Just thought I'd kick off the new thread for the Vento coupe project. Please don't expect too many updates in the next few months as today's efforts were made to free up some space in Verts workshop. Thanks also to GTI VR6 for giving us a hand this morning - he made off with some bits as well - no idea why though ;).
Just a few pics to start with :)
The donor as you know started like this. 1.8 CLi with a punch in the rear.
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John had already done some work during the week and after a few hours this morning with the rest of the team we progressed to this
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And onwards to this :D
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And here is a quick pic of the Vento that will be getting the make over. A nice tidy car really - shame to cut it up. :D
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So the basic plan is a 2 door Vento, 1.8T, Mk4 dash and factory electronics, nice interior, coil overs, big brakes, decent wheels, etc.
Let the games begin ;D >:D :laugh:
phil can you please specify what chassis is being used and where it will be chooped? im still not certain what is used how to get the coupe? is it a 3door golf with the vento boot attached?
We will use the Vento body, chop the B pillar out and use the Golf's longer doors. The Golf's quarter panel including the B pillar will be welded into the Vento body. I still have to measure everything to decide where the best place to cut will be.
Wicked stuff guys !
Can't wait to see this one 8)
its these kind of builds/projects that want to make me move to auckland...
you don't need to move to Auckland,just think about a project for a while.
Most exciting projects are dreamed up and built in sheds in the back blocks of NZ
Quote from: qta4 on April 19, 2008, 09:40:29 PM
you don't need to move to Auckland,just think about a project for a while.
Most exciting projects are dreamed up and built in sheds in the back blocks of NZ
in small little towns just out of taupo aye noel ;)
i agree with euro-jet, this makes me wanna move to auckland too, theres just no vw parts close by, and im always so busy in my little town i cant b bothered driving 200ks to Auks to check things out
my main reason is just the great enviroment the guys work in...it always seems so posotive and theres so much to learn.
i know the forum is a great way to ask if you have a problem or need help.
but being able to go down the road and recieve help from one of the highly skiiled members is so much better.
Very quick update on the Vento - nothing too interesting just spent a few hours working on it today. :D Got it down to engine out, doors off and rolled into the corner. Next step is get her right back to her birthday suit but that will be 4 or 5 weeks away as there's other stuff to work on in the mean time.
Here's a quick picture for posterity ;D
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So here we go again. Can't make any guaranty's with this one except there'll be a a sh/t load of challenges, laughs and adventures along the way! :)
Not to much to update on this one as yet but we haven't forgotten. Interior is a bit more stripped as of yesterday. Headlining, interior plastics, dashboard is all out (let me know if you want a Mk3 Vento dash for any swaps as it'll be gone soon :D). Basically making a pile of stuff that is Vento specific that we want to keep and then any 4 door stuff is getting binned. The same will happen to the Golf with the 3 door specific stuff and then later (waaayyyyyyy later ;) ) we'll mix and match for interior bits and see what we can come up with. 8)
Look, there's a hole where everything was!
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Welded in a brace to support the roof so that the B pillar could be cut out.
The pillar was cut right at the roofline and also through the sill, main objective being that we could test fit the larger door from the Golf.
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We took a bunch of measurements from the Golf's door openining in the body so that with a bit of luck we can replicate these on the Vento body.
The rear swage line on the body lines up perfectly with the Vento's one. Next week we will cut the whole side off the Golf and start drilling it all apart to end up with the required panel incorporating the sill, B post, rear quarter and glass.
as the rear side windows look longer on the Golf than the Vento and would probably need to be cut anyway, can I make a plea for a "faster" angle at the C pillar to be more sympathetic with the slope of the back window? more work but a much nicer outcome
the Vento C pillars don't work visually IMHO
Nice to see some progress John.
Just came up with and idea/challenge/joke for ya >:D
Fit the Golf 3 doors to the Vento, then custom make RX8 style rear doors for the rear ;) hehe
Quote from: Golfboy666GTI on July 12, 2008, 04:44:17 PM
Just came up with and idea/challenge/joke for ya >:D
Fit the Golf 3 doors to the Vento, then custom make RX8 style rear doors for the rear ;) hehe
Or even better, do a MINI Clubman - 1 door on one side and two on the other ;D
Nice progress John, certainly ripping into it :)
Quote from: SteveC on July 12, 2008, 04:34:58 PM
can I make a plea for a "faster" angle at the C pillar to be more sympathetic with the slope of the back window? more work but a much nicer outcome
Already in the plans Steve! I never liked the rear side windows common to this conversion overseas and said from the getgo that we would change the glass or have new ones made so it has a more "factory" appearance.
Quote from: rambo_005 on July 12, 2008, 04:46:18 PM
1 door on one side and two on the other ;D
Hahahaaaa, thats what Filx said today!!
Next week will be the hard graft in cutting the other car apart and drilling out 100's of spotwelds. :'(
Well the 3 door Golf is no more, all cut up today. Both sides cut off the body and the rest cut up and into the scrap bin.
Tomorow will be interesting, going to start drilling apart the Golf sides in readyness to graft them onto the Vento shell.
Looks like we will be installing a sunroof now too, just cause we can while the car is apart, got a whole roofcut from another Golf so all the pieces are there.
Tilt and slide electric glass i hope?
Yeah baby, only the best :o
Arriving at the workshop yesterday morning I was greeted by various sections of Mk3 Golf. John had gone crazy with the cutters on Friday and dismembered the donor Golf ;D This is why you have to love Mk3s - you wouldn't really cut up a Mk1 or even a Mk2 possibly as they're getting a bit rare while Mk4s onwards are probably a bit valuable still.
Here's one of the sides at the start of the morning.
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After some planning, discussing, measuring it was in to the arduous task of drilling out spot welds. Essentially we wanted to pick the outer skin off so when we do the same to Vento we can graft the Golf side on in as factory a manner as possible.
This is not fun work but a few hours later we got left with 2 outer skins as per the below
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And the inner bits left over that are now in the bin looked a bit like this
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And for the record Phil, yes I would cut up a MK1 or MK2 in the same way! ;D
good stuff guys, Big ups to the team, for taking on a project of this size!
Thanks Nasty!
Edited my post now also re cutting a Mk1 or Mk2 :D
We also drilled and split a donor roof skin off the side rails as it has an OEM tilt slide sunroof in it that will be fitted to the project. Pictures of that next week as I forgot to take any pics.
Had a spare couple of hours today to start picking the side off the Vento, It will never be the same again! ;D
The C pillar area is going to be a bit tricky to get right first time, some carefull measuring will be needed here to make sure it comes out right. I may just decide on the rear window shape before the qtr panel gets welded on.
I decided to leave the roof on for now to stop the whole thing caving in, the roof is supported from the tunnel to the rain gutter area. I also added a brace from left to right and these will be cut out again later.
The air saw makes light work of it, the bulk gets cut away and then the spotwelds ground through leaving a nice panel to weld to.
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Quote from: vert1 on July 24, 2008, 05:13:07 PM
Had a spare couple of hours today to start picking the side off the Vento, It will never be the same again! ;D
The C pillar area is going to be a bit tricky to get right first time, some carefull measuring will be needed here to make sure it comes out right. I may just decide on the rear window shape before the qtr panel gets welded on.
I decided to leave the roof on for now to stop the whole thing caving in, the roof is supported from the tunnel to the rain gutter area. I also added a brace from left to right and these will be cut out again later.
The air saw makes light work of it, the bulk gets cut away and then the spotwelds ground through leaving a nice panel to weld to.
I love your madness John ;)
ONE SIDE IS DONE! watch this space! ;)
I'm watching it ... watching watching.... :-\
PICS!! ? :)
Patience Grasshoppa! ;D
John had done a bit of work on the car during the week and here is where we started on Sat morning. This is the Golf side clamped in place to test fit after a lot more measuring and cutting. At this stage the rear of the golf body side is overlapping the Ventos. (https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2FDSC01602.jpg&hash=5c77dbe8f72660af11b6b236c79b1e4d7d5dffbb)
A quick shot from the inside of the C pillar area cut away. Most of the inner C pillar will need to be fabricated as the Golf and Vento is very different. And as discussed we want to go with a reshaped window so all of this area will be all custom anyway.
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It was then a matter of cutting the rear part of the shells and preparing them for mating together. Ooooooh yeah, it's business time :laugh: >:D
Here is a shot of the join tacked together in preparation for the slow process of welding them up. I learned with welding panels introducing as little heat as possible is the way to go so they don't buckle. That means welding a bit, leaving it to cool down, come back and do a bit more. Not that I'm doing the welding as my main role during this process is to hold the light - something I'm pretty pleased about as it's tricky work requiring a lot of skill and tonnes of patience!
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The the join at the top of the door and the sill also needed welding - here's John hard at work. And yep, that floor is just as uncomfortable as it looks. :D
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More grinding! Good fun! ;D
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At the same time as this John was also re spot welding all the body seams along the sills and wheel arch, as well as the inner seams. In several places we seam welded the seam as well as spot welding it to add as much strength as possible.
Here's a shot of the join in the sill 90% finished
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Here's the top of the C pillar coming together
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And another. Note the masking tape on the cardboard gives an indication of how we want to the C pillar design to go (the cardboard is there to protect the windows from grinding sparks, etc)
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We will be doing some subtle smoothing where we can. So we dug out the filler from that ugly join under the tail lights
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And welded it up on each side! Smooth :laugh:
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And here is where we finished up for the day. There's still a lot of work to be done bit it's on and in place. The door fits nice and the gaps are nice. We put a bit more masking tape on to play around with window ideas. Not exactly super clear but below is a few shots for comparison between stock and a slightly fatter pillar.
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congratulations gentlemen, it's coming together well,
going to look quite long & sleek
Getting that C pillar sorted is going to be a mission. There's a few elements that need to come together in order for the rear window to improve the vehicles profile and make it look integrated and 'factory correct'.
;) looking real goooooooood guys! somebody create an award for these guys in what they do cuase they bloody well deserve it! well done ;D
Could you not just 'cut' the factory glass to the shape/size you want?
Quote from: dubstar on July 28, 2008, 07:38:22 AM
Could you not just 'cut' the factory glass to the shape/size you want?
Once its made safety glass cannot be cut....
A short update from last Saturday. We had a great day on the car - John had done some work on Friday arvo to remove the B pillar here was what greeted us on Sat morning.
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The fuel filler neck and door on the drivers side add a bit of a challenge. As this adds a lot of complexity we decided to leave the Vento one in place and cut around it. here's a couple of shots pre the final trim.
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We then hung the door to check measurements before proceeding with mocking up the Golf sides. Note in this pic the guard is only resting in place and is not lined up.
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We then lined up the side of the Golf on the body and scribed out the cut lines. Then it was a matter of removing the side again and cutting out the correct shape, flanging the panels and refitting. Sounds easy in practice but there's a good chunk of work in getting it right. The key is loads of measurements and aside from a small 3mm trim on the bottom sill it all dropped into place beautifully. :-* :laugh:
The on to the welding, welding, and more welding - but after pushing hard to get as much of it done as possible we ended the day with 90% of the welding done and the drivers side essentially on as per below.
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Getting this far has really been an awesome feeling. Sure there is loads of hard stuff to come, most notably recreating the C pillar area, but are going better than we thought we would and from my perspective it's been fantastic fun to be involved with the build. I've learned an absolute sh/tload of new stuff already.
Rear window glass though is looking like it'll be nearly impossible to get made in NZ. We are investigating the lexan options. Not ideal but kind of goes with the street racer theme. Plus gives us loads of scope for spare "glass" and coming up with whatever shape works best. So we'll see how we go.
Next steps after that are investigate the roll cage options, work on getting the roof done, start fitting the dash, finish the body work (and the endless list of other little things to do :) Woooohooooooooo - bring it on!)
A few hours of playtime today resulted in:
Look Ma, no roof!! ;D
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This enabled me to finish welding the inner structure on the roofline where the sides were joined and also fill all the holes left from drilling the old roof off. One of the support braces for the roofpanel was glued onto the sunroof skin so I removed this and welded it back onto the car in the correct spot as it will be near impossible to weld it correctly otherwise.
A quick trial fit of the Golf roof confirmed that everything is going to fit as predicted and although way too long it will fit nice once trimmed.
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Should be able to do a bit more tomorow hopefully and see the roof welded back in place with abit of luck.
Looks good, didn't think the golf roof would be so much longer... Plenty to play with.
Is that the roof off the VR6?
a thought on the side windows, why not leave them uncut and sandwich them either side with the extended C pillar inside & out, filling the gap to the glass with a rubber sealing strip?
I hope this pragmatic suggestion doesn't offend your artistic sensibilities ;D
Cam, Yes that is the roof off the VR6. Came in quite handy really and is being put to good use.
Steve, I actually considered this today but I just don't think it will do the car justice and may look a bit rough.
Is this going to wear a Golf or Vento front end?
Golf front end of sorts. Filx wants the Vento front for his wagon which he's welcome to.
No decisions yet about lights, grilles etc still looking for suggestions ideas really.
Cool... I like the Golf front on Ventos :)
Yeah funny that, people with Golf's want Vento fronts and people with Vento's seem to want Golf fronts ??? Whats up with that?
We have some good ideas on what we want it to look like but it won't be anything OTT.
Basically going to be full respray to white, completely debadged and the rest is up in the air and will probably change 1000x before all is done.
smoked lights all round will go good with the white i think!
simple grill maybe a abt item or similar?.....nice work so far guys!
I quite like the look of this from the back (without the gay looking cloth top) and yeah smoked lights would work better.
Hope you are going to fit the rear euro plate recess too ;)
Will look good in white.
Quote from: vert1 on August 05, 2008, 10:01:02 PM
Golf front end of sorts. Filx wants the Vento front for his wagon which he's welcome to.
No decisions yet about lights, grilles etc still looking for suggestions ideas really.
For the record I only like the pre facelift Vento front :P ;D I think the squared off face suits the wagons more. But yeah I think the Golf face on the Vento will be the business! :-*
Quote from: Filx on August 05, 2008, 10:52:00 PM
For the record I only like the pre facelift Vento front
I agree, there is something about the facelift grille that is ugly im my opinion ;)
More playtime today resulting in no more rear badge, front side indicators and the roof is trimmed, flanged and ready to weld back on.
Went and had a chat to Race FX this morning about a 6 point cage which all looks very promising, wish I had formers that large for our pneumatic bender as I'd have a go making my own. The largest formers I have is for 28mm pipe which isn't going to cut the mustard.
I had my cage built , just do it ;D
Quote from: vert1 on August 06, 2008, 08:37:55 PM
More playtime today resulting in no more rear badge, front side indicators and the roof is trimmed, flanged and ready to weld back on.
Went and had a chat to Race FX this morning about a 6 point cage which all looks very promising, wish I had formers that large for our pneumatic bender as I'd have a go making my own. The largest formers I have is for 28mm pipe which isn't going to cut the mustard.
Bent cage elements should run you somewhere around $700 FYI.
To have full cage done fitted and finished the estimate was $2500 so thats why I'm considering looking at doing it myself.
May look at putting in some lathe time machining formers for our bender.
From what I have seen its perfectly doable myself.
Quote from: vert1 on August 06, 2008, 10:03:10 PM
To have full cage done fitted and finished the estimate was $2500 so thats why I'm considering looking at doing it myself.
May look at putting in some lathe time machining formers for our bender.
From what I have seen its perfectly doable myself.
How serious is the cage design? What metal did they say they would use for 2.5k?
Didn't say what metal but looking at an E30 they had it looks pretty serious, probably way more than we need.
Quote from: vert1 on August 07, 2008, 07:51:31 AM
Didn't say what metal but looking at an E30 they had it looks pretty serious, probably way more than we need.
There is aways my mate down here that did Nick's, my brothers and my cage if you could be bothered bringing your car down to Napier?
Pobably a bit far Nik but thanks anyway.
Will do some more phoning around before we do anything else, there's plenty of outfits up here that can build a cage and I haven't given up on doing it in house yet either.
Looks like this may yet take another turn, Filx and I have been discussing a rear drive option for this thing (so we can do decent skids! ;D). Its in the early stages but if it is to be done then now is the time.
I'm figuring an E30-E36 independent set up- or for ease of availability heaven forbid something of japanese origin, Skyline perhaps?
Would like to stay with VAG engine so either the engine we have or one from a Passat will do with a supra box. Filx wants 1.8T and box in the back but i'm not sold on this idea.
Obviously a 4M would be cool but too much power loss driving 4 wheels = less fun.
What do you think Noel? More power needed?
Ideas guys?
Twin 1.8t
e36 floorplan..... engine, drivetrain the works.... mk3 coupe shell.....
Yes, but we want factory turbo power.
The problem comes from the old power to weight ratio thing.
I think you wil be lucky to get weight below 1100kg fiinished.
That means that to be competitive you will need 400hp.
If you went along with the FWD route,you compromise traction seriously, i am at the FWD traction limit.
So ,maybe 1.8t rear engined,or mid engined would work, but the front susension is designed for FWD.
You will have to increase caster to about 5 degrees ,also remove as much weight from rear of car ,to get close as possible to 50/50 weight distribution. just my 2c worth
Front Engine Front wheel drive..
Mid Engine Rear Wheels Drive is two much trouble and to much waste of time..
and Twin Engines is just plain Stupid..
Why is twin engine stupid?
Because it is.
I disagree with Hitman about rear engined, it is the only way to get traction ,post 350 hp
Well in any case we are comitted to 400+ HP front or rear drive ( which is a big ask anyway).
Thanks for the link Noel, those guys make some nice stuff! :)
Rear drive would be awesome but I just don't know about mid engine.
My prefrence would be conventional front engine/rear drive combo, don't know why but just like it that way.
Maybe it because Americans make their cars like that and you have an affiliation to BIG BALL American cars.
It would be a big ask to make a VW rear wheel drive with the engine in front.
What transmission would you use,
What diff would you use.
I like the idea of mid engined,using the engine gearbox combination they came with factory.
Hahahaha I knew you would see it like that ;)
We did actually consider a Lexus V8 but I was sensible enough to admit it would be too heavy. :'( .......no V8 :'(
Gearbox- Supra
Diff - BMW E30/36 or Jap like Skyline
Looking at it I think it will be easier to do front engine/rear drive as most of the tunnel is already there and engine bay is well big enough.
GO FOR IT.
But dont get too pissed off if i am stil quicker ;D
Like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5piMdPNzZz4
My preference is mount the FWD engine and box in the back using the stock K frame, replicate the frame mounts/strut towers, etc and lock out the steering. Suspension adjustment could come in the form or rose joints. Challenge with the Vento is unlike a Golf their is a potential height issue with the rear window. The upside is extra room behind the engine to mount stuff, e.g. big turbo >:D, exhaust system and mufflers.
But we'll see - all ideas takin' under consideration ;D >:D 8)
there is a mk2 powered by a 4cyl Porsche engine, RWD. All I can remember is it's from the US and was a two tone beige/cream and blur colour. Might be worth a thought.
Quote from: Filx on August 08, 2008, 09:58:31 PM
My preference is mount the FWD engine and box in the back using the stock K frame, replicate the frame mounts/strut towers, etc and lock out the steering. Suspension adjustment could come in the form or rose joints. Challenge with the Vento is unlike a Golf their is a potential height issue with the rear window. The upside is extra room behind the engine to mount stuff, e.g. big turbo >:D, exhaust system and mufflers.
But we'll see - all ideas takin' under consideration ;D >:D 8)
I would tend to agree on this idea, at least this way you can use all mk3 or mk4 bits, so if anything breaks easy as just go buy another one of those parts and fit, not custom this or that.
If you are dead set on FR running gear, needles to say than an SR20DET would have to be the go, big power small package and super strong and cheap as chips to modify.
I agree, with a front mounted engine and drive shaft to the rear diff you would lose alot more power to the drive train.
Porsche 944 or Alfa GTV V6 transaxle in the rear? I don't think drivetrain losses would be an issue, at least not any worse than FWD with the steering turned
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21809087@N05/2195552286 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/21809087@N05/2195552286)
but mid engined could solve the back window problem, crank it inwards at the back and have a freestanding C pillar to act as an airscoop ala Ferrari 288 GTO or Pug 205 t-16
along the lines of crazy ideas. Make it synchro! ;D
Ok, ok. maybe a little too crazy and extra diff+propshaft, etc is too heavy too, blah, blah, blah.
That's all I have to pester you with. I have no further input that is of use (not that the above comments were of any use anyway) apart from, "this is so cool" :)
How about transfering all the running gear from an S4 or RS4 , now that would be impressive
Yes, VERY cool Noel but there's only one problem- $$$$$$$$$$$$$
Just get a CCS or Giltrap car salesman to write another car off, then buy it at auction,easy really ;D
If you are going 400hp you will need 4 wheel drive to make the most of it. All the Euro forums are pointing in that direction. You can go 2 wheel drive but it will be a hand full. 4 wheel drive means you can use it all at anytime. ie an idiot could drive it without loosing it.Just wait until something with 4 wheel drive comes along. There are heaps of syncos around, you just have to be ready. By the looks of the trouble you guy,s are going to, a 1.8T with 4 wheel drive will be no problem and be well suited to you project.
humm.. i would be inclined to keep if front engined but tilt the engine right backwards to shift weight backwards..
if i were to rear engine rear drive
or mid engine rear drive..
then i would get that drill out and start loosing that floor pan and builiding a tubular chassis... exactly to how you want it..
then again thats just me...
then you can put what ever body you like on to it.. (just like a RC car) could be a MKIV one week MKIII the next and then the next day a BMW or what ever...
I'd like to see you drop in a Porsche powerplant under the hood and rwd. At least porsche keeps it in the family and is acceptable and won't be considered a bastardisation. The other benefit with RWD is you might be able to pull the engine back and improve weight over the front wheels by shifting it behind the wheel centre line.
e36 m3 straight in there, the whole works, then cage it and go racing....
AWD would be good as far as grip goes/ getting power down and is exactly the challenge I'm looking for but the added weight will kill a lot of the fun too.
There's plenty of metalwork left to do on the side windows so we'll take everything into consideration before big decisions are made.
Lot 33 at Turners today. 4 wheel drive manual 1.8 turbo. Engine is the wrong way around but for you guys that should not be a problem
Front wheel drive with LSD is the ticket. Lighter and faster
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VR6 in the front, and rwd?
Quote from: spooln on October 12, 2008, 08:32:59 AM
VR6 in the front, and rwd?
Turbo or supercharged VR6???
But you have done this before... what about a supercharged 1.8T?? different, low down punch from the supercharger and top end from the turbo... and very VAG.
After a bit of a break from this finishing other cars we got started again yesterday.
The doorhandles were going to be late Audi A4 but a bit of a problem finding damaged donor doors means we will be doing MK4 Golf rear handles as I already have plenty of them.
We want to have all the metalwork done this side of christmas so that the painter can do his part of the bodywork and get the repairs/mods in primer.
The rear side windows are going to be plexi as glass is too cost prohibitive and they can only do a curve one way anyway, the side windows are actually compound curved so plastic looks like the best solution.
Yesterday we spent most of the afternoon looking at/playing around with making a cardboard template for the side window, after quite a few attempts and little changes we came up with a shape that works really well.
Its not that much different from what it is now but looks factory.
The old glass was cut out and I started cutting the frame to begin re-creating the window opening, hopefully next sat will result in a finished side but we'll see.
Here's a few pics in follow up to Johns post above.
Started with playing with tape and marking out a few options until we felt we were on the right track. We then ended up with a cardboard template. Here's a few vies of the template in place. Hard to show well in a photograph but you probably get the idea :)
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John then cut the section of the edge of the window out of the C pillar
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He then reformed it on the bench tightening the curve to fit the template. Here's a picture from the outside and inside with it clamped in place for a test fit.
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And you can see how it lines up with the template back on the car.
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Next steps are to cut out that top corner structure, reshape it and shift forward to complete the window frame. Then remake the missing parts of the C pillar to complete the outside. We will then re-add the inner C pillar structure which will complete that side of the car. Then it's on to the drivers side C pillar, complete the door handles and do the roll cage.
Our goal is to have all the bodywork completed by Christmas so the car can go to the painter. Wish us luck! ;D :laugh:
Its looking good guys.
Attacked the side window today, just concentrating on the left side for now.
I started by welding in place the main frame from last week, adding a support at the top to keep it in place so that we could section the top corner and shift it further forward.
Once the top corner piece was positioned and welded in place the gap inbetween could have a filler piece made and welded in.
It really started to look like something and you could begin to visualise what it was all going to look like, after cleaning up some of the welds and jagged edges I made a C pillar filler piece from some sheet metal and began to weld that in.
A painfully slow process of weld, wait for it to cool, weld some more etc ,as the temptation of just welding it all in one go was quite great.
If it all got welded in one go it would just become a wobbly mess because of the heat distortion, the other probem with a mig welder is that the metal pulls the panels into a V shape which then need hammer & dolly to flatten them again.
Totally satisfying to be getting to this stage and to be able to see what the side windows/C pillar will look like, A lot more challenging than just simply doing an engine transplant which is just what I was looking for in this project.
The rear end has had a hit at some stage so the boot lid didnt fit all that great with the gaps being quite wide at the rear and tapering smaller ate the window end.
The solution was to weld some panel steel to the top corner of the quarter panel / boot corner and attach a pulling porta power to a hole in the boot floor thus being able to pull the sides in, didn't offer much resistance after that! ;D
Result = nice boot to body gaps and also the tail lights line up with the bootlid now.
Filx has a bunch of pics which will make all of this make more sense.
Ok here's the pics. ;D
To follow on from what John has said after some discussion and measuring with the eyechromoter the corner of the old window frame was chopped out to leave us with this nice looking hole.
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John then cut the section just forward of the corner out and transplanted the corner piece into that gap. Here it is tacked in place
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He then transplanted the left over bit from the top of the window frame into the gap between the pillar and the corner as per below.
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This started to give us an idea of what it was going to look like.
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Action shot of the man at work - everyone likes sparks and fire right? This was the early stage of cleaning up curves and the big hole in the pillar.
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Then some careful scribing and cutting created a nice patch out of panel steel and here it is tacked in place. Slowly, slowly from here on in. You can't hit it with too much heat or it pulls and buckles like you wouldn't believe.
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Then the long process of weld a bit, grind a bit, manipulate the panel, etc. It's a matter patience and extreme care coaxing it into the final shape. And after a long day we ended with the below!
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Then as John alluded to we needed to sort out a bit of misalignment of the boot as the Vento must have had a light hit in the rear at some stage. Couldn't have been much as the boot floor is mint but both corners just needed a few mm pulled in to get a perfect gab with the boot lid. Check this bad boy out - you could fold the car in half with this thing!
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Great work guys, that C pillar looks great, well done!
Any idea what colour you want to paint it when the body is all done?
At this stage we've agreed on Mk3 VR6/GTI white. Just a really nice clean colour that should show the lines well but has the OEM look to it as well. We'll be using all Mk3 GTI skirts and VR6 Euro lip in black but body coloured side mouldings and bumper tops like a facelift Mk3.
looks great, good work fellas :D
Quote from: Filx on November 16, 2008, 10:57:04 AM
At this stage we've agreed on Mk3 VR6/GTI white. Just a really nice clean colour that should show the lines well but has the OEM look to it as well. We'll be using all Mk3 GTI skirts and VR6 Euro lip in black but body coloured side mouldings and bumper tops like a facelift Mk3.
Black rims would look cool it as well.
Quote from: Golfboy666GTI on November 16, 2008, 11:07:21 AM
Black rims would look cool it as well.
already have the porsche replicas and O.Z rims sorted
those OZ's will look killer!!
Will be good to get it in primer so we can test fit susp, 993 turbo Porsche brakes and get an idea of how the Cup1 wheels will look.
The OZ's will have track rubber I think as these are much lighter than the other wheels, black would be a cool look on those.
looking real good guys! you guys wouldn't by any chance have a position open as a fly on a wall for me?? hehehe i just love this type of work....creativity and initiative! Well done, cant wait for this New Zealand first to hit the roads! 8)
Quote from: vert1 on August 05, 2008, 10:12:09 PM
Yeah funny that, people with Golf's want Vento fronts and people with Vento's seem to want Golf fronts ??? Whats up with that?
We have some good ideas on what we want it to look like but it won't be anything OTT.
Basically going to be full respray to white, completely debadged and the rest is up in the air and will probably change 1000x before all is done.
How about do something really crazy and invert the whole car
Install the Engine and drive train in the boot and make it drive backwards
ie Rotate the interior, now that would be pretty funny to see!!
