag_nutter on February 20, 2009, 09:30:49 PM
What about these?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Wheels-tyres/Tyres/auction-203473863.htm
They would be good on some standard steel wheels eh.
Who thinks i should get these?
Quote from: BB on February 21, 2009, 08:30:10 AM
They would be good on some standard steel wheels eh.
Who thinks i should get these?
Im not to sure about 175's?
175s if you're beach racing maybe.
Why? to skinny? But The wide 7 inch blue mags i have say they are 175/ 50/ 13s ???
Im confused. The tyres are really wide for 175s. Much wider than a standard golf 13 wheel with a 175.
Dont take any notice of any comments Jeremy, 175 are fine for your rims, i would have thought 185 on std rims a tad wide ;D
Race tyres are quite flat not like street tyres which have quite rounded shoulders
Those would be mint!! Good price too... go for it
Quote from: vag_nutter on February 21, 2009, 09:26:33 PM
Race tyres are quite flat not like street tyres which have quite rounded shoulders
Yes i put a mesuring tape acroos them and sure enough 175 across the tread.
im gona bid on those bastards so dont anybody else eh :-* :-*
the formula ford AVON tyres are cheep. wonder the sidewall measurement?
Size: 7.0x22x13
Brand: Avon
Model: Formula Ford
Quantity: 6 only
Tread: Good
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Wheels-tyres/Tyres/auction-203473858.htm
and a 4x100 set of these please!
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Wheels-tyres/Alloy-wheels/auction-203633214.htm
Off a Ford I would have thought they were 108pcd
meaning i'd like some in 4x100.
Quote from: GTI's on February 22, 2009, 02:40:17 PM
the formula ford AVON tyres are cheep. wonder the sidewall measurement?
Size: 7.0x22x13
Brand: Avon
Model: Formula Ford
Quantity: 6 only
Tread: Good
AFAIK you work it out like 22" tall tyre, less 13' wheel, leaves 9" in the sidewalls. So each sidewall is 9/2 = 4.5" or 114ish mm. Pretty tall sidewall :o
I got dem tyres ;) For 5 hundy. I'm so glad it didn't get bid any higher.
i think they are going to be perfect, I don't like em to low or wide.
they say soft on them is that good?
Will try to get em fitted today.
Quote from: BB on February 25, 2009, 09:07:10 AM
I got dem tyres ;) For 5 hundy. I'm so glad it didn't get bid any higher.
i think they are going to be perfect, I don't like em to low or wide.
they say soft on them is that good?
Will try to get em fitted today.
Soft is good for grip but will wear quicker than M or H.
Oh well grip is what I want.
How maany of our Taupo track days do you think they would last Nic?
My tyres fitted my mags sweet. Tyreworx in Surry cres Grey Lynn fitted them and sponsor me, with free fitting and balancing cause I've been going there so long and i rate them and plug them.
They are really good a alignments too, David the owner got the red golf straight by knowing to unbolt the subframe and wiggle it etc.
Its straight as now but makes a funny grrrr noise and slight shudder when turning left only ??? I think it must have a damaged wheel bearing as it seems to have run up a curb or something. Its not power steering cause it don't have that.
Is there anything in the gearbox that could shudder on a left turn, is it the rear mount? I will check the rear mount cause there is a bit off roughness though the car. This is the red mk2 I'm blathering on about if anybody cares...............
Johnp sent me a article on the AmDs Chipping of the ABF. I want that now.
Check the alignment of engine and gearbox, with respect to the mounts, should be in the middle of gearbox mount and engine side mount, has an effect with drve shafts, with plunge on turns
just dont spin on the first slow lap of the day agen jem :p looking forward to seeing the abf beasty :P
Thanks Noels thats a good idea. Its a mk2 remember tho.
I have just done this on a mk1 I'm working on tho and will get under and make sure the drive shafts have free play. There was an issue with them before on this particular mk1 after a to long shaft was fitted :P
Mk2, i thought you fitted the ABF to your black Mk1?
Sorry jeremy, i just read your last post and its Davids car FGS, maybe you should have started a new topic
Jem, track tyres can make a lot of noise, sometimes they sound like a wheel bearing is toast, it isnt, its just the tyres.
Read the post Noel ;D I was plugging tyreworx who fixed my RED mk2 golf but fitted the tyres for my black MK1.
I got a red mk2 digi golf the other day Noel ;)
They are just so damn good when you get them running good. Maybe ill chuck a ABF in this thing too ;D it already has the CE2 loom I think.
Can you chip my ABF Noel? :)
Quote from: Golfboy666GTI on February 25, 2009, 08:49:56 PM
Jem, track tyres can make a lot of noise, sometimes they sound like a wheel bearing is toast, it isnt, its just the tyres.
Not the mk1 the red mk2 ....oh dear i should have never mentioned that red MK2 in this BLACK MK1 thread.
thanks tho nick.
i will put up some photos of the tyres and the mags and the cars and it will be fun.
Is this an official tyreworkz thread now Jeremy
Tyreworx.
Quote from: BB on February 25, 2009, 09:00:03 PM
Tyreworx.
I used to get my tyres there when I was in the grey lynn massive. . . .hes a nice old guy
he has a cardboard cut out of himself outside the shop now I see
That's Ray :) Yea he's a good ol boy but he's sold the biz to David who's worked there for years and is his nephew.
I make a joke about that card board cut out saying that he's saying "my plants are this high"
From the old Snake Studio Tee shirt of Hitler doing the same thing ;D :D :D
I got my tyres and mags fitted and they are wicked! they have the correct centers and no shakes at all. They be rollin.
I love my mk1 now just absolutely love it, the second gear pull is just insane.
I have some new rubber bushes to go onto the steering rack mounts, i got two sets one for Paul Chisolms golf and one for mine.
I fitted his and it was easy as. Much better too.
they were the last sets in stock but im sure qualitat could get more in for other mk 1 racers ;)
I am quite concerned about how low my sump is. Also the fact its a alloy sump.
Can a steel sump be fitted to the ABF? As then a sump gaurd of alloy plate would work. cause if i used the sump gaurd with a alloy sump and took a good knock it would still smash the sump to peices.
Ive got to make up my mk2 version of the lower brace noel gave me as in the first i tried to keep its funny ends for some stupid rerason :P
Pics
pics
Looks like it on stilts eh with the 13s :( but the front bottom arms are seriously the wrong way already and the sump is almost hitting the ground!!
I am going to get a steel sump guard from a hilux like this one pictured it fits real good. Should be able to get one almost free from a wrecker.
If you do what i did Jeremy you end up with lower strut brace and sump guard at the same time
The carbon/kevlar clutch seems to be much better, and evidently they last really well.
doing some rust that was in the sun roof before I get it painted. i removed the whole sunroof and found why it was broken. some parts were but choppy has come to the rescue and dropped off the parts i need from a mk2.
i am having the sun roof dipped and rust killed at the dip strippers right now as well.
i am really happy at how good my cars sunroof is for rust i used jenalite rust killer that i then washed off with a wet rag then ijust got some RIPO (rust inhibiting protective oil) an altex product and wiped on a very thin layer with a bit of cotton wool to hold it till it goes to the painter. i also got a welding rod and put a small alligator clip on the end and used this dipped in the very thin oily ripo and got it all the way into the back of the sun roof where you cant reach.
Some don't like the sun roofs but on a hot summer evening they are so nice, and if they work perfect and don't leak why not.
Yep that very soon ;) I really like the front grills the hilux sump has. ill show a pic with it in place later.
more rust i found under my rear spoiler which i had to remove till after the paint.
I love ripo the way you can leave it all metal looking but it wont rust, and after all these years of using it the cotton wool is a perfect way to apply it.
my understanding is that the sump is made of that material becuase it dissipates heat really well... if you change this, you might get heating problems....
i dont mind the ride height . it looks athletic and ready for anything!
Hey aren,t you going to a track. You only need a sump guard on safari,s . You have got stiffer springs and new shocks, The sump won,t hit the track and you shouldn,t speed over judder bars
If I leave the track on the real bumpy bits i think i could get sumped. If I HAD to go sideways down a curb I could get away with it just if i had a good sump guard. I wont have a heat prob Nige ;)
Ill take a shot of my sump and the guard I want to use.
Dont start making excuses for a thrashing next track day Jem, fit a sump guard asap , we all want to see your magic car in action ;D
Yep well I may even be able to get that particular sump guard as the Hilux I was working on just ran its big end bearing while i was warming it up and bleeding up the cooling system in my driveway ??? :P it had oil in it even tho it was utter grinding paste. I was warming it up to give it an oil change as well. Oil light was out but she just suddenly went clatter clatter clatter.
Needless to say he wasn't to happy when I told him :-\ I had just done thee cambelt as well so i had to strip all that down again to make sure I had that bang on being a diesel an all and yep it was all good.
Guess its gona be a little hard to get the 5 hours labour he owes out of him eh :'( :'(
Oh well i feel for him his new (OLD) $2500 hilux is toast.
bummer man!
Surely the sump on the ABF isn,t any lower than a steel 8 valve sump ? An ABF still holds 4L oil and a later 8 valve sump the same
I,ll measure one tomorrow for you. Actually Noel runs a Alloy sump on his 1.8T and his car looks lower than yours BB. Are you sure your sump is going to be a problem with normal track and street driving
I think Jeremy is starting to make excuses , my sump is low, but sufficient clearance for any track day, as long as your springs have a hard on. ;D
The sump does sit lower with the ABF. And its alloy which will smash if it get whacked tin will dent. Especially when i fit a sump gaurd which will make it all even lower but it will be up against the sump so if it get a big smash the steel sump will still be able to deform slightly rather than crack like an alloy one. if i ever get to targer or hill climb dutys its very easy to drop a wheel and sump a golf mk1.
A guard and a steel sump are mandatory really.
What Ive got would just get smashed to bits possibly even on rumble strips.
Excuses for what? sump guard and cross bracing will be on by next week. lots of time before the 5/6/09. I would take it to puke now!
Got my tires on so its ready.
When is there a puke?
Bring it! Its an animal!
My sump is as low as yours, not really a problem, driving carefully over those rumble strips etc, also the diaphragm i fitted reduces any contact to sump.
Quote from: BB on March 05, 2009, 08:31:02 PM
Excuses for what? sump guard and cross bracing will be on by next week. lots of time before the 5/6/09. I would take it to puke now!
Got my tires on so its ready.
When is there a puke?
Bring it! Its an animal!
Good boy Jeremy, you know i am winding you up ;D ;D ;D
GOT QUOTED $660 to fit a half cage into the golf today by a fellow called Monster engineering. He seemed a good ol boy said it was manz aproved and it would cost an extra $60 when finished to send away the papers with photos etc. Think I will do this. Its worth that even as a road car.
want those ball joint extenders too, how much are they Noel?
Could you make some up that would work but not be so bling?
No Jeremy i could never build those balljoint extenders, they are cnc milled then heat treated to save your life, of all suspension components that matter, these are among the most important :o :police:
Just scroll down to Lowerball joint extenders here Jeremy
http://www.pmwltd.com/products.php
And here
http://www.pmwltd.com/index.php
And also scroll down to the rabbit sspension, double wishbone assy
http://www.pmwltd.com/photos.php
;D
Im gona shove some bits of pipe packers in between the ball joint and the A arm and shove some hardened axle bolts through it all.
Im the only thing saving my life. :)
I edited the above post, check it out
Nice. I feel this is a very important correction that must be made, if not corrected all your fancy steering parts lose their effect.