(i can picture it now people seeing a Viento driving down the motorway in reverse.. but wait all the people in it are facing the correct way (could be a good laugh for a show car)
Quote from: Filx on November 16, 2008, 10:57:04 AM
At this stage we've agreed on Mk3 VR6/GTI white. Just a really nice clean colour that should show the lines well but has the OEM look to it as well. We'll be using all Mk3 GTI skirts and VR6 Euro lip in black but body coloured side mouldings and bumper tops like a facelift Mk3.
White and orange accents would look sweet as well - along the lines of Porsche.
Insane build. The effort put into this project is astounding! Can't wait for the end result.
Loving the shape of the custom window and c pillar... going to look wayyyyyy better than the stock Golf window
Quote from: AngleBox on November 17, 2008, 06:17:05 PM
White and orange accents would look sweet as well - along the lines of Porsche.
That would look great, white and anything bright or fluro is quite big in Europe at the moment...
how about bare metal it and then electro polish it or unleash fury on it with a buffing wheel. and then Clear Coat!-
Mucho progress on the Vento, cut the right side window out this morning and started cutting up the frame to replicate the LH side we did last week.
Pretty straight forward and having done one already it seemed somewhat easier, although it took just as long.
Softlad popped in for a looksee in his wagon which had us thinking about doing a 2 door wagon for the rest of the day, thanks softlad! :D
Spending the time making a cardboard template of the new window a couple of weeks ago paid big divedends today, by doing the second side it was easy to compare the window opening by offering up our template to check clearances etc.
I have to say the second side panel looks much nicer when welded and ground, mainly because we made a small mistake on the 1st side and all the extra welding needed to fix it means that its just not quite as good.
Outside quarters done we got on with finishing the plug welds along the bottom of each sill and grinding these up.
All the other repairs/modifications had started to go a little surface rusty so it was best we ground these up and put some etch on them until it goes to the painter.
The LH sill had some "el bodgo" repair done by some clown at some point and the metal had gone quite rusty with a couple of rust holes apearing, a quick prod with a screwdriver told me exactly what I didn't want to know! large patch panel needed. :(
Few cuts with the airsaw revealed all, "there's a big hole where everything was" ;D
Don't know why I got so fussy fixing this as we are covering the sills anyway ??? I guess do it once, do it right still applies here.
With the patch panel made and welded in, ground up its back to how it should be.
Next week its the inside of the C pillar to finish plus a few other bits in the engine bay to fill and then off to the painters for primer and a different look ;D
Quote from: vert1 on November 22, 2008, 05:56:12 PM
Softlad popped in for a looksee in his wagon which had us thinking about doing a 2 door wagon for the rest of the day, thanks softlad! :D
My god! IVe had the same idea! for a mk3 2 door wagon and also a mk4 2door wagon! ........hmmmm?
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Would need to use the longer doors froma 3 door like we are doing with the Vento, either do a panel van or.......... :laugh:
Quote from: vert1 on November 22, 2008, 06:24:11 PM
Would need to use the longer doors froma 3 door like we are doing with the Vento, either do a panel van or.......... :laugh:
yeah i just quickly moked that up on ms paint .....it will actually look like a stretched 3 door golf version lol...but dam kool
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What an awesome day yesterday! Seeing the bulk of the metal work now done is massively motivating and exciting. It was the bit that was a bit of a trip into the unknown (for me at least) - but I guess there's only one way to find out and that's charge into it.
So to get to this point feels pretty cool - not too bad for a couple of amateur panel men if I do say so myself :D Our aim is to to have the car sent away to the painter by the week of the 8th of Dec to prime the outside. Once back we'll get into prepping and painting the engine bay and working on the roll cage. We're leaving the roof off until the cage is complete to make it easier to install and paint. We're also thinking of painting the roof dark gunmetal grey to offset the white. I know the different coloured roofs are "fashionable" at the moment - but having grown up with Minis it's a look I've always liked.
So here's pictorial recap from yesterday - possibly not too exciting as pretty much the same photos as the other side but yeah - hopefully it's interesting for people to see. :)
As it started in the morning
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Window edge cut out
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Modified and tacked in place
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Patch piece made
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Welded, ground and smoothed
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Hole where rust was in the sill
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Patched
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Finished
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We also folded all the guard lips under to give extra clearance for wheels and tires. We're not expecting to run anything with hard core width or offsets, but a little extra clearance always helps.......... just in case :D
looking Really good guys! Nice work! must be happy as with the outcome so far? Question with new Quarter window angles - how you guys gone overcome the inside plastic fittings that surround the windows inside the car? Cut and Plastic weld to similar fashion as metal and get re-textured?
Looks really good guys, no doubt you are both learning a lot about panel beating and more fabrication.
Next step is Motor and gearbox,any thoughts yet John?
Arno: the interior panels are pretty far away but yes if we decide to use then I'll cut and plastic weld them.
So far we have decided not to use a hoodlining etc so may just run door cards and rear qtr cards.
Noel: Thanks, I'm pretty stoked with how the metal work came out.
This really was something I wanted to learn more about i.e to get the metal nice enough so that it doesn't need truckloads of poo to get it straight and I feel I have done that. If i was to do it again i'm sure I'd be capable of better still, but overall pretty damn happy. ;D
Engine & box, as you know the aim is for something that makes lots of powaaaaa!!
Filx and I are leaning very much towards ATP's 400 bhp kit which will still allow our factory ECU to be used, its right on the limit but we'll see.
Defo new rods and forged pistons with lowered comps, OBX turbo manifold and custom downpipe.
Already have a slippery diff for the box, the biggest thing slowing us in that department is $$$.
Doing the cage myself with help & guidance from RaceFX so thats next along with fitting the dash and painting the engine bay hopefully in Jan 09.
Well,John, at least you dont have to buy a new TV ,so Glenda should let you buy a BIG turbo and all the associated stuff.
Really looking forward to the engine build,should go well.
True true, mind you she never minds me wasting money on cars so thats not a problem anyway. ;D
Good girl Glenda, bit like Bev ;D
Forgot to post the new +10HP door handles :laugh: After our dramas trying to get some B5 Facelift donor handles and panels we flagged it and here's the result of John playing around with a stock Mk3 handle.
Boring handle
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New refined motorsport inspired handle (just needs final smooth and paint)
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Motor will be a 1.8T with aftermarket rods and pistons as John said. Currently investigating the turbo side of things. GT2871R seems to be the smallest turbo that can get us to our goal. It should also spool relatively quickly. The question is do you spec a bigger turbo (e.g. GT3071R) that will achieve 400HP at lower boost and also allow you to lean on it a bit more later on if you want to?
As John said money might be the challenge as the car will come together quicker than cash flow :'(
Had my painter call in today to go over what needs doing to the Vento, made a list for him (quite a long one ;D)
He seems to think a week should do it, although undoubtably this will stretch out to 2 weeks as it always does with these jobs.
Anyhow its booked in for next monday so I have to get my act together and get the inner C pillars done, started on one side tonight by trimming down the original Vento one I cut out previously.
All worked out great, got it tacked in and fully welded in a couple of places. Will try to get one side finished tomorow night.
Cool, it's all happening very quickly now, in typical vert1 fashion ;D 8)
All a bit too quick really, but there's still a long way to go.......
hopefully not to quickly.....dont want to think of... aww I could of done this and this ..... aye?!
Good stuff to know this is coming together so fast and in such good Quality! good one mate! ;)
Managed a couple of hours play time tonight and got one inner C pillar finished, a lot more work than first thought and quite difficult to make it look nice.
Could have just slapped it in but that just aint my style. :P
This shows the hole as it was with the inner structure cut away.
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This is the pillar with all its structural integrity back in again, a bit hard to make out in the pic but you get the general idea.
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A little bit of a belated update from last Sat. With the push on to get the car over to the painter John had done a lot of good work during the week but there's always a tonne of little things you need to do to finish stuff off.
With me re fitting the front suspension subframe, A arms, etc and scrounging up a nice variety of wheels to get the Vento rolling John set up about finishing the inner C Pillars and doing a variety of final touches. This was mainly a few tweaks in the engine bay like moving the washer bottle mount from the passenger tower to the drivers side and fitting the Mk4 wiring duct as per below
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And here is a couple of shots of the car before the arduous (in what must have been 25+ degree heat) push around the corner to the painter to work his magic :)
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Hope you didn't exceed the recommended speed for those spacesavers while delivering to the painters eh?
Coupe though? In profile now it looks more like the sucessor of the Audi 80 2-door, or even the lineage of the original vdub notchback. A 2-door saloon car. It'll be interesting to see how much more rigidity it has now.
I see what Wilco means, but I think fiddling with the rake of the rear pillars would have introduced other issues: roof height towards the rear; rear windcreen size; airflow (rain flow) dynamics down the screen. Therefore tinkering with the shape inside the pillar has helped allude to a coupe, without extreme cost.
With all this engineering John, i hope you havent increased the weight too much, or you will need 450 hp to cope ;D
Car should be considerably lighter than a normal Vento Noel,
No rear seat, belts, doors/locks/regulators, door/qtr glass.
It will be interesting to weigh a normal Vento and then ours when finished.
The term "coupe" is used loosely, it just sounds better than 2 door saloon ;D
Hah, yes it does.
I really respect what you're doing with this car. one question, if you do all that modification and body work, why not shave the hood squirter holes?
Quote from: morrisster on December 05, 2008, 02:13:45 PM
I really respect what you're doing with this car. one question, if you do all that modification and body work, why not shave the hood squirter holes?
I would think because you need to have working squirter's for a WOF.
They are yet to dissapear, will relocate them to the plastic rain tray under the bonnet.
This car will end up with a Golf bonnet anyway so there's still some time left for modifications.
mk 3.5 cabrio have the squirters attached to the wiper arms... you could use those?
True that, although you'd have to find some first.
Quote from: vert1 on December 05, 2008, 03:05:22 PM
They are yet to dissapear, will relocate them to the plastic rain tray under the bonnet.
This car will end up with a Golf bonnet anyway so there's still some time left for modifications.
a carbon golf bonnet? ;)
Hadn't thought of that, a VERY good idea. :P
Just so happens I know where there is one that is available...
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Volkswagen/auction-191230186.htm
you guys doing a golf front end on this? any idea if the vento headlights could be chucked my way for a purrrdy price? lol :-*
I think Filx has his fingers on them already. ;)
:'( booo.....all good! i still gota make my way to you to get my hands on that rear door window rubbr, ....whats the way you gona go with the tail lights? smoked/clear/ standard?
Will be smoked, have some already.
Not much progress at the painter yet, bit busy. Hope to get it back next weekend.
putting the washers jets on the rain tray could make them incredibly difficult to aim, due to the low angle between the screen and the jet,
I've spend a lot of time trying to aim the washers on the VR6 and one still squirts over the top of the screen!
look out for a whacked Mk5, they have lovely fan jets for the screen wash
Quote from: SteveC on December 06, 2008, 08:14:20 AM
look out for a whacked Mk5, they have lovely fan jets for the screen wash
As do Mk4s
are vento front ends hard to come by in NZ?
Much harder than a Golf, there's just not that many Vento's around.
Its coming back tomorow, called in at the painter on my way home tonight and he was just spritzing it (spray filler)
All looks great so far, really good to see it with all the mods primed and the whole thing looking more like car without the welded joints visible.
Will start on the cage tomorow and see where we get, probably go back to the painter mon-tue for him to finish the other bits & pieces he hasn't had time for yet.
Once the roof skin is welded back on he'll prime the whole car and then its just top coat.
awesome, starting to take shape :)
Will you be installing chrome mats and fluffy dice and road runner seat covers when its ready?
Other than that its looking a good project.
After pushing the car back to the shop this morning we started with making a X brace for the rear shock towers tying them into the boot floor.
Just a bit of extra strength in the rear with the C pillars being modified so much the brace ties all of the rear towers & structure together.
The other thing we got onto was the roll cage, since I don't have 30mm formers for our pneumatic bender we just used some 25mm pipe and bent up both sides of the main hoop, positioned them as best we could and welded them together to make our template.
I'll take it to RaceFX tomorow for him to bend one up for me so that I can then begin welding all the base plates in and should then be able to finish the rear part of the cage next weekend.
Fitted the heaterbox also to see what clearance we have left for the front part of the cage, as long as we make it as close to the A pillar as poss it will work out so that we don't have to cut much out of the dash.
Its easy enough to send the car out to have a cage made but I'd kinda rather make my own since we have most of the gear, After talking to RaceFX he suggested that their shop bend it up and we install it, this way he can still sign it off so that its all legal.
The aim is to have it back to the painters at the end of next weekend so he can continue with the bodywork over the hollidays.
Awesome day on the car on Sat - you wouldn't believe how much fun it is to be involved in the design and making your own cage! Really great stuff.
But first here is the car on the way back in the morning. The painter still has a lot of work to do but it's nice to see it like this - feels like it's really coming together now.
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This is the main hoop template John was talking about. This took a bit of time and couple of attempts to get right - hopefully the boys at RaceFX can get the real thing as close to this as possible.
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And our new strut tower brace. They shouldn't move much :laugh:
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WTF !! :o If my car comes back from the painters looking like that I'm going to be pissed!!! ;D
John, life will be easier if you build a platform for the base of the roll-hoop to connect to. That way you can lift it up into place, but with the roof off, perhaps you're sorted?
Going to have a proper read tomorow of your regulations booklet you gave me, want to be very clear about base plates etc because once its made I aint cuttin it out! :P
Will make bases first, weld them to the floor and install roll hoop.
The roof was left off on purpose so that I can weld the cage together much easier. The only thing that annoys me is that we don't have a tig welder for nicer smaller welds but oh well the old mig will have to do.
Super happy with progress and how its starting to look, the space savers will have to dissapear soon tho.
Look at lapbelt harness attachment points while you are at it. You'll want to get those welded in at the same time.
Will definitely do that thanks for the reminder.
Looks like bolt in side intrusion bars are a go too, since its going to spend a lot of time on the street I feel having them removable is the way to go with this car.
400 hp plus space savers would make an awesome drift car ;) wayhooo!
Quote from: vert1 on December 15, 2008, 11:00:52 PM
Will definitely do that thanks for the reminder.
Looks like bolt in side intrusion bars are a go too, since its going to spend a lot of time on the street I feel having them removable is the way to go with this car.
I agree. Much handier to be able to get in easily if you're going to be using it on the street. That being said, I would buy your seats now, before you put the side intrusion bars in to suss out exactly how you want them to sit and the bar contour.
Got seats, donated from Filx's wagon ;D
Disagree about the removable bars, if car is going to be motorsport , just leave it for motorsport.
Glenda will just have to leave her modesty at home, just like Bev does ;D
Quote from: vert1 on December 16, 2008, 08:47:41 PM
Got seats, donated from Filx's wagon ;D
I dont think they will work with a rollcage John.
Also, I have a good design (not used in my car) for cross bars that work well for getting in and out of the car.
Quote from: qta4 on December 16, 2008, 09:00:44 PM
Disagree about the removable bars, if car is going to be motorsport , just leave it for motorsport.
Glenda will just have to leave her modesty at home, just like Bev does ;D
If the car is primarily a street vehicle with a cage for track use, a removable bar would be the bomb. I commuted to work in the Anglia for 6 weeks with a roll cage .... don't do it if your priorities are street first, track second, especially given it sounds like road seats are going in.
With a race bucket it's more difficult to justify. If you are going to run the Mk4 dash, I'd spend a bit of time measuring Filx's ride as well to understand the relationship between seat, bar, steering and dash.
Will make bars removable, I don't want to clamber over the side bars when I drive this thing to work and back.
We would be lucky to do two trackdays per year being realistic, maybe Filx will do some dragracing with it but not me.
Making them removable is just a little more work, but easy enough to do.
Going to look at hanging/bolting the dash support off the rollcage and tying that back to the body's rain tray, will ask Andy first if this is allowed. Looking at how the dash support is fixed to the A pillar normally I don't see a problem here.
Why don't you think the seat will work Nik?
We had them in place when making the template roll hoop, good clearance all round and they sit nice and low.
Quote from: vert1 on December 16, 2008, 10:21:38 PM
Will make bars removable, I don't want to clamber over the side bars when I drive this thing to work and back.
We would be lucky to do two trackdays per year being realistic, maybe Filx will do some dragracing with it but not me.
Making them removable is just a little more work, but easy enough to do.
Going to look at hanging/bolting the dash support off the rollcage and tying that back to the body's rain tray, will ask Andy first if this is allowed. Looking at how the dash support is fixed to the A pillar normally I don't see a problem here.
Why don't you think the seat will work Nik?
We had them in place when making the template roll hoop, good clearance all round and they sit nice and low.
Motorsport NZ doesn't seem to like reclinable seats with harnesses, you cant have a back seat either.
Ok, didn't know that but will look into it further.
No rear seat or belts, all mounts & brackets removed already.
If its only doing the odd track and drag meet will it have to comply with Motorsport NZ or only in organised events like Targa etc
Quote from: gti vr6 on December 17, 2008, 09:21:44 AM
If its only doing the odd track and drag meet will it have to comply with Motorsport NZ or only in organised events like Targa etc
Yes, the LTSA doesnt want to know about rollcages and the like, that is Motorsport NZ responsibility, you have to have a Motorsport NZ COD to pass a WOF if you have a cage in your car.
Authority card. John won't get a COD with this car!
Picked up the main roll over bar and extra tubing from RaceFX today, got to say Andy is super helpfull and an all round nice guy.
Roll cage construction is all go for the weekend, already have base plates made just need some time to fit and weld it all.
Rear half of the roll cage is complete, welded the B pillar base plates in so that the main roll bar could be positioned and welded in.
Plenty of measuring to make sure everything clears and is nice and straight, ended up angling the roll bar towards the rear a little to make it line up with the B pillar as it just makes it look a little more intergated.
Once the main hoop was fitted I made some punch hole plates to tie the B pillar to the cage, meanwhile I got Filx to start grinding the rear stay bars so they have a nice fit to the main roll bar.
With the rear tower plates welded we got one rear stay completed by lunchtime, it all started to look pretty good at that stage.
Time for a nice coffee and lunch at the local cafe, we seem to be getting really good at this part ;D
After lunch we marked out the position of the second rear stay, ground this to suit and finish welded it.
Quite a bit of time has gone into making everything square and also visualy correct as far as angles go etc.
We decided to do the diagonal bar in the main roll hoop as that was just the best place to put it, with that also installed the last thing we got done was to make a mock up front leg so that RaceFX can bend a couple of these for us.
Got to say that everything worked out super well today and totaly stoked to be making this ourselves.
Definitely a good day today - loads more fun mixed with a good dose of hard work. We're not roll cage experts but with careful reading of the regulations and some advice from Andy at RaceFX we got stuck in and hopefully we're on the right track. :D If anyone has any comments, criticism or advice - please post up. We value everyone's input as there's lots to learn and it helps us get a better result.
Anyway John made up some punch plate to tie the main hoop to the B Pillar as per Exhibit A below :laugh:
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And then after getting the main hoop exactly where we wanted it was welded in place
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Then it was on to the bars running from the main hoop to the rear strut towers. We formed up the base plates and welded those to the towers and then ran bars back. All the shaping of the ends of the bars so they sit neatly against the other pipe work, or the base plates, was hand scalloped into shape using a grinder. There's a lot of trial fitting and tweaking to get everything right - I've certainly realised where the cost is in a roll cage and have new found respect for the pro guys like RaceFX that produce such nice cages.
Here's a shot form the front with the bars to the towers in place
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Then the cross bar for triangulation for the main hoop was put in place. We chose to go from the drivers side corner to the opposite foot. According to the regulations you are allowed to triangulate back to a strut tower (which would give more interior space) but we felt going down to the floor behind the seats was a better idea in this case as it appears to provide a better angle to support the main hoop.
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And here's an "arty" interior shot - actually that's just my excuse for it being a bit dark as my camera was running out of battery and the flash wasn't activating :laugh:
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The final part was making the forward bars that run along the roofline and down the A pillar to the floor. There's a few different angles of bends to contend with but again we formed up a template in small tube. I'll take it into Andy after Christmas and get them to make up the proper version. Then once fitted it's on to fitting the dash structure and dashboard and making the side intrusion bars.
Then it's on the "easy" stuff ;) - finishing body work, paint, fitting suspension and brakes, building and fitting engine and wiring loom, fitting up the engine bay, intercooler piping, and the myriad of other little things that are required. Bring on 2009!!!!! ;D 8)
You'll want a horizontal bar in the back to run your harness' to. It's not your only option, but it makes is easier to keep the required angles.
Quote from: Golfboy666GTI on December 17, 2008, 10:10:23 AM
Yes, the LTSA doesnt want to know about rollcages and the like, that is Motorsport NZ responsibility, you have to have a Motorsport NZ COD to pass a WOF if you have a cage in your car.
Did you get a COD for your car? I'm not eligible due to engine swap, but I have considered getting one.
Quote from: AngleBox on December 21, 2008, 08:36:05 AM
You'll want a horizontal bar in the back to run your harness' to. It's not your only option, but it makes is easier to keep the required angles.
Correct, its in the works we just ran out of tubing yesterday.
Looks awesome already!
So it should look similar to this when finished??
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Quote from: ballin on December 22, 2008, 08:39:14 AM
Looks awesome already!
So it should look similar to this when finished??
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Whos Mk5 is that? Is it in NZ?
you might want to make sure the horizontal bar is mounted high enough to allow HANS fitment. Check the motorsport manual for the regs, but basically it needs to be at the same level, or slightly higher than the holes in the seat that the harness passes through. That MK5 in the photos doesn't comply.
I think that you will find that horizontal to down 20 degrees is approved for Hans, so that Mk5 might be ok
http://www.motorsport.org.nz/Pdf/LiveMM34%20Book1%20App2%20SchA6.pdf
Thanks guys - that's great input. We'll be pretty careful where we put the final bar - I'm thinking we almost need to get the seats sorted first and then work on the cross bar.
Quote from: Filx on December 22, 2008, 11:55:51 AM
Thanks guys - that's great input. We'll be pretty careful where we put the final bar - I'm thinking we almost need to get the seats sorted first and then work on the cross bar.
Before you do any more bars I would recommend seat installation - also it would be ideal to have the steering wheel in place as well to ensure alignment, height, position, etc suits. I spent alot of time getting in and out and moving the seat up, down, fore and aft.
Yep good call! Steering wheel will be height and reach adjustable (as per Mk4s) so has some adjustment built into it there which is nice - but looks like getting the drivers seat in place could get bumped up the task list :) Still, plenty of other stuff to go on with as well of course.
A quick update, went to see the painter tonight and most of the bodywork is done just waiting on a couple of little repairs and a coat of primer. Once this is done its just up to us to do the final block sand in readyness for paint.
Will go and collect the front cage bars tomorow as they are ready now, saturday will see rollcage fabrication continue and then we can start looking at fitting the dash around the cage etc.
Looking forward to it. Any further on color selection?
Mk3 white is the colour.
Great progress today eventhough it was really too hot to work.
Got the car back from the body shop yesterday and its gone from blue to gray/pink ;D
Its at a stage now where we can final block sand it when we are ready to paint it, all the swage lines are nice and crisp.
We will firstly sand and paint the engine bay in the next few months so that things can start to go back together.
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The front bars are finished and in which means that the basic cage is done other than the removable door bars.
We started with welding in the front floor plates I made a month or so ago and then with a lot of grinding and fitting we made the front downtubes to length and welded them in.
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Using a rotary hole punch we made some punch plates to tie the A pillar to the rollcage making all of it much more solid.
Placed the roof back on for a final look see and all is ok so this can now be welded back on again.
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Started on fitting the MK4 dash this arvo, airsaw in hand the cutting could begin.
Quite a few test fits and more sanding its almost done so next week we'll start on fitting the dash support, got a good idea of how I want to tie the cage/dash support/A pillar together- should come out well.
The heat on the A & B pillars from attaching the cage to the shell can cause them to warp. Double check all your door tolerances and such while it's still 'in the rough'.
The gaps are sweet mate, solid as a rock.
After all its a solidly built Volkswagen as opposed to a flimsy Ford :D ;D
Quote from: vert1 on January 24, 2009, 09:33:33 PM
The gaps are sweet mate, solid as a rock.
After all its a solidly built Volkswagen as opposed to a flimsy Ford :D ;D
Are you proud of the fact VW managed
some improvement to automotive standards in 30 odd years? ;D Don't be a hater!
Ohhh come on man, I'm not a hater- I even own a Ford that alone gives me the right to mock them >:D
wow only just stumbled across this .AMAZING! cali style !!!
Well, a bit of playtime this afternoon with good results.
The dash had most of the trimming required done last Saturday and we actually had it sitting in the car then too just to eye up where it is going to be mounted.
Today I narrowed the dash support bar to clear the front downtubes of the cage, once bolted to the dash i placed the dash with support tube in the car and tack welded it to the cage to hold it in place.
Using cut down MK4 dash mounts I welded these to the rollcage to hang the support bar from.
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The downtube is also attached to the A pillar at the point where the MK3 dash support would have bolted in.
Finish welded the mounts in place once I was happy with everything and offered up the dash support bar
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Have begun tying this back to the bulkhead and will also install tunnel support tomorow, should be able to knock the dash job on the head tomorow to continue with the easy stuff and the part of the project Noel has been waiting for ;)
Just a little more Vento progress
Further to Johns pics here's the dash support looking down through the screen at how we mounted the supports near the steering column - note the spacer (30mm) in the middle of the pic. With the dashbar tied to the roll cage AND the car body as well as through the firewall it is SOLID! 8)
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The dash slots in very nicely. Lessons learned from my car have made this install a much improved process - we're getting them down pretty good now ;D. The dash slots in place unbelievably sweetly and here's a few shots of it in place. 8)
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Note: We probably won't run a glove box and just trim any unneeded plastic - what do you guys think?
Here's the fit around the cage. A bit of closed cell foam tape to close up the gaps will just finish it nicely.
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Then on to the steering column and after hybridising the Mk4 and Mk3 columns here it is in place with the wheel. As the Vento is pre airbag this wheel will see us through the build but a nice deep dish Momo or something would look cool in future.
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And a few last pics with the dash and steering in place.
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From there we stripped the front off the car and everything out of the engine bay to begin the prep for painting the engine bay and interior. Engine bay will be white like the rest of the car however we're thinking of painting the interior in a dark gunmetal grey type colour, probably also with a satin/non gloss type finish. I think white's just a bit bright to live with inside the car with the amount of painted surfaces that will be on display.
The photos look great, but have to say looks even more impressive in the flesh, and there's never a dull moment at the workshop, with the R32 bits jigsaw into the VR 4motion of subverse, the mk4 manual v5 wagon, about as common as rocking horse poo in NZ, John's supercharged VR 4motion Bora guided missile, and the VR6 MK3/4 wagon, and my mk2 8) VW nirvana
Always good to catch up with you Paul, I'm thinking we should have a bit of a VASK meet there at some stage to talk trash about cars ;)
Quote from: vert1 on February 01, 2009, 07:25:13 PM
Always good to catch up with you Paul, I'm thinking we should have a bit of a VASK meet there at some stage to talk trash about cars ;)
I'd be keen!
R32 dash would look good in there. Easier to clean shiny paint, and where on the Mk3 will you see paint where glare will matter?
Quote from: vert1 on February 01, 2009, 07:25:13 PM
Always good to catch up with you Paul, I'm thinking we should have a bit of a VASK meet there at some stage to talk trash about cars ;)
Sounds like a plan, even more VW nirvana at your place, it could be a VW overdose >:D >:D
We decided to clean the engine bay in readiness for paint tomorow, getting rid of 16 years of factory wax and other crud proved a piece of cake for the steamcleaner untill it stopped working half way through :P
With no time to waste it was onto a heatgun and degreaser to finish the job, in hindsight it would have been quicker to fix the steamcleaner and finish it that way but its done now.
Back to factory shiny blue paint, will sand and prep the bay in the morning and by afternoon there should be nice shiny coats of alpinewhite applied ;D
About the glovebox, you may find it handy to keep it if you start installing aftermarket gauges or computers or any extra non factory electronics that you might ever want to view but not want on show/display all the time.
Not sure if I made any sense there?
Quote from: robh on February 06, 2009, 10:06:34 PM
About the glovebox, you may find it handy to keep it if you start installing aftermarket gauges or computers or any extra non factory electronics that you might ever want to view but not want on show/display all the time.
Not sure if I made any sense there?
Not to mention toilet paper and a spare pair of undies and shorts!!!
You could keep the stig in there.