1/2 cage = no passengers [at the track] and no rear passengers ever, plus LVV cert and authority card FWIW
Quote from: BB on March 05, 2009, 08:50:45 PM
Im gona shove some bits of pipe packers in between the ball joint and the A arm and shove some hardened axle bolts through it all.
Im the only thing saving my life. :)
BUHWAHAHAHAHA, you're crack up- what would we do without ya Jem ;D
Measured an ABF sump On the short side it is 100mm deep and the long side it is 140mm deep. Measured a steel 4L sump and it is 135mm deep, so there is not much in it. I haven,t seen many Mk1,s running a sump guard. Are you intending to do some runners from pc plod.
Yep that's me. Im going to offer my services as a "driver" soon as its all sump protected.
Pauls mk1 has a sump guard, looks like its taken a few scrapes over the targa, dipping the wheel off the road to enter a corner at a better angle etc....I intend to be able to use it and if anybody did think they could drive sideways off a curb like most cars can do they would get a nasty surprise.
Just measured my oil pan, 138mm deep, its a Schrick motorsport sump 5 litres
Thanks for the Mk1 seat material, will be used to repair Maddies drives seat hole. Genuine faded cloth to!!
Took the Black Mk1 machine for a quick spin, and its got real go, like the way a well tuned Strada Abarth does, so fair warning to those that under estimate this car, you may get a good look at the back of it, but not for long. Especially like the way the gear stick is fitted close to the driver, drops to the hand very nicely.
Quote from: BB on March 06, 2009, 12:59:45 PM
Yep that's me. Im going to offer my services as a "driver" soon as its all sump protected.
Pauls mk1 has a sump guard, looks like its taken a few scrapes over the targa, dipping the wheel off the road to enter a corner at a better angle etc....I intend to be able to use it and if anybody did think they could drive sideways off a curb like most cars can do they would get a nasty surprise.
None of our Mk1's have sump guards, Dad never used one in the Targa Events hes done either.
Quote from: qta4 on March 06, 2009, 12:59:52 PM
Just measured my oil pan, 138mm deep, its a Schrick motorsport sump 5 litres
bling
;)
ours frequently takes a beating in targa- i shudder to think the damage had we not had one.
Thanks Chis :)
its ok you guys I can put a sump guard on, it'll be ok.
Quote from: Golfboy666GTI on March 06, 2009, 03:50:04 PM
None of our Mk1's have sump guards, Dad never used one in the Targa Events hes done either.
What about that time you hit your sump plug in your VR6 ;D My mk1 sump is pretty damn low and prone.
I am sure that if you have bump stops fitted that the sump will not hit. Doesn,t the right hand axle hit the chassis on a mk1 golf when they are really low or the bump stops are knackered
Oh dear ??? how does this happen?
What are the motives?
Why do you all care?
Vask always does this!
Have you not heard of rocks? Curbs? Dipping a wheel into a tight corner on dirt or b roads? Visiting my mate at Karekare who's driveway is really dug in and the middle hump part is way higher than normal?
Many many Euro cars do smash their stupidly prone sumps, jap cars don't cause they ALWAYS fit a cross support that not only allows for easy jacking but saves your expensive engine if you do miss judge a corner and end up mounting a curb.
Its got nothing to do with bump stops ???
I used to think my steel sump was bad enough but now a have a thin alloy one that's about 30 odd mm lower.
if you drovee sideways down aa curb which amazingly you do have to do sometimes or wait for eternity. much better to gently drop down onto a sump guard if its to close that straight onto a VW alloy sump!
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi133.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq44%2Fbstingroco%2Fmk1GTIblackJems001-1.jpg&hash=f0f1c752677f2a0a864cd3b505cb7392fc41e357)
Flash ;D
Its a weapon Noel ;D
I get my sun roof back from the dip strippers on monday.
I have been tidying up the wiring and getting ready to install the stereo.
Its gona kick ass.
Is that a bit of hay ? ;D
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi133.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq44%2Fbstingroco%2Fmk1GTIblackJems002.jpg&hash=7ef26262908f248f1f13c5e8c28e41222d7df082)
That's the winners podium :D
ABF = Absolute Bloody Final.....makes me think of my drinking days.
glad they were on another continent? :-\ :laugh:
Its AB Fab
Quote from: BB on March 07, 2009, 06:52:30 PM
Its a weapon Noel ;D
I get my sun roof back from the dip strippers on monday.
I have been tidying up the wiring and getting ready to install the stereo.
Its gona kick ass.
really , fitting a stereo, thought the sound of that magic enfine would have been all the music you need Jeremy
should clean it!
IS that a BB special drinks holder for all those ponsonby road lattes hanging off the door Jem
NB that kill switch wont work in its current location
;)You got it Jeremy ;D
And its no good to clean it it looks crap either way.
Goes good tho.
Quote from: vwrally on March 08, 2009, 12:36:48 AM
IS that a BB special drinks holder for all those ponsonby road lattes hanging off the door Jem
NB that kill switch wont work in its current location
:D
Not sure about the kill switch. I bought it at some show, do I need it? They are quite a good thing if you have the battery in the back and have to run wiring past the driver anyway but to route wiring to the switch seems a bit much. And it no use unless the driver can reach it easy.
Just fit the sump guard Jem, the 130tc at targa used it's sumpguard plenty of times.
And if you never need it, so what...great insurance :)
Thanks ritmo i will be fitting it.
I got my sunroof back from the dip strippers, its a damn good idea to get bit like this properly cleaned up like this, it looks mint.
will add a pic soon now i just have to bog it and prime and paint it then fit it.
Everything is going well with the old girl, i did some good stereo installation as well so will put some pics up of that as well.
I have a brand new 4L steel sump if you want to swap
If it will fit straight onto my ABF engine i will, much prefer to beat out and weld up a dent than deal with a shattered piece of alloy!
is it a straight swap?
I have some bits from that box of stuff you guys might want too.
Come and get it.
I have some new bits to fit to my car.
Nice new bushes from Dubshack for the A-arms and rear beam etc in red nolathene and some standard rubber ones for the steering rack from Qualitat. I am trying to get some red ones for that too but these ones will be good if not available. They were also the last set Qualitat had. Im sure they could order some more if other MK1 guys want to do this.
Dubshack is trying to get the red ones tho so you can get the whole lot from them. They have the other sets on the shelf just not the rack bushes.
I will be glad fit the new upper coolant hose outlet so my dearest will stop freaking out about the drips of coolant the cats might drink. :-X
John said you could do this with the intake on but I don't know how he did as I couldn't for the life of me get a tool onto the top allen bolt.
No worries tho as it was real easy to remove the intakes and then everything is as easy to work on as a 8v! :)
I also need a new 2nd Knock sensor if anybody has one of these I can buy? 2nd hand would be fine. I also need a working air intake temp sensor? Anybody? Do these crap out? The scanner says its a open circuit or something. Yar.
I am also seeing if my special engineer can whip me up some of those ball joint extenders for less than the 266US that they cost.
If not its a steel spacer with three high tensile bolts. to be honest i dont actually see why this would not work and be strong enough if done well. i have seen mk1s that have gone over curbs and the A-arm bends way before any HT bolts would snap and even if they did well you've crashed haven't you! Stuff breaks when you crash.
M12 bolts are quite strong.... go for it... >:D
Yes I wont even need m12, 3 m8s would be fine. Well see what the engineer says.
Quote from: BB on March 15, 2009, 09:52:40 AM
I am also seeing if my special engineer can whip me up some of those ball joint extenders for less than the 266US that they cost.
If not its a steel spacer with three high tensile bolts. to be honest i dont actually see why this would not work and be strong enough if done well. i have seen mk1s that have gone over curbs and the A-arm bends way before any HT bolts would snap and even if they did well you've crashed haven't you! Stuff breaks when you crash.
How long are the extenders??
They should be a realtively easy thing to make with a lathe a mill and a bit of round bar. I would imagine that you would want to get them heat treated as well, shouldnt cost to much.
Might be worth asking your engineer about the options. I would be keen on a set(or two) of it was economical to do so.
Heat Treatments in Auckland would be able to the treatments as well, these ghuys are usually pretty user friendly as well, and motorsport orientated to from memory
You can spend as much as you like on suspension but if your arms are the wrong angle its wasted.
what size are those rubbers for your arb??
I,m looking now and wondering if they are for the arb or the end of the A-arm? meaning there is no arb bushes as it does say golf a arm bushes not arb bushes and not all golfs have arbs only gtis do. :P
I will see when i fit em.
Quote from: vwrally on March 15, 2009, 11:19:05 AM
How long are the extenders??
They should be a realtively easy thing to make with a lathe a mill and a bit of round bar. I would imagine that you would want to get them heat treated as well, shouldnt cost to much.
Might be worth asking your engineer about the options. I would be keen on a set(or two) of it was economical to do so.
Heat Treatments in Auckland would be able to the treatments as well, these ghuys are usually pretty user friendly as well, and motorsport orientated to from memory
I was just thinking about Heat Treatments too! They run a drag GTR I think...
Quote from: BB on March 15, 2009, 08:42:30 PM
I,m looking now and wondering if they are for the arb or the end of the A-arm? meaning there is no arb bushes as it does say golf a arm bushes not arb bushes and not all golfs have arbs only gtis do. :P
I will see when i fit em.
try steering rack
were talking the red sets not the two black ones they most def are steering rack ones.
im thinking i need another set of red ones called ARB ones not just a arm ones.
Vert?
Quote from: BB on March 16, 2009, 04:10:18 PM
were talking the red sets not the two black ones they most def are steering rack ones.
im thinking i need another set of red ones called ARB ones not just a arm ones.
Vert?
ok then left hand side red ones are rear axle, tight hand side are A Arms, I couldnt find A arm bushes from Prothane last year when I tried to find them, I did get the engine mount set but wouldnt get to upset about them, the factory diesel set up is better
Pressing those rear buashes in will be great fun.
Yep I know which ones are which, just don't think there is any ARB bushes to complete the job :(
I think the nolethene ones are not such a tight fit as rubber ones Noel or have you fitted some to yours that were a bitch?
Yes Jeremy, i had to use a press to fit them into the rear beam, just picture holding the rear beam whilst pressing them in ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Think you could use a plate of steel or something and a big g clamp on each side?
I have a automotive screw press tho, its great. I don't like hydraulic ones that much. I prefer screw with auto and bike stuff.
Just joking Jeremy, i pulled them through with a bolt and spacers, was really easy ;D, just use lots of lubricant
Lubricant Noel? You are leaving yourself wide open here >:D
Quote from: vert1 on March 16, 2009, 09:58:51 PM
Lubricant Noel? You are leaving yourself wide open here >:D
mmm make it waterbased lube there Jem, vaseline breaks down rubber ;D
And no i couldn't write that and not laugh.
Mature :D
Vert i dont think there are any ARB bushes there can we get some?
Surely if he was leaving himself wide..... ummm sorry...no need....and all that....
Handy tip about the water based lube. Surely a silicone or teflon lube as used on cycles would do.
lube is supplied thanks.
put a bit of hair around it
:D
Moving along.
Who thinks I should fit the mk1 diesel box to my ABF?