He's just a wee fellow like frodo
Quote from: robh on February 06, 2009, 10:06:34 PM
About the glovebox, you may find it handy to keep it if you start installing aftermarket gauges or computers or any extra non factory electronics that you might ever want to view but not want on show/display all the time.
Not sure if I made any sense there?
Makes sense Rob, we do have one so thats something that can be decided later.
Painted the bay this arvo, nice shiny 2 pack white. Who needs a spraybooth when you have natures bake oven :laugh:
Sure was hot out there, paint was literaly dry as soon as it hit the metal.
I take it the blue squished car in the background is the wrecked R32...?
Sure is, just waiting..................
PS like the doorhandles....did you guys drill the std ones or is that something that you made?
Yeah, hahaha they are not quite finished :laugh:. Its just a stock MK3 handle which had the grinder taken to it and then holes drilled in it.
Will have to finish it and do the other side also, going to paint them body colour.
hehe, you guys are pretty serious about weight reduction aye.... :D
Not really but just trying different things ;)
Quote from: NasTnaS on February 08, 2009, 02:29:16 PM
hehe, you guys are pretty serious about weight reduction aye.... :D
They will need to keep weight way down , or produce more than 400hp ;D
The glass sunroof must weigh a wee bit?
Up high -2BHP? :o
That would make it 398Hp, still just enough IMO ;D
If we were building a dedicated track car it wouldn't have any of that crap and we would be out to make it as light as poss, I just don't see the point building a car I would only use once or twice a year to go to the track but thats just me :P.
We did consider making a lexan roofpanel after we see how the side windows turn out.
Just ;D teasing John ;D
Oh okay i thought this was a track car. Sorry
So you'll be trying to open a can of whoop ass on the track then?
Or is it too early to start talking track trash? :laugh:
Quote from: GTI's on February 08, 2009, 07:11:24 PM
Oh okay i thought this was a track car. Sorry
Will try to do 3 things, road / drags / trackday.
If I can't use it there's no point in having it. ;)
Will it have ABS and airbags?
Makes me wonder how many cars one needs John, my golf is road registered,Bev and i have taken to the beach twice so far, usually drive to most events,except Taupo.
I like its dual purpose.
If it was a dedicated track car it would have a sequential 6 speed box and Berg cup arches ;D
Can relate to that all too well Noel, getting old too so my days of hot / uncomfortable / noisy cars are just about done.
A lot of fun can be had with a dual purpose car, just depends what you want from it. 8)
Quote from: qta4 on February 08, 2009, 07:20:32 PM
Makes me wonder how many cars one needs John,
You're kidding right? What's the current count 2:1 cars to people at your place ;D
We have an S4,S6,Toyota Hiace van, T4 VW van,Passat 1,8t,VW golf 20vt, and a Isuzu truck,cannot think of any more ;D
Here's a few shots from yesterday. At risk of belittling the many hours of effort to get the to the painting stage by summarising it into a few short words - but prepping the engine bay and sanding it down is just that hard slog work you have to get through. And sufice to say it was nice to see it as per below :laugh:
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John fired up the gun and got cracking
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Engine bay done. Who needs a bake oven - 30 deg outside should do the job :D
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Quote from: GTI's on February 08, 2009, 07:19:29 PM
Will it have ABS and airbags?
ABS yes, but no airbags. :)
What colour is she going to be?
Mk3 GTI white - going for a nice clean OEM look. But with a dark coloured roof and interior.
Quote from: Filx on February 08, 2009, 09:30:50 PM
Mk3 GTI white - going for a nice clean OEM look. But with a dark coloured roof and interior.
Just the though of that color scheme makes me tingle with appreciation of what this is going to look like! do you guys think you will have it ready for Vw nationals?
Thanks Golfbag. Nationals '09 is a bit close I'm afraid. Though there's no ultra fixed time line we're aiming to get it to the stage where it is sent for final exterior paint by mid May. So it will be all done except the engine at that stage (suspension, brakes, wiring, interior, fuelling etc). Then once it's back from the painter it will then be the engine side of things - which will be the final hurdle to get over.
true true! Good things take time especially this one i think! sounds like everything is in order and going good..... ;)
I hope John ate his dinner off that before he painted it!
Here's an engine bay update after John had been chipping away at the car over the last few days.
Note the Mk4 wiring duct on the passenger side and the Mk4 fuel lines and fuel line duct on the drivers side. The Mk4 fuel lines were fitted so everything in the engine bay clips together. They are too short for a Mk3 at the back - however as we'll be running an external fuel pump set up (Bosch 044 or Walbro 255) we'll resolve that issue at the same time as putting the external pump solution together.
Note also the ABS pump in place with the Mk4 brake lines modified and bent to fit back to a Mk3 VR6 brake booster and master cylinder - but using a Mk4 reservoir cap so we can keep the low fluid warning system. The original plan was to use a Mk4 booster but this does not clear the fuel line duct.
You'll also see the modified single wiper conversion which relocates the wiper motor towards the centre of the car and therefore allows clearance for the Mk4 plastic wiring duct in rain tray on the drivers side - a very neat solution allowing us to route all the wiring in as OEM style as possible.
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Today we set about cleaning up the suspension arms, K frame etc. The front hubs also got new wheel bearings and a good clean as did the VR6 A arms. Just need some new ball joints and the poly bushes and we'll get everything assembled. We also got the coil overs out and put the Mk2 style top mounts on them to get them read to go in. Mmmmm shiny new bits :laugh:
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Finally the K-fame got a bit of strengthening added 8). We had a good look at the bolt on lower brace on my car and as this one does not need to be removable John bent up some thick wall tube and welded it into place. A quick lick of paint and it'll be ready to go.
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The other interesting thing we found out is that this (possibly all) Vento has a wider rear axle than a Golf, 1375mm compared to 1360.
I kept the rear axle out of a GTI 16V for use in the Vento but after measuring the one in the Vento today its actualy wider than the GTI one
(16V GTI should be plus running gear like VR6)
Supposedly a VR6 Golf has a wider rear axle (yet to confirm this by measuring) so maybe this is the same as used in a Vento, certainly the swaybar is the same size on all models.
There is nothing to suggest that the Vento we have has been crashed at some point which makes me think that they all have the wider rear beam being a sedan.
None of it really matters but it was quite interesting all the same as filling the guards requires a smaller spacer with the Vento rear end.
Also had a visit from Damian this morning and then Nik and Caro this arvo, looking at the cage Nik suggested another way of welding in the side intrusion bars so that they are not in the way getting in and out.
I've come up with a solution that I think will work quite well so I'll ask RaceFX next week to see if its legal to do what I'm thinking.
Quote from: vert1 on February 14, 2009, 06:41:13 PM
The other interesting thing we found out is that this (possibly all) Vento has a wider rear axle than a Golf, 1375mm compared to 1360.
Glad to hear!! 7.5mm each side helps ;D
Dennis, had a quick google tonight and it seems most sites say total track width for Vento/Jetta 3 is 1448mm and 1435mm for Golf 3 which confirms what we found today.
Interestingly (well not that interesting :laugh:) even the Golf 3 VR6 is supposedly 1435mm so maybe you need to be looking for a Vento beam ;D and yes we are using ours :-*
Is this car coming to the track day in June?
I doubt it unless lots of $$$ appears by then ;D
Quote from: Filx on February 14, 2009, 06:03:40 PM
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There nothing quite like seeing someone pull it to bits and do it all properly
Looking good
Thanks for meeting us at your workshop on a Sunday John ;D
It was good to finally see the other cars along with the progress on the Vento project.
Quote from: vert1 on February 14, 2009, 09:46:10 PM
most sites say total track width for Vento/Jetta 3 is 1448mm
Makes me sad when I think of the one I dumped with the body of the Vento I wrecked...
Yup, coulda used it in your Mk2 :'(
plenty of vento being wrecked ;)
very interesting about rear beam ! great pics and informative demonstrative thread ! thanks :)
Looking great! I wasn't expecting the final colour to be white!
So you guys are planning to track this thing?
Thanks for the comments guys,
Will do track days with it and also have ago at the nightspeed drag wars once completed.
At the point of purchasing a turbo in the next couple of weeks, certainly a lot to be considered in choosing the right unit to do the job.
We have pretty much flagged purchasing a "complete" kit and will do everything ourselves instead.
There are some VERY good deals on turbo's here in NZ at the moment.
Just in follow up on John's comment on the turbo side of things - there are some great kits (especially out of the US) but with the exchange rate, plus shipping, plus GST/Duty(?) it's impossible to make it stack up. Plus in the case of the Vento putting what would be a Mk4 kit into a Mk3 would mean some mucking around anyway so piecing everything together locally turned out to be the only viable option. And it will be an interesting challenge that will provide experience that can be applied to other peoples 1.8T cars in future.
Having said that and even though we will look to source key components locally to keep the costs down, we may look overseas for the exhaust manifold and are likely to look overseas for the tuning solution.
After two months of casual reading up with the last two weeks of solid investigation I'm pretty much thinking we'll go with the below.
Garrett GT2871R
Compressor Wheel: 53.1mm Ind, 71mm Exd, 56trim with 0.60AR cover
Turbine Wheel: 53.8mm Diameter 76trim
Turbine Housing: T25 with .86AR or .64AR cover.
We'll stick with an internally wastegated turbo as well for simplicity.
We haven't quite decided on the .86 or .64 exhaust housing. Both should get us to our goal HP (400 chp) at around 23-24psi boost. The .86 would have a softer hit but make more top end power and can take us quite far past 400 if required later :D, the .64 will spool up a little earlier therefore have more "area under the curve" and better response. From what I can tell the GT2871R with .64 exh should make full boost around 4200-4500rpm range. We will probably run a tubular exhaust manifold though which might bump this back 500rpm or so. That is a bit of an unknown factor though.
So I'm leaning towards the .64 as technically it sound more driveable - the interesting thing is there is a variety of opinion on the internet where people argue that the softer hit suits FWD cars more as it is less likely to break traction. However I think if this turns out to be the case there are tools to be able to limit boost or alter boost curves to avoid this - so the .64 still wins.
If anyone has any thoughts they want to throw out there would be great to hear. :)
I think the Garret turbo would be better, mostly because of the softer approach to power delivery.
The T25 unit would make great HP for a rear wheel drive car, where traction is more.
For a front wheel drive car, i have noticed that traction is good, but when my car gets to 3k revs all hell breaks loose. Then you have to let the acceleration decrease,to allow traction to come back.
So with a bigger turbo,,,good luck.... ;D
Just to clarify Noel the above is a GT series Garrett turbo - the "T25" mentioned is just the flange type that it comes with (AFAIK all the internal wastegate GT28xx turbos have the T25 type flange, otherwise you need to option T3, or V-Band type of housing and then specify internal or external wastegate)
I take your point though - with your turbo the spool up and mid range must be awesome ;D but obviously puts some "strain" on traction (at least you're only towing a Mk1 around - not a fat old Mk3 :laugh:) Which is what made me seriously consider the .86 turbine housing so it spools a fraction slower and more progressively - but I'm still favouring the .64 housing with maybe some sort of rpm or gear related boost control.
Problem's arise with drivability when the turbo spools later IMO.
The later the turbo spools generally means that the boost will come on more aggressively than a smaller turbo.
So with the larger car ( Mk3), then that may work against you.
We have all seen the dynos, where a big turbo is fitted to a small engine,spool up generally occurs later in the rev range, with a greater amount of power coming on quickly, really good fun , but not good for performance.
I would be fitting a GT2871 turbo to your engine and a ATB diff. also place car on diet ;D
is there $$$ for a LSD in the budget?
Quote from: NasTnaS on February 17, 2009, 10:12:48 PM
is there $$$ for a LSD in the budget?
Sure is Nige, we have one already.
What ecu are yuo going to use? stand slone or factory?
Will try our best to retain factory ECU, there are quite a few companies offering software for stock ECU.
Quote from: NasTnaS on February 17, 2009, 10:12:48 PM
is there $$$ for a LSD in the budget?
OBX?
are they friction or mechanical?
Quote from: GTI's on February 18, 2009, 07:44:15 AM
OBX?
are they friction or mechanical?
whats the diffference between the 2?
one is like a clutch plate and the other has gears.
Pretty sure ours has gears
Certifier looked at the 2 door conversion today and all is good, don't think he quite undersood why ;D but seemed to like it all the same ;D
Was concerned about factory seatbelt mounts but after explaining what we did he just said yep thats cool. Also helps us in the fact that car will have rollcage tied to the sides that were welded on.
Doesn't need to see it again untill painted and partialy assembled.
;D wohooo, thats a great feeling that aye! Goood one! :D
Update on the turbo as well - i called a few of the Garrett resellers in Auckland and was pretty unimpressed as I got the feeling most switched off as soon as I said "VW", treated me as if I was another dreamer (not that I really blame them as I bet they get a lot of time wasters and dreamers) or they tried to sell me something I didn't want.
Finally I came across Turbochargers NZ http://www.turbochargersnz.com/ (http://www.turbochargersnz.com/) and had a long chat with a guy there called Craig. He was excellent and well worth talking to - which was a really good experience. He was very knowledgeable with what appeared to be a good mix of theoretical and real world experience. He asked a bunch of questions about the 1.8T engine, the car it was in, type of usage and our expectations - he punching a bunch numbers of into some sort of application that (based on a few assumptions) was plotting everything out on the various compressor maps.
The key points I got from him was that the GT2871R of the above spec (the biggest of the 2871s) was a fraction small for our 400HP target - he advised a GT2876R would be more suitable - but would hit full boost 500-1000rpm later. His comment would be we probably could get to 400HP with the "71" but this would be at 26-27psi of boost which was over driving it a bit - which in turn would lead to reduced life span of the turbo.
His pick was about 360-370 HP @ 21psi which would be a more comfortable level for the 2871. He confirmed he wouldn't bother with the .86AR exhaust housing so at least that ruled one variable that out. The reduced life span isn't such a big issue for us with this type of car as even if the turbo lasted 30,000 kms that'll easily be 5+ years of motoring.
So after a further discussion with John we're prepared to drop a few HP off the top end for the quicker spool and therefore will order the 2871 from them - the only problem is they are out of stock in Australasia so will have to be ordered in. Phew, decision made - hope all my turbo ramblings haven't bored everyone too much :D
do these turbos have any literature or manuals that they are shipped with? if possible pls post some isentropic graphs....
Have you guys explored how difficult it would be to fit, and more importantly to control, a turbo with variable inlet stator vanes? Variable inlet geometry might allow a larger compressor through increasing the useful operating RPM range. Just a thought.
Might be a bit of a fiddle to do but then, this is the ?ber-project car...
Quote from: typ53 on February 19, 2009, 09:15:22 PM
Have you guys explored how difficult it would be to fit, and more importantly to control, a turbo with variable inlet stator vanes? Variable inlet geometry might allow a larger compressor through increasing the useful operating RPM range. Just a thought.
Might be a bit of a fiddle to do but then, this is the ?ber-project car...
cool idea for a stand alone engine management system with enough IO. just need a PWM valve with maps for the vanes and boost.
Anything above the 2871,IMO is just to big for the 1.8t, who wants an engine that spools up above 5 k revs.
Really impressive on a dyno, but in real world, just a noters turbo.
Quote from: NasTnaS on February 19, 2009, 09:02:40 PM
do these turbos have any literature or manuals that they are shipped with? if possible pls post some isentropic graphs....
Sheez Nige, isen.. what? Plain english please - I'm just a simple sales guy :laugh: The GT2871R compressor map (http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Turbochargers/GT28/GT2871R_743347_4.htm) and info is here (I'm guessing that is what you mean :laugh:).
If you want to plot everything out have a look at the turbo tech (http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_tech103.html) page.
This is what Craig was working through - he made some assumptions for things like VE for the 20v at 97% but I'm not sure what he put in for the BSFC, though I did say we'd be running on 98 octane - you'll know more about what that might work out to.
Quote from: typ53 on February 19, 2009, 09:15:22 PM
Have you guys explored how difficult it would be to fit, and more importantly to control, a turbo with variable inlet stator vanes? Variable inlet geometry might allow a larger compressor through increasing the useful operating RPM range. Just a thought.
Might be a bit of a fiddle to do but then, this is the ?ber-project car...
Interesting thought - I didn't actually consider variable vane turbo's. Having said that I'm not sure how readily available they are, or what they cost or what is required to control them. However they don't seem to appear in the after market much and is probably beyond what we were looking for (and/or our capabilities) which was more around a proven, simple and reliable solution. We also need a certain amount of commonality with the set up so we can get an "off the shelf" map for the ECU.
Quote from: qta4 on February 19, 2009, 09:33:05 PM
Anything above the 2871,IMO is just to big for the 1.8t, who wants an engine that spools up above 5 k revs.
Really impressive on a dyno, but in real world, just a noters turbo.
I tend to agree - though with something like a 2.0 20vT with decent cams I think a 3071 would be fine to drive and still make 500HP. But time will tell eh ;) :laugh:
Been doing a bit of reading on the OBX LSD we are using, seems there's a belleville washer kit required before we install this diff, better to find out now than later. (will get one for you too Karl ;))
The original ones are too brittle and break meaning there's no preload on the axles.
There's quite a few guys running this diff in 500-600 hp cars with no problems so with this mod it should be all good to go.
Will be interesting to see how it performs, its essentialy a copy of a simmilar diff Quaife makes.
Quote from: Filx on February 19, 2009, 08:58:26 PM
Phew, decision made - hope all my turbo ramblings haven't bored everyone too much :D
Aaaaargh - famous last words as the decision is now "un-made" :-[
Basically we talked it over some more and have to admit after careful consideration of Noel's turbo comment (plus not wanting too much hassle from his little tin can Mk1 :P) we've decided to go for something bigger :laugh: (Hey, we're from Auckland and being stuck in traffic all the time means it doesn't really matter when the turbo spools up ;D). Sooooooooo GT2876R is on the way...........................
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.turbobygarrett.com%2Fturbobygarrett%2Fimages%2Fcatalog%2FTurbochargers%2Fgt28_images%2FGT2876R_705330_1_part1.gif&hash=d82f899d5403f35d805632a12b83f33a9adaeb1b)
(Please note this decision is also partially influenced by the fact we can't get a 2871 for up to 4 months due to back order) ;)
I hope you guys welded those two cars together really well, i just had a vision of an engine and gearbox flying down the road with the rest of the car standing still ;D
Just make sure you have the revs up before you drop the clutch ;)
Don't go too big. Not an identical comparative but I was running a huge cam in the Anglia, and which came on came about 4500 rpm (max rpm is 7000) and it was incredibly frustrating. You want the power curve to match where you're driving is. I'd say you want a car which leans towards Targa suitability rather than track.
Quote from: qta4 on February 20, 2009, 07:34:16 PM
I hope you guys welded those two cars together really well, i just had a vision of an engine and gearbox flying down the road with the rest of the car standing still ;D
Funny you should mention that as I had simmilar visions but my welding is just dandy Noel :P
This is going to be VERY interesting and can't wait to get to the go-fast part of the build.
Did a little work on the car this afternoon, was bit like christmas ripping boxes of new stuff open ;D
How cool is that, working with brand new stuff! :o
Interesting choice of turbo John, you are obviously a little scared of how my car will go with 18-20lbs of boost ;D
With a turbo , the size of a decent s**t from a friendly elephant, one can get both good hp and good torque, with the use of an intake restrictor, speeds up the air.
I was reading today about rally cross cars in europe, along with 2 litres of capacity and forged internals, also Sadev gearboxes, they get 530 hp and 850 Nm torque with 1100lbs weight.
They also go from start to 100klms/hr in 2.2 secs,,,,really serious grunt.
Oh and i must mention, they are also 4 wheel drive ;D
I have to say that Phil has done all the legwork and research to do with the choice of Turbo and obviously it was a joint desicion but at the end of the day we won't know untill its on the road but i'm pretty confident we made the right choice.
Its sooooo exiting to be at this stage of the project where new parts come into play! ;D
With the 2871R being 4-5 months away ( after all who wants to wait that long ;D says mr impatient ;D) it was pretty easy to decide to go bigger and realisticly we were not really going to get to our goal HP reliably with the 2871R.
The guy we are dealing with has been super helpfull and he always preferred the 2876R for what we are trying to achieve, he did say that eventhough its a bigger turbo it will start to produce boost at near the same rpm as the 2871 but makes full boost 500 or so rpm later which could end up giving us a more linear powerband.
And yes there is no doubt that your car goes uber well and also has plenty left in it so yes we are keeping this in mind! ;D
Just think whats possible with that R32 engine, yum yum ;D
Believe me john, i am not trying to pour cold water on your project, just about excited as you are.
Really looking forward to this .
It will be so cool. Hope you got big balls ;D
Big balls?? not as big as I'll need for the planned R32! but I should put this aside for now...................
Its just so damn tempting to start on it, after all its just sitting there... :'(
Quote from: vert1 on February 20, 2009, 09:23:52 PM
Big balls?? not as big as I'll need for the planned R32! but I should put this aside for now...................
Its just so damn tempting to start on it, after all its just sitting there... :'(
Trust me BIG BALLS will be required if this car goes anything decent, and knowing you, it will go very well ;D ;D ;D
Thanks Noel, it will be interesting still lots to learn.
BIG BALLS for BIG TURBO!!! :D
Have you got the pistons yet John and what compression are they?
Will run stock pistons as they are supposedly good for 700hp, will have to look at lowering CR with new gasket.
It really seems that the only weak link is those rods.
My biggest fear is the poor gearbox, same problem as the earlier boxes with the rivets coming out. Can't seem to find too much more info on what else fails.
Not sure the pistons will do that!
I can show you some i rooted with a stock AGU motor.
Quote from: vert1 on February 20, 2009, 09:48:23 PM
Will run stock pistons as they are supposedly good for 700hp, will have to look at lowering CR with new gasket.
It really seems that the only weak link is those rods.
My biggest fear is the poor gearbox, same problem as the earlier boxes with the rivets coming out. Can't seem to find too much more info on what else fails.
If you are after plus 400hp, i would be lowering compression by new pistons, there are plenty available in the states, i know you have SCAT rods which will do the job well.
The gearbox rivets issue will be overcome when you fit the new diff as you have to drill lout those rivets to fit the diff, i used ARP bolt kit for VW.
The rest of the gearbox integrity is actually up to the driver, without going to the Quaife box like i did, but even with my box kit i am limited to 400ft lbs.
Seriously after that a Sabev box is the way to go.
http://www.swrmotorsport.com/main/6_speed_sequential.htm
Thanks boys - I'll do some more research on pistons. Most of what I've read seems to say they'll be fine for the power we're aiming for and as they come free with the engine it would be nice to retain them.
Noel, those Sabev boxes look pretty funky - a bit out of our price range I'm afraid though. :(
Got a bit more done on the car today - mainly finishing off the roll cage. We spent a lot of time playing around with side intrusion bar angles and in the end settled on what you see in the below pic. Probably a bit lower angle than the serious guys would like - but a bit more practical to get in and out of. There is side intrusion bars in the doors as well of course so she should be pretty sturdy if she gets a smack in the side. The regulations mainly talk about design of the side bars rather than heights so hopefully it's all legal :D
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We used the Recaro seat out of my old wagon to help us work everything out but the actual race seat will sit a bit lower. The bars are weld in as various people advised to do - rather than the bolt in style we had originally thought we would be doing. So thanks for the input - it really helps!
We also did the cross brace the harness will be attached to - sorry for the crap picture
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Also the rear suspension is all done except for some steel brake hoses that are still on their way. It was a huge buzz to see the wheels on the car (even if only on the back :laugh:)
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New bearing, Eurospec rotors and Mk4 GTI calipers hiding under there :-*
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Ahhh - time to cross some stuff off the list - that is an awesome feeling.
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Quote from: GTI's on February 20, 2009, 10:02:11 PM
Not sure the pistons will do that!
I can show you some i rooted with a stock AGU motor.
yours melted cause you didn't have fueling to match your boost ;) You gotta keep em from going lean
Check this out John
http://audiforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94165
Also a great read, by those who have done it.
Wow, great read indeed.
More to consider........................
Thanks Noel. I did some more research. Seems the general opinion is the big compressor housing on the 2876 means by the time it starts pushing any air the smaller exhaust housing becomes a restriction - basically a bit of mismatch. Interesting. Decision un-made again :-[ - I said it was a learning experience :laugh:
When one does this sort of stuff, one needs to do it once only, sorry to point that out but i dont want you guys to make any mistakes.
With the 2871, it is capable of delivering 380whp, now that is a HUGE amount of grunt, for 2wd.
Couldn't agree more and advice is always welcomed, we are however seriously looking at the 3071 now :o
These chaps got 600 out of an AGU, :o :police:
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg107.imagevenue.com%2Floc256%2Fth_36908_1.jpg&hash=ad5d4d2a6577cb5255c867765e212baeb5161109) (http://img107.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc256&image=36908_1.jpg)
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2555241
Holy Seat!
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3897618
This will be John and filx when they get car going.
http://www.kewego.com/video/iLyROoaftMjK.html
except the footage has been speed up! Lots!
Quote from: GTI's on February 23, 2009, 10:51:06 AM
These chaps got 600 out of an AGU, :o :police:
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg107.imagevenue.com%2Floc256%2Fth_36908_1.jpg&hash=ad5d4d2a6577cb5255c867765e212baeb5161109) (http://img107.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc256&image=36908_1.jpg)
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2555241
That was the Aussie one right?
I did look at this when Karl sent it through, very cool.
Quote from: qta4 on February 23, 2009, 01:19:02 PM
This will be John and filx when they get car going.
http://www.kewego.com/video/iLyROoaftMjK.html
Hahaaaaa, I think this is more like us
Quote from Vortex:
IMO, the 3071R is the perfect turbo for a street car, i used to have a gt28rs and this is much more driveable as the instant torque doesnt vaporize ;D your tires.
Maybe we should have the GT28, quite like the idea of vaporising the tires ;D
Quote from: vert1 on February 23, 2009, 03:15:11 PM
Hahaaaaa, I think this is more like us
Quote from Vortex:
IMO, the 3071R is the perfect turbo for a street car, i used to have a gt28rs and this is much more driveable as the instant torque doesnt vaporize ;D your tires.
Maybe we should have the GT28, quite like the idea of vaporising the tires ;D
And with 400+ hp, you are not going to vaporise tyres, YEAH right
coz everyone needs a 400+ Hp street car :o :police:
Just ordered a couple of sets of these upgraded bolt/washer combo's for the OBX diffs from Rich at http://rbryant.freeshell.org/obx_washers (http://rbryant.freeshell.org/obx_washers) Very helpful guy - got back to my email within a few hours and confirmed shipping to NZ was no problem. Apparently I'm his first ever order from little old NZ. :laugh:
Been working on the turbo thing more this week - I've learned a lot more about Garrett manufacture, supply and distribution time frames. Basically unless you;re lucky and something you want is in stock here in NZ (or Aus) already - then lead times can be up to 4 months. So got Craig at Turbochargers NZ back on the case and he is going to try and source something for us. We'll see how he goes. :)
The certifier dropped in today to give me the cert plate for the Jetta so I had a chat to him about my plans to make ball joint extenders for the Vento, after a brief explanation on what I want to do as far as re-locating the lower ball joints to correct the control arm angles he's pretty happy where I'm heading.
The only requirement is to have the arms tig welded so here comes the excuse I need to go and buy a tig welder ;D
There are no extenders made for VR6 ball joints due to their tapered design so I'm going to fabricate something myself, besides I didn't really fancy paying USD 260 a pair anyway.
A bit more homework is needed but I think what I have in mind will work out.
Ball joint extenders, getting serious , aren't we John
Yup ;D
Have also found out that the R32 uprights (which are extended over stock) will fit my Jetta thus correcting the control arm angles on that, another job "to do"
For anyone interested check out this thread. Note stock pistons - 1.8Ts are built pretty tough except for the rods.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4263092&page=1 (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4263092&page=1)
Really impressive figures , but at 130hp at 4k5 revs, does not impress me at all, that is less than std 1.8t.
From 5k to 6.6k revs, that is tyre vaporising power ;D
Did you see the videos of this car?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqRadA4tBu8&feature=channel
Quote from: qta4 on February 27, 2009, 09:28:56 PM
Really impressive figures , but at 130hp at 4k5 revs, does not impress me at all, that is less than std 1.8t.
From 5k to 6.6k revs, that is tyre vaporising power ;D
I hear what you're sayin' Noel :) I posted that link more to show how far you can take these engines on minor (internal) modifications.