And does a mk2 gearbox fit a mk1 if you just take off that bracket bit? or is it missing the rear mount bits? I cant remember :P
Mk2 gearbox goes straight into a MK1 but not the other way around. Leave the mk1 GTi gearbox in there as it will have close ratio gears where the diesel box will have a lower crown wheel ratio but not close ratio gears. The perfect box would be the diesel box with the close ratio gear set put into it. I think the magic motor will deal to a used 020 gearbox soon enough
Quote from: 16valve on March 27, 2009, 04:54:40 PM
Mk2 gearbox goes straight into a MK1 but not the other way around. Leave the mk1 GTi gearbox in there as it will have close ratio gears where the diesel box will have a lower crown wheel ratio but not close ratio gears. The perfect box would be the diesel box with the close ratio gear set put into it. I think the magic motor will deal to a used 020 gearbox soon enough
And i thought you wanted a higher ratio for your Mk2, so you used all the rev range .
For the road i wouod agree, but not a race car.
You could always just fit a diesel final drive into a close ratio box, easy as.
My final drive is 3,65/1, vr6 final drive is 3.36.1. For the road i could do with the VR6 final dive, but not for the track.
I have a non gti Economy overdrive box in there at the moment. Its good, im sure the majic motor can pull max rev in 5th too. I think i have the best one i can get unless i find a good 16v box or something.
I have to be really careful in first gear as it just wants to tear the gearbox to bits with wheel hopping and shuddering.
I would not change gearbox Jeremy, at the end of the day 5th gear is higher ratio, thats all, just drive it like you stole it.
The first 4 gears are what matters at Taupo,and at 7k revs, who gives a stuff if 5th gear is .91, or .80. Because thats the only difference.
Besides just make sure everything is good....
BB Dads car has a 4 speed "VWMS" gearbox
Essntially all it is is the first 4 gears of a 5 speed box i.e doesnt have the tall th gear as per a normal 5 speed
IMO you would be better with a 5 speed and only usng the first 4 essentially a VWMS ratio set
I only change when I hit the red line, doubt that I would get 5th even at puke.
Just thought I would put the idea of gearboxes out there and see what others thought.
I cant stand the original mk1 1.6 close ratio box its just hopelessly low, I understand why they made it like that but its only good if you have a gutless 1.6. Is the mk1 1.8 gti CR box different that the 1.6 one?
Quote from: BB on March 29, 2009, 11:06:43 AM
I only change when I hit the red line, doubt that I would get 5th even at puke.
Just thought I would put the idea of gearboxes out there and see what others thought.
I cant stand the original mk1 1.6 close ratio box its just hopelessly low, I understand why they made it like that but its only good if you have a gutless 1.6. Is the mk1 1.8 gti CR box different that the 1.6 one?
The Mk1 GTI 1.6 box rocks Jem, great for on the track as well.
Id say its good for the track, I hate it on the road tho, and now I've got 160 odd horses its just to low.
Quote from: BB on March 29, 2009, 11:21:33 AM
Id say its good for the track, I hate it on the road tho, and now I've got 160 odd horses its just to low.
Isnt the engine standard? So shouldnt that be 150BHP?
The 1600 GTI box does around 3000rpm at 100km/h, nothing wrong with that is there?
I have a miltek and a pod filter, from what I read replacing the mk3 exhaust frees up 10 to 15 hp easy as it was such a big suitcase muffler. Plus a pod so I say 160hp. :)
I guess so about the 1.6 box but I just always think I need another gear, and with the box I have now I don't ;) And its still pulling hard at 180kph in 4th >:D That's as fast as I have gone.
Just stick an auto into it and then you don,t have to worry about when you have to change at all. I have that knock sensor you are after. Brown or the black plug one . they are different
I do right around 3000rpm in 5 at 100kph with the Mk3 GTI box.
Have a look at this, you can enter your wheel size, final drive ratio, gear ratio and the revs you are going to pull and it calculates your speed, It has a list of all the vw gboxes with their ratios
http://www.scirocco.org/gears/
I have a FF gearbox for anyone who wants to drive at 100klms at idle. ;D For sale too
trying for Vmax in the Mk1 eh? :P
Quote from: qta4 on March 29, 2009, 08:18:08 PM
I have a FF gearbox for anyone who wants to drive at 100klms at idle. ;D For sale too
I'll swap it for return of your original Mk1 wheel? ;D
Quote from: AngleBox on March 30, 2009, 04:37:18 PM
I'll swap it for return of your original Mk1 wheel? ;D
Ah Na, just send the wheel back ;D
I got some original gti 13 wheels now with good street rubber. from that convertable. should i keep them or sell them? Anybody want them?
What do you want for the wheels BB?
What size are the tires?
$300 for the set, 175/70/13. All tyres with 80 to 90% tread.
Took BB's ABF for a bit of a go down the motorway yesterday, cheers for that mate, and I've been inspired to do something similar to my mk1. Much faster than expected!!!
I actually heard him open it up on the rosebank on ramp from my house in pt chev ;D
How fast is your car Jem, i might be scared ;D
It seems pretty fast, like totally a different thing than before.
I will find it difficult to get the best out of it thats for sure and I may well for the first time start thinking I need brake improvements.
I haven't found either puke or Taupo to be hard on brakes Theres really only 1 big stop and at a track day I don't care about that second I may get by taking a lot more risk.
I'd think about brakes if i ever do a targa ....and i wont :-[ well maybe 8)
At Taupo we will have several cars so close i performance,closer than before, we will have Jem, Brendon, Alan Nik, and me , this will be really cool, sorry if i forgot anyone else.
BB The 4 Speed box and the 5 speed CR box have the same top gear ratio
The gear set in the CR 5 speed is also calssified as VWMS
I do think you will notice the difference when you hit the track but as your car is a road driver as well go with aht you are comfortable with
Main thing is have fun ;D
Jem, would you be interested in some 205/60 R13 Yokohama A032R track tyres? They are currently on my Gold MK1 which now sits in the shed and goes nowhere. I've driven them to Taupo once and Wellington once. Apart from that I think they have done about 4 track laps so are in good condition. I'd use them myself but they catch on the guard on my Blue MK1 due to a sloppy repair from when the car was crashed back in the 80s.
Quote from: nordschleife on March 31, 2009, 09:33:40 PM
Jem, would you be interested in some 205/60 R13 Yokohama A032R track tyres? They are currently on my Gold MK1 which now sits in the shed and goes nowhere. I've driven them to Taupo once and Wellington once. Apart from that I think they have done about 4 track laps so are in good condition. I'd use them myself but they catch on the guard on my Blue MK1 due to a sloppy repair from when the car was crashed back in the 80s.
These are very good tyres BB we used them on Targa , much to Dunlops displeasure, you would appreciate the difference over any 'normal' road tyre and are very progressive in the adhesion. Meaning that they dont let go suddenly insteed you will gracefully enter into a lurid spin like a ballet dancer.
But seriously they are very forgiving
I have just bought a set of race tyres! 175 13s. They seem pretty damn good too. How much do you want for yours Matt?
And I have a 5 speed E overdrive box in at the mo and its very suited to the extra pull I now have. Well in 5th anyway im not sure how different any of the other gears are but I will be in 3rd and 4th only I would say now, no longer will I need to try and hook a difficult 2nd around that long left hander with my stump pulling 2l NA power!
Matt does pretty well around Taupo with only one gear ;) 3rd seems to be all he needs.
So with much more power than Matt, Jeremy, you should be able to drive around Taupo really well.
Just hope not too well. ;D
Im more than happy to let either or both matt and Nic have a go in it and see what they think. I doubt I will have the guts to go to much faster than I went last time, well see how it feels with the tyres etc.
Who's got a old race suit I can buy?
Quote from: BB on April 02, 2009, 08:44:29 PM
Im more than happy to let either or both matt and Nic have a go in it and see what they think. I doubt I will have the guts to go to much faster than I went last time, well see how it feels with the tyres etc.
Who's got a old race suit I can buy?
I need a race suit too
Do you Basil!
Quote from: BB on April 02, 2009, 09:02:18 PM
Do you Basil!
???
Thats FAULTY Jeremy
Good likeness,dont you think ;D
Quote from: qta4 on April 02, 2009, 08:54:53 PM
I need a race suit too
Quote from: BB on April 02, 2009, 08:44:29 PM
Who's got a old race suit I can buy?
How tall are you guys
I have an old single layer suit somewhere RPM I think (pretty sure its still there) not woth much either
Quote from: vwrally on April 02, 2009, 09:32:36 PM
How tall are you guys
I have an old single layer suit somewhere RPM I think (pretty sure its still there) not woth much either
You grab that one Jeremy
Quote from: qta4 on April 02, 2009, 08:54:53 PM
I need a race suit too
Do you have to dress up in a suit for track days ?. I,ll make sure I bring my birthday suit for a couple of hot laps.
Quote from: 16valve on April 03, 2009, 08:12:37 PM
Do you have to dress up in a suit for track days ?. I,ll make sure I bring my birthday suit for a couple of hot laps.
No , not at all, just the overalls look like i have to work on my car all the time >:D
Hopefully next track day i wont drop lots of oil, or break a cv or overheat;D
Better not or you'll get the compulsory 2nd fuse box disqualification!
PENALTY! :D
Quote from: GTI's on April 03, 2009, 08:22:04 PM
Better not or you'll get the compulsory 2nd fuse box disqualification!
PENALTY! :D
Watch us burn all his av gas from the side lines
I dont think so, i intend having a great day, Brendons car has me a little worried at this time, his car will fly, im not at all worried about your car Alan >:D
You will have to watch the rear bumper under braking
You wont get that close, unless i have just passed you ;D On the straight of course
Mind you , there is always Jeremy, Dark horse at track day.
Jeremy might be a surprise ;D
banterbantertbanter
Fitted a new knock sensor thanks Al, will do a scan again soon.
And refitted the sunroof except I need a few clips or a new interior panel. I also need a new flip up piece as the ends have got smashed off >:( Not by me as usual.
Also have extended the intake hose to get the air filter out front and fit the window washer back in its correct place.
Its going real good i feel like i should just go out driving it all the time but then i don't cause it goes like a rabid dog and i think i will lose my licence or even worse crash it.
I cant wait for a track day.
wish i could do more stuff on it as well but i have to fix endless other cars to earn money...mitzi v6 GDIs :P
Do you want to post some pics of this monster Jem?
There's loads of pics.
Its not really a monster but its a grunter :D I think I will find it exciting to drive at taupo.
Drove out too Piha today and it went like a dream. It has a really solid controllable feeling about it. I was totally going sensibly as I know you never know what will be around the next corner on those roads it was just so nice to feel the pull it had in third and even forth. Second is just ballistic and was only pushed in that gear once or twice ;D
I was surprised at how fast the cars in front were going and was happy to just cruise and keep up with this lunatic who was squealing his tyres through corners in his mitzi space wagon thing ::)
I absolutely love driving my ABF golf. the race tyres are great as well and haven't seemed to wear badly. The amount I drive it I will leave them on. Or put the convertibles wheels on for a while. I like the grip tho.
Really cant wait for the track day. Is next weekend a puke one?
would have been keen to follow you out i need more kms in the track car.
very keen for puke next weekend
Is it a track day next weekend? i dont know :P ill try find the link to there.
Hey Jem,
Thanks for the catch up earlier today and having a mad spin in this very car.
Your MK1 Gti with the ABF transplant is a great combo and was a blast of fun to drive, looootsa old school character for sure! ;)
Yeah, I reckon you should call it the 'dark horse' track car.
BB was red lining it through the gears as we were joining the motorway with great grip to boot and when we got back to base the 16v intake manifold was amazingly cool to the touch ;D :D MK1's must definitely have a lot more air running through and around the front.
With the right engine and the right suspension mods the MK1 GTI always wins my heart over, every time! :P Damn I love the Golf's.