A 130hp pulling a light car like Mk1 or Mk2 Golf would actually go OK - that's a shade more at the wheels than any original GTI would put down. 8)
Quote from: GTI's on February 27, 2009, 09:35:50 PM
Did you see the videos of this car?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqRadA4tBu8&feature=channel
Lolz - a hint of the tyre frying! :o ;D
New poly bushes and other new bits are now done :)
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K-frame installed for a quick look with the wheels on 8)
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Looking very sharp. Love the wheels
That is looking choice!! Well done so far guys 8)
It was an "interesting" morning, my overzealous use of the rattle gun tore the head off one of the subframe to body bolts lodging it firmly in place with no head! >:(
No option but to drill it out >:( all this kind of crap just eats time but we got there in the end, will look at dropping the rear beam out next week to install bushes and finish brake lines.
Quote from: Filx on February 28, 2009, 09:06:51 PM
New poly bushes and other new bits are now done :)
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Look at the lower A arms, they look level here, but with engine and box in car these arms will be way out at proper ride height
that is really looking the business!!
well done fellas
:)
This must be very close to finished ride height surely, i expect John to be using 17 wheels
Yes thats right Noel, don't really want it any lower. Coilovers are wound all the way down right now to get a feel for what it will look like.
Been doing a bit of planning around ball joint extenders / coming up with different ideas, will modify steering arms to rose joints so that these can be re-located to reduce bump steer.
Drop pins/ball joint extenders go hand in hand with steering arm angles, they (lower arms & steering arms) need to be as close to the same angle as possible to maintain correct geometry and reduce bump steer.
Will be a fun challenge I think.
Just checking John, i know you will produce an amazing finished product
I have to admit I'm pretty damn stoked with how its looking :P
Did you also change the steering arm angles on your car when you put the drop pins in?
There seems to be a bit of controversy about this, some say its a waste of time doing drop pins and leaving the steering arms alone and ofcourse others say the opposite.
Seems to me its best to try and replicate factory geometry as close as poss ???
I don't believe NZ certifier will allow you to use rose-joints? I had a problem with this on the Anglia but I can't remember which part of the car now. You're best to double to check on this.
What brand are your 'cup' wheels, and how heavy are they?
Nice project by the way!
They have a Lenso cap on them, pretty light for what they are.
Ah OK, I have a set of those Lensos (17") as well. I also have a set branded 'RBC VAG Tuning' which may be slightly ligher, but it is a kind of a heavy design I guess.
Look good on the Mk3 / Vento: correct period for the car.
im loving this car!! cant wait to see it in person!!
Will you make the front seats flip forward so people can get in the back ;D
No back seat so outta luck!! ;D
What rate springs are you planning to use ,front and rear John?
The Bilstein set up is actually for a VR6 but not sure on spring rates - will check the spec sheet over the weekend if we've still got the box :D. The PSS kit is non adjustable (aside from ride height obviously) and was left over from the wagon build. Had I known it would end up under something like the Vento I would have got PSS9s which have all the adjustable valving stuff. We don't think a 1.8T with all the turbo, interooler, etc would weigh that much less than VR6 so we're kind of expecting it will be ok :-\
Still, these should do road/drag duties quite well - not sure on stiffness for track (might be a bit soft) but we'll probably run a big rear sway bar (when we track one down) to help give roll stiffness over spring/damper stiffness. That's the theory anyway :laugh:
Quote from: SimonS2 on March 02, 2009, 09:10:55 AM
Ah OK, I have a set of those Lensos (17") as well. I also have a set branded 'RBC VAG Tuning' which may be slightly ligher, but it is a kind of a heavy design I guess.
Look good on the Mk3 / Vento: correct period for the car.
Thanks Simon - they look great on your S2! :) These ones aren't all that light (I'll try and weigh them over the weekend). I actually have a vague recollection of some other brand stamped on the back of them? I'll check as well over the weekend. We got a great deal on some practically new OZ's a few months back (17x7) that are noticeably lighter than these - the idea is to use those for track with appropriate tyres when the time comes.
Old Noel and his spring rates again ::)
Do they have that stuff on the side of the box you get your springs in? If so maybe I could tell you my spring rates? ;D
Damn now you have me interested ....its a disease.
Hhahaaa - it's absolutely a disease :laugh:
With Bilstein they don't print it on the box - you get a whole little booklet that includes a bunch of interesting info, copies of the TUV Certificates to prove their quality, etc. >:D Just looking a construction of them and how it all fits together they are much nicer than the KW's I used in my car for instance.
I know its bad to post pics but this could be a little bit more inspiration.. plus I dont know where to put it.
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This has been around for a while, nice car but don't like rear side windows. ;)
Nothing too exciting from Sat - John and I spent an hour or so discussing ideas and updating the plan, as well as on the phone to a few parts suppliers. Made some good progress on that front with a few new bits already ordered and well down the track on other stuff. Finding a turbo is tuning out to be a headache - but we'll get there on that as well I'm sure.
In the mean time a few minor bits turned up - the below bolts and washers from Rich Bryant in the US for the OBX diff. Top bloke too - very helpful and ultra prompt. Highly recommended - I was he did more stuff for VW's as he was great to deal with.
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After dropping the rear beam out I charged on cleaning up the rear wheel arches while John cleaned up the beam and the fuel tank. John then installed the Mk4 GTI pump in the tank and we popped the tank back in the car.
I got the new fuel pump off a friend of mine during the week - we chose the Bosch over the Walbro because it is supposed to be a bit quieter.
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John mounted it up with some VW aircooled coil clamps and some some funky rubber mounts as well so it'll be interesting to see how intrusive it is. The fuel lines aren't quite finished as we need a few extra fittings.
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My research says that the stock fuel system is good for around 400hp at the wheels with a decent inline pump added. In which case thi should supply more fuel than we need at the moment. Should we lean on the engine a bit harder at a later date an external surge tank set up might be required.
Bit more progress,
Rear wheel arches are seam sealed and undercoated, rear nolathane beam bushes installed along with the SS braided brake hoses that arrived yesterday.
This meant that the rear beam could go back into the car for good, next item on the list was the 044 fuel pump we fitted in the weekend.
Using a stock MK3 fuel filter new lines were made to suit the new pump and installed, other than wiring both the stock pump and 044 pump together the whole rear of the car is pretty much done.
With the fuel pumps I'm going to relay the 044 one just to be on the safe side, the stock one should be relayed already.
Andy from RaceFX came to look at the cage today for homologation and its all good to go, no changes or mods needed! ;D
We can now get on with welding the roof back on and painting the interior, then its wiring, pedals, dash etc >:D
Why are you running stock pump as well as an 044 Bosch pump, as the Bosch pump can supply enough fuel for over 700Hp?
Using the stock pump as a lift pump and also eliminates the need for a surge tank.
Many shiny parts ordered and paid for, the project account is now EMPTY ;D
The coming months are going to be VERY exiting >:D
I figured that John, but if the lift pump cannot handle the flow, then that pump will be under constant vacuum.is that a good thing?
The lift pump won't be any good supplying fuel at 45 odd PSI, its a different story when you take the pressure requirement out of the equation- then the stock pump delivers plenty of volume i.e the stock pump just delivers the fuel needed to the 044- the 044 then pressurises the system with pressure and volume required, std return line goes back into the in tank pump/anti surge.
This system is supposedly good for 400/450 WHP so thats where its all heading for us, by the way we settled on a GT3071R ;D ;D ;D
So the fuel pump, when applied with a vacuum, will supply enough gas for your project, thats cool john, but i just had to ask the question.. ;D
Seems to be the fuel solution everyone recommends/runs in the States for up to 400(ish)whp (Walbro 255 or Bosch 044 inline pump with stock lines and FPR). I guess we'll find out if it does he job in time :)
Well it won't be a vacuum so much, the stock pump delivers the needed volume at next to no pressure to the filter, then the 044 takes over running the engine.
400/450WHP is totally at the limit of stock fuel lines, fuel rail, intake manifold so I can't see us going beyond this- for monster power I'll build the R32 ;D
Interseting,thanks for the info.'
I have never considered the fuel fow through oem pipes could limit flow, but i guess that at some level that would happen.
So what do they recommend going to re fuel lines ,size wise.?
Where is Noel getting this Vacuum from ??? Is this "stock pump an intank or a external? Do the ventos not have an in tank lifter pump anyway?
Fuel line size would be bigger Noel ;) Maybe the next size up that's available ;D
Fuel flow is hugely dependent on line size, not sure what they reccommend going to- to be honest I haven't looked that far.
With waterblasters at work its the same thing, If you put 80-100M of 3/8" hose on you can see as much as a 500psi pressure drop at the end of the line on a 3000psi machine.
Go up to 1/2" hose size there's no/very little pressure drop over the same length.
Quote from: BB on March 13, 2009, 09:35:09 PM
Where is Noel getting this Vacuum from ??? Is this "stock pump an intank or a external? Do the ventos not have an in tank lifter pump anyway?
Fuel line size would be bigger Noel ;) Maybe the next size up that's available ;D
Its the stock MK4 GTI intank pump which we are using Jem ;)
I get it now, that is a good lifter pump ;)
Quote from: BB on March 13, 2009, 09:35:09 PM
Where is Noel getting this Vacuum from ??? Is this "stock pump an intank or a external? Do the ventos not have an in tank lifter pump anyway?
Fuel line size would be bigger Noel ;) Maybe the next size up that's available ;D
Simple really Jeremy, if you have a pump that can supply, say 5 litres per minute,fed into a fuel pump that can supply 25 litres per minute, then the first pump must be under vacuum, mostly because the second pump will SUCK to much. ;D
Quote from: vert1 on March 13, 2009, 09:38:15 PM
Fuel flow is hugely dependent on line size, not sure what they reccommend going to- to be honest I haven't looked that far.
With waterblasters at work its the same thing, If you put 80-100M of 3/8" hose on you can see as much as a 500psi pressure drop at the end of the line on a 3000psi machine.
Go up to 1/2" hose size there's no/very little pressure drop over the same length.
that can all be calculated with the "Bernoulli equation" i think. 6 months ago i could work it out lol 5 minutes with my text book and i could tell you again (maybe ???) - isnt engineering fun... :-\
http://www.pipeflowcalculations.com/
Is this what you meant
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/pber.html
But when the second pump isn't flowing more and is pushing against a pressure, then the 1st pump simply has to supply the 2nd pump and it can easily do that.
If it was all pouring out an unrestricted end it would make a vacuum as you say but this system wont. Cause they don't.
You may well be right here Jeremy, but i dont think so.
If for any reason this doesn't work we'll add a surge tank with the stock pump feeding the surge tank and the 044 drawing from that to pressurise the rail. This is just a much simpler solution that our research indicates works for our goal power. I'm a firm believer in keeping it as simple as possible.
Noel - I think the next size fuel line up is 8AN, some people go 10AN with 1200cc injectors if you're chasing really obscene numbers.
No it won't, the second pump is supplying fuel under pressure which greatly reduces volume it can pump and exess fuel is being returned.
Lifter pump will pump way more volume at no/little pressure than at 45psi.
At the end of the day this is what everybody is doing/using so I'm sure we are on the right track.
Thats cool, good conversation on a quiet Friday night...... ;D
Thats whats so great about this, everybody has their opinion/input.
On another note I welded the roof back on this arvo, with our donor sunroof section coming from a Golf you may remember the Golf roof was longer so we cut it shorter at the back to fit the Vento, I put a step in the metal so that one overlaps the other and not wanting to distort the crap out of it by welding that joint I just used a 2 pot panel bonding adhesive.
Its incredible the products out there these days (its even NASCAR approved LOL), with this stuff dry now you would completely distroy the roof getting this joint apart! ;D
welded down each side of the roof and along the top of the windscreen to finish, roof on for good! ;D
I'm right :) Because loads of VWs have a small lifter pump and a much bigger pressure pump and there's no vacuum. Or why would they bother doing the second pump at all?
You are correct tho Noel :) makes for good conversation.
I was only so sure about what I thought because vert1 was doing it and says this is the standard.
lol, there's no point in doing the calcs for this other than for a learning experience... if you want to do it, its the bernoulli equation, but remember the losses in the system due to the pipe bends...
there was a good system i recommended in noels MK1 write up... its good for over 400bhp i think and uses a surge tank.
Quote from: BB on March 14, 2009, 10:06:33 AM
I was only so sure about what I thought because vert1 was doing it and says this is the standard.
You are a classic Jeremy ;D
Thanks Noel :) even I get a kick out of what I say cause I never really know what's gona come out next :P
Went to see the boyz just now and got to breath in some evil vapours from the paint John was using to spot prime all his weld spots.
I would like to see him use a fan or a painting mask tho or I will start calling him sacrificial John! ;D
I guess I feel it worse than some tho with a dodgy liver.
Car looks great tho and I'm sure it will suddenly all come together once the body is finished.
John is very very thorough with his work and makes sure everything is done to a tee, So I enjoyed showing him all my rough as guts cable tied horrors in my car :laugh: :laugh:
All cool tho until I try to make some spacers for my ball joints eh John >:D
Thanks for the bits.
Didn't you like that 2 pot paint Jem?
Something that smells that strong oughta be some good crap! ;D
Body all seamsealed, weld etch primed and interior sanded. Will probably paint whole interior one night during the week weather permitting.
What a day yesterday - John put in some great work during the week to finish the fuel system, gravel stop the wheel arches, seem sealing, brake lines, etc. He also got the roof on as mentioned. Then on to sanding the interior - sanding, sanding and more sanding. Seems endless when you're doing it but there's no avoiding it so just a matter of cracking on.
Good to see Jem also when he dropped by to pick up some parts which gave me some relief from sanding as we gas bagged about his car. :D
Here's a few more gratuitous pics
Fuel lines done
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Somehow seems more complete knowing the roof is on for good.
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As Filx said on Saturday we just sanded and sanded, but as always there's an upside to sanding- just means its paint time soon ;D
With all the prep done Saturday it just needed a little masking and a good going over with prepsol.
This afternoon being quite sunny I thought I'd shoot a couple of coats of paint over everything, chose a colour at the painters and he made it up for me- nice shiny 2 pack.
What a mission crawling around the jungle jim trying to hit everything and staying away from wet paint at the same time. ;D
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Its nice having the interior all one colour, covers a multitude of sins ;)
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Did the inside of the bootlid the same colour also, will probably do the roof this colour too, nice battleship grey.
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Have you retired from your usual job John, because everytime i log on to Vask, you report another job well done in Henderson Valley Road
good choice of colour, almost the same as the hull of my boat :D
looks awesome!!
Quote from: qta4 on March 16, 2009, 07:12:45 PM
Have you retired from your usual job John, because everytime i log on to Vask, you report another job well done in Henderson Valley Road
The benefits of being self employed Noel, try to fit car stuff in wherever I can-much like you! ;D
Whats planned for the weekend John, i am not working tomoro at the shop so can spend lots of time in the shed.
I really need to get my intercooler sorted soon.
Surely an intercooler can't be hard to find??
Have you tried some of the jappa race shops?
Well, huge day planned tomorow- You will be surprised I think If all goes to plan ;)
OUR PARTS HAVE BEEN SHIPPED!!!! Turbo plus other goodies on the way (on the slow boat but at least its happening) ;D ;D ;D
Next weekend will drag engine out of storage and begin stripdown, will look at fitting the diff to the gearbox soon.
Brendon is looking at intercoolers for me, hard to shop for that stuff from down here.
You must be looking forward to opening the parcel soon, i hope you got ARP bolts for the diff as well, i am sure you would have.
I had never pulled a gearbox apart before, and learned a huge amount during the process.
Measuring and setting the preload was interesting.
Are you using that engine that gave you a hard time or do you have another engine?
Will use right bolts for diff as the rivets will be drilled out.
I have a few engines but Filx and I bought a whole car before this project began so pretty much everything used comes out of that car,
always better to have ECU, keys etc matching- or at least it makes it easier.
Big port or small port?
There must be a very good reason why Audi went small port with these engines, even the 225 hp engines are small port, something to do with fuel atomisation and air speed i believe.
In these engines that are big port, like mine, No1 cylinder gets starved on the std east west manifold, much better with a hybrid large flow manifold that are available from the States.
I am stiill learning how these engines operate at optimum.
Our one is an 99 AGU- small port.
The manifold we bought is a cast iron Kinetic with the T3 flange, quite a nice piece of kit really.
We are also getting an 02 pipe, this places the exhaust flange back in the stock factory location so that aftermarket downpipes (like OBX that we stock) to be used so no custom fabbing required.
The only thing is that our supplier CTS Turbo isn't sure if it fits RHD cars so he is graciously sending us one to try and at the same time confirm if suitable for RHD, pretty cool guy really- so big ups to Clay at CTS! ;D
It was the inlet manifold that i was refering to John, i have little doubt about your evhaust setup,turbo etc , sound really goooooood.
I just have to get my intercooler sorted before next track day, everyone is increasing the stakes ;D >:D
Ahhh ok, with the turbo and manifold we chose there should be plenty more left to go if we decide to upgrade intake side of things and also fuelling to be able to turn the wick up more.
Yes the stakes are being raised, gooooood fun- look at all the track cars being built ;D
Brendons car is going to be really quick, got me a bit worried ;D
One of the really f%ckin' cool things about the Vento is the many little improvements over the wagon build. With that experience plus some good early planning and John's intimate knowledge of the various water cooled models have meant loads of progress has been made quickly.
There's so many little adjustments and changes I can't really list them all and the problem is they almost disappear into insignificance when judged against the whole - however each of those changes (along with working with a RHD drive loom) is what contributes to the effectiveness and speed of the progress. Anyway, enough of my bollox and chit chat here's the update - I've probably missed a bunch of stuff but bear with me.
The wiring install begins, using the RHD loom is much faster and everything pretty much fits into stock locations.
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Here's the loom installed in the rain tray with the ECU mounted as well. This one of areas where a lot of lessons learned from my car were implemented. The second one is always easier as well and having pre fitted the MK4 cable tray everything has its place and clips in nicely.
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A few more engine bay wiring pics. Temp sensor and Mk4 wiring duct on passenger side of the rain tray.
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Close up of the Mk4 wiring duct and wiring on the drivers side of the wngine bay.
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Engine bay shots showing Mk4 wiring duct, wiring and battery wiring mounted on the inner wing.
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This is the MK3/4 hybrid airbox, John used the MK3 blower motor and airbox with the MK4 control flaps and heater core. Only minor modification needed to clip these two halves together. With box installed in car only one of the heater cables needed to be lengthened to suit. The good thing here is the foam on the flaps isn't dead and all the cables for the controls (etc) are pretty much a direct fit.
You'll also the standard MK3 pedal box used with some un-needed bits cut off - no DBW pedal required for this car - much easier than the wagon. At the same time John re-made the steering coupling as this had a tight spot that he wasn't happy with, as it turns out it was just a bit out of true but enough to bind. Ducts to put in and its time for the dash to go in.
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Steering column test fit, reach and height adjustment clears everything. Ducts and vents line up much better so should all work well.
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Dashboard in place and bolted in, gauges installed, centre console in place, etc
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As we won't be running a full centre console here's the bottom vent blocked off and the lighter plug mounted in a fabricated bracket.
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A couple of final tasks for the day
High stop light, ex Mk4 Golf.
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Battery mounted in the boot. We'll get a proper closed cell battery - but this will allow us to do the wiring and other electrical testing.
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We ran the battery cable forward to an isolation switch mounted behind the hand brake. At this stage though we ran out of cable (doh!) (Apologies for the blurry pic)
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We also started on the steering wheel project after bidding on a nice 2nd hand Nardi wheel. Unfortunately we couldn't pick it up today so I'll update this mini project later on.
Working on the assumption that a boss kit for a Mk4 would be nearly impossible to find (who would swap out an airbag wheel in NZ?) and also needing the airbag slip ring for the horn to work it was time to get creative.
John hacked the original wheel apart as indicated below with the white lines. Peeled the left over rubber off and was left with a nasty bit of alloy (sort of indicated by the red circle - I forgot to take a pic of it)
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Into the lathe it went for a clean up
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To finish up looking like this
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More to come next week as discussed - the idea is to machine the existing boss on the wheel to then attach the above modified Mk4 piece. That should mean a straight fit and a working horn.
You Guys ROCK
This sort of thread is getting to the stage where it could almost switch to the TV and public access cable show, I'd love to see some of the discussions where you cone up with some of the ideas like the steering wheel boss.
Another idea would be to set up a grand stand in the workshop, like when Chip Foose does and Overhaulin at the Sema show, then instead of us all turning up and disturbing you and John we can just sit and watch the creating develop.
Very impressed with the projects and the write-ups are on the money for info, pics and overviews of the project.......Looking forward to next weeks installment
Quote from: SOFTLAD on March 21, 2009, 11:29:12 PM
Another idea would be to set up a grand stand in the workshop, like when Chip Foose does and Overhaulin at the Sema show, then instead of us all turning up and disturbing you and John we can just sit and watch the creating develop.
Ha, what a fantastic idea!
HELL YEA!!! that would be a awesome idea
Hahhaa - thanks guys, very flattering idea. Maybe install an IP camera or two and have a live feed for the next project? ;) Only problem is you'd all be laughing at how many ideas get mooted (usually they start with something like, "Hey, what if we.............?") before crashing in a ball of fire with ensuing cursing and/or general hilarity depending on how left field the concept was to start with :laugh: Or it'd just be incredibly tedious - like a day watching me sanding! :o :D
Out of interest:will a mk4 steering column fit in there?
A mate of mine did a similar (mini-) project with his M5: he retro-fitted a later wheel into his '90 M5 and the easiest and quickest route turned out to be a steering column retro-fit.
The Mk4 colum is not a direct fit, the reason it works here is that we are using a Mk4 dash support bar with it.
Saying that it could be made to work with a MK3 dash also, just needs modifying.
Quote from: Filx on March 22, 2009, 06:48:28 PM
Or it'd just be incredibly tedious - like a day watching me sanding! :o :D
For those days, turn the IP off and use one of these (http://www.theflip.com/products_flip_ultra.shtml) at beginning and end. ;)
Quote from: vert1 on March 20, 2009, 09:05:55 PM
Our one is an 99 AGU- small port.
The manifold we bought is a cast iron Kinetic with the T3 flange, quite a nice piece of kit really.
We are also getting an 02 pipe, this places the exhaust flange back in the stock factory location so that aftermarket downpipes (like OBX that we stock) to be used so no custom fabbing required.
The only thing is that our supplier CTS Turbo isn't sure if it fits RHD cars so he is graciously sending us one to try and at the same time confirm if suitable for RHD, pretty cool guy really- so big ups to Clay at CTS! ;D
Thanks John, here's a picture, it may resemble something you should be receiving pretty soon 8)
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project looks awesome by the way ;D
That may require some panelbeating about the rain tray on a mk3.
DAYYYYUUUUMMMM look at that! ;D
If that doesn't fit a big hammer will be used but its going in thats for sure ;D
Seriously though if the 02 pipe doesn't fit RHD I will be modifying it so that it does and sending it back to Clay for him to copy.
Mmmm, sexy!
Thanks for your support of our project Clay!
That looks freakin awesome
WICKED!!
That'll get it going :D
Nice build John!!!!...
Nice to see you on here Clay.... and nice parts... i may need to order some for myself soon!!
Cheers guys
Damian
Quote from: Clay @ CTS Turbo on March 23, 2009, 03:25:57 PM
Thanks John, here's a picture, it may resemble something you should be receiving pretty soon 8)
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project looks awesome by the way ;D
Is this exactly what you are getting John, because if it is , then your brake booster might be in the way.
I hope it fits, you could always fit an internal pedal box
that is static art
Quote from: qta4 on March 24, 2009, 06:53:46 PM
Is this exactly what you are getting John, because if it is , then your brake booster might be in the way.
I hope it fits, you could always fit an internal pedal box
Correct Noel - that is what we're getting. We will test fit the pipe to check issues with RHD cars for Clay from CTS in a Mk4 and the Mk3 Golf. If it doesn't fit our aim to confirm what needs to be done so CTS can make and offer a RHD specific pipe with their kits (if Clay wants to pursue that of course). Hopefully he will as that can only will be of benefit for all of us VW enthusiasts that are interested in pushing on with the venerable 1.8T in NZ. :)
hey any chance of sponsorship ?? ie huge pasenger ride for umm a batery for the car??
Hi Phil, it may fit better if turbo was reversed, in a RHD car the booster will always be an issue, even if is close, it may be just too close.
If reversed however, there is lots of room,also puts exhaust more central, only issue is intake to turbo, you may not want intake on drivers side.
But ,,what a monster, looking forward to seeing this project flying.
Quote from: andyball1 on March 24, 2009, 08:41:26 PM
hey any chance of sponsorship ?? ie huge pasenger ride for umm a batery for the car??
Im sure there is a couple of square inches near the rear of the car for a logo andyball >:D
twas what i was thinking :p
Thats a great idea to reverse the turbo Noel, had thought along similar lines myself, when I looked at the picture and then went and looked at the engine bay I thought- hmm master cylinder!
Don't think booster will be an issue but master cyl will be.
Unfortunately we can't really do much until the parts get here, I will also look at modding the pipe to suit but at the end of the day there will be a solution to the problem, I just want to make the best decision I can for us and also from a marketability point of view.
Quote from: andyball1 on March 24, 2009, 08:41:26 PM
hey any chance of sponsorship ?? ie huge pasenger ride for umm a batery for the car??
We need a drycell battery, what can you offer/options?
Quote from: Clay @ CTS Turbo on March 23, 2009, 03:25:57 PM
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The turbo body should be above rocker cover,making a reverse installation possible, problems happen with waste gate and exhaust manifold,,,,mmm. would be interesting to see it reality
Will be interesting won't it ;)
Somehow I think we'll figure it out, just wish parts would hurry up and get here ;D
How long until this bloke jewelery arrives John?
Thats a very painfull question to ask Noel :'(
As of right now most of it should be at our shipper in the US, probably won't see it for another 4-6 weeks :'( :'(.
I hear what you're saying about rotating the turbo 180 deg. And the housings may clear the rocker cover - something we should definitely experiment with as well. If it doesn't the question then for me is would there be enough market to develop a RHD specific cast manifold at a semi reasonable price? :-\
Ultimately we're aiming to find a solution based on proven, currently available parts - which mainly come out of the USA where their volume is enough to keep prices reasonable. The CTS T3 manifold (even with our crap exchange rate) is still cheaper than making a decent custom tubular manifold here in NZ. And one of our objectives with this build is that if someone comes along and thinks, "I'd like to do that to my car" they can pick all the same off shelf parts and achieve the same results.
Having said that the inlet isn't such a big issue for us in that we can either relocate the MAF to the drivers side, or choose a MAF'less ECU tune. For someone looking to build up a Mk4 to this spec relocating the MAF and inlet pipe is a bit more of a pain. So ultimately we're aiming to come up with a simple solution based on refining (if required) that CTS exhaust outlet pipe as it's only changing one (relatively) simple part of the equation.
I think your possible problem is easily fixed, to make a monster of this car, just make,or get made, another exhaust manifold more suitable for RHD.
I am very keen to see this car fly,and im sure this car will fly.
I am also really looking forward to seeing who has the balls to drive this monster. >:D >:D >:D
Quote from: qta4 on March 25, 2009, 07:10:03 PM
I think your possible problem is easily fixed, to make a monster of this car, just make,or get made, another exhaust manifold more suitable for RHD.
I am very keen to see this car fly,and im sure this car will fly.
I am also really looking forward to seeing who has the balls to drive this monster. >:D >:D >:D
Im sure John and Phil are keen to drive it Noel, but Im prepared to step forward if they dont want to drive it ;)
Quote from: Golfboy666GTI on March 25, 2009, 07:18:00 PM
Im sure John and Phil are keen to drive it Noel, but Im prepared to step forward if they dont want to drive it ;)
After 2 years i have not got the balls to drive my car as
fast as it can go yet, and with more boost, i might have to grow some bigger balls, or let someone else drive
Quote from: vert1 on March 24, 2009, 09:08:25 PM
We need a drycell battery, what can you offer/options?
Use the Jetta battery!
Quote from: qta4 on March 25, 2009, 07:24:37 PM
After 2 years i have not got the balls to drive my car as fast as it can go yet, and with more boost, i might have to grow some bigger balls, or let someone else drive
Ill drive yours as well if you like Noel? ;)
Quote from: qta4 on March 25, 2009, 07:24:37 PM
After 2 years i have not got the balls to drive my car as fast as it can go yet, and with more boost, i might have to grow some bigger balls, or let someone else drive
resounding cries of "pick me, pick me!" reverberate around the interwebnet :D
you beat me steve lol
I would really like you to drive it Nik, next track day would be good, i need some feedback as to what it can do
We will be driving it alright, how well/badly is the question.
Very little track experience so watch out! >:D
Getting any car set up for track use takes time too, will be a lot better once VASK can book Hampton Downs then I won't have any excuses ;D
More often than not Taupo ends up in the "I'm too lazy to go that far" bucket.
Who knows Nik, you might just have to show us what it can do ;)
I will put my hand up for a drive too if it comes to that :)
Come on guys if you want to know what the thing can do a lap of Taupo in you'll be needing me to drive it ;)
Quote from: BB on March 26, 2009, 11:00:57 AM
Come on guys if you want to know what the thing can do a lap of Taupo in you'll be needing me to drive it ;)
We dont want it to spin on the first lap ;)
Quote from: HaNs on March 26, 2009, 01:54:14 PM
We dont want it to spin on the first lap ;)
Or the familiarization lap for that matter.
Quote from: BB on March 26, 2009, 11:00:57 AM
Come on guys if you want to know what the thing can do a lap of Taupo in you'll be needing me to drive it ;)
I will take you for a ride Jem, but as for driving,
Ah no >:D
Errr, mmm ok lads - back on topic a bit eh :D
No work on the car today but we managed to sneak in a bit yesterday evening. As the guy selling the steering wheel from TM ended up being a twat and "couldn't find it" ::) we had to research some other options. In the end the good guys at Concorde Trading did us a bit of a deal on a new MOMO wheel. As we expected a boss kit for a Mk4 was non existent - so we got them to send us the cheapest, slow moving item they had - which they were happy to do! So here is the conclusion to the steering wheel mini project 8)
Donor boss kit - spline is significantly smaller than a the Mk4 Golf one shown in the machined piece from the donor OEM wheel.
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Lets get the sucker drilled out - into the lathe with it!
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New 30mm hole to fit the oem steering wheel nut through. John also machined the inside of the raised lip (not shown in this pic) so it was a nice tight fit for the OEM Mk4 piece that was made last week.
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What i like about working out John's shop is not everything is about hi-tech gadgets - old school tools and know how never go out of fashion.
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That circular modified Mk4 piece was then tapped into the modified boss kit...... which I forgot to take a picture of :(
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But you can sort of see it here on the drill press getting the holes drilled for the counter sunk bolts that bolt them together
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Then into the mill to machine out clearance for the plastic ABS slip ring plug
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Lets see if it fits - perfect! Just need to snip off the plug that normally connects to the Mk4 horn button and wire it on to the MOMO horn button
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Wheel = done! :)
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If you guys keep that wood trim ::)
That fits like a bought one guys, very cool. A lot to be said about 'old school'.
There's not school like the old school :)
Came to the important bit before colourisation can take place, block sanding ;D
Been many years since I did/painted my last car but it all came back to me pretty quickly :P
Fun filled day standing in puddles of water blocking the bodywork with 600 grit paper.
Phil wet sanded the door jambs and sills by hand while I block sanded the quarters, well worth all the effort put in as the car came out nice and straight, crisp lines should show a nice result when painted.
Still a bit of masking to do Monday and it should be off to the painter monday or tuesday for him to paint the shell.
Next week we'll sand the rear bumper, doors, bootlid & hinges so that he can do these next.
Its all pretty boring work sanding all day but it will have ahuge payoff once the paint is on. >:D
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Scored an 02J gearbox during the week, this is what NOT to do with a front drive gearbox- one wheel burnout = gearbox go BOOM!
The young fellow must have gotten a big fright, oh s**t what was that ;D
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Diff blown to smitherines
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All teeth stipped of this gear >:D
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Will get hole welded up and rebuild this box with our OBX LSD, this way we'll have a spare gearbox for our beast to rip apart, which I'm sure we'll need. ;D
Been looking forward to the update ;D
Can't wait to see the shell with it's new paint, the workshop will become an operating theatre then, lots of magnetic guard covers to protect the new paint, and parked in a cordened off area of the workshop :police:
May I offer some advice on making this thread even better.......
If other VW's that will be of interest are captured in photo's can we have some clarification as to whose and what it is??
What are the details on the mk1 golf caught in shot, can't tell you what colour i think it is as I have no idea as I'm colour blind...my guess would be metallic brown or bronze, whose is it, does it warrent a spin off thread with a bit of info and some pictures.
You can't just capture a snip-it of a nice looking car and expect us to forget it ;D ;D
MK1 belongs to a member here, would like to wind everyone up and tell you I'm putting a 1.8T in it ;D.................... but nothing that exiting unfortunately.
Just replaced the valve guide seals and getting the fuel & temp gauges working again, VERY tidy car -its a credit to prvious owners, a real piece of history...........
Quote from: SOFTLAD on April 04, 2009, 06:25:10 PM
Been looking forward to the update ;D
Can't wait to see the shell with it's new paint, the workshop will become an operating theatre then, lots of magnetic guard covers to protect the new paint, and parked in a cordened off area of the workshop :police:
May I offer some advice on making this thread even better.......
If other VW's that will be of interest are captured in photo's can we have some clarification as to whose and what it is??
What are the details on the mk1 golf caught in shot, can't tell you what colour i think it is as I have no idea as I'm colour blind...my guess would be metallic brown or bronze, whose is it, does it warrent a spin off thread with a bit of info and some pictures.
You can't just capture a snip-it of a nice looking car and expect us to forget it ;D ;D
The Mk1 GTI was ours, we sold it to Filx a number of years ago, he then on sold it to Spooln (the current owner).
It is a very nice car. Colour wise its very rare, its a Porsche colour. We also know the 2 owners before we got it.
Oh, and the cars name is Maddie ;)
Quote from: Golfboy666GTI on April 04, 2009, 06:49:29 PM
Oh, and the cars name is Maddie ;)
As in Madison, Madeleine or just "mad as hell"??
Quote from: Pristle on April 05, 2009, 02:58:33 AM
As in Madison, Madeleine or just "mad as hell"??
Madeleine, that was the owners young daughters name before we got it, it had a P/Plate "Maddie" on it as well. She had left a cute A4 note on the back seat of the car, something about look after it and dont race it or something . . .
That explains the condition then, teenage daughter rather than teenage son...
Quote from: spooln on April 05, 2009, 09:13:56 AM
That explains the condition then, teenage daughter rather than teenage son...
She was younger than that, say about 7 years old?
Car booked in at the painters for next week, he got a bit busy to do it this week being a short one and all.
Anyhow next week should see some colour on the shell and doors with the rear bumper and bootlid next on the list, will have to get our A into G and get these sanded before next week :o
More sanding today, inside and outside of the doors are done, bootlid is done as are the boot hinges.
We de-textured the top of the rear bumper for that facelift look, painter
had primed it during the week so sanded that with 180 grit also, now ready for a re prime.
All looking positive for tuesday, will be AWESOME! ;D
Im loving this - what an awesome build, thread and project.
Good on ya Phil and John.
Be great to see it finished and on the road in the near future!
Any sign of the bloke jewellery , yet John?
No, still many weeks away. :'(
Engine is on stand ready to come apart, figured there is not much point pulling motor down until parts are here.
Gearbox case being welded so will be able to start assembling that next week, cheers for the manual by the way.
Car is at painter, will be painted tomorow or friday at the latest.
Looking forward to that, will be cool to start putting it back together.
Little bit of a spanner in the worx regarding the side windows, MANZ states only MR10 to be used for race car with WOF problem is that MR10 can't be bent to shape with heat therefore urethane can't be used to bond window in :'(
Going to have to look at a seal of some kind, like MK2 Golf or even AC beetle etc.
If you signwrite the Vento, to take advantage of the current tax laws,with all the costs of building this promotional vehicle, then just fit a hard metal panel and paint it, no one will notice the difference.... >:D
Will be signwritten with Dubshack so once painted we can play around with different themes.
Paint, shiny new paint - sooooooooooooooooo lush. After all the prep with endless sanding followed by more sanding we rolled the car around to the painter last Tuesday and Mike @ Diamond Refinishers got started. There's something really amazing about blowing a coat of colour a few microns thick over an old car. In a matter of minutes it goes from junk to jewellery - the satisfaction is amazing.
Basically the back bumper, boot lid, doors and body have been done. The front guards and bumper will be left to last as we don't want to work with delicate painted parts while we're fiddling around fitting the radiator, intercooler and piping (etc).
A few pics! :D
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wow!! that is looking wicked!! sooo nice and shiny...
Looks like it has just come of the production line.
A lick of paint makes ALL the difference....
:)
looks wicked! i remember the feeling. ;D old vw's appreciate the love & deserve it.
Looking good, needs an thick orange stripe along the upper tide line, maybe some orange wheels, kind of like the theme of an RS 911 ;)
Hmmm, orange Cup1's not a bad idea will have to photoshop that and see.
white is an awesome colour for cars.....
Damnn i wish i stuck around and went with u to have alook c at the car!.......NICE!!!! ;D
Hey guys havn't been following this for long but have had a good read through what u've done so far and looks excellent!!
can't wait to see the end result what a great project it sounds like ur learning heaps and having loads of fun. not to mention the satisfaction of seeing and driving the end product.
Garats on the work, brilliant
Can't beat a quality 2 pack paint job. He does good work that guy.
Did you guys mold a lip spoiler on the boot lid?? (I might have missed a couple of pages of this thread...) That looks really neat guys. Wish my car looked that good :P
Quote from: 5-pot on April 20, 2009, 05:55:41 PM
Did you guys mold a lip spoiler on the boot lid?? (I might have missed a couple of pages of this thread...) That looks really neat guys. Wish my car looked that good :P
Stock Vento bootlid ;)
Yep all stock - one of the really nice things about Vento bootlids. Of course that photo just catches it nicely with the interplay of light and shadow on the shiny white paint. Just a small example of my mad pic taking skilz yo! :laugh:
Quote from: Filx on April 20, 2009, 06:45:31 PM
Yep all stock - one of the really nice things about Vento bootlids. Of course that photo just catches it nicely with the interplay of light and shadow on the shiny white paint. Just a small example of my mad pic taking skilz yo! :laugh:
A E46 M3 rear spoiler would look cool on the boot as well ;)
Quote from: Golfboy666GTI on April 20, 2009, 07:37:42 PM
A E46 M3 rear spoiler would look cool on the boot as well ;)
Thats right add more weight would be a great idea >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
Quote from: qta4 on April 20, 2009, 07:42:58 PM
Thats right add more weight would be a great idea >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
Downforce Noel ;)
Quote from: Golfboy666GTI on April 20, 2009, 07:51:38 PM
Downforce Noel ;)
And one on the front and one on the roof too.
With 400 HP this car needs as much weight as it can have, to keep it on the track.. >:D
Actually the M3 boot lid lip idea has been kicked around a bit but in the end we've decided to go for
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Nah, jokes! Clean is the way to go at this time, don't need down force for drag racing. ;)
Go on Phil, you need one on the front and the back >:D
We'll need some aero skirts as well then - been thinking maybe
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certainly fits with the woodgrain look that has been discussed on this forum before! ;D
Quote from: Filx on April 20, 2009, 08:54:35 PM
We'll need some aero skirts as well then - been thinking maybe
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With so much rear downforce , the front will lift off the ground like a kite ;D
Getting scared yet Noel?? >:D
No John , not at all, just hurry up and get this thing going
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is all it needs, oh and a little time. :P
Saw it today when getting a part off John, very clean and white. I like white, and its a good colour for that car. Well done.
Quote from: BB on April 21, 2009, 09:44:29 PM
Saw it today when getting a part off John, very clean and white. I like white, and its a good colour for that car. Well done.
[/quote
Were you out spying Jem
Quote from: qta4 on April 20, 2009, 09:21:04 PM
With so much rear downforce , the front will lift off the ground like a kite ;D
Or else a really good splitter to help deal with it... :P
Tomorow is the day!
Fitting shiny painted parts, just aswell things have been busy this week as temptation would hev been to great to resist to start bolting stuff on this week ;D
Hoping to get the rear of the car all bolted up and also hang both doors/assemble them without chipping any paint :P
Quote from: vert1 on April 24, 2009, 08:30:30 PM
Tomorow is the day!
Fitting shiny painted parts, just aswell things have been busy this week as temptation would hev been to great to resist to start bolting stuff on this week ;D
Hoping to get the rear of the car all bolted up and also hang both doors/assemble them without chipping any paint :P
I am suprised you lasted this long ;D
So am I, VERY surprised! ;D
Saturday was a great day, started well with Andyball dropping off our new Optima dry cell which fits the MK4 battery tray like a glove.
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Had a go at fitting the doors earlier in the morning, interesting exersize balancing a freshly painted door on the trolley jack while trying to put the bolts in the hinges, but all ends well with no damage to our fresh alpinweiss paint ;D
Once both doors were on I spent quite a bit of time setting the gaps and putting the doors back together, pics are not that good but it was a pretty crap day weather wise so a good time to be working indoors.
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QTA4 came up to have a look see and along with GTIVR6 gave me a hand fitting the bootlid, tailights etc after we had a leisurely lunch at the local cafe ;D
All the wiring for the rear of the car is done so with the bumper & bootlid on the back of the car is more or less done.
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Starting to look like a bought one.
Seeing the car in white, the C-pillars look perfect.
you can take the handle off the battery aswell it makes it look abit better and tidyer lol
Quote from: Pristle on April 26, 2009, 12:59:08 PM
Starting to look like a bought one.
Seeing the car in white, the C-pillars look perfect.
Pretty happy Steve, just have to get some windows made now.
;D EffING Great guys! .......Standing ovation from me!!!!!! :-*
love the overall look of this
OMG is that a Hyundai? Hahahahaa... looks good John.
Thats looking awesome guys !! 8) 8)
Me likey the white !
looking good guys :)
it looks VERY good so far. all i can say is, when do we get more pictures?
Soon ;)
Quote from: phil on May 01, 2009, 09:10:11 AM
Soon ;)
it looks good, but I just can't get exited about white cars, too appliance like
maybe I've spent too long behind the wheel of a white council fleet car (Hyundai, Daewoo, Kia etc), the company car now is a metallic gray Fiat Grande Punto diesel
Quote from: phil on May 01, 2009, 09:10:11 AM
Soon ;)
aha, do i get the hint that you have been round there with your digital slr ;D ;)
Coming over tomorow to pick up his car ;)
What have you got lined up for tomorow John, its another 3 weeks before the jewelery arrives.
I think you could be twiddling your thumbs whilst you wait. ;D
Install glass, roof rails, sunroof, paint side trim, modify/paint door handles, finish single wiper, finish wiring, finish doors, roll cage padding, rebuild two gearboxes, strip engine plus many more unfinished things ;D Bored I won't be Noel :laugh:
Quote from: vert1 on May 01, 2009, 08:56:11 PM
Install glass, roof rails, sunroof, paint side trim, modify/paint door handles, finish single wiper, finish wiring, finish doors, roll cage padding, rebuild two gearboxes, strip engine plus many more unfinished things ;D Bored I won't be Noel :laugh:
ok, so you wont be bored for a day.... what about the rest of the time? ;D
LOL, good point Nige!
Those bolt kits John.
http://www.autotech.com/prod_drive_wavetracDiffs.htm
http://www.apexr1.com/arpdibokitfo.html
http://www.aptuning.com/products.php?productid=1801
Hope this helps
Sweet, will get onto it this weekend Noel - Thanks.
Arp is the way to go here John, i also think there is a NZ agent
http://www.nzperformance.co.nz/store/arp-fasteners/cat_83.html
These guys would be able to help, just quote P/no
More progress today, another crappy weather day so perfect to be in the shop building cars.
During the week my glass guy came out to install the front and rear screen, proved interesting as all the old moldings were shot.
Luckily he had replacement moldings that were close enough but unfortunately the rear glass had to come out again for them to be installed.
Fixed the puncture on one of the rear wheels so the Cup1's are back where they belong.
I modified the Vento roof rails as these didn't fit the 2 door body anymore, couldn't use the Golf ones as the roof is longer on a Golf so there was no other option really.
Sunroof unit went in, literaly had 1mm clearance to get it in. I knew it would be a tight fit but didn't realise it would be that close.
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I enjoy doing wiring when all goes to plan but sometimes it can be a pain as I found out this morning with the licence lights not working, had power at the front of the car but not at the back.
All of a sudden it hit me, I thought you MUNTER the test light should be on the - side of the battery! ;D Simple mistake = time wasted as the whole problem was 2 blown bulbs ;D
Got on with mounting the sunroof switch, had nowhere to mount the interior light so that went in the bin.
With a simple bracket the sunroof switch sits between the roof and rollcage, perfect place really.
The sunroof drain hoses were a real pain to fit, I should have done these before the dash went in as they were nearly impossible to get to.
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Finished off the single wiper also, the wiper arm that came with the kit was rubbish so I binned that one and modified a MK3 one, just needed to be somewhat shorter and works great now.
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Its really starting to come together, lots of little bits & pieces done today.
Its allways the little things that take the time with these builds, really pleasing to see it progress towards getting an engine ;D
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Stunning job John, i had to laugh the other day when someone here said that white wasnt a good colour.
well i think that white is brilliant, espescially with colour coded bumpers.
Are you going to fit a head lining ?
Yep, love the white - exellent for signwriting. Dubshack logo has navy blue in it so will look cool on white background.
The black accents such as roof rails etc work well on the white.
No headlining or interior plastics, makes hiding the wiring in the pillars interesting but its working well so far.
clean euro look to the max
It looks mint guys good effort, real top quality workmanship :)
You know what they say Chris, do it right first time
Quote from: vert1 on May 02, 2009, 10:42:20 PM
You know what they say Chris, do it right first time.
Exactly ;) ;D
Its about time one of the VASK cars was submitted to GOLF+ magazine or one of the other like RetroCar this would be an ideal candidate and thats just the UK mags the US mags wold likely be interested in something as good as this 8) 8)
The cups really complement the shape of that car.
Quote from: SOFTLAD on May 02, 2009, 11:46:43 PM
Its about time one of the VASK cars was submitted to GOLF+ magazine or one of the other like RetroCar this would be an ideal candidate and thats just the UK mags the US mags wold likely be interested in something as good as this 8) 8)
Thats what i have been thinking over the last few days. This project would make the cover IMO
Quote from: SOFTLAD on May 02, 2009, 11:46:43 PM
Its about time one of the VASK cars was submitted to GOLF+ magazine or one of the other like RetroCar this would be an ideal candidate and thats just the UK mags the US mags wold likely be interested in something as good as this 8) 8)
Are you offering to do that Softlad? ;)
looks slick
Quote from: vert1 on May 03, 2009, 10:51:39 AM
Are you offering to do that Softlad? ;)
If we can pool all the best photos, I don't mind submitting it.
Personally I think we should push for a NZ feature edition with the Track cars, the mk3 vr6 wagon and then Robs car that has transformed recently and now we have Lee's v8 polo I think there could be enough to get a group feature as well as the vento coupe.
Thoughs on how far we should try and go with this. Maybe a couple of good project pics from the various cars to bait the hook?
Quote from: SOFTLAD on May 04, 2009, 12:30:40 PM
If we can pool all the best photos, I don't mind submitting it.
Personally I think we should push for a NZ feature edition with the Track cars, the mk3 vr6 wagon and then Robs car that has transformed recently and now we have Lee's v8 polo I think there could be enough to get a group feature as well as the vento coupe.
Thoughs on how far we should try and go with this. Maybe a couple of good project pics from the various cars to bait the hook?
Ive been thinking about this one too mate ;D about time NZ get a feature in one of the big mags. Mostly all the feature cars are from the UK, Europe and the states.
I reckon we should email Elliot Roberts of PVW mag too. They actually had a red american feature mk3 2door vento car a couple of issues back but no where near as clean as this Dubshack beauty that John and Phil have been busy with. The one in the feature retained the black plastic arch mouldings and they had to customise the rest of it to fit down the sills. Ive got the mag at here some where in the pile, if i had a scanner i'd put some pics up.
Ive got a scanner.. ;)
Quote from: ballin on May 04, 2009, 12:49:47 PM
Ive got a scanner.. ;)
Police band or computer type ;D ;D
Quote from: SOFTLAD on May 04, 2009, 01:20:38 PM
Police band or computer type ;D ;D
he doesn't need police band, probably got a direct feed on his desk . . . :police:
Quote from: SteveC on May 04, 2009, 01:26:13 PM
he doesn't need police band, probably got a direct feed on his desk . . . :police:
Something like that.... ;) :)
Quote from: SOFTLAD on May 04, 2009, 12:30:40 PM
If we can pool all the best photos, I don't mind submitting it.
Personally I think we should push for a NZ feature edition with the Track cars, the mk3 vr6 wagon and then Robs car that has transformed recently and now we have Lee's v8 polo I think there could be enough to get a group feature as well as the vento coupe.
Thoughs on how far we should try and go with this. Maybe a couple of good project pics from the various cars to bait the hook?
Well, VASK has its own resident photographer so that shouldb't be an issue.
Maybe email them and see what they have to say before we put a whole lot of effort in with photos etc?
Quote from: vert1 on May 04, 2009, 02:28:17 PM
Well, VASK has its own resident photographer so that shouldb't be an issue.
Maybe email them and see what they have to say before we put a whole lot of effort in with photos etc?
From clean to extreme the NZ VW watercooled scene is leading the way.
That looks soooo factory! Well done guys!MINT ;)
Go fast parts due 23/5 ;D ;D
Quote from: vert1 on May 05, 2009, 06:33:52 PM
Go fast parts due 23/5 ;D ;D
So we can expect to see car going on the 25th, should be a piece of cake. :laugh:
Good to see you have a good sense of humor Noel ;D
What to do between now and then...................................soooooo long to wait.
Nothing much happened today, just a bit more wiring and sorted out the vac flap for the heater.
Starting to run out of stuff to do......
Told you that John, but just wait til the jewelery arrives..
Ill give you something to do John ;)
Exellent Chris, problem solved ;D
Score of the year for the Vento yesterday, Bargain price 02M 6 speed gearbox off trademe ;D
Other than a small hole in the case where the CV smacked it, it has nothing at all wrong with it,
These handle 500 odd HP factory std so ideal for us to push further, also being a 4wd box there's more options for later.
With the 4wd transfer case removed I'll have to machine an oil seal holder and presto it becomes a fwd box! ;D
Will most probably run the 5 speed with lsd for now to get the car going and fit the 6 speed later on as we'll need to buy another clutch etc for it.
Score alright!!
Got to be happy with that you jammy bugger (double thumbs up emoticon inserted here) :D
didn't mr vag nutter post that up in the trading post> ?
Yes I believe he did :D
Yea I did, they had the reserve at $100
good spotting...
Quote from: vert1 on May 13, 2009, 05:37:26 PM
Score of the year for the Vento yesterday, Bargain price 02M 6 speed gearbox off trademe ;D
Other than a small hole in the case where the CV smacked it, it has nothing at all wrong with it,
These handle 500 odd HP factory std so ideal for us to push further, also being a 4wd box there's more options for later.
With the 4wd transfer case removed I'll have to machine an oil seal holder and presto it becomes a fwd box! ;D
Will most probably run the 5 speed with lsd for now to get the car going and fit the 6 speed later on as we'll need to buy another clutch etc for it.
Awesome John BARGAIN! ;)
Parts arrive THIS weekend, allow few days for clearance and motor build commences! >:D
Well John the parts must have arrived by now, bloke jewelery for sure, now for an update.... ;D
ITS CHRISTMAS AGAIN!
Here's a teaser Noel ;D
Will have to make time now, work getting in the way again ;D
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So you have only opened one box John, the discipline ;D
You will now find that you will have too much work coming in now it has all arrived, something to do with murphys law.
I am interested in just how much room you will have around the brake booster/ mastercylinder area.
Opened one box? Hardly Noel, the pallets were not even off the truck and I had one box open already ;D
Will post more later ;)
Some piccys of the goodies that turned up, just wish I had more time now to start playing with the car again ;D
We had ordered a Eurospec clutch kit but after researching them more they turned out not to be that great and most people preferred Southbend kits which is what we bought in the end.
Stage 4 kit with billet steel flywheel & feramic disc, reportedly better and cheaper than a stage 4 Eurospec.
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Garret GT3071R, and yes its as big as it looks ;D
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Integrated Engineering rod set with ARP rod bolts, thought we would run these as they have a very good reputation and we are distributors for them now as well.
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Kinetic exhaust manifold with a T3 flange, nice cast iron piece. Looked at all kinds of manifolds - cast and tubular and this seems to be about the best available.
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Lastly a Kinetic exhaust pipe, this allows aftermarket downpipes like the OBX ones we have to be used.
It puts the exhaust exactly where the stock downpipe would live as our turbo sits on top of the manifold whereas the stock one is below the manifold.
Beautifully welded piece, far too nice to hide behind the engine ;D
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"We had ordered a Eurospec clutch kit but after researching them more they turned out not to be that great"
Are you sure you ordered one??? I was on the other line ordering a lot more than one clutch kit listening to you begging to get one sent out and to become a Eurospec agent. Eurospec is loyal to New Zealands agent which is Platinum VW Spares. We have sold and fitted many many clutch kits and never had an issues with any Eurospec product.
Moving right along ???
That looks great John, i still have doubts about that exhaust will fit, but im sure you have that in hand ;D
Need to see that turbo next to a KO3 to get the full picture of how BOHEMOUTH it really is ;)
Quote from: qta4 on June 03, 2009, 06:59:34 PM
Moving right along ???
That looks great John, i still have doubts about that exhaust will fit, but im sure you have that in hand ;D
We have the exact same doubts :D But time will tell.
Awesome 8)
Quote from: qta4 on June 03, 2009, 06:59:34 PM
Moving right along ???
That looks great John, i still have doubts about that exhaust will fit, but im sure you have that in hand ;D
YES, moving right along. ::)
You won't believe the welding on that pipe Noel, simply outstanding.
I'm with you though and think it will need modifying but thats why we are going through this exersise to develop something for the RHD guys.
Will start on the engine in the weekend, already got the head off a couple of weeks ago so just need to pull the pan and go..........
How big is the turbo inlet pipe, it looks about 4"?
Its about HUBBA-HUGE ;D
that stuff looks awesome... we have some PRO welders at work, theres this 1 guy, who is bald, and loooks BADASSSSS. he reckons he's beeen welding since 15.... scary dude...
but his work is amazing, he can weld in any orientation.....
lol, that was off topic... but yea John... its good opening gifts... get it going......
you will need the duck call blowoff valve... :)
Ive got these special alloy welding rods that the instructions show the guy welding a beer can up perfectly.
I just got pissed off with the stuff even tho I can gas weld well enough and have done quite a bit of it, and mountains of mig welding.
Oh yea nice big TURBO vert, rods and stuff look good.
Quote from: vert1 on June 03, 2009, 07:56:52 PM
YES, moving right along. ::)
You won't believe the welding on that pipe Noel, simply outstanding.
Today John, there are production methods of welding, with cnc equipment, looks really good.
I remember years ago looking at the welding of the first ECS Autowasher bowl at F&P, truely amazing quality welds with production welding
Noooooo there won't be any loud obnoxious blow off valve on this car although there will be plenty of other noise to contend with I'd say. ;)
Noel, the thing with that pipe is that its all hand welded in a jig which just blows me away but then if all you do is weld then you'd get pretty good at it :laugh:
I have done some really great welding,at least i thought it was, but secret is cleanliness, even your tips have to be sharpened on a sharpener that is either stainless or mild steel, never mix the sharpening tools, also a butt weld, no gap, just fuse together, but for some reason i always seem to blow a bloody hole in the work. It is just so frustrating.
I really like good workmanship
Looks awesome John... ill have a gander at the bits tmw.
Is lag going to be a factor with that thing?
From our research it shouldn't be too bad but of course the bigger you go the more lag, one reason for choosing the Garret turbo was the dual ball bearing for faster spool.
Its hard to get any concrete facts about what does what so a certain suck it and see applies here but one thing is for sure it will go like a scalded cat and should give us a good fright. :P
run some bad ass rally anti lag :D
Quote from: qta4 on June 03, 2009, 08:11:05 PM
Today John, there are production methods of welding, with cnc equipment, looks really good.
I remember years ago looking at the welding of the first ECS Autowasher bowl at F&P, truely amazing quality welds with production welding
Sorry to go off topic, but i did a lot of the proof of concept welding and sample production for the ECS bowl welding when I worked at Laser Lab. It was all laser welded, no filler rod required. Very cool.