Must be all that cold air going into the manifold that keeps it cool ;)
I had to put 96 in it as i forgot to fill up at Mobil, can tell the difference! not pinking but just a bit more wheezy. I will try to get some race gas off Noel for track day and/or put a bottle of octane boost in as well.
Really cant wait for track day now.
I am going to fit the wheels off the wreck as my road wheels and start to save the race tyres.
FARK! >:D
Stopped in to see Jem this morning, and have a dig through his bins for some hoses for my CGT...
He took the vRS for a lap around the block, then let me go for a squirt in the Mk.1 ABF - Seriously F'in rapid car :police:
Feels a lot like a Sud to drive, but with bucketloads of torque. Loves to rev and makes quite a nice burble - this will a be a car to watch at the track day!
Thanks again for the hoses mate, reckon I'm down to the last leak in the system now... the brake servo diaphragm ::)
Nice too meet a couple of other cool vaskers :) Glad to help with the hoses and was also great to have a drive of a vRS!
Really nice car indeed, I to be honest couldn't really tell it was a diesel! I would own one in a flash.
What is main role in your motor parts of tentioner?
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Quote from: franklin1990 on April 23, 2009, 03:24:45 PM
What is main role in your motor parts of tentioner?
Is this like some kind of petrolhead knock knock joke?
Quote from: dubstar on April 23, 2009, 04:59:32 PM
Is this like some kind of petrolhead knock knock joke?
Knock, knock
who's there?
You need to retard your timing a bit. :P
Quote from: dubstar on April 23, 2009, 05:10:04 PM
who's there?
Come on Noel the
Tension is killing me ;D
huh
I think the next thing that should be done to my car is doing up a gearbox.
I think i will go 4 speed.
Any opinions on if this is a smart way to go or not? I have heard they are stronger, easier to work on etc
Plus I have several :) had a 4 speed before and it seemed better than the 5 speeds.
I personally wouldnt bother with a gearbox change Jeremy, if your gearbox is in good condition,then why bother.
Your ABF should be very strong, and a 5 speed box should match your torque well.
I am looking forward to seeing how strong the ABF in a Mk1 will be.
It should rock
It does rock. ;D
I wont fit this box before track day. Just a learning experience. ;) My box is ok but 2nd is difficult to get a race speeds.
I have a few other tricks (well known) before track day tho.
Its getting closer.
Had a good drive in Otto on sunday round a few back roads out Puke way and it is just awsum.
Im such a sad dick that to be honest in the 6 months or so since ive had it going I haven't actually really gone for a decent drive in it.
Well I really could not be more happy with it, ABF in a mk1 with the EFI is a serious bit of kit.
It drives so well on the throttle, the response is amazing both on and off. Through the twistys you hit the pedal and it just gobbles road insanely fast! The top end rush in 3rd is just eye watering and has you really stomping the brakes at the next corner.
I have never had a car I have had to use brakes so much, they worked fine tho, I am perfectly happy with what I have which is all new standard with Mintex pads from Dubshack ($60 to vaskers) the pads are much much better than $20 specials from Partmaster. You would hope so :) I will bleed the system with high temp fluid before Taupo.
I also found the grip my bridgestone dot rated tyres had was amazing as well and as Vwrally says they let go gently not with a big whoa and not grab again. Every time I thought oh oh this corners is a bit tighter than I thought they just took me round.
But yea its the throttle response that really impresses me, you want power to pull you round the corner its there even in 4th gear it just tugs you where you want to go, get off the throttle and it immediately slows you with all that compression fighting against the shut butterfly, its just so good and controllable.
I know I prattle on about K-jet but the thing I did always dislike about it was the complete lack of throttle response :P You put your foot down the engine goes oh ok I have a little more vacuum in my intake i will lift up that flap some and then it lifts and a bit more gas goes in and the thing starts to gain speed..........Totally different now.
I do think it is largely to do with the fact that the flywheel weight drop when fitting the older 020 boxes on them is so huge. i seriously say to Ballin that if he wants to go all Mk3 parts on his mk2 that he should try to get his flywheel as light as he can as the standard one is a massive lump and throttle response is a huge benifit on a track car.
I am also really happy with the over drive gearbox I have, if I had a close ratio I would have never gone below 4th even in the tight bits and on the motorway it would be a nightmare. As it is it cruises so smooth and steady at 120kms at 3000rpm in 5th. Hit the gas and it moves fast still chop to 4th and people look at you like how the hell did that car take off like that your going over 180 before you can blink almost :P
I just think wow, if my car is this good I simply cannot imagine what a 400hp porker or something is like ??? I mean my golf is still a tiddlier but I love it, I really love it.
Going to go to puke on next day is it this fri or next as I want to get some time in this beast as I have a Ganaway or two I am always setting my sights on ;D
Glad to hear :D You excited about it ;D
I was beginning to wonder which Jeremy was writing that experience.......
Quote from: BB on May 12, 2009, 08:38:37 AM
Going to go to puke on next day is it this fri or next as I want to get some time in this beast as I have a Ganaway or two I am always setting my sights on ;D
Controlled testing on Friday, it is the day before the 6 Hour Endurance Race so there will be lots of race cars. If that is the case there will most likely be 2 car sessions to allow them some safe practice. I should be there if its not too wet as I only have green tyres.
It just a matter of fact,that it be suppose to be oldered the wires up and will just remove the relay that buzzes and hope when the oxygen sensor is fitted and therefore earthed this will stop buzzing.
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Quote from: littleangel on June 04, 2009, 04:30:27 PM
It just a matter of fact,that it be suppose to be oldered the wires up and will just remove the relay that buzzes and hope when the oxygen sensor is fitted and therefore earthed this will stop buzzing.
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What?
My ABF runs lovely thanks.
Reason relay was buzzing was it was a VR6 ecu 109 relay not a ABF ecu 30 relay. All sorted now.
Well there are some odd ones ???
My golf seems to have blown a seal in the master cylynder as I only seem to have front brakes :o hence the locking up I've suffered lately.
I will get it all off the ground and go over the brakes with a fine tooth comb and check the rear bias valve etc as well.
I also have a 22mm master wrapped up in gladwrap that should be fine, if not ill buy a new one, I got it off a car at pickapart tho as it looked like it had just been fitted.
Other than that nothing much to do be for track day, except a few tricks I have.
Come on Jem. You don,t want the rear brakes to work too good. You might lock one of them up and flat spot a tyre. Amazing just how much better the car stops when the back brakes work. Imagine how much better the car would slow down at 180kmh if you had discs on the rear
Quote from: 16valve on June 05, 2009, 07:21:26 AM
Come on Jem. You don,t want the rear brakes to work too good. You might lock one of them up and flat spot a tyre. Amazing just how much better the car stops when the back brakes work. Imagine how much better the car would slow down at 180kmh if you had discs on the rear
My drums will be fine thanks, common knowledge that discs lock up.
You'll note I didn't make any comment as to why I had a 109 relay and not the correct 30. Cause were being nice to each other.
I will be as happy with my brakes when I fix my blown MC as I was last time. No lock ups, stops fine.
Too all who have rear discs good on you, why shoot the messenger tho when its common knowledge they lock. I was just sharing that knowledge. Then defending the hail storm I got for it. All good fun.
Removed all shocks today and swapped the rear bilstiens for the ones I had rebuilt ages ago but that didn't capture my old springs. They do with my new springs tho, i will get them checked and I may have to get one rebuilt as it kinda blew out when the springs weren't captured :P huckary eh :-\ Strange tho that I did have some bilstiens that did capture those old springs. Not sure what to do with those ones now, Il post em up.
Also removed old complete brake booster assembly right across the firewall with one from a citi golf. The booster is bigger and they have the newer type of mk2 master cylynder. its just the 20mm one but that will do unless its no good.
I need a mk2 type plastic bottle for the MC tho if anyone has one?
I am removing all my calipers and slaves and blowing all the old fluid out and making sure its all tip top. Then bleed it all through with Penrite SIN brake fluid.
I have decided also to use another set of lower A arms and retain the rubber end and measure my ride height to see if it actually does make any difference. Its only the front bushes that wear so bad on the mk1s anyway. So I will fit the nolathane to that only.
Also I removed my front ARB.
Last job is to get some ball joint extenders made up.
Quote from: BB on June 11, 2009, 06:00:58 PM
Removed all shocks today and swapped the rear bilstiens for the ones I had rebuilt ages ago but that didn't capture my old springs. They do with my new springs tho, i will get them checked and I may have to get one rebuilt as it kinda blew out when the springs weren't captured :P huckary eh :-\ Strange tho that I did have some bilstiens that did capture those old springs. Not sure what to do with those ones now, Il post em up.
Also I removed my front ARB.
Last job is to get some ball joint extenders made up.
We are getting serious ,Jem >:D
Shocks all back in and am very happy bout that i think the rear end will be much more under control now.
I also popped the pistons out of my front callipers with compressed air and I was glad I did, no amount of bleeding would have cleaned up the old sludge in them. I washed them all up in hot soapy water then blow dry with air gun and reassemble with rubber grease. Too easy and now my new fluid will be clean and uncontaminated.
I am fitting some new rear shoes and all will be good.
I also found my Bias valve was not adjusted correctly.
For anyone interested you have the spring taught, pulling the lever down when the car is sitting on it wheels. When the cars weight is lifted off the rear wheels the spring goes slack and the valve closes..
So if you removed the bias valve and help it in your hand it would be closed, no fluid will pass through. Push the lever towards the unit and it will open allowing fluid to pass through it. Its pretty much is the opposite of what you would think.
I go to Bricon Engineering tomorrow and see what they can do regarding the ball joint extenders. I've left this a bit late tho as usual :P
Will remove seats and carpet etc this week as well.
Im getting really excited now, my car is going to be soooo much quicker this time.
I found that the cost of machining one off items was about the same as buying the product new EXCEPT no guarantee on whether or not it works. Food for thought.
It depends, some people are interested in what your are doing and are happy to help out and dont charge too much, just depends on who you find
Im not paying $266US for some. Unless I absolutely have too.
I fitted some new linings to my old shoes old school style today :) I had some nice Pagid linings in that box of stuff Tony had given me. Complete with all the rivets etc. Once I got hem all done tho the drums wouldn't fit back on. However there are old and new style drums with mk1s and they have a different lip. I found some of the other drums and they fitted a treat. I am really happy I am doing this work to my car as it has always been less than average brake wise and I am positive that I will notice a huge improvement now.
I would put up some pics but it wont work :P
photobucket them Jem
Yea.......I'm hoping that vask will fix its prob. i see some people seem to be able to post up pics like Tom in his rover post ???
Easier to get a Photobucket or Flickr account for pics Jem - and then you're also not chewing up VASK bandwidth when people view the images. Good luck at the track day!
Quote from: BB on June 15, 2009, 08:49:11 AM
Yea.......I'm hoping that vask will fix its prob. i see some people seem to be able to post up pics like Tom in his rover post ???
Tom uses photobucket, as does 90% of the forum.
The problem with the forum upload folder is that once its full (as it is now) we have to go though and delete old photos. This isnt cool because there are a lot of useful images that we have to delete.
Best to get a photobucket account Jem, thats what I use :)
Quote from: Golfboy666GTI on June 15, 2009, 10:50:10 AM
Tom uses photobucket, as does 90% of the forum.
The problem with the forum upload folder is that once its full (as it is now) we have to go though and delete old photos. This isnt cool because there are a lot of useful images that we have to delete.
Best to get a photobucket account Jem, thats what I use :)
Cant you just increase the folder size in the admin settings ???
Quote from: Filx on June 15, 2009, 10:34:35 AM
Easier to get a Photobucket or Flickr account for pics Jem - and then you're also not chewing up VASK bandwidth when people view the images. Good luck at the track day!
Its actually worse using Photobucket or Flicker etc etc as they are Served out side of new Zealand..
Web storage Space Is far cheaper and Quicker than having to pay the excessivly over priced Bandwidth Bills we see here in NZ for when your Embedding Images stored on Offsite Servers..
as you are viewing the Page and your expecting the pages Server to go fetch the Image Data and then load them for you to see
but thats Admins call...
EDIT:
the Photo bucket situation is different again tho if you dont embed the images and just post links to them or a link to the slide show.. then it costs VASK no bandwidth
as it becomes you loading directly from the server...
Hence why no i have a tendancy to just post links...
And girls just wanna have fu un yea girls just wana have fun thats all they really want!
Im a dizz and I hate to have to do a photobucket.
But ill try.
I got my drums machined today at Ewans, and went out to Bricon to get my ball joint spacers made, they said no probs and they are going to cost me $120. Ready tomorrow. I cant wait to feel the new brakes and nolathane.
It great doing this work as it just makes the car so much better for everyday not just the track day.
Quote from: BB on June 15, 2009, 06:44:10 PM
went out to Bricon to get my ball joint spacers made, they said no probs and they are going to cost me $120. Ready tomorrow.
Really Jeremy, ready tomoro, wont leave any time for heat treatment, and what dimensions are you using?
Its quite any important structural part of the front suspension.
Quote from: qta4 on June 15, 2009, 07:03:00 PM
Really Jeremy, ready tomoro, wont leave any time for heat treatment, and what dimensions are you using?
Its quite any important structural part of the front suspension.
My thoughts exactly, I would think that these will come under extreme stressesgiven the number that fail in motosport generally, my advice would be to save them for the next track day if you dont have time to get them heat treated
how long does heat treatment take? heat it up to a certain temp, then quench it a certain medium, depending on the mechanical properties you require right?
or is there a different process that you guys are referring to?
I am not a metalurgy guy but i understand that it is not a case of heating metal up and dropping into a bucket of water or oil, its a science, that needs some skill, espescialy when its such an important suspension component.
i've done a few experiments with various metals, where i measured the Hardness and Toughness of certain metals before and after heat treatment, so i know the basics of the principals used, and what to do to gain certain mechanical properties.
I'm no metallurgist, and its not my field, and it does not interest me in the least, but i dont think its a long process to do, but like many things, it should be done by people who know what they are doing.
When I had my 10v exhaust manifold repaired, the engineer wrapped it in a blanket overnight to let it cool - and he checked it too, found another crack and, bless him, he welded it in the middle of the night :o
He certainly knows a trick or two, it's been fine for 12 months now.
John
They are being done as I said just spacers no heat treatment needed.
Ball joints sometimes snap around where they are grooved in rally cars when they bottom out heavily and they get twisted further than they can actually move. Other than that they don't fail unless they are worn to the point of popping out.
Looks like my 25 years on the cars might mean I know something, and my design was accepted without a blink from the pros.
Im sure anyone can knock these things up in 1/4 hour.
http://www.pmwltd.com/
Quote from: BB on June 16, 2009, 08:53:57 AM
and my design was accepted without a blink from the pros.
let them drive the car then.
Personally I wouldnt be able to drive 10/10ths knowing they werent heat treated. Seriously BB its cheap insurance compared to potential outcome.
I would ask your machine shop if they can do it for you, most engineering shops have some ability to heat treat small items like these in house. What steel are they maching them from
I have seen more ball joint break in track use than on rally cars, The saw tooth curbs give them a real punishing
Enuf said.
Quote from: BB on June 16, 2009, 08:53:57 AM
They are being done as I said just spacers no heat treatment needed.
as these are not heat treated, are they a different material to the standard components, if not, then maybe they should be heat treated....
No need to heat treat the blocks, it is not like the type qta4 shows, if I were going to get that type I would probibly just pay the $266US.
I realised you could just pack out the origional ball joint and fit longer bolts. People here thought that wouldn't work.
The guys at Bricon didn't seem to have that opinion and nor do I.
In their opinion the type qta4 has are more likely to result in snapping the top off the original ball joint which has the groove cut out all the way around the shank due to more leverage there.
brings to mind the utter genius of the Japanese who managed to develop metallurgy to almost space program levels about 1200 yrs ago....
its no wonder that there is not a blade on this planet that is even close to a Masamune produced Nihon-To
http://www.scnf.org/htreat.html
Gonna slice me some Chinese, oh yeah ..... >:D
I am the manufacturer of the ball joint extenders referenced in the pmw link. I have been producing these for 10 years with no failures. The design, material, the heat treat process and preventative maintenance are the things that make the difference between long life and premature failure. Blocking up the ball joint does nothing to change the geometry. The vertical relationship between the inner and outer pickup points stays the same so the roll center is not raised back up. It just lowers the outer end of the control arm. Also installing the extenders does increase bumpsteer, which has to be addressed by relocating the outer steering tie rod end.
Dave
Quote from: Pushbutton_auto on June 17, 2009, 01:02:35 PM
Gonna slice me some Chinese, oh yeah ..... >:D
mmmmm Tataki!!!!
Quote from: BB on June 17, 2009, 09:12:07 AM
No need to heat treat the blocks, it is not like the type qta4 shows, if I were going to get that type I would probibly just pay the $266US.
I realised you could just pack out the origional ball joint and fit longer bolts. People here thought that wouldn't work.
The guys at Bricon didn't seem to have that opinion and nor do I.
In their opinion the type qta4 has are more likely to result in snapping the top off the original ball joint which has the groove cut out all the way around the shank due to more leverage there.
Jeremy by raising your balljoint using a spacer and longer bolts wont do anything for yoyr suspension, as tha pivot points are what matters.
The inner pivot point and the outer pivot point are exactly the same, all you have done is lowered the outer edge of your control arm. So nothing changes..
the pivot points aren't the only thing that matter. The angle of the arm is also important. While I am not achieving everything I am far happier with the angle my A arms are on now.
I've had the alignment done and it feels great! Brakes are fantastic and the suspension is far more pliable tho that is probibly due to the removal of the ARB.
It runs very smooth and strong.
I'm all ready for a day of fun.
The pivot points are the critical differences BB, the arm can have the weirdest angle in the world but if you draw a straight line from the inner and outer pivot points of the control arm and it's the same as the factory one, then you have made no change to the suspension geometry. To raise the roll centre of the car, you need to either raise the inner pivot point of the control arm or lower the outer pivot point, with respect to the factory pivot points, to avoid exacerbating body roll.
I am interested to see some diagrams and learn what you guys have to say. I am thinking about what you are saying and I understand regarding the pivot point. However I still get the idea I am doing good by getting the arms straight. I will show you what I mean at track day. To hard to explain. I'm doing drawings here using a compass and drawing what I've done and I think it works.
I'm in no way saying I couldnt be proved wrong tho.
I would love to buy the real extenders and no doubt will in the end. I am very interested to hear what you say about the bump steer and what you need to do to correct that? What do you mean by relocating the tie rod end?
The shape or angle of the control arm has no affect on geometry as long as the location of the inner pickup to the chassis doe not change and as long as the location of the ball joint to the upright does not change.
When you lower the location of the ball joint in relationship to the upright with an extender, you also change the relationship of the of the ball joint to the tierod end on the steering arm. Abumpsteer kit has a bushing with a tapered inside diameter. The tapered hole in the steering arm is drilled out, the busing is inserted, with the taper from the bottom. This allows you to flip the tierod end to the bottom of the steering arm, minimizing the bumpsteer condition.
Dave
Quote from: pmwltd on June 18, 2009, 08:39:50 AM
The shape or angle of the control arm has no affect on geometry as long as the location of the inner pickup to the chassis doe not change and as long as the location of the ball joint to the upright does not change.
When you lower the location of the ball joint in relationship to the upright with an extender, you also change the relationship of the of the ball joint to the tierod end on the steering arm. Abumpsteer kit has a bushing with a tapered inside diameter. The tapered hole in the steering arm is drilled out, the busing is inserted, with the taper from the bottom. This allows you to flip the tierod end to the bottom of the steering arm, minimizing the bumpsteer condition.
Dave
My Balljoint extenders work very well Dave, Thanks very much for making them available to me.
Cheers Noel
My ball joint spacers worked very well thanks Bricon. I don't believe for a second that they didn't do anything cause I can feel what they did.
Its got everything to do with the fact that my a arm is now flat rather than pointing up wards and trying to pull the wheel in towards the body instead of going up and down over an inch or so at the furthermost out point it can. They even start to bind up the CVs and try to push the drive shaft into the gearbox when the arms are pointing up to much.
My car is so much more compliant over bumps now, it takes them instead of smashing over them.
I did also remove the front roll bar so I will refit that and see how much it was that that changed the set up. I know it will have, but more for roll than bump soaking tho I do also know they do stiffen up bump soak as well. I will be honest with my answers. I also have standard a arms I can refit to further assure that they do actually make a good difference.
I'm in no way saying this is better than the parts Noel has fitted bit i dont belive it is all about pivot points in this application its about having an a arm at 90 degrees to your wheel.
And to be honest you guys were all going on about safety first, then it turned too they wont do anything. Am I going to make my point if I can? Yes >:D Did they break? No of course they didn't.
Really enjoyed the track tyres tho I feel at 175 wide they would be more suited as a Targa tyre where you wouldn't want to much tyre width and ultimat grip as it would be less predictable when it let go IMO.
Some 205 slicks would be good for taupo on a dry day like that for sure.
I did find them to be just as VWrally said :) they slid progressively and you could just keep at them and they pretty much stayed the same and saved me a few times going in hot as.
Bit pissed off that that rear shock turned out to be a dud. As explained in a previous post after I had them rebuilt I found my old springs were no longer captive :P I think thats what blew them. I did remove them to save them and got new springs and even took them to the shop to say I want them checked but they said they will be ok and they often seep a wee bit of oil at the start. I was right tho I had stuffed one of them. mite pull it apart today and see if I can work out what happened to the thing.
I think I will get a set of lower harder springs for the back and lower but not too hard for the front coilover set to fit just at track days.
who wants to sell me a set?
BB
IMO you should be using the front (and rear) ARBs unless you are running spring rates close to what noel runs in his car. With the rates that Noel runs the ARB has little effect as it cant beat the job the springs are doing. The ARBs will help your car sit a lot flatter. Bear in mind that the front ARB controls the rear and vice versa
For you rear suspension you can pretty much run anything that fills the gap, generally the stiffer the better, In the UK it is not uncommon for trackday cars to use bumpstops to do the job, Ford Sierra ones work well apparently. The 1080 B&H car ran triumph 2000 springs in the rear on KYB shocks that had been extended using threaded rod and a bushin the midlle, very agricultural,very cheap but very effective
I can get you the part number if you are interested as they are in the garage
Just remeber dont change to much at once or you wont know what worked and what didnt, Glad to hear that you had fun and your ball joint spacers worked for you
The front ARB affects the rear and the rear affects the front ??? Is that true?
I have heard you need to make the compromise of a soft front to get the power down over harder which would make it corner flatter.
I don't want it too hard as i do drive it on the road mostly.
Thats why I think I will try to make two suspension set ups, the one i have now and a lower harder coil over set for track days.
So no answers on the front vs rear ARBs? I have never heard that the rear works the front or vice versa.