Quote from: vert1 on June 03, 2009, 09:49:23 PM
From our research it shouldn't be too bad but of course the bigger you go the more lag, one reason for choosing the Garret turbo was the dual ball bearing for faster spool.
Its hard to get any concrete facts about what does what so a certain suck it and see applies here but one thing is for sure it will go like a scalded cat and should give us a good fright. :P
minimising friction through good bearings is great, but inertia is inertia and driveability could be an issue around town
Depending on the day i can sometimes nail a Fuse tig weld really well.. other days it looks like birdcrap..
I think vert is after a fright not driveability, he has plenty of cars that do that.
Back into it today after the arrival of the parts. I hadn't had a chance to eyeball them as yet so it was very fun to get my grubby mitts on the new stuff. :laugh:
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I thought the obligatory turbo comparison pic would provide some entertainment - I still can't believe how small the KO3s are - makes the 3071 look huge - when it's really only a medium size turbo.
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Anyway the goal John had set for today was to tear the engine down and fit the rods. We had a bit of an interrupted morning as I was late to arrive and there was loads of customers coming and going - but in between times we got the engine stripped down to pretty much the short block to expose the pistons and bottom end.
Here's the engine with the head off and sump removed. A bit of carbon build up but overall pretty clean with minimal sludging
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We then carefully removed the rods and pistons and began re-assembly using the new Integrated Engineering rods. (Note for Noel - as we didn't have access to a dishwasher for "Otorohonga style" cleaning of the pistons, we had to revert to the more traditional method of a soak in the parts cleaner. :laugh: )
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Side by side shot of old rod v's IE rod. Quite a difference in design.
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A quick hone of the bores and with the pistons and rods assembled they were slipped back into place. Careful assembly was undertaken with double checking all clearances and following the instructions the ARP rod bolts were torqued to 50 ft/lbs.
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And topside shot
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We then pressed on with refitting the sump, head, water pump, cambelt, cam cover, etc to finish the day with the engine re-assembled to the below state.
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So all in all a very satisfying day - I really enjoyed it as I haven't had a lot of experience with engine assembly type stuff and learned a lot!
We might try and squeeze in a few hours during the week to get it finished off with the manifolds back on and turbo and wastegate, etc mounted. Then we can start making up the water and oil lines and get it ready to drop in in the car and see if it fits :D
No muckin about then...
Are they new pistons John, or just cleaned?
Just cleaned ;D, pretty spiffy eh!
Three main reasons for that - firstly the budget didn't really stretch to new pistons, secondly a lot of what we've read suggests stock pistons are fine for upwards of 500HP+ and thirdly (somewhat driven by points 1 and 2 above) we are keen to explore how far we can go on a basically stock internal engine. Time will tell I guess :)
Quote from: vert1 on June 06, 2009, 08:33:44 PM
Just cleaned ;D, pretty spiffy eh!
Its amazing just how well made these 150 hp engines were, just install some good rods.
Imagine anything English being made like the 1.8t.
Pretty happy so far, it all went together pretty easy and really enjoyable although as predicted work got in the way this morning :P
I will try and make a start on assembling the 5 speed gearbox this week with the LSD, have most of the new bearings and seals just waiting on a couple more parts.
Can't imagine working on anything english really Noel, owned a Rover once and that put me off for life ;D
Quote from: qta4 on June 06, 2009, 09:01:54 PM
Its amazing just how well made these 150 hp engines were, just install some good rods.
Imagine anything English being made like the 1.8t.
I struggled to think of much, Cosworth YB engines would be the only thing that comes to mind. The 1.8Ts are pretty impressive though.
Quote from: Filx on June 06, 2009, 09:41:45 PM
I struggled to think of much, Cosworth YB engines would be the only thing that comes to mind. The 1.8Ts are pretty impressive though.
But hardly made in there thousands.
Honed but no new rings?
looks good I'm assembling my 200 kg block as well and I enjoy the assembly work too.
Not really honed as such Jem, just a lick with the hone to clean up the top of the bore of carbon deposits to make it easier for piston removal and re-install.
I put in new rings as my motor had 180 thou on it but it cost me :P
It will be fun to see how good that standard stuff is ;D As Noel says they seem pretty damn good. The only thing that ever seems to happen to them is broken cambelts and that is preventable. They must be so under stressed at only 150hp standard.
Quote from: vert1 on June 07, 2009, 10:41:24 AM
Not really honed as such Jem, just a lick with the hone to clean up the top of the bore of carbon deposits to make it easier for piston removal and re-install.
And how many K's has your engine done Johm.
When i stripped my motor to fit the rods, i just cleaned and refitted.
Ron, the guy with the 86 Audi Coupe refitted the bearings after 300ks, as he couldnt measure any wear
Engine has only 77,000km on it,
Clean as a whistle inside, no oil crud buildup at all so obviously serviced regularly.
Have done the same as you, cleaned everything and re-fitted.
Even at 77k's i would sooner fit old rings than fit new rings, as long as they wernt worn.
And if they ae worn, then new pistons.
Didn't even take the rings off the pistons, ring grooves all looked pretty clean.
Minor carbon deposits on oil rings, just cleaned them.
Dishwashers work really well too, just dont do it while mum is in the room >:D
Did you use the Finish powerball? ;D
Ha Ha, no, just the smallest amount of detergent.
Quote from: vert1 on June 07, 2009, 06:35:44 PM
Did you use the Finish powerball?
No the finish powerball is for porting heads ;D
Good chance that any after market rings you get may not be as good as the origional ones.
I think it was a good thing in my motor tho, the 10v 5 pots are quite heavy oil burners.
Here is a list of bits you will need John, just in case you have forgotten something. >:D
http://unitronictr.brpmotorsport.com/en/unitronic=araclar-cupra.htm
Yeah, lots to spend still.
Really cool though! ohh to have unlimited budget!
And here we were talking about stage 2 already before its even going ;D
Pulled our bargain 6 speed apart last night to have a look inside and repair the hole in the case, I can now see why these boxes can handle 500+ hp factory.
The bearings and gears are monsters in this thing compared to an 02A/J, everything inside looks mint.
The 02M case turned out to be magnesium instead of aluminium for the 02A/J, ended up cutting a section out of an old aircooled transaxle to be able to fill the hole with as these are all magnesium also.
We'll convert it to FWD at some stage as we're just going to run the 5 speed for a start, if we break that then the 6 speed will go in.
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Completely different transmissions to the 02A/02J type . These transmissions have a third shaft, clever way of keeping same length yet increasing gear size.
Good find John
Yep, in a lot of ways its way more simple inside. Very very chunky gears and diff.
Good for lots and lots of power ;D
Notice those rwo pinions at the diff, really clever stuff
Yeah, thats the first thing I noticed.
Big difference, also 12 bolts/rivets versus 8 on the 02A/J - gives some idea how much bigger this is.
More engine stuff ticked off the list, rods are all done and engine closed up.
Our ARP headbolts didn't come with torque specs ??? and a search on the net last week didn't come up with anything usefull so I called ARP the other day to find out, head all bolted down now ready for the other new goodies.
Test fit the manifold, turbo and exhaust relocation pipe. All looks pretty cool, wether it fits in the car is another issue to be adressed later.
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Also got on with building our 5 speed box, our stub axles are the bolt in type and our LSD has clip in stubs so I ended up machining a threaded plate to go inside the LSD to be able to accept bolt in stub axles rather than mess around finding other stub axles.
No big deal in the end to make it all work but I spent ages setting the bearing pre loads as all the taper bearings were replaced along with the LSD obviously.
This gearbox had gone boom previously and distroyed the stock diff so it was a perfect candidate for a rebuild.
Hopefully it stays together this time but time will tell ;D
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Looking really good John, that turbo is the ducksguts.
Nice bit of welding to, it will be a shame to destroy that to make it all come together.
By the way, what torque settings did ARP suggest?
45 ft/lb + 90 deg turn.
Re-usable bolts these, will be good for later if we decide to put AEB head on in search of more power >:D
Seriously John, if you need more Hp than what you should get with this setup, i would make an appointment with your nearest shrink. >:D
Quote from: qta4 on June 13, 2009, 05:52:08 PM
Seriously John, if you need more Hp than what you should get with this setup, i would make an appointment with your nearest shrink. >:D
ROFLMAO ;D
400 whp just to get the bread from the local store, and maybe some beer.
I ask you. >:D
Will be pretty crazy won't it ;D
Well John, i can only reflect on what my car goes like, add another 100whp ???
And another 200 kg :P
When John gets his car Dynod at 400 whp, i am going to ask him just how much more power he needs, thats a serious amount of grunt.
Its not a question of need ;D
Come to next track day John and i will show you waht 300 whp feels like. >:D
How about a turbo this size >:D
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I wonder how often they have to refill that fire extinguisher?
John
dunno John, but I reckon the headlamps are not there for airflow purposes
Would that turbo just suck in anything that came its way? dust, dirt, birds, children?
big enough to ingest a reasonable sized mechanic, Jem, beware!
Today's aim was to get all the oil and water lines done. The sensible thing to do would be to get one of the CTS fitting kits that includes everything you need and saves a lot of time http://www.ctsturbo.com/products/1_8T_Turbo_Hardware_Kit-150-0.html (http://www.ctsturbo.com/products/1_8T_Turbo_Hardware_Kit-150-0.html)
However as our budget didn't stretch that far but time isn't such a big issue we had always intended to do the lines in house. Aside from being a bit cheaper it also suited our philosophy of re-using as much stuff as we can and that also means a more factory looking finish. So we laid into modifying the existing hard lines and fittings.
Not many great photos form that process it consisted of heaps of small fiddly jobs that take ages but don't really look like any progress - including making a fitting for the turbo oil feed line as the thread in the 3071 is a 7/16ths 24 TPI and though a friend of mine had leant me a few fittings to try they were all 7/16 20 TPI thread. So using a a donor 24 TPI brake hose fitting and the OEM banjo bolt John made up a stainless insert to join the two together allowing use of the OEM banjo, while the insert also doubling as the oil feed restrictor.
Anyway here's a few pics for your viewing pleasure :laugh:
Back of the engine showing the oil return line, bottom half is all stock, top half is cut and shut.
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Oil feed from the top
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Blurry shot of oil and water line in place. Also shows the beautiful CTS down pipe, Tial external wastegate, etc
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We've still got some work to do on the lines and buttoning up th rest of the engine hardware - but all going well we'll be trial fitting the engine in 2 weeks time. :)
You would have been dissapointed if the FACTORY supplied everything, mostly because you guys would do things much better than them, thats what i found anyway.
Yep having all the right fittings from the start would be the way to go.......but since we didn't and I'm not one to want to wait once I've started something, just improvised to get the job done NOW! ;D
Certainly killed a lot of time machining one fitting but its worked out great.
Most of the lines were re-made with same size as stock, stainless tubing I had lying around and all the banjo ends were already there so it was just time making the hard line with lots of bends and making sure all the lines clear everything.
One more coolant line to make, install flywheel & clutch, bolt on gearbox and we'll be ready for a test fit.
Another day of progress, only managed a couple of hours today but its better than nothing.
Fitted all ancillaries to the engine inc intake and new injectors, installed flywheel and clutch.
We first test fitted just the engine with one mount and balanced the rest on blocks of wood to see where it would all end up, it was pretty clear straight away that the O2 pipe would foul on the master cylinder / brake booster and looked like it would never fit RHD.
Worst part is the wastegate has quite a big dia top to it and that actually hits the booster itself, there is plenty of room behind the engine tho so that will just have to be relocated elsewhere.
Pulled the engine back out again and fitted the gearbox and all other mounts so we could try it with 2 fixed mounts to get a better idea exactly where the engine will be sitting.
Once reinstalled things were looking much better to the point that the O2 pipe may actually work with minor modification.
The turbo looks to have much more room in a MK3 bay than a MK4 one, the rain tray is nowhere near the turbo and has acres of room around it so pretty pleased with that.
If we don't end up using the O2 pipe I'll just make something that works, from what I've seen today it won't be a problem.
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Next week will see either the O2 pipe being modified or a new one made so we're actually not that far away from the engine going in for good. ;D
I cut and shut all my turbo pipes for the 5-pot im doing as well ;) Far better than buying and waiting, plus money to spend elsewhere.
Looking good vert/flix.
It was a foggy early morning drive over to the shop. After a quick discussion on what to focus on we cooked up an ambitious plan of getting the down exhaust done and radiator fitted, plus other sundry small tasks sorted out.
During the week I had ordered some wastegate flanges and U bends from Ronald at Autobend (great guys to deal with and awesome range of products http://www.autobend.co.nz/ (http://www.autobend.co.nz/)) as test fitting had confirmed that the w/g was going to foul on the brake booster. I also went in to Alltech http://www.turbo.co.nz/alltech/ (http://www.turbo.co.nz/alltech/) where Chris helped me out with some gaskets for the turbo Again I can highly recommend Chris - he was really helpful and was genuinely interested in what we were doing.
So the first step today was to get the engine mounted properly. Like my car using the Mk4 radiator meant dropping the front cross member by installing some 40mm spacers. John had these whipped up on the lathe in no time and we bunged them in (as per pic) with some hard core cap screw bolts.
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The other reason for doing this is it meant we could play around with the height of the front engine mount a bit to help us get some much needed space at the rear of the engine. We ended up with a 30mm spacer for the engine mount. Leaning the engine forward that tiny amount meant vital extra space at the rear of the engine.
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After that we grabbed the CTS downpipe and using the eyechrometer we started checking the fitment. The result was grim - the space behind the engine was OK but the pipe was going to foul badly on the brake master cylinder and reservoir (by about 15mm). So it looked like hacking up Clay's pipe was going to be the only option :'( We spent about 40 minutes looking and discussing different options, where to cut, etc and slowly it become more and more obvious that with the amount of changes that would need to be made we may as well start with a clean slate and make our own downpipe. And me being a bit of a metal geek it just didn't feel right cutting up such a work of art!
Problem was we didn't have an exhaust outlet flange and my quick ring around of the local shops proved fruitless. But at Johns shop if you don't have it, you make it! So back to the lathe for some more action :D John rummaged through the off cuts for the biggest OD off cut we could. Then set about milling it down to 11mm thick with a 60mm ID hole.
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I shot up to the good guys at Pit Stop Henderson to get a 2.5" to 3" flared pipe, some 3" straight section (both free - thanks boys!) and some standard 3 bolt flanges for the exhaust end of the down pipe.
Here's the almost finished outlet flange and gasket (just have the bolt holes to drill here). Note the step so the pipe slips in nicely and we get a smooth internal section - I thought that was a nice touch.
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Flared pipe pressed in.
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Then on to the task of making the rest of the downpipe! Because of the brake master cylinder clearance issue we needed a fairly tight bend out of the turbo. Might not be the best for flow but thems the breaks :laugh:
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Though I thought just doing this would be easier and save a lot of hassle. Not sure if it would be under 90dB though............... >:D
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Back on track a bit of fit, tack, fiddle, think, cut, grind, test fit, tack, cut etc and we got to the below layout........
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Then out for a final weld up - just needs a clean up and some HPC or Procoat and she'll be good to go.
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After the downpipe was done we slipped the engine back into the car to check everything fitted and it felt very nice to see nothing touching anything. The w/g however was waiting patiently in the background to try and rain on our parade.
It's so easy to look at something and think it'll fit but when you offer it up it just doesn't. Or it's in the way of something that needs to run through your nice piece of real estate you think you've got to play with. After further head scratching and stunningly cunning plans we settled on the passenger side of the engine just behind the head. The w/g outlet is facing the wrong way but there is simply no other option for a RHD drive car. (Unless you mounted it underneath the car somewhere)
So out with the engine and eyeing up where the w/g was going to live we went to work. A quick U turn for the exhaust gasses...
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And a bit more cutting and welding and we got the w/g in position. With the return pipe ready to join back to the main exhaust when it's in place (no screamer pipes here thank you!)
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Then back in the with engine and though it's tight everything cleared and there looks to be plenty of space for things like shifter cables and heater hoses, etc.
View from the drivers side of the bay
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View from the passenger side
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Front shot - I think it looks tough! But then I would say that :D Lolz.
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So that basically soaked up the whole day leaving the radiator and other tasks for another day. Next job is also to test fit this nto a Mk4 engine bay to see if it clears their even more restrictive brake booster set up. :-\
Looks like you guys had a very successful day, my earlier comments about my exhaust splitting John, probably wont happen here, as your bends are supported by welds, whereas mine was a long piece of pipe, mandrel bends.
Thats so cool
Nothing like an ounce of Kiwi ingenuity
Yep, awesome day- lots of progress!
Amazing what can be achieved with some time, lathe & welder ;D
Sure does make you appreciate a fully equipped shop 8)
And i thought you guys just did basic work, just replacing bits..................... >:D
Quote from: qta4 on July 04, 2009, 08:32:27 PM
And i thought you guys just did basic work, just replacing bits..................... >:D
yeah right
But, they
are just replacing bits, if you really think about it ;) ;D ::)
Tough alright ;)
POWERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
popped in to pick up some bits on tuesday, the car looks awesome!!!!!! the size of that thing in real life :o good effort
Was thinking the turbo looked kinda small once in the car ;D
Do you think this monster will run straight out of thee box vert?
How much dyno time do you think it will take?
The 1.8t has been streached to 700whp supposedly so is your 400 going to be easy?
Whats the pros and cons with water injection? Is it necessary for 700?
My engine guys build a 700hp Rayglass drag car with a sr20dt.
Our expectation is that it will run pretty much straight out of the box using the Unitronic 630cc software file from CTS. Time will tell though :D We've discussed the Torque Performance option (which has come out since the project started) but at this stage we haven't talked to them directly.
Water injection has many benefits (usually allowing significantly more ignition timing and boost) but isn't something we're looking at currently. Might be something for phase 2. :D
700+HP from 1.8Ts is becoming more common as you say. Might be something for us to aim for in a year or two. I think some form of AWD will be in the car before that happens though ;D
Interesting day yesterday on the car - a lot of little things done and a couple of dumb mistakes like dropping and scratching one of the wheels and stripping a ball joint thread (both by me unfortunately, so no one to else blame) which kind of took the gloss off what would otherwise have been a really productive days work.
However focussing on the positives the engine is now in (after being in and out many, many times in the last few weeks!) and that is a really great feeling.
One of our concerns was obviously the heat generated by the turbo/pipework and proximity to other items in the engine bay. We got some ACL heat shielding material that can withstand up to 900 deg C to help protect the brake booster and clutch master cylinder. We also robbed a Mk4 GTI aluminium shield to help protect the lines running along the firewall. Here's the end result of a few hours of fiddling around and making everything fit.
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We also heat wrapped the down pipe and wastegate pipes and mounted them up to the engine with all the gaskets - it was nice to bolt that on for the final time! (Well, final for this time anyway :D) So then it was in and out with the engine a few times to tweak the clearances to the heat shielding before bolting it in (again, hopefully for the final time for a while) and then on to fitting the front panel, radiator, etc.
Here's the engine in place and bolted down on the VF Engineering mounts. Space at the back of the engine is TIGHT but there's a few mm clearance to everything so we're pretty happy with that.
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As we have lowered the front cross member to clear the AC pump the radiator outlet was going to foul the top of it so we used a similar mod to my car with John sectioning it and welding in a piece of tube for the radiator host to run through - nice and strong and protects the bottom of the radiator. Here's a shot of the modded cross member just a needing a lick of paint.
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A wider shot with the slam panel on. Shows how big the Mk4 radiator is and what looks like plenty of room in the engine bay - but there's still a lot of things to go in there :laugh:
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We went on to install the drive shafts and a bunch of other small things, and even though things went a little pear shaped through the late afternoon with a couple of the aforementioned challenges and frustrations we battled on through to get the car back on it's wheels before calling it a day.
Here's a parting shot before flicking the lights off and heading home for the day.
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Next challenges will be to finish off the engine bay stuff and move on to mounting the intercooler and intercooler piping. I think there'll be a few days work in that alone.
Your intercooling pipes are going to be interesting, maybe an opposite inlet manifold may keep your intake pipe shorter.
If you were to take outlet from turbo to intercooler on drivers side, aka S3, you might save some effort.
Interesting thought but with the space restrictions running two pipes down one side behind the headlight could be challenging. We haven't explored it greatly as yet but the general idea is to go over the rocker cover towards the passenger side headlight, down and around to the IC at the front. We'll probably section out the bumper support panel so we can sit it in there nicely. Then out and up behind the drivers side headlight with a nice U bend into the throttle body. Sounds easy in concept! :laugh:
If we had a flipped manifold with the t/b on the passenger side a water/air could fit where the battery once lived and the pipe work would be super short and easy to do. You just have the hassle of extra water lines, pump and another radiator to fit.
You could always use an intercooler with inlet and outlet on the same side, and still use drivers side piping, just a thought .
Something has changed Noel, did you notice ;) :laugh:
Look carefully at the picture of the engine, something vital has changed! ;D
the wastegate has moved (again)... ;D
Well spotted ;D
It was suggested by our expert supplier we might experience boost creep with the wastegate far away from our exhaust manifold.
Much tighter clearance to the bonnet now but if need be we'll get the holesaw out!
Quote from: vert1 on July 19, 2009, 03:00:22 PM
Well spotted ;D
It was suggested by our expert supplier we might experience boost creep with the wastegate far away from our exhaust manifold.
Much tighter clearance to the bonnet now but if need be we'll get the holesaw out!
WRX bonnet scoop :-X
or look vented grilles, ithink this was discussed with Robh around louvres ;D
yeah, i imagine you would want to get as much air as you can past the turbo, especialy one that big!!!
Things are getting interesting, seems that Unitronic don't support a 630cc file for the older ECU's. The biggest they have is a 415cc file which will only support a max of 350whp when pushed hard which just isn't goint to do for us :laugh: The other downer is that they just don't seem to run as smooth as the newer version ME7 ecu.
The old setup runs a narrowband sensor and MAF, the 2001 and later has wideband with MAP and MAF thus a lot more tuneable.
If we go to a later ecu we can then run the larger injectors and also do away with the troublesome MAF sensor and run MAP only.
this may mean we'll have to run a dbw throttle but thats not the end of the world to install either, the quest for power continues.
why not just get a megasquirt and tune it yourself?
What about MS and you come and tune it for us? :) That stuffs beyond average people like me! :laugh:
To be fair it's more about using what's available in a simple, plug and play type manner as well as testing some of the US software in NZ conditions. I also believe that in this type of situation using the stock ECU with a reflash is more relevant to what other 1.8T owners might do with their cars.
Part of the reason for that is I really hope people might see this and think, "Those f#$*ers did it, why can't I?" :laugh: and more people start leaning on these engines a bit. With the price of post 2000 cars coming down so damn low why couldn't you have a 400HP Golf GTI, or B5/B6 Audi as a daily driver? However how many of them would be willing to change to aftermarket ECU's?
Having said that one thing we have learned in the last little while is that the earlier (AEB/AGU) cars aren't well supported with off the shelf software for big injectors in which case MS could absolutely be a great option for some people.
their is a lot to learn with ms and a have contimplated throwing it away and buying a link a couple of time but i think it will be good when it is don't will have only set my back just over a grand. i and can bin the cop and run wasted spark. and have boost control.
Quote from: Filx on July 22, 2009, 12:00:20 AM
What about MS and you come and tune it for us? :) That stuffs beyond average people like me! :laugh:
To be fair it's more about using what's available in a simple, plug and play type manner as well as testing some of the US software in NZ conditions. I also believe that in this type of situation using the stock ECU with a reflash is more relevant to what other 1.8T owners might do with their cars.
Part of the reason for that is I really hope people might see this and think, "Those f#$*ers did it, why can't I?" :laugh: and more people start leaning on these engines a bit. With the price of post 2000 cars coming down so damn low why couldn't you have a 400HP Golf GTI, or B5/B6 Audi as a daily driver? However how many of them would be willing to change to aftermarket ECU's?
Having said that one thing we have learned in the last little while is that the earlier (AEB/AGU) cars aren't well supported with off the shelf software for big injectors in which case MS could absolutely be a great option for some people.
If you guys decide to go drive by wire, there is a programme called Lemmiwinks that allows you to change timing and fueling etc, i have a copy somewhere, it is no longer available on the net.
ah, my bad, i thought that unitronic was a seperate ECU which could not do everything you need.
i reckon chipping the standard ECU is the best option if it has enough to control everything you need.
if not, go MS, and i dont mind lending a hand. ( just need some time to refresh my memory)
Spoke with Clay at CTS today, going to later ECU is a no brainer now.
Our current hardware will support 400whp no question ;D However the available software for the older ecu's wont.
So it looks like we'll be going DBW as the ME7 ECU's can support upto 1000cc injectors so there's plenty of scope for more development later on.
Funny enough the older engines like AEB and AGU are the better ones to have as these have the bigger port heads, shame the electronics are the downer to make huge power.
Just fit newer electronics to older engines, solved..........
What we're doing Noel ;D
Seems the only weak link as we all know are the rods in the early engines.
Filx put this slideshow together a while ago, really cool to look back on whats gone into this so far.
Hopefully the link works on here.
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e138/turbo_phil/Dubshack%20Project%2009/?action=view¤t=1dadfdc7.pbw
those photos are awesome! i didnt realise it started life as a 4 door!!!
great work guys, without seing those photo's you would never believe it had been converted to a coupe!
Its pretty impressive eh.
Seen a few coupe conversions on US sites, some OK, some average. Seems like this thing will have the muscle to back up the look as well.
Quote from: 5-pot on July 07, 2009, 09:38:54 AM
But, they are just replacing bits, if you really think about it ;) ;D ::)
LOL !!!! ;D ;D ;D
Awesome stuff boys.
New ME7 ECU found for USD 60 and on its way to have software upgrade done and other non needed crap removed from the program.
Yesterday saw a bunch more stuff done, got rid of the AC pump in a quest for more frontal real-estate to run intercooler & oil cooler lines.
Made a bracket to mount off the original AC pump mounts to support an alloy belt roller to take up the slack in the ACC belt.
Front panel hopefully on for the last time, made the rad hoses to length so it all clears everything.
A few more bits sanded to be primed during the week so that I can paint them at some stage.
Next its probably the exhaust to do before our other parts get here and then its into the wiring to try and make it run.......
So what software are you going to run with John, maybe DBC for a while before you sort out the DBW stuff?
No, DBW from day one. Unitronic MAF'less 630cc file with unwanted Immo, EVAP and a bunch of other stuff removed.
Have all the other stuff sorted too, all the parts we need for the upgrade.
Can't be bothered dismantling the car to add all the wiring later so will just do it now.
It will be interesting just how much faster your car is than mine, Taupo is not all that fast, maybe Hamton downs, maybe the venue ;D
I didn't take many pics this weekend - kind of wasn't one of those days. Here's the A/C pump delete bracket using a left over pulley I had from RobH. New that would come in handy :laugh:
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A bit of a diversion from the original plan to run AC but does leave a lot more room for other items - and a few bits to sell off to help with the budget. A nice little upside. :)
Quote from: qta4 on August 02, 2009, 08:00:19 PM
It will be interesting just how much faster your car is than mine, Taupo is not all that fast, maybe Hamton downs, maybe the venue ;D
I think we should be pretty closely matched speed wise, with your new found ponies we will have to up our game a little I'd say.
May need to be Hampton Downs Noel, I'm far too lazy to go all the way down to Taupo. ;D
Im most interested to weigh our car when its together, there are probably a bunch more things that we could have left off to save weight but as I've said before this car has to serve a couple of purposes and was never going to purely be a track car.
Nice work. We need to make up a jockey pulley for toms Rover like that. At the mo we were just going to use the disconnected A/C pump but I think this is a slightly rude way of doing it. Need to find a nice pulley like the Robh one ;)
Glad you didn't bother with the A/C, it wont reflect on your ability to do it anyone who knows John knows he could fit A/C if he wanted but its a racer this car (tho I just read the post re it not being a track car) and your supposed to get all hot and bothered when you drive it ;D
Quote from: BB on August 03, 2009, 08:21:52 AM
Nice work. We need to make up a jockey pulley for toms Rover like that. At the mo we were just going to use the disconnected A/C pump but I think this is a slightly rude way of doing it. Need to find a nice pulley like the Robh one ;)
Glad you didn't bother with the A/C, it wont reflect on your ability to do it anyone who knows John knows he could fit A/C if he wanted but its a racer this car (tho I just read the post re it not being a track car) and your supposed to get all hot and bothered when you drive it ;D
One step ahead of you :P already PMed John, haha. And yeah, A/C is overrated, have not used it since my first car, the Corrado didnt have it, and got used to winding down the windows.
Started on the DBW conversion today, Pulled the dash out and also tried to get the old cable throttle gas pedal out but unfortunately there's not enough room between the firewall and heaterbox to be able to remove it so we just cut it into 3 sections to be able to pull it out ;D Sure as hell not pulling the heaterbox out again with the rollcage in the way.
Made a mount for the DBW gas pedal, installed that and also made the wiring harness for it.
Started on the wiring for the engine to ECU which will be pretty easy, the other side of the ECU will require a bit more work.
Really wish I had this car at home, that way I could do a few hours per night and get the thing moving along a bit quicker.
New Garret intercooler is on its way so once that gets here we hope to have the wiring completed just leaving the IC piping to do and exhaust before it can be started...........
Painted the side trim and door handles during the week so installed those today aswell, progress looks pretty slow atm as all the big bits have been done so it seems like not much has been achieved as you can't see any big differences.
Onto the boring time consuming mind numbing stuff today ;D
Reminds me just how much I hate wiring, looking at this stuff for too long all the colours end up looking the same after a while.
Both the ECU connectors are different to their earlier cousins so that just means a little more time to get it all right.
This sort of stuff just takes many uninterupted hours of looking at wiring diagrams and doing continuity checks to make sure that all the wires go to the correct pins on the ECU plugs.
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Have i missed something here, why didnt you just use a DBW wiring loom?
Didn't have one at the time, could have gotten one but it means pulling the whole donor car apart and then also pulling the Vento apart again to install it.
Not too keen on going backwards ;D Instead I got the pieces we needed and wiring these into the existing loom.
May have been easier to do your homework better..................................... >:D
Yes yes, easy to say later eh!
Its all learning, you don't learn anything if it were easy all the time :laugh:
Just >:D trying to wind you up John ;D, its a learning process for sure.
Makes me wonder how normal people do these conversions >:D
They dont!
You need to be a little twisted to try 400 whp in a FWD car ;D
I told you its nuts to do what you are doing, but you wouldnt listen.
300 whp is just crazy, will be interesting who is going to pilot this toy >:D
I don't think so. I think removing the back 2 doors and replacing the sheetmetal is!
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh wiring!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Adding a late model engine loom and ECU to an early model body loom - is that crazy? Who does that sh1t? The stuff nightmares are made of >:D
Actually it wasn't too bad. Trying and testing, yes at times. Frustrating and confusing, absolutely. But if you take it slow with copies of both wiring diagrams, a Bentley, a circuit tester and a methodical approach - well, nothing's impossible.
So this was us halfway through - looks a nightmare but is slowly coming together
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In a nutshell we had that engine loom, ECU plug and a few other bits of wiring from the donor late Audi A3 1.8T. Then working back from the pins in the ECU plug we tracked every wire to a corresponding destination. Then on to the engine side of things we worked through and made sure we had a destination for everything plugged into the engine.
There is still a bit of work to do and a lot of tidying and taping the loom - but I think we have broken the back of it. Once this is done it'll be on to the exhaust and intercooler. Then (and I'm almost nervous to even think it) we're just waiting for the ECU and an opportunity to fire her up! 8)
Hoping to get some runs at the drags in late summer 2010 - let the madness begin :laugh:
Quite enjoyed today, turned the phone off so it couldn't interupt me while we were making progress ;D
Once you get started on this kind of thing you have to keep the train of thought going and just work through it looking at both schematics.
Hardest part is done, some stuff to link up inside the car and we can start taping it all back up again.
I guess the worst part is that it won't look any different once its done ;D
::) I look up to you guys!....
Front brakes found! ;D
312mm slotted discs with alloy 4 pot calipers, just have to see if they fit now.
If this doesn't stop us then nothing will.
Didn't do all that much today, quite busy this morning at work plus I didn't really feel like it either with such a nice day.
Anyhow pretty much all of the wiring is done for now, all wrapped up and put back in its place just waiting for an ECU to come back from the US.
Put the dash and all its bits & pieces back in so that gets more stuff off the floor ;D
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Phil picked up our new brakes on Friday, very very nice! and in like new condition.
They are 312mm discs with COX 4 piston alloy calipers, got a huge shock when I looked on their website at what they cost new! $3900 :o
Will have to make an adaptor to be able to use our SS braided hoses but that shouldn't pose any problem.
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Damn....looking good so far...yay about wires all done. :laugh:
Quote from: vert1 on September 05, 2009, 04:29:37 PM
Will have to make an adaptor to be able to use our SS braided hoses but that shouldn't pose any problem.
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With what's under the bonnet these discs will never look like that again, they might glow a lot but never unused!!!!!!!!
What did the calipers come off John?
They were off a damaged Mk4 GTI.
I believe it is the this kit here http://www.cox.co.jp/products/index.php?id=373 (http://www.cox.co.jp/products/index.php?id=373)
Hopefully I'll get some time this week to try them to see what/if needs modifying.
Brakes are done!
Past couple of nights after work got them on and finished.
Skimmed the rotors in the lathe and managed to only take 0.1/0.15mm off each face to clean them up so they are still miles within wear limits.
The calipers bolted straight on with the aid of a couple of 6mm spacers between the caliper and stub axle to center the caliper on the stub axle.
Our stainless hoses are a little shorter than the rubber MK4 ones that came with the brakes but it all fitted ok
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When turned at full lock with the car in the air the hoses would pull a little, with the car on the ground it was ok- decided I didn't like that so I made some 90 deg adaptors on the mill which solved the problem perfectly ;D
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avast me hearty nice anchors!
Fab stoppers.
Cheers guys, they fill the wheels nicely ;D
That set-up looks very nice and pretty cool to be Cox as well.
Nice rainy day yesterday meant a good day to be inside tackling the exhaust - John's least favourite task but I kind of enjoy it. Though to be fair that's probably because he does 90% of the hard work while I eye ball stuff and make sensible suggestions like, "why don't we just run a side pipe - that would save a lot of time" :D
Anyway on a more serious note during the week I had called up the boys at Autobend again (http://www.autobend.co.nz/ (http://www.autobend.co.nz/)) to get some suggestions. We discussed using 2x 3" bullets in the tunnel and as John already had 2 freeflow 3" mufflers left over from other projects we figured a combined total of 4 mufflers should do the trick. However in the end we got two small straight through mufflers to get as much noise reduction as possible and decided on using one rear muffler.
A Mk4 OBX downpipe was bolted on to the turbo dump pipe. As the OBX has the perfect fit, had all the O2 bungs, flexi and flanges, etc already in place it just made sense to use one. And it saved a lot of time. So that went in - plenty of clearance to the sway bar/subframe as you can see here. Runs pretty close to the steering boot but there's a bit of hat shielding around the rubber so it will hopefully be ok.
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Then we fitted up the two centre mufflers in the tunnel
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It's a bit hard to figure out what's happening here but basically after the tunnel the exhaust veers to the passenger side. We added a flange here for two reasons. 1, It means we can take the exhaust off as the back half can be manoeuvred over the rear beam and 2, for events that permit it (and depending how noisy it is) we'll build a little dump pipe to attach to this flange and do the aforementioned side exit in front of the passenger side rear wheel. That should be fairly free flowing >:D
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We also hung the rear muffler and started on the tricky job of getting a 3" pipe over the rear beam but ran out of time, daylight and motivation so that final piece will have to wait for Monday morning. Then it's just wire up the fuel pump and basically we don't need to revisit the underside of the car again!! Yeehaaaaaaaaa :)
I hope you fitted a second bung for the o2 sensor your dyno guy will need.
Realy easy to do before you finalise the exhaust. ;D
Dyno gut???????? whats is that? 8)
Sorry typo >:D
There are 2 sensor bungs but our late ECY requires pre and post cat sensors, surely dyno guy will just shove sensor in outlet of exhaust?
Are you running cats?
Nope, will still use both sensors but the (in factory car, post cat) will be spaced further out of the pipe to stop it throwing codes.
Does it really need 4 mufflers? Will it be whisper quiet?
The post Cat sensor is there purely to verify if cat is operating according to emmision standards, it is easy to fit a Zenor diode in the circuit to give the same results.
I think from memory the post cat sensor is looking for a .45 volt signal. others here could verify that.
By simply installing a Zenor doide in that circuit, then the second bung could easily be used for dyno man.
By the way , without that sensor, you will pull a code.
Not putting 4 in, essentially its 2 bullets and one free flow rear box.
Quote from: qta4 on September 13, 2009, 08:00:19 PM
The post Cat sensor is there purely to verify if cat is operating according to emmision standards, it is easy to fit a Zenor diode in the circuit to give the same results.
I think from memory the post cat sensor is looking for a .45 volt signal. others here could verify that.
By simply installing a Zenor doide in that circuit, then the second bung could easily be used for dyno man.
By the way , without that sensor, you will pull a code.
Yes, I was aware of pulling codes without a cat. The other way around the codes is to space the second sensor further out of the exhaust flow so that it reads a difference between the two.
If you can infact do it with a resistor then that would be the way to go.
Quote from: vert1 on September 13, 2009, 08:00:49 PM
Not putting 4 in, essentially its 2 bullets and one free flow rear box.
My car has 3 Coby mufflers , some say its too quiet, but i like quiet >:D
I'm getting old so yes, quiet is good!
Quote from: vert1 on September 13, 2009, 08:04:00 PM
Yes, I was aware of pulling codes without a cat. The other way around the codes is to space the second sensor further out of the exhaust flow so that it reads a difference between the two.
If you can infact do it with a resistor then that would be the way to go.
I will find out what value Zener diode is required, then all will be cool..................... >:D
Ok cool, another piece will fall into place :laugh:
Sweet - thanks for the tip Noel. That'll be awesome and we then have a spare bung for tuning if required.
Quote from: vert1 on September 13, 2009, 07:46:05 PM
There are 2 sensor bungs but our late ECY requires pre and post cat sensors, surely dyno guy will just shove sensor in outlet of exhaust?
Dyno guy can shove one in the outlet, but it's better to get the sensor closer to the exhaust ports if your tuning based on the sensor. Your not going to tune it though are you? You'll be using code from overseas?
No John will not be doing dyno to tune, just a good idea to make sure car is not running lean at max boost.
That is why a wide band o2 sensor in the exhaust stream is far better than one that is stuck up the exhaust.
We're aiming to use the off the shelf maps from Unitronic for 630cc injectors and MAF delete. Though technically no dyno "tuning" is needed it will certainly spend some time on the dyno for checking AF and setting the boost levels, etc.
Exhaust is done!!! Thank f%$k for that! Made a super early start on monday morning to get the last bits done that were left on saturday.
Must say I loathe welding under a car, not fun at all with blobs of hot metal raining down.
The intercooler should be pretty close now so hopefully we can crack on with that soon, later this week should see us hopefully sorting out the rear side windows.
Are you going to use an electronic boost controller, or just the N75 valve, i left N75 valve in circuit, and mounted the other one.
I also have 6 memorys , which means i can have 6 boost levels.
At the moment i have 13lbs, 18lbs and 23 lbs boost.
Will also go with electronic controller, just seems wise to do so.
A quick update from yesterday. We've had some Lexan MR10 windows made for the rear side windows. For the moment this will have to suffice until a feasible glass solution can be found. We spent an hour or two working out who to make them look as OEM as possible. In the end though we parked that for next time as there is some more investigation needed before a final solution is put in place.
We then charged on and bled up the brakes and clutch only to find a leak in the clutch line conveniently located right behind the turbo heat shielding. Chris and I were thinking we'd need to pull the motor out but somehow John managed to get a "custom" angled spanner up through the menagerie of steering rack, subframe and turbo pipe work to get the fitting a fraction tighter and bingo - problem solved! Power of persistence, great effort mate! I would have chucked in the towel and thrown all my toys and started unbolting stuff. :D
Then after getting that all sorted we ploughed on with a couple of other little bits and bobs. Fitted up the carbon bonnet using a Mk4 Golf boot stay. They are very light and we debated using two but one does the job fine and is lighter :laugh: :P Got that lined up and the latch in place and then fitted the washer bottle and water lines. So not much has changed but a few more little ticks in the boxes.
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But........I did throw all my toys, didn't you hear all the profanity! >:D
Quote from: Filx on September 27, 2009, 07:32:45 PM
A quick update from yesterday. We've had some Lexan MR10 windows made for the rear side windows. For the moment this will have to suffice until a feasible glass solution can be found. We spent an hour or two working out who to make them look as OEM as possible. In the end though we parked that for next time as there is some more investigation needed before a final solution is put in place.
How different to the 3 door golf rear glass are they? Is the original golf window slightly bigger as I have seen things that Chip Foose and West Coast have done with roof chops that the original glass has been trimmed down by a professional to suit the modified opening, is this a possibility?
They are quite different, from what i've read you can cut down a laminated screen but not tempered glass.
It seems that tempered glass holds all its pressure around the edges, once you try to cut it, it just explodes ???
There was reportedly a place in the US setting up to cut tempered glass with a laser.............
Quote from: vert1 on September 27, 2009, 08:07:08 PM
But........I did throw all my toys, didn't you hear all the profanity! >:D
Ahh its soothes me to know even a seasoned pro like you can still throw the toys ;D I threw mine last time I did a golf box swap. I thought I had them sussed but I had all sorts of stupid stuff happening. ::)
They can make you well mad sometimes the cars can.
Good to see this car moving on.
Looking good guys, ;D ;)
you all still after my Vento lights?
This is looking amazing!
More stuff to carry on with, new Kinetic intercooler arived today!
Its shape is ideal for a MK3/4 front end, quite long but not too high, will have to start looking at ali bends and pipe to start making our pipework ;D
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Been doing a crash course in tig welding 1.5mm thick aluminium yesterday (as in teaching myself! :laugh:) Not as easy as it seems, getting the machine set up right is difficult enough let alone compensating for operator error!
Anyway started to make some headway in preperation for doing the intercooler piping tomorow, at least I can tack the pipes together now so that a real pro can finish weld them.
Will see how it goes tomorow, I'm actualy quite keen to weld them myself just need a lot more practice ;D
I thimk you will find that even a pro wouldnt use a crap welder, a Miller welder with foot pedal is the way to go John, thats the reason i didnt buy an AC welder, just bought a really good Dc welder.
My mate Ron has a Miller, just let him do any alloy welding..
The machine has a lot to do with it also, don't have a foot control for a start but its something new to learn and is something I've wanted to have a go at for a while. Good thing is that it gets us going tomorow.
Its a shame we don't do much aluminium so I can't realy justify buying another welding machine........ :'(
Quote from: vert1 on October 09, 2009, 09:03:09 PM
Good thing is that it gets us going tomorow.
Really , going tomoro, does that mean you will fire it up tomoro.............. :)
Uhhhh I wish...........but no, still need ECU and oil cooler to be finished among other things.
The list of things stopping us firing it up isn't all that long any more though ;D Yeeeeehhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
cant wait ;D ;D ;D ;D
Started out today with mounting the intercooler.
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Mucked around with it sitting on a box and trial fitting the bumper a few times to figure out where it should live. Then it was a matter of cutting the bumper support. Went from this.....
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To half an hour or so later looking like this.....
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The radiator being on an angle makes it all look on the p/ss but it's actually pretty straight.
Then onto intercooler piping. We basically butchered a pre made piping kit for some Honda that John got from StreetBitz. Very cost effective way of buying the pipe, silicone joiners and clamps. Decided to start with the i/c to throttle body piping which came together quite well.
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Then onto the "hot side" and after a lot more cutting and welding we got to this tasty front view......
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We then ran out of pipe to get it all finished. Just needed one more decent length of straight pipe and we would have been there, as you can see here....
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Damn good day Phil with some real progress made, there sure wasn't much left of that bumper support panel by the time we cut most of it away ;D
If I get a chance during the week it will be off to Streetbitz again for some more pipe which should see the whole I/C finished off, also have to machine a block to house the MAP sensor to be welded onto the piping we made.
For anyone doing a custom front mount, those piping kits are an absolute bargain, lots of bends, pipe, 8 couplers and 10 clamps for around $280.
Managed to fully tig weld most of the joins but unfortunately they don't look like a row of nickles so I may get my welder pro down the road to tidy them up a bit, it would probably pass but just want them looking a bit nicer................
Not long now, looks awesome.
Are you going with front bumper or Westie style without?? ;)
I think your being silly.
When a nice toyota corrolla will get you down the shops just as well for far less cost and effort.
Quote from: BB on October 11, 2009, 09:04:00 AM
I think your being silly.
When a nice toyota corrolla will get you down the shops just as well for far less cost and effort.
but with no where near as much style lol
:-* T-A-S-T-Y :-*
looks really good, any reason why you went golf lights? i suppose the opposite of the vento!
Quote from: SOFTLAD on October 11, 2009, 12:07:58 AM
Not long now, looks awesome.
Are you going with front bumper or Westie style without?? ;)
Will be running a bumper for sure, it will require lots of cutting to fit and won't particularly look stock but thats not the idea anyway.
Quote from: ballin on October 11, 2009, 02:43:19 PM
looks really good, any reason why you went golf lights? i suppose the opposite of the vento!
The Golf lights are just there to tell us what space we had left behind the headlight for IC pipe clearance, new Vento lights / debadged grille en route to NZ! ;D
Quote from: vert1 on October 11, 2009, 02:48:07 PM
The Golf lights are just there to tell us what space we had left behind the headlight for IC pipe clearance, new Vento lights / debadged grille en route to NZ! ;D
:D haha looks like we might have the same idea going there, i got some fk ones on there way too and debadging myown grille but more in the lines of adding a honey combe 2001 polo grille to it.... ;D
Many many more ticks in the boxes, getting awfull close to startup now.......... ;D
We were let down by our software guys but have found someone else to do the map that we want, not jumping for joy just yet just in case this all turns to s**t too!
Sounds promising so far, there is no need for us to send our ecu away as we can load the modified map with the software thats being sent to us and we can make changes as needed here in NZ without sending the ecu away again.
Quite a few little projects completed since last week,
Intercooler piping all welded / completed and installed
Intake pipe made and installed
710N DV valve installed
Finished wiring the fuel pumps
Mounted the oil cooler
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The K&N filter will have a divider plate made for it to try and keep as much of the engine bay heat away from the airfilter
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The oil cooler has quite a good little pozzy behind the grille, if its not up to the job then there's plenty of real estate left for a bigger cooler.
Just holesawed a couple of big holes through the slam panel to route the hoses through, just waiting on the sandwich plate to finish the oil system off.
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Started on cutting the bumper for intercooler clearance, not that there's much left of it now ;D
Will have to do some plastic welding around the IC opening and then its pretty much ready to get painted with the front guards.
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Now this car is almost finished John,and looking really good too by the way,what are you going to do with it.
Hampton Downs will be a great venue to scare yourself silly, i would really like you to grow a pair and do some motorsport events.
Im sure Glenda wouldnt mind being a passenger. ;D
And Filx might like to give himself a fright too.
Well as I've said previously I'd be far too lazy to go all the way down to Taupo but Hampton Downs will be sooo cool once we can get on it.
Will have to look more seriously at what local events there are and ofcourse learn to drive the thing too ;D
I think starting off with low boost may be a wise thing to do!
Filx will probably have a go at some nightspeed drag racing, time will tell really.
WHAT A THREAD!!! read through the whole thing while at work, took me about 2-3 weeks but well worth it, gives me soo many ideas, but you two have the experience. very looking forward to what in store...
ITS ALIVE! ;D
Quite a few pre start checks this morning, a quick scan with Vag-com revealed the DBW pedal not working correctly so investigated that which turned out to be a wiring issue.
Questioned it at the time when we installed it as the colours were different to the book, should have believed the book! ;D Went by terminal numbers this time ignoring the colour difference and presto all working as it should!
Cranked it over to build oil pressure, primed the pumps, installed the plugs & coils and it started first time round only to be killed by the Immobiliser, won't worry about doing anything more starting wise till we get our ECU done and all should be good to go.
Also had a look at some OMP seats today, looks like they may do the job. Will look at ordering those next week.
Quote from: vert1 on October 24, 2009, 04:30:02 PM
ITS ALIVE! ;D
Quite a few pre start checks this morning, a quick scan with Vag-com revealed the DBW pedal not working correctly so investigated that which turned out to be a wiring issue.
Questioned it at the time when we installed it as the colours were different to the book, should have believed the book! ;D Went by terminal numbers this time ignoring the colour difference and presto all working as it should!
Cranked it over to build oil pressure, primed the pumps, installed the plugs & coils and it started first time round only to be killed by the Immobiliser, won't worry about doing anything more starting wise till we get our ECU done and all should be good to go.
Also had a look at some OMP seats today, looks like they may do the job. Will look at ordering those next week.
Congrats guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!got a video or something?>
Quote from: vert1 on October 24, 2009, 04:30:02 PM
ITS ALIVE! ;D
Quite a few pre start checks this morning, a quick scan with Vag-com revealed the DBW pedal not working correctly so investigated that which turned out to be a wiring issue.
Questioned it at the time when we installed it as the colours were different to the book, should have believed the book! ;D Went by terminal numbers this time ignoring the colour difference and presto all working as it should!
Cranked it over to build oil pressure, primed the pumps, installed the plugs & coils and it started first time round only to be killed by the Immobiliser, won't worry about doing anything more starting wise till we get our ECU done and all should be good to go.
Also had a look at some OMP seats today, looks like they may do the job. Will look at ordering those next week.
Sweet.
Awesome day as John said - even only hearing the engine run for a few seconds was sensational. The turbo takes about 5 seconds to wind down even after that little burst - caught me a bit by surprise actually as you can hear it quite clearly and at first I was thinking, "what the hell is that?". :laugh:
The immo issue was probably good in the end as it stopped us running it for too long which would have been a hell of a temptation. Once the ECU arrives and software is flashed on though........ look the f#ck out! :laugh:
Quote from: pommy88 on October 19, 2009, 06:37:17 PM
WHAT A THREAD!!! read through the whole thing while at work, took me about 2-3 weeks but well worth it, gives me soo many ideas, but you two have the experience. very looking forward to what in store...
Thanks Pommy - just rip into it. You only get experience one way. :)
Quote from: GolfBag on October 24, 2009, 05:02:59 PM
Congrats guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!got a video or something?>
No vids or pics from today mate - might be video material in a few weeks time though 8)
Awesome sounds great...keep it up
great work guys, it must be hugely satisfying after all that effort
Awesome, can't wait to see it in person Phil + John! ;D
well done guys
Looks awesome! Must be fun to boost! >:D
More parts aquired this week, gauges turned up as did the OMP seats and oil lines are being made tomorow- bring on the weekend for seat frame fabrication! ;D
These are the seats we went with in the end, Andy advised against heavily winged seats if we were going to use on the road rather than pure track car.
Will check with him tomorow if factory 3 point mounting can be used, he seemed to think it will be ok but wants to look at a MK3.
Started off this morning at Pick A Part to rummage for some MK2 seat bases so that we could cut the needed bits off to make our own frames, fortunately there was a MK2 there that someone had already unbolted the seats from.
Once back at work we got on with some basic mechanical work :D starting on our seat frames, we bent up some tubing much like the ones for Ty last week. I find it much easier and quicker to make something from scratch rather than modify factory ones to suit our needs.
Doing the first one took for ever :P, making little adjustments here and there to get the seating position to suit both of us, being non recliners one has to get the angle of the seat right where it will be comfortable enough.
By lunchtime saw one basic frame in the car with the seat on,
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Once back from lunch we figured that the seat was too straight and not quite lined up with the center of the steering colum so we cut the front runner off and shifted it over 20mm which solved that problem and seems to be a much better seating position now.
Got the front release handle/mechanism sorted, job done! ;D
Making the second frame didn't even take half the time of the first as all the lessons learnt from the first frame come into play, more or less just copied the drivers side frame.
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Last job for the day, took them both out again and bolted the seats on to end up with this
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My mates at Hydraulink came through for me on Thursday with some oil cooler lines so thats all done and dusted too.
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Bring on the software!!! ;D
how much would a set of seat rails set me back :p
To fit what kind of seats?
Hell yeah - great day today. I was going crazy with all John grinding and cutting equipment and making a right royal mess! Almost set myself on fire at one stage - but you know that's just how I roll! :P
Having the seats in is another one of those psychological "big steps" as you can now sit in the car and really visualise very closely wrestling the wheel as it torque steers all over the road :laugh:
Bring on the software a John said - we're going with Eurodyne in the end, a different supplier than originally intended (long story) but their philosophy on tuning is very much better for people overseas outside of the major markets like the US. Plus the main guy there Chris Tapp is really great to deal with. But more on that later as we're still working through getting everything set up and underway.
Can't wait to hit the go button though - it's getting close!!!! >:D
In the end its the people that often make you make your choice in the end.
Looks like its getting there! Wonder if it can beat Als bettle down the strip or a lap of Taupo?
hehe that was me at pick a part scavenging runner clip things.
I wondered why they were not there ;)
Is that a battery cut out switch mounted just behind/above the handbrake? What's it from boat or industrial?
that is a boat swith.
Yep battery isolation switch, got it from auto electrical outfit. Liked it better than the usual ones you can get.
Car is running with 630cc file! :-*
Wow i bet it's a crazy car to drive!
When do we see it at the drags?
Well there's days you get out of bed and go about your day and there's days you jump out of bed with a maniacal grin on your face - those days are known to car enthusiasts as "start up day"! Ahhh that magic moment that the key gets the twist and the engine bursts into life for the first time in many months!
During the week John had been working with Chris Tapp at Eurodyne to sort out the background details and Chris had also emailed through the 630cc file for our ECU. I was buzzing on the way over to the shop and got there at the crack of dawn (well, actually 8am TBH, but it felt like the crack of dawn!!) and strode in the door to find John was wearing the same kind of maniacal grin I was ;D So we flicked on some lights and got down to business.
Here's our office for the morning. That's a spare ECU bottom right - "just in case" ya know! ;)
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Fired up the Maestro software, loaded the file Chris sent and hit the "flash ECU" button.
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After sorting out some "user error" (who us? Nevah! :laugh:) with Chris' guidance via phone and email we quickly had..........
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Then the moment of truth! A few quick double checks and John hit the key. This is the result........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PS1BW6Alow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PS1BW6Alow)
We were stoked - started first pop, no drama, idles fine. Sounds a bit rattly on the video as the lifters hadn't pumped up at that stage, but that soon went away. Basically we ran it until it got warm and opened the thermostat. Shut her down and checked for leaks, topped up the fluids, etc, etc. The only thing we could spot was a very minor leak from the top oil feed on the turbo so we were over the moon at the result. We owe a ton of thanks to Chris Tapp at Eurodyne for his help - the Maestro system and his really great customer service makes life so easy and takes away a lot of headaches for people outside of a major market like the USA. We are looking forward to really digging into the power of the software for data logging or any required fine tuning.
We then got cracking on some other tasks - John fitted up the under dash panels and putting stuff back into place in the engine bay. I started making a template for the catch can. With limited space we'll fit the can in front of the engine between it and the radiator. No pics as yet but hopefully it'll get that welded up during the week and we'll get it in place next weekend.
Here's a few more pics as she stands at the moment.......
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Then back in her hole at the end of the day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w05g_GYFg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w05g_GYFg)
I'm looking forward to next Saturday already as with a bit of luck we'll be able to go out for a run! >:D
Quote from: GTI's on November 14, 2009, 11:37:41 AM
Wow i bet it's a crazy car to drive!
When do we see it at the drags?
Didn;t drive it today aside from in and out of the shop. Drags in mid to late Feb if everything goes to plan :)
Am i able to drop in next week John and have a look at it again?
Congratulations!
Looks like a nice install.
Very cool, well done Phil and John.
Way to go guys. Awesome!!! :)
Fast and furious westside.
Hot Damn, that is awesome fellas! again, what a cool build.
Heart must have been racing when you flicked that switch! It's that will she wont she moment ;-)
Great potential engine in a unique Vento Coupe = winner!
Its such an awesome car in the flesh!!!
What amazing control. I couldn't have helped but run it up and down the road - in and out of the shop only ?? Crazy.
Awesome stuff guys !!!!
Very cool 8) 8)
That is an amazing car, it's subtlety is intense almost factory but boy is it going to have a dark side >:D >:D >:D when it's all finished.
Can't wait, are we going to see it at the Jamboree
Thanks guys, sure is good to finally get somewhere close to finishing it.
There's still a ton of little things to do, will have to make a new list this week.