Anyway My car is good no probs with lowering blocks and i now have some fancy new track tyres to fit to my revolution wheels. I will get Tyreworxs to fit em for me today.
Not sure what to do with my other set of track tyres now, the 175 13s the new ones are 205 13s thanks too Nord. Anyone interested in buying them off me?
Well, the front and rear bars will work on their respective axles.
Front:
Soft = oversteer
hard = understeer
Rear:
Soft = Understeer
Hard = Oversteer.
It's a matter of how the weight is transferred from one side to the other when cornering. If there is a hard bar, there is more weight transfer to the outside wheel as the two wheels are not as independent as with a softer bar.
I think that's why some people remove the front bar altogether to get a better turn-in but without the bar, you get a bit more wallowing as the car will roll more. So, to stop the rolling, instead of removing the front bar, you add a rear bar or stiffen the rear bar so that more weight is transferred to the outside rear wheel when cornering, due to a lesser tendency to roll at the back and allow the car to rotate more freely. It also depends on what kind of springs you have in the car. Factory or stiffer and/or lower springs will all have an effect on how the car rolls and transfers weight on turn in and exit.
I haven't had a chance or the finances to do any experimenting though and all I have is theory from reading and talking to people...
Question is, did you understeer or oversteer into the wall at Taupo?
Thanks 5-pot :) i was really only asking as vwrally said befor ethat the front bar affected the rear and vice versa ??? i was hoping he could answer as he may know something that we dont.
Might just be the way I have always thought about it but if you remove a from one end a percentage will be transfered to the other end of the car.
This is how it was described to me ne day by a BTCC chassis engineer and it seemed to make sense They always adjusted the rear ARB to change understeer and the front to change oversteer as this provides the best way to gain balance in the setup without going to an extreme at either end. This is the way that I have alays remebered it
This is quite good as a basic understanding http://www.g33.co.uk/suspension_theory.htm
:) Thanks VWrally I knew there was something to be learned in what you said.
So on your track mk1 do you have the front ARB? Any type of A arm straightening devices like noels ball joint extenders?
They really are the business, I only made the ones I did as an experiment (plus I was too poor to get the good ones).
I believe they have made a noticeable difference tho.
Quote from: qta4 on July 20, 2009, 07:00:55 PM
Question is, did you understeer or oversteer into the wall at Taupo?
Hey? That wall just jumped out and attacked me. No under- or oversteer here... :-X
You really have to be careful with those errant walls eh >:D
I saw that crash and it was his lame audi handbrake taking to long to lock the rear wheels
Got the tyres fitted to the revolutions ;D they look BADASS. really happy with the look they have now.
Quote from: BB on July 21, 2009, 08:30:23 AM
:) Thanks VWrally I knew there was something to be learned in what you said.
So on your track mk1 do you have the front ARB? Any type of A arm straightening devices like noels ball joint extenders?
They really are the business, I only made the ones I did as an experiment (plus I was too poor to get the good ones).
I believe they have made a noticeable difference tho.
On Track Mk1s all suspension is adjustable Konis and heavy springs only no other changes made, B&H Car has boxed a arms only though I doubt the value of doing this.
When I get back to the track stuff I am going to try a set of these ball joint extenders an associated hardware to stop bumpsteer though as it all makes good sense . we dont actually run the cars that low we only lower them to the point where the A arms are flat
I didnt think my car was that low but even with my extenders it is still very slightly pointing upwards :P
Fitted the revolutions with the 205 track tyres and put them on the car.
They look utterly outrageous and sooooooo cool!
However they stick out by miles and rub insanely :P The rear, one side sticks out more than the other :P :P rear beam must be out of whack.
I am not sure what to do, I think the revolutions have alot of poke and i could try putting them (tyres) on different wheels OR I can make some insane wheel flares. This may be rather hard tho.
Anyone know about any laws or advice regarding making wider guards? Is this work you could do Vert?
Is vask going to allow pics again or do I have to go to bucket?
My car is fast. And it always goes.
Gotta join the Auckland car club cause never get to use it ::)
Can't you race at Puke nearly every weekend anyhow ?
No they have a open day about once a month or 2 months, but Puke is not the greatest. I mean its fun seeing how fast you can get up to down the straight but other than that its a bit of a boring track really and dangerous.
Show us a picture of your balljoint thingy things JEM
They are on my car. its is simply a packer.
Undo the ball joint from the arm find a piece of metal the right thickness to get the arms flat you need to machine it so the ball joint can sit on top I got Bricon to do it but really an angle grinder and a drill press is all you need once its the right shape drill the three bolt holes and put high tension bolts through.
They are not ideal but on a golf with straight up and down shocks pretty much they do work my car sits the same height but does not smash over bumps nearly as bad.
I would like to do the way the BMW guys do tho. Which is to bore out the ball joint and fit a rose joint into the bored socket. Then you make up a pin that bolts down through the rose and then goes up and mimics the tapered ball joint pin only long enough to allow the arms to go flat. You can make up different pins for different heights.
Doing it this way does give you the ball joint pivot point right at the bottom of the strut which is ideal but costs more than spacers like mine.
You have to remember on a car that the ball joint bounces up and down changing its pivot point all the time where as the inner a arm dosen't so as long as the ball joint can still turn with the steering and dosen't bind up with crazy angles it will work.
Hey Jem,
sorry but from the link that Noel posted: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?cmd=print&id=1363022
Quote
how you connect the ball joint with the A-arm's inner pivot points does not matter at all. All that matters is the position among these three points in the space. The A-arm is just a "constant" connector among these points and as long as you do not change the point's position in the space, the form (shape) of the "connector" does not matter. Sorry, I have no time for drawings right now, but I will find something that could be use to visualize this point later. But in few words, yes, the ball joint must be lower, so the camber curve has a different (better) shape, which changes with different (slower) progression towards positive values.
There's a lot of pictures that show this. All your packers have done is created an "L" shaped control arm, if you will, with the "long" part connected to the inner pivot point and the end of the "short" part connected to the balljoint. The two pivot points are still in the same position in space, with a different connecting piece. Your roll centre has not changed.
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterpyce.com%2FSuspension_Geometry%2FSuspension_Geometry_042.jpg&hash=0b89015ba8a737adf978a331f6b5fd9a3ab864ca)
This picture might help. A is the inner pivot point and B is the balljoint. your packers are similar to situation 2 and 4. The two pivots are still in the same place in space even though your arm appears level or with a downward attitude from inside to outside.
Quote from: 5-pot on November 04, 2009, 09:19:27 AM
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterpyce.com%2FSuspension_Geometry%2FSuspension_Geometry_042.jpg&hash=0b89015ba8a737adf978a331f6b5fd9a3ab864ca)
This picture might help. A is the inner pivot point and B is the balljoint. your packers are similar to situation 2 and 4. The two pivots are still in the same place in space even though your arm appears level or with a downward attitude from inside to outside.
That pic doesnt seem to work.
You are correct I have created a L shape. In that link they discuss a mk4 which has the strut at a far greater lean which means alot in this case. Because the mk1 stuts are almost vertical the ball joint dosen't really even pivot that much so its less of a issue.
yes you can still draw the same line through the pivot points but your forgetting to add the new line which goes out straight along the a arm now.
My ones get the wheel out to its furthermost track point and allow the a arm to swing in a more optimum range.
I suggest you do what I did and make some up yourself and fit them to your car and feel the difference like I did before boggling your mind with all this theory.
I have admitted right from the start they are not ideal and having the ball joint pivot at the bottom is best but in this case and on this car, they make it take bumps better which is what I wanted as it used to smash over everything.
This is getting a little tired now, vask seems to be full of genius's who don't want to try things themselves. I mean look how long that thread on vortex went on for its pretty complicated stuff and if one little angle or thing changes the whole equation is wrong.
My car sits the same is safe and the alignment was no problem to get right, it takes bumps better and I feel no more or less roll that I can tell. My wheels turn and my ball joints don't bind up and are straighter, not cocked over like they were when my a arms were pointing skywards.
I mean most of you think 3 buildings can fall at free fall so why the hell would I listen to anything you say :-*
Yep good pic and I totally understand, but that arc is not the only thing that matters.
If it was then why do they feel better and absorb bumps better?
oh that's right its a figment of my imagination.
Well, no, that arc isn't the only thing but with regard to the movement of the wheel with respect to the balljoints, I think it's very important. It's a very similar mcpherson strut in the Mk1 and the later cars that the model is related to but it still holds that the camber is changing adversely when the inner pivot point is lower than the outer.
I will eventually find/manufacture some extenders/spacers and try it out but until then, i'll hang on to my theories :) :P
Hi Jem How thick did you have to make you spacer thingys. 10mm, 20mm 40mm ?
They are about 20mm but I need to add another 10mm to get them completely flat.
Don't get me wrong guys I do understand what you are telling me but you also have to believe me when I say I'm not the only one who thought they would do the job and the fact is I do feel an improvement in bump absorption even if my roll centre hasn't changed.
The a arm also swings through a more ideal arc place and my track is out at it furthermost point.
Al if you want to correct your a arms I would suggest doing it the way the BMW guys do it, its also cheap enough and can be done by Bricons easy enough.
Or just spend the money on the ones Noel got as they are great, just a bit to much for my pocket.
Quote from: BB on November 04, 2009, 10:55:44 AM
They are about 20mm but I need to add another 10mm to get them completely flat.
Don't get me wrong guys I do understand what you are telling me but you also have to believe me when I say I'm not the only one who thought they would do the job and the fact is I do feel an improvement in bump absorption even if my roll centre hasn't changed.
The a arm also swings through a more ideal arc place and my track is out at it furthermost point.
Al if you want to correct your a arms I would suggest doing it the way the BMW guys do it, its also cheap enough and can be done by Bricons easy enough.
Or just spend the money on the ones Noel got as they are great, just a bit to much for my pocket.
Jem, most BMW suspension seem to have quite a lot of lean on the strut, like a Mk4 Golf.
No I don,t need to go that far as I am running a GTi set up which has an angled balljoint. Not the same as your set up. I was just wondering how thick you made your spacers. I think your way is better than no way. But you would have to do the same to the tie rod to get the most out of it.
Noel your actually verging on being a total cock now >:( >:(
I was smashing over some bumps today thrashing the hell out of my golf on a very bumpy road and it is far far better that it ever has been, it used to really smash and bang now it does not.
You really are being a dick Noel, after so many have agreed with me and even made them. They are tested for damns sake.
And after being so wrong about the mixture and silver paint you would think you might just shut up, in fact you even said you would.
Nik please don't you start up, your very comment there shows me you don't know what your talking about. And I mean that nicely ok.
I know Bmw stuff has a lean or really it dosen't matter if it does, the BMW guys way is good for Noel too with his simple maths as the ball joint pivots where he wants it too.
On a mk1 with its set up some spacers will work, as the outer pivot point dosen't really arc it just bumps up and down but Noel just cant seem to work that out.
Quote from: BB on November 04, 2009, 08:29:33 PM
Noel your actually verging on being a total cock now >:( >:(
How did you two survive a week together on Targa :)
Regardless of the theory being right or wrong, Jem claims to have made an improvement in the way his car reacts to bumps and consequently any bump-steer effects.
What he has done may not be correct with regards to geometry, in the manner he is describing... but, if it works for him then so be it.
I've taken his car for a quick squirt before he did anything with regards to balljoints and scared myself crapless as it crashed and leaped around over reasonably flush fitting manhole covers in the road.
I'm more than happy to take it for another drive to see if indeed Jem's spacer blocks do work, but at the end of the day it is Jem's car and as long as he's happy with it then that's cool.
Quote from: vwrally on November 04, 2009, 08:38:56 PM
How did you two survive a week together on Targa :)
Was tough at times that's for sure.
I have admitted long ago that it is not ideal and maybe the roll centres haven't changed I don't fooking know, All I know is it did what I wanted and that Bricon and all the teams I showed my drawings too agreed with my theory's.
I am the one who's made and fitted the effing things so maybe people should listen to me instead of a rude prick from Otorahunga who told me he would shut up about it.
I happen to be proud of what I did and feel I can help other mk1 owners solve a issue at very low cost.
So Noel, shut up about that they don't do anything ok.
Jem chill out man. Don,t get so defensive and uptight. You have done your car the way you want. People will always have differing views. Thats what makes the world go around. I do things the way I want and think is right. If someone comes along and points out their point of view or another potential way. I will always think about it. Doesn,t mean to say I,ll do anything about it. Just sit back and relax abit. This is after all a Public forum which everbody is entitled to their own views .
On another subject, Noel I think you are right. Your car is very fast and you will probably have to restrain yourself from going too fast in Targa. Paul drives his MK1 very well and very hard. I find that driving our Mk2 is great as it really doesn,t really go fast enough and you can drive it flat out at the track. Targa would be another story.
I have a woman at home to constantly undermine me, I don't need Noel too.
I have explained personally in a PM why I would like him to stop undermining me. He even said himself that was the last word he would say on the matter but he cant help himself.
Its a professional thing, he undermines me to my important customers and make's my job so much harder. Cause he thinks he knows everything. He made my job harder by not agreeing with me about the fuel mixture, he made it harder by saying don't touch the head gasket and why do you want to paint it silver.
That's why it pisses me off. He is correct about the pivot points being in the same place. He is wrong that it changes nothing.
It is a good cheap mod.
I don't know whether this is right or wrong Jem, but to be fair to Noel calling him a cock probably is asking for a reply ;)
People have done worse.
But I apologise, its not how I want to be, I'm under a hell of a lot of stress at home so I can blow. I'm sorry.
Don't worry Ritmo, i have been called worse here on Vask, it doesn't worry me at all.
Because when one is right, words don't hurt much.
But to fair to Jem, he believes in what he has produced, so we all must respect that, in fact he demands it.
Thats cool Jeremy.
Back on subject,
The Targa Rally for me was just such a buzz, i can see just what Greg has been going on and on about, also Beeker say the same stuff.
So now, early next year, i want to do the Targa Bambina, then we will see what happens.
I already have my copilot sorted also the service crew.
Plan is for Hayden ( my son) to be co- pilot and my brother in law leading the service crew.
I believe this Rally is held around Pukekohe.
Really looking forward to this.
Good luck with your rally Noel.
Your welcome to come do a before and after test with my spacers :) I've done it so respect where respect is due I guess.
We all deserve respect too, I don't demand it any more than you would.
And back on subject would be talking about my ABF golf not your desire to do Targa Bambina.
But that's cool Noel :-*
hey Jem,
if someone on VASK doesn not like what you're doing... damn them.... VASK is just a car forum, you dont need anyones approval... then again, nobody here is that qualified...
i liked VASK better when ppl respected others opinions and actions, and had the decency to hold there tongue finger....
Quote from: NasTnaS on November 06, 2009, 07:16:56 AM
hey Jem,
if someone on VASK doesn not like what you're doing... damn them.... VASK is just a car forum, you dont need anyones approval... then again, nobody here is that qualified...
How do you know what everyones qualifications are on the forum Nige?
Anyway, theres nothing like experience over a stupid piece of paper.
Devils Advocate ;)
Thanks Nasty,
Too be fair if somebody thinks somebody is steering everyone down the wrong road they should speak up.
I was interested in what Noel had to say so I asked many others and I asked a well respected engineering company who made them for me and I then fitted them and felt the difference.
That is the only reason I qualify that they do do something good.
Noel seems to find that hard to accept and that's fine, I have said I would shut up and haven't as well, its stuff we just push on with and work it out, squabbles are squabbles, adults are adults and should be able to say sorry and move on agreeing to disagree.
I was upset because I have clients who I would rather trusted what I have done than what he says. But that's another matter and I don't get the right to demand anything.
Its an interesting thing because at the end I wanted to explain to them the toilet seat theory I have but they were to full of themselves to even listen ;D
And that theory is, women usually want the toilet seat put down (not the lid, the seat), we as men think what's the difference? Its a 50/50 thing we get to it and its down so we lift it up or if they get there and its up they put it down so what the problem? And who should do what?
Well the answer is we should put the seat down for them cause its so effing easy and they are the bloody ones who seem to care so much about such a stupid issue ;)
I pride myself on being able to think outside the square and come up trumps, but I don't wax on unless I have personally tried something myself.
If you piss on the seat a couple of times they will stop nagging!
I quite honestly wasnt interested in your toilet seat theory Jeremy, it would just turn into another argument, over pointless crap.
You just seem to love being an antagonist..
And I think you are the pot calling the kettle black Noel ;)
And a bit too arrogant to see that.
You just proved that with your back on subject comment, then going on about YOUR Targa hopes in MY ABF thread.
But hey I'm used to hard heads.
Ha HA, the reason i did that was because you went on and on about your ball joint theories in the Targa thread......... ;D ;D ;D
Good shot ;) True.
Quote from: Golfboy666GTI on November 06, 2009, 07:52:53 AM
How do you know what everyones qualifications are on the forum Nige?
Anyway, theres nothing like experience over a stupid piece of paper.
i dont know, but thats why i had the .... at the end of phrase.
i disagree with the stupid piece of paper statement tho. IMO
There in my car, they work, end of story.
i just managed to fix the bloody nolathene bushes from sliding forwards on my A arms, The ones i have discussed that are supposed to give some return setting that people also disagreed with me about i recall.
i found a axle but was the perfect size spacer and even had a nice curved bell end to fit the bush better than i could have ever hoped for ;D
Quote from: BB on November 04, 2009, 09:33:46 AM
You are correct I have created a L shape. In that link they discuss a mk4 which has the strut at a far greater lean which means alot in this case. Because the mk1 stuts are almost vertical the ball joint dosen't really even pivot that much so its less of a issue.
yes you can still draw the same line through the pivot points but your forgetting to add the new line which goes out straight along the a arm now.
My ones get the wheel out to its furthermost track point and allow the a arm to swing in a more optimum range.
I suggest you do what I did and make some up yourself and fit them to your car and feel the difference like I did before boggling your mind with all this theory.
I have admitted right from the start they are not ideal and having the ball joint pivot at the bottom is best but in this case and on this car, they make it take bumps better which is what I wanted as it used to smash over everything.
This is getting a little tired now, vask seems to be full of genius's who don't want to try things themselves. I mean look how long that thread on vortex went on for its pretty complicated stuff and if one little angle or thing changes the whole equation is wrong.
My car sits the same is safe and the alignment was no problem to get right, it takes bumps better and I feel no more or less roll that I can tell. My wheels turn and my ball joints don't bind up and are straighter, not cocked over like they were when my a arms were pointing skywards.
I mean most of you think 3 buildings can fall at free fall so why the hell would I listen to anything you say :-*
Hey speaking of free fall did you see the news with that dingbat hob goblin Hoskings with the Architects and engineers for 9/11 truth?
How many of you still think it was the planes that bought 3 buildings down at free fall, one conveniently after they called all the firemen out of it.
Fitted my 205 race tread other day and took my mate for a bit of a romp.
Scares the crap out of me and him how fast the damn thing was!
Theres no room for error when its going like it does.
Feels like your in a baked bean can!
For race tracks only really.
Speed is scary.
Was fun tho.
Are you coming on the 11th then? :-*
Paid up and waiting! The rubber is awsum!
Fitted new steering rack bushes on my golf the other day and put some Valvoline 10/40 VR Racing! oil in it.
I wanted to get the synpower fully synthetic but it was twice the price so I got this, was only bout $46 trade. Its a semi.
Engine spins like a top, they are a beautiful motor the abfs. rev very well.
Steering is much firmer with new bushes. Tho it seems to track quite a bit. Do you think this is just the race tyres?
Got a new gearbox out of a 1990 diesel non turbo from pickapart. 160kms
Thanks Golfclass for the help.
Everyone is telling me that this is the box to fit out of the 020s.
Anybody know about this?
Its missing the outer linkage bit which is strange but Golfclass has one.
Good new front brake hoses if anybody needs some for their mk2. Very good value from there if in as new condition.
Tidy the fiat up and flick it of to cage and finish the MK1 man.
Im gona do a few track days in the fiat and see if I like it.
I keep spinning the golf :D
keep the power on! if i button off it gets sidewayz but then power on always sorts itself out!
Have you any sway bars? harder springs help!
Quote from: BB on February 02, 2010, 05:28:12 PM
Got a new gearbox out of a 1990 diesel non turbo from pickapart. 160kms
Thanks Golfclass for the help.
Everyone is telling me that this is the box to fit out of the 020s.
Anybody know about this?
Its missing the outer linkage bit which is strange but Golfclass has one.
Good new front brake hoses if anybody needs some for their mk2. Very good value from there if in as new condition.
It will be either a 4S or AWY, nothing great a bout them, 2y is the one to have ;)
Tranny Code Final
Drive 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
FN, FF, FH (most to 7/80) 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.97 0.76
FN, FF, FH, FJ (most from '81) 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.71
4Y, 9A, ACD, AEN (8v Close Ratio) 3.67 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.89
4S 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75
4A (1984 Deisel Rabbit only)) 3.94 3.45 1.75 1.06 0.70
7D, 7A 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.71
IS 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75
FK, FM, FD (Close Ratio) 3.89 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91
2H (83 GTI Close Ratio) 3.94 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91
4K 3.94 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.89
ACH ('85 1.6 Diesel) 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.75
AOP (Late 80's G/J) 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75
ASF, AON, ACN, ACL (8v) 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.75
AGS (86-90 1.6 Diesel) 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75
AGB, 2Y (16v Close Ratio) 3.67 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91
AUG (1.8 8v 90's G/J) 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.44 1.13 0.89
AWY ('90 Diesel) 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.44 1.13 0.89
AMC, DFQ, CHE (from '93 115hp) 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.97 0.80
ATH, DFP, CHD 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75
APW, DFN, CHB 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.85
AVX 4.25 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75
ACL 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.75
APW (from '93 1.8) 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.37 0.97 0.85
VW Motorsport 8V ???? 2.50 1.79 1.42 1.17 1.03
VW Motorsport 16V ???? 2.72 2.06 1.68 1.43 1.26
GP (3+E from '81) 3.89 3.45 1.75 1.06 0.71
GY (3+E 8/82-7/84) 4.17 3.45 1.75 1.06 0.71
GC (to '80) 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.97
GC (from '81) 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91
|
that shows the 8v and 16v boxes identical bar the 5th gear ratio. can someone confirm this?
Quote from: NasTnaS on February 02, 2010, 07:01:16 PM
that shows the 8v and 16v boxes identical bar the 5th gear ratio. can someone confirm this?
Thats all that seemed diff between them when I swapped boxes around
Quote from: NasTnaS on February 02, 2010, 07:01:16 PM
that shows the 8v and 16v boxes identical bar the 5th gear ratio. can someone confirm this?
Worthy to note 8v GTI and 16V GTI are the same apart from 5th gear
Standard 8v ACN AON etc are different in every gear apart from 1st
And the 16v box has a larger input shaft like late model 020's
Im a little worried this box has the larger input making my carbon kevlar clutch useless unless I don't use this box :P
I dont see a 2y on that list nutter what are they out of?
And yes Brendon its been on lift off that I have spun every time.
I want coil overs and to get the ass down ::) I fitted proper springs but maybe I need to cut a new ring groove lower down the rear strut on my billys?
Quote from: BB on February 03, 2010, 11:43:14 AM
And yes Brendon its been on lift off that I have spun every time.
I want coil overs and to get the ass down ::) I fitted proper springs but maybe I need to cut a new ring groove lower down the rear strut on my billys?
Do you have a rear sway bar? if so release it and see how it goes, should stop lift off oversteer.
I think he's taken the front one off... which explains the oversteer.
Quote from: vag_nutter on February 02, 2010, 06:54:03 PM
It will be either a 4S or AWY, nothing great a bout them, 2y is the one to have ;)
Tranny Code Final
Drive 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
FN, FF, FH (most to 7/80) 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.97 0.76
FN, FF, FH, FJ (most from '81) 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.71
4Y, 9A, ACD, AEN (8v Close Ratio) 3.67 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.89
4S 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75
4A (1984 Deisel Rabbit only)) 3.94 3.45 1.75 1.06 0.70
7D, 7A 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.71
IS 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75
FK, FM, FD (Close Ratio) 3.89 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91
2H (83 GTI Close Ratio) 3.94 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91
4K 3.94 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.89
ACH ('85 1.6 Diesel) 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.75
AOP (Late 80's G/J) 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75
ASF, AON, ACN, ACL (8v) 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.75
AGS (86-90 1.6 Diesel) 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75
AGB, 2Y (16v Close Ratio) 3.67 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91
AUG (1.8 8v 90's G/J) 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.44 1.13 0.89
AWY ('90 Diesel) 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.44 1.13 0.89
AMC, DFQ, CHE (from '93 115hp) 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.97 0.80
ATH, DFP, CHD 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75
APW, DFN, CHB 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.85
AVX 4.25 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75
ACL 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.75
APW (from '93 1.8) 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.37 0.97 0.85
VW Motorsport 8V ???? 2.50 1.79 1.42 1.17 1.03
VW Motorsport 16V ???? 2.72 2.06 1.68 1.43 1.26
GP (3+E from '81) 3.89 3.45 1.75 1.06 0.71
GY (3+E 8/82-7/84) 4.17 3.45 1.75 1.06 0.71
GC (to '80) 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.97
GC (from '81) 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91
|
Quote from: BB on February 03, 2010, 11:41:22 AM
I dont see a 2y on that list nutter what are they out of?
I do ;) They are from 16v golfs and jettas
Aha so do I now :)
And front ARB is back on.
So you recon I should remove the rear one?
I think its just too high at the rear.
I only oversteer when I first go at it like a rabid dog :P I then get sick of doing that and start to try and drive a bit more smoothly and tidily and it always seems slower but I'm sure it is actually faster.
Quote from: BB on February 04, 2010, 09:44:32 AM
Aha so do I now :)
And front ARB is back on.
So you recon I should remove the rear one?
I think its just too high at the rear.
I only oversteer when I first go at it like a rabid dog :P I then get sick of doing that and start to try and drive a bit more smoothly and tidily and it always seems slower but I'm sure it is actually faster.
Rear bar increases oversteer; I would remove one side and try it mate. The downside is you may increase your understeer but hey give it a go.
Quote from: BB on February 04, 2010, 09:44:32 AM
Aha so do I now :)
And front ARB is back on.
So you recon I should remove the rear one?
I think its just too high at the rear.
I only oversteer when I first go at it like a rabid dog :P I then get sick of doing that and start to try and drive a bit more smoothly and tidily and it always seems slower but I'm sure it is actually faster.
Jem, have you played around with different tyre pressures?
I Think if you look at my car it is high in the rear and this dosent help. However I think it is more that I seem to get excited and try to hard at the start ::) I then get over spinning and can get through the rest of a track day without doing it.
Its my car but its more me.
Yer......bit imbarisin. I only had a loose left front wheel :-[ Gearbox is fine.
Not quite sure how that worked out ??? Seems a huge oversight now.
I think my bolts may not have been the correct ones for the wheels as vw has about 3 different head seating angles. I have better ones now.
Quote from: BB on February 25, 2010, 10:02:49 PM
Yer......bit imbarisin. I only had a loose left front wheel :-[ Gearbox is fine.
Not quite sure how that worked out ??? Seems a huge oversight now.
I think my bolts may not have been the correct ones for the wheels as vw has about 3 different head seating angles. I have better ones now.
Scary stuff!
Yes scary :P
I had just checked my bolts before the track session too.
Not scary at the track as as soon as i could hear the noise I slowed and left the track.
However getting the idea that I had a stuffed diff was dangerous as it made me drive the whole way home with it getting worse and worse without me thinking to check the damn nuts.
I had the car jacked up and had the starter off and wires unpluged and then went to drop the drive shafts and realized i had one missing wheel bolt!!! So I thought Id bettr put it all back together and try it.
Gearbox is fine :)
That is how crap goes wrong tho, when you have it in your head that its something else.
Ah well let VASK bring the lessons to the rest of us.
Looking forward to Hans coil overs and then hit the track again soon as I can.
See if i cant slide down the whole lenght of that rear section after the hump, only did 80% of it last time.
Well, its done two track days since last posting.
Running great never misses a beat.
I am stripping the whole car with paint stripper now ;D
About 6 layers of horrible old paint.
Im going to do a race car paint job.
Remove all paint and bog, sand down body, prime, block back, paint black, block back, paint black again, block back, clear coat, block back clear coat, block back, polish. Dents stay rust welded or skim bogged with Newtech if just small insignificant areas.
I have stripped 1 door, the roof and one quarter in one day of like 8 hrs. Its hard but another day should see most of it done then the painting and blocking back don't really take so long.
Gona do it all myself.
Pics to come.
Harry and I are free Sunday if you want a hand stripping it Jem? And I can take that wheel off your lawn!
Good to hear BB, don't put too much bog in as it adds too much weight slowing you down ;) ;D
Good on ya Jem :)
Stopped in today - shes looking good Jem, should look good repainted 8)
Quite fun stripping all those years of paint off and seeing what you have.....
Of course Im doing it all outside so with the rain shes getting a nice browny effect :P
But it had plenty of that anyway and I will wash the whole thing down with rust kill acid then blow her over with some primer.
I think I will go and buy Altex coatings black gloss paint, they make good paint.
Im glad I have decided to just do it all myself, as vert knows then you cant argue with the results ;)
My results will no doubt be far more average than his but still complaining will have little effect.
Ill get you and Harry over to help me block her back Tristan if you get time!
All going well, quite impressed that im finding time to even get this half way done at pre xmas rush time!
I know I start late ;D but I was working till 10 most nights this week.
The bonnet is blocked back and primed, the doors are both sanded. One has the black primer the other still only etch primer. One side is done so only the roof and the other side and around the windscreen.
I think Im doing a good job!
Golfclass who never says anything on here but is a good golf man has been helping me god bless his cotton socks.
good stuff guys!how is old golfclass? i stopped by the other day and saw his valver outside.he should've come to the jambo
Golfclass sands good now. And takes the wise cracks in stride.
its getting all wet :-\
Well at the end of the track day it started to miss and shudder quite badly.
I thought I had run outa gas and sucked crap through but it was in fact the 30 relay.
It had got all wet in the rain when the dash was out and after I poped it open I saw it was all corroded and crap in there :-X
I had one in stock from Dubshack,$30 so fitted that and whammo its sweet as a boiled sweet.
Will go buy another now.
Also I think I have much more grip in my car to get. I havebeen doing quite well as far at times go and speed but now I feel as tho I had my tyre pressure way to high. Its 32 psi cold .....why I did that I dont know but I will go down to about 24psi next time and I am also going to make sure i can get negative camber and try to sort out the odd angles of my rear wheels.
I have another rear beam but Im not sure thats actually bent.
You can unbolt the rear spindles and fit shims of steel etc to get them angled better.
Many say how hard HD is on the brakes but to be honest apart from a dab before the tighter corners I use them bugger all, I can just go to the end and turn almost :o And thats with the low grip set up I have now.
I have lots to do with handleing and I will fit a bias valve to the brakes so I can turn off for track days and have some for if I do road work or passengers.
i have a bias valve i got given.
I noticed the rear wheels are crabbing slightly.
Might be a bent beam?
Yes it could be the beam tho i heard that it was crashed on the Piha Rd and repaired by that shop that used to be on Newton gully Rd, Vdubs unlimited I think.
Steve from there said he fitted a new rear beam but that the chassis may be a little bent.
Will have to do some measuring.
One side you can fit two fingers between the tyre and gaurd and the other side 3 fingers :P I have made this a bit better by fileing the bolt holes oval but i think there is more to do.
The main thing will be to achive some negative camber at the front and to loose some pressure in the tyres.
slot the bolting points and align it properly.
The rear beam is quite important really, if you suspect the beam is bent , then just dump it.
It is very difficult to measure , just get a good rear beam, god knows where.
With my golf i measured everything, with the assistance of a chassis measurement diagram( which i got on the interent).
I measured my car and found it was only1/16 of an inch out, thats about 64 thou for others here. stuff all.
So if your rear beam is visibly out, it isnt very good.
Yea...if you read I have a beam, and i did slot the bolting points. Its better but not perfect.
And Veedubs unlimited did fit a beam after it was crashed.
But yes there is more to do and i will look into it.
this car and driver have both come a long way in the last few track days. coil overs,rubber and sorting rear brakes is a big part of it.
jem is trusting the car and therefore driving smoother and faster.
good to watch. 8)
check this out at 1:30 mk1 abf is hard to shake![rear view full of mk1]
http://www.youtube.com/user/hartge535inz#p/a/u/1/VHEEIcL8i9s
Ha ha good vid choppy!
I sure did step it up after that big ass BMW passed me :-[
I can see how gutless I am on turn 1 when that car caught me so convincingly there. I remember pulling aside after T3 and then chasing for all I was worth.
You can see I do actually catch up again but he was fearless around traffic and i am very very careful. I don't really like to pass mid corner :P Its a track day after all.
Those BMWs were fantastic tho and you can see how well they got driven! Some great catches there in that vid thats for sure and then straight back on the gas >:D
I am actually visible in the rear view for most of that vid....trying to catch up but they were to consistent....they should have spun like all good BMWs.
How's the paint progress? Were you able to keep the rust from taking hold during the rain?
Its just as it was at the track day.
Rust is all good and stopped.
Will need to get back onto it though and do some more coats.
Need to sort my lights and window wipers out too.
It got a miss at the end of the last day and it was the ECU relay had got full of water and was all rusted up :o
All good now.
Have I told anybody this car goes like the clappers and rides really nicely. I drove it around town today toottling around slowly and its just so nice and there when you need it.
So civilized yet so grunty.
Glad to hear your work is sorting things out.
Is it all painted up and put back together now Jem?
Yea I slammed it all back together for a track day, could do with some more coats of paint tho.....
I just got a wof again yesterday but it always needs something done, its a VW.
(https://i.imgur.com/uc2RAu8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nYiS9Of.jpg)
All this butchery is getting removed >:D
(https://i.imgur.com/vqOkt4h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rS9I67A.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NdEbVTt.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bebI4vV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VuSnJ0i.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/otUeWi4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KuFQ3zC.jpg)