First order is to completely finish the engine bay, our lights /grille etc won't be here for another 4-6 weeks but there will still be plenty to do before then.
Incredible!......Well done you guys! fantastic outcome so far, First for New Zealand there! Should get NZ performance Mag to come have a look at it and organise a shoot when its done !
Top marks guys!
Thanks everyone - great to have the support, really keeps us motivated. :)
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Nice work... 8)
Noticed you changed to a Bora sport cluster... was the other causing problems?
What level of interior trim are you going to reinstall?
Bora sport cluster.................they just look a whole lot better ;D
Interior is pretty much done, will make a radio blank plate, install cage padding and make some door panels but thats about it.
Quote from: vert1 on November 15, 2009, 06:47:15 PM
Bora sport cluster.................they just look a whole lot better ;D
Agreed ;D
woow!!!
Just make an excuse to buy something Hans ;D
John will let you have a look, he treats everyone like he's busy, cause he is!
Even I cant talk his ear off he always says "I better get on with my work"
I guess things like this car don't happen if you are too nice too drooling VW nuts ;D
John will always sort you out with what you need for the best price and can make absolutely anything. And he will let you have a quick look at his projects as long as you don't hang around too long vaskers.
Hope this isn't seen as advertising :P Cause its just greasing. I have been happy with all my dealings with Dubshack.
Getting there with the catch tank, Filx designed this on saturday and made one out of template cardboard so that I could lay it flat and trace it onto aluminium and fold one up.
The tank has some baffles inside it to keep the oil on the bottom and vent the fumes back into the intake
pipe, still have to weld the mounts and back cover plate on but its not far away from being done.
Found a spare spot on the slam panel to mount it on, nicely out of the way.
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Quote from: BB on November 16, 2009, 08:49:33 AM
Just make an excuse to buy something Hans ;D
John will let you have a look, he treats everyone like he's busy, cause he is!
Even I cant talk his ear off he always says "I better get on with my work"
I guess things like this car don't happen if you are too nice too drooling VW nuts ;D
John will always sort you out with what you need for the best price and can make absolutely anything. And he will let you have a quick look at his projects as long as you don't hang around too long vaskers.
Hope this isn't seen as advertising :P Cause its just greasing. I have been happy with all my dealings with Dubshack.
Jem for once you said something everyone can agree with ;D
freaking sweet guys!! That interior looks too mint to go racing in ;)
Finished the catch tank last night, came out bitchin.
Trying to get a jump on the last few things so that we can go driving tomorow!!!! ;D
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Quote from: vert1 on November 20, 2009, 05:00:54 PM
Finished the catch tank last night, came out bitchin.
Trying to get a jump on the last few things so that we can go driving tomorow!!!! ;D
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hmmm, i wonder if i can drive and come check this beast out...i do need to pick up those wheels :laugh:
looks great guys! >:D
Amazing, what a great project/build. I saw this yesterday, looks awesome.
Just get Steph to drive you, will be there in the AM.
i'll need a ride home though because she is at work
You need an automatic then mate! :laugh:
i know, haha i told mum i would swap her my uno for her Peugeot, problem is its fricken pathetic, i would rather bus lol
I witnessed the first test drive today.
This car is cool with a massive punch to back it up. 8) 8) 8)
I will let John & Phil give you te details but the length of thr grins said it all ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
john you know we are all waiting for the update...lay it on us!!
Just a quick update from yesterday.
Started out getting an electric central lock kit installed as we aren't using the vacuum pump system in the Vento. That was a bit of a fiddly mission but eventually got it in neatly installed in the drivers door and then mucked around with the door card to get that to fit a bit better over the roll cage bars, etc.
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After that we installed some seatbelts so we could go out for a cursory drive and waited for the weather to clear up a bit. Softlad was on hand as well and kindly supplied the support vehicle. Basically after a few mins of getting the engine up to temp John did a few mild runs up and down the nearest "closed road" ;). As we're still in shakedown mode it was just a bit of a partial throttle stuff. I took some crappy vids on my point and shoot cam but I'm afraid nothing came out all that well. Here's two that were kind of semi ok.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3zwCZjpU0Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3zwCZjpU0Q)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGqUPKJm1Ns (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGqUPKJm1Ns)
John wasn't really giving it the big rev or anything and the car drives very well off boost, starts making boost around 2500rpm and is pulling very well by 3500. The car feels very strong climbing into the power band so it will be interesting to see how she goes when we can actually use a bit more of it. John can give a few more driving impressions.
We had a couple of, errrrr, minor issues however. We blow off an intercooler hose (no big problem with Softlad around though as he had a full set of tools with him in the chase car and we got it fixed in 5 mins - thanks mate!). After fixing that I jumped in the car with John and we pretty quickly figured out what the issue was - in my excitement I'd overlooked to hook the wastegate up! :o So we had unlimited boost! In fact I witnessed the needle on the boost gauge go significantly past 30psi! >:D I think what saved us doing any lasting damage was the instant wheelspin!
So we pottered back to the shop and charged on with other tasks. Which was basically me sanding the front guards while John finished the interior door lock wiring and a few other bits and bobs. Next week is some more paint, boost controller (and actually make sure the wastegate is hooked up :laugh:) fit the side skirts, etc. That will leave lights, mirrors, front bumper and some paperwork. There's probably a bunch of other stuff to do that I'm forgetting but we're getting pretty close to the end of the build phase now. At least shall we say the end of phase "1" ;)
You sure you boys are capable of driving this car properly? I can show you how if you like ;)
Awesome stuff guys
was cool to see the car yesterday.. its fantastic..
Hope I didnt hold you both up too much from getting on with it
wiicked!!
One window in!
Been thinking about how to do this for quite a while, we had several options like get glass windows made at 2+K or go plastic which we decided to do.
Never even considered how to fit them though, we only started looking at our window options well after the car was painted and it was then that we found out that MR10 is the only legal plastic window for race cars with a WOF.
Trouble is that MR10 can't be formed to the shape of our original windows, flat is all you get >:(
We were told that we'd have to bolt/screw them in but we both thought that would look crape and a better solution would need to be found....................
Maybe a rubber seal like MK1 or MK2, no.................flange on the body is far too wide >:( We then looked at cutting the flange down, on a painted car..............hmmm maybe not! :D
Not being one to give up easy and buckle to bolting them in I thought why not make a simple frame to hold the plastic window in the right shape and urethane them in like factory? doable? you bet ;D
Customwood frame stringers cut to the curvature of the original glass and screwed together to form a frame, now how to hold the window tightly against the frame without drilling holes in it.................suction cups from the hardware store! ;D
Worked a treat, first one glued in today and hopefully the other tomorrow :laugh:
Not out of the woods yet until the frame comes off tomorrow but looking promising so far.
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SOMEBODY give these guys an award for all this!.......
Great stuff
I've seen an article where they made a metal curve out of sheet and baked the mR10 in the oven and lay it on the metal.
But that looks good. If you got the curve to stay you could make them open outs.
If you get inside with a strip heater and let them get hot it will stop them trying to pop out. while the frame is still intact.
what gauge MR10? looks heavy?
That would have been my first choice Brendon, use the original window as a "mold" and heat the whole lot up to take the shape.
The guy at plastics construction (they made the windows) said the MR10 would bubble and or discolour so we flagged that idea.......
The windows are 3 or 4mm I can't remember which.
Just wondering about the natural stress that panel will have, an un natural curve.
If it works , then great.
Yep time will tell, that window urethane is awesome crap!
Providing it sticks like its supposed to then that window aint goin anywhere.
It probably will work John, but it puts a huge amount of faith in modern adhesives, but you are right, this stuff really sticks well.
If it all works out , then project almost complete.
NOW WHAT.............. ;D
Quote from: qta4 on November 25, 2009, 07:37:11 PM
Just wondering about the natural stress that panel will have, an un natural curve.
If it works , then great.
I don't believe it will have much stress on it at all from the curvature. It'll be 200kph with the windows open that'll rip it out ;D Pretty cool idea to jig it up - how the hell that tape is holding it on is anyones guess.
Awesome work John. Looks waaaaaaaay crazier than I imagined when you pitched the idea. :D
I think what Noel has touched on is once the frame is removed what final shape will the plastic take on it's own? We'll all find out soon :D
Yep it may try to flatten a little in the middle of the window but oh well then thats the way it is.
Alllllriiiiiighty - before I go any further I gotta say this thing is strong even on only the 8psi wastegate spring setting. Pulls superbly from 3000-6000 on medium throttle! OK you go through the whole build process and you keep telling yourself, "this thing is going to be pretty nuts" - but until you actually drive it you're never really sure. Well after driving it today I've now got a new found appreciation (with a tinge of apprehension) for just how banana's she's going to be on triple that boost level!
What's cool though is it's perfectly driveable off boost, no fuss pottering around through traffic when I took it in for an alignment this morning. Pretty crisp and responsive to the throttle from just over idle speeds, starts making boost around 2500-3000 depending on gear and load. You could quite easily commute every day with this setup (though a more civilised fuel pump might be in order ;))
Anyway today we ripped into more of the never ending "last little details". We kicked on and put the front guards back on (though they'll be off again at some stage to sort some paint issues), put some headlights lights in, put the side skirts on, gave her a good clean, went for the alignment, etc, etc. Here's a couple of quick snaps - didn't have time to take many photos as we were out driving it as much as we could. >:D
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So tasks remaining are things like sort out the front bumper, install fire extinguisher and a few other bits and bobs and then we can pretty much sign off the build and get on with the tuning and driving. :D
So updates on this thread might not be so regular in future but hopefully people will enjoy seeing the car in the flesh and come for a ride and experience it for themselves. :)
Looks like the windows worked well. Nice work.
What's Noel going on about ??? stress and faith and all that? Most windows are glued in these days and yea as clever flix says it might flatten a bit in the middle but that's what you get.
Looks mint, Nice work again ;)
I want my black golfs paint to look like that cars, its such a good job.
That car looks awesome. Full credit.
Thanks guys - I'm stoked with the rear windows as they've come out really well. A few very minor issues but nothing you can spot from 5m away and they look very convincing. Certainly good enough for what we want. :)
Thanks guys, just goes to show you don't always have to accept the first idea to come along. :-* perseverance pays off sooner or later.
Never did feel right bolting the windows in, will see if they stay there but don't forsee any problem with them.
Looks wicked, definitely need to see more pics. btw John check your messages if you haven't already i sent you a PM last night :)
Quote from: vert1 on November 29, 2009, 03:07:02 PM
Thanks guys, just goes to show you don't always have to accept the first idea to come along. :-* perseverance pays off sooner or later.
Never did feel right bolting the windows in, will see if they stay there but don't forsee any problem with them.
Looks like you and Phil have done a bang up job. Well done and congratulations!!
I suggested to John last night that this car would make a great Targa car.
Even though, it would be with the big boys.
Quote from: BB on November 29, 2009, 08:28:26 AM
What's Noel going on about ??? stress and faith and all that? Most windows are glued in these days and yea as clever flix says it might flatten a bit in the middle but that's what you get.
Yes Jem, most windows are glued in, but most are not usually flat, and being fitted into a curved panel.
So stop being a jerk.
Oh ok Noel. I just sometimes think people think too much about some pretty simple things on here, sorry if you think that's being a jerk.
Looks like they will hold in there ;)
did i hear someone say cannonbull haha. this would be awesome in the cannonrun
Hey guys, saw and heard this beast for the first time in the flesh! .....Awesome stufff the car looks great! ;D
Got a decent drive in the Vento tonight, out driving for about 40min.
Phil got a new oil hose made for the turbo yesterday as our original one was leaking oil down the back of the engine onto the hot manifold with the predictable result, FIRE!
Seems that quite a bit of oil had leaked onto our exhaust wrap and once I saw smoke coming from under the bonnet and through the dash vents :laugh: I knew something was a mis, popped the bonnet and oh look, fire!
Got it put out pretty quick and now with new oil line made went for a drive tonight, only set at 8psi but pulls like a schoolboy!
Picks up speed at a rapid pace, rev to 6K and beyond its still on full boost into next gear and just keeps on going.
Whole car feels great, hopefully we'll get on it a bit more this weekend.
I had hot fire burning out my vents on the first install. wiper washer pipe got hot and sagged onto down pipe = hot fire!
lucky my mate was quick with the hose!
Need to get a WOTBox now eh! ;D ;D ;D
Burn like a fire, burn like a fire in vento :P
We did a few more minor tasks today - raised the suspension a tad, got a fire extinguisher (see above, :D), put in the guard liners and played around with the Eurodyne software a bit more. Also plugged in a basic boost tap to see what she would go like with a few more PSI on board.
We set it to around 10psi (would rise to 11-12 as it came on boost and then settle at 10) still low boost, 2/3 throttle and shifting at 6500rom type stuff for this shakedown phase but certainly made it a bit more fun than 8psi.
We put maybe another 50kms or so on the clock which was good. Interestingly you notice the lag more with higher boost. It still goes fine low down but the difference between being on and off boost is much more pronounced there it seems more laggy. Thankfully the transition is still relatively smooth with minimal wheelspin or torque steer - it just hunts the redline a lot better :) I just can't wait to try it on 25psi! :laugh:
Here's a couple more crappy vids from my point and shoot camera.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EpwMj-EhOw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EpwMj-EhOw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01MgqHB5ab4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01MgqHB5ab4)
Great project, you lot have done a fantastic job.
Fire was a bit of scare though, they do seem to get hot around that turbo, Good job you spotted it and it didn't end up like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tshlIpUpoP0
That would be a real disaster, good to hear you have an extingusher on board.
Keep up the good work ;D
in that video they broke rule number one of an under bonnet fire, which is KEEP THE BONNET CLOSED
with the bonnet and doors open, that fire had plenty of fresh air to keep it going
I guess the lesson learnt is that with any modified car or any car for that matter a fire extinguisher should be carried.
If they had one on hand that fire wouldn't have gotten any further than the engine bay, not a laughing matter really.
Anyways we have one now, just need to mount it somewhere ;)
Quote from: vert1 on December 07, 2009, 11:42:30 AM
I guess the lesson learnt is that with any modified car or any car for that matter a fire extinguisher should be carried.
If they had one on hand that fire wouldn't have gotten any further than the engine bay, not a laughing matter really.
Anyways we have one now, just need to mount it somewhere ;)
they did have a fire extinguisher, see it at 0:55, but too little, too late
should have used it on the under-bonnet fire right at the outset
Impressed with the response time of the fire department
Quote from: vert1 on December 07, 2009, 11:42:30 AM
I guess the lesson learnt is that with any modified car or any car for that matter a fire extinguisher should be carried.
If they had one on hand that fire wouldn't have gotten any further than the engine bay, not a laughing matter really.
Anyways we have one now, just need to mount it somewhere ;)
Hey, it's not a laughing matter at all, I would be gutted if that happened to either of my Golfs, it would be even worse for you guys after all the hard work that has gone into the Vento, but it just goes to show that it can happen so quickly and you should always carry an extinguisher and one that works as the one in the video did not!!
Nice job Guy's--Car looks well done!
Just wondered how much you have spent on it so far???
its against the rules to add it up, best put the reciepts away in a nice dark (safe) place . . . .
these guys have real talent & do a lot of the tricky stuff on a sat morn'in before smoko
double thumbs up!!
It is certainly an impressive car to see in the flesh, and finished to a very high standard. Well done guys.
Quote from: gti vr6 on December 10, 2009, 09:57:59 PM
its against the rules to add it up, best put the reciepts away in a nice dark (safe) place . . . .
Retain them only for tax purposes, if that's not relevant, then burn them.
Its advertising.
Saw the Beast this morning very nice in the flesh, Loved the deep exhaust note at startup >:D
We did a few more miles in the car today - it's so much fun to drive it's not hard to find excuses to take it out. John headed to the weigh station to get some answers to one of our ongoing questions of what the Vento weighs. My guess was 1250-1300kg but as you can see I was a fair bit off (this is with 1/2 a tank of petrol).
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Then a few more miles stopping occasionally to play around with boost levels. I think some better front tyres will go a long way towards taming the wheelspin which is fairly prevalent in 2nd and 3rd. But being judicious with the throttle is also sensible obviously. :D
Wow that will be a pretty deadly power to weight ratio then - awesome!
Hard to believe 20 months has passed since you started this thread. Looking forward to hearing the car running.
Yup time flies by, not bad considering the majority was done on saturdays.
Maybe you would be best to come for a ride instead of just hearing it running ? ;D
Sounds like a plan 8)
Show's how much those damn back seats weigh. ;)
Is she all certed yet?
Will start the paperwork trail in the new year, will have to jump through quite a few hoops to get it on the road I think.
So you are driving this car on the road without a warrant, NAUGHTY BOY.
When you get the paper work sorted John, you will find that the only way to get a warrant is to have a valid Authority card.
And the only way you can keep your authority card is to do 3 MANZ approved events per year.
It is to sort those people put who fit cages to cars and only drive them about.
Should be a piece of cake for you guys.
We are legal for now on dealer plate with the relevant paperwork completed.
Can drive car in a 50km radius from where the plate is registered.
I dont know how things work in Auckland, but down here you actually have to have a warrant of fitness even to use dealer plates.
So that means.............................you know what
Nope not true, there are several conditions under which you don't need a WOF with trade plates.
You need to fill in paperwork from LTNZ which needs to be presented to Police if they stop you.
All trade plates work the same, would not be any different down your way.
well thats good then John, i have never heard of that before, but im from the country ;D
Did you see the weight slip Noel?
About what I thought............not bad though if we make the power we are aiming for.
Quote from: qta4 on December 13, 2009, 08:32:05 PM
well thats good then John, i have never heard of that before, but im from the country ;D
Don't worry Noel; being from the country you'll find out about in 3 or so years ;D
Quote from: vert1 on December 13, 2009, 08:37:12 PM
Did you see the weight slip Noel?
About what I thought............not bad though if we make the power we are aiming for.
yes , very good.
I thought weight would have been a little more than that.
About 100kgs more than mine.
It will be very interesting when its running full power.
Wasn't yours 980kg with full tank Noel?
That would make ours about 180kg more than yours if we had a full tank so we will need that extra power to keep up :D
Quote from: vert1 on December 14, 2009, 08:17:47 AM
Wasn't yours 980kg with full tank Noel?
That would make ours about 180kg more than yours if we had a full tank so we will need that extra power to keep up :D
I meant to say 200kgs, mine is 960 full of fuel , without driver or passenger.
You should just go get weighed at the dump or something, $10 to drive on a scales! Bloody councils.
That was at the dump jem, owned by the council ;D
You mean you were pwned.... ;)
Im sure I could sweet talk those dump ladys into a free weigh......maybe not.
Reminds me of a joke, it's visual, and really only worked after a few bevvies.
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2FDSC04348.jpg&hash=5c48efcd41fd30146dc8ca7aa2cc629077f856c4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oymmVQymPg0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oymmVQymPg0)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6rwlfHDCKM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6rwlfHDCKM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDk86sSw1cc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDk86sSw1cc)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZnRadiEAEo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZnRadiEAEo)
I <3 HD :-*
Coooooooool! ;D
Hows traction? How many pounds of boost are you running now?
Would be a bitch trying to get power down in the wet id imagine.
Yep, the moving chicane went well today. Even our street tyres surprised us with their grip, got ripped up quite a bit but thats what they are for.
Ran 15psi on the track and probably won't need any more than that, minimal wheelspin and managed 210-220kmh down the straight.
The brakes on the other hand are TOAST ;D, pads are completely shot.
Must have been a soft street pad to wear out that quick, not that they were new but there was plenty of material left on them..................but...........not anymore :D
The ABS is great, comes in really late -so not intrusive at all.
We could not be more pleased with the build, just have to learn how to drive now....................was good to have some expert coaching.
We did quite a few moderate laps and about 9-10 full on ones, oil temps saw 230F...............WOW, what an afternoon. >:D
Not bad for a 1.8T ;) ;D
Nice work, seems that big turbo is doing a good job.
Awesome!! Must have been good to have the track to your self.
Moving chicane.... lo RF l.
Bit rude not to invite me along if you had the whole track to yourselves!
Don't worry Jem, we are working on a VASK twilight track meeting ;)
But yes, it was awesome to have the track to ourselves ;D
A little bit of on board video with hard man Darren behind the wheel. :D Excuse the sound quality - still coming to grips with the camera and mounting position.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63e5mw_PWu4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63e5mw_PWu4)
That looked fantastic, and to Quote the man at the end " F***ing Awesome"
You must be getting more & more pleased with the results, and this is only shake down.
How did you manage to get an empty Hampton Downs to play on?
John and Phil were kind enough to let me drive their new baby at Hampton Downs and what a baby it is.
I was expecting to jump into a ploughing bucking beast but I am pleased to say that it was a well behaved sled.
The accelleration pushed you back into the seats and keeps on going right through to 7500rpm where I changed each time. It was still pulling at 7500 but I didn't want to push it too hard. The chassis is nice and stiff with the cage in it and when you turn in it just goes where you point it. You need to feed in the power out of the turns or it will understeer badly but that is to be expected. The handling is very neutral and this beast really is a pleasure to drive hard.
I love this car. The testing showed that the only real weakness is the brakes but there are plans for those being formulated. All credit to the guys for building an exceptional car that looks like it could have come out of the factory like this.
Quote from: vert1 on December 19, 2009, 09:44:09 PM
... oil temps saw 230F...............
That's a fair bit on the high side eh? Even a 911 should only run at 180F, they say 220F plus is too damn hot.
230F is 110c so pretty much spot on I think, 180F is only 82c so even for an aircooled motor its a bit on the cold side?
BRING ON THE TWILIGHT VASK HAMPER!
Read the events man ;D
Yeah interesting eh? 'Normal' temp in 911's that I'm familiar with anyway are 180F, can do 210 if working hard for a while but above 220 is considered too hot. However with more modern materials, liquid cooling, better oils etc the tolerance is obviously higher. My CQ though never runs above about 90C oil temp.
I'm not saying 230 is incorrect in any way, it's just kind of hot, esp for oil.
Yep interesting alight, my MK2 16V used to run between 100-104c oil temp on the road.
Like you say good oil and watercooling make all the difference, if I was seeing 110c in my Type4 I would be concerned but the 1.8T seems fine with it.
Water temps never exceeded 90c
what oil you using John?
for the 1.8T with the mods you have done I can highly recommend Castrol Edge Sport 10W 60 or even 5W 60?
Ive been using the Castrol Edge Sport 20W 60 on the VR6 and its perrrrrrrfect oil.
What oil do you use Vert?
Valvoline synpower 10w 50.
Cool thats what were putting in Toms beast now. The semi 15/40 was not good enough, turbo had a new seal fitted and guy said there were heat marks on the spindle where the oil wasn't coping. And it was consuming it badly.
They recon its running rich tho as well ??? lots of soft soot in the exhaust.
Has a new temp sender to ecu, runs very well,goes like a scolded cat.
New Ferodo race pads fitted today, flushed brakes and bled high boiling point fluid through so hopefully this will cure our 3 lap brake loss ;D
Dropped the sump off the engine and bored a hole in it to fit a oil level sensor that some of the MK4's have, when we did the DBW ECU swap this wiring was already there so we decided to make use of it.
Will fit a smaller oil restrictor to the turbo also when GSS opens again, Hollidays are great, mucho progress ;D
Is your Turbo ball bearing?, if so , a restrictor is neccessary on the oil inlet side.
Yes it is Noel, we have a restrictor already (1mm) but Phils research shows we may need an even smaller one.
I always wondered about these restrictors, so are they only needed on ball bearing turbos?
Apparently yes Rob, factory turbo doesn't have one.
Garret specifies a 0.90mm restrictor but Phil has found out that if you have high oil pressure (like 1.8T) you may need an even smaller restrictor.
I dont know what size my restrictor is, bloody small though, i just fitted what was sent with the unit.
You will probably find that it really depends on your oil viscosity, whether you need to reduce size.
And you are using 50 grade oil, doubt it will be necessary to reduce restrictor.
Anyway its good doing the research.
The challenge is there's no set restrictor size as they work on a pressure at max RPM. This is what Garrett say about it
QuoteBall-bearing turbochargers can benefit from the addition of an oil restrictor, as most engines deliver more pressure than a ball bearing turbo requires. The benefit is seen in improved boost response due to less windage of oil in the bearing. In addition, lower oil flow further reduces the risk of oil leakage compared to journal-bearing turbochargers. Oil pressure entering a ball-bearing turbocharger needs to be between 40 psi and 45 psi at the maximum engine operating speed. For many common passenger vehicle engines, this generally translates into a restrictor with a minimum of 0.040" diameter orifice upstream of the oil inlet on the turbocharger center section. Again, it is imperative that the restrictor be sized according to the oil pressure characteristics of the engine to which the turbo is attached. Always verify that the appropriate oil pressure is reaching the turbo.
The use of an oil restrictor can (but not always) help ensure that you have the proper oil flow/pressure entering the turbocharger, as well as extract the maximum performance.
Source http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/faqs.html#t16 (http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/faqs.html#t16)
0.040" is 1mm so maybe we're on target but our oil pressure is high and flow at max RPM must be pretty substantial. Maybe we can figure out a way to test the oil pressure?
As an aside I have read a post from an overseas forum (VWVortex from memory) that talked about turbo failure (less than 10,000 mile lifespan) apparently caused by too much oil on the guys Garrett DBB turbo - but I certainly don't know enough about turbos to be able to validate if that is real issue or not. I know more commonly people talk about oil smoke created by too much oil pressure/volume in DBB turbo's - not something we have noted in the Vento.
Was the restrictor you fitted, supplied by your turbo supplier?
I looked up my supplier today, and mine is 1mm.
So yours is pretty right.
Its also very interesting to note that the outlet from the turbo to the sump, should it be below or abovethe oil level of the sump?
When anyone searches the internet, they will find that the above oil level, is the correct place to feed oil back into the oil pan.
Its also interesting to note that Audi, have always fed their spent oil back under the existing oil level.
So, who do you believe?
I tend to believe Audi engineers.
John made the restrictor as no one had any in stock when we changed to the new oil line set up. We used the stock Audi oil return location as I too feel if it's good enough for VW/Audi then that's good enough for me. :D
Anyway I'm just hanging out for some more seat time in the car at the moment to try out the new brakes! 8)
Just got back from a bit of test and tune, brakes are the shizz now no more fade.
Could do with a little less pedal travel by increasing the m/c size 1mm or so, other than that they feel great.
Its just got spades of power, wheelspin in 2nd and 3rd so will investigate track tyres this week ;D for the upcoming 11th fun night!
Also have to look at a heat shield on the inside of the bonnet, could smell hot fiberglass at one point :o
Small update on the car. Got a bit of time on Sat to rip into it again - but it ended up being one of those days of one step forward and one step back that you just need to push through and focus on the positive. Which in this case was ripping into the pile of FK bits that arrived and getting the lights installed.
Which of course meant more wiring, can't seem to get away from it. Though to be fair there was a bit extra for us as we're adapting Mk4 loom to Mk3 lights - but John knocked it all over with my able assistance pretty quickly. So a few hours later we had them in place and working as per below. There's also a debadged pre-facelift grille to go in as well.
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Frustrations are the bolts on the downpipe are still coming loose and we discovered two were loose and two were missing! :o Of course because VW in their wisdom put the turbo at the back of the engine getting at them to install a solution is a nightmare. The real frustration for me though is I should have anticipated this challenge and optioned a v-band exhaust housing to start with when we ordered the turbo! 20/20 hindsight eh - pretty bloody useless! :D
So next for the car is come up with a solution for the bolt problem, drop the front engine mount to lean the engine forward and install solution. Current thinking is wire tying all the bolts together so they can't spin loose. Suggestions are welcome though :D
I've been told V-Band clamps aren't perfect either and require regular maintainance.
I was also told to use studs not bolts.
Stop driving it; that will stop them from falling out.
I use studs and have never had to address the problem you are experiencing, but also a flexi coupling after that.
I thought a flexi on the vertical part would have been better, but room prevented that, so mine is horizontal.
So screw studs into the turbo and then use nuts on them to clamp the downpipe to the exhaust housing? Excuse my ignorance but how is that different to using bolts? We've got a flexi but it's further down on the downpipe. We might need to support the upper part of the downpipe to the block somehow as well so it doesn't weigh on the turbo so much.
Quote from: AngleBox on January 25, 2010, 08:25:15 PM
Stop driving it; that will stop them from falling out.
Do you mean start another project? ;)
Quote from: robh on January 25, 2010, 08:20:54 PM
I've been told V-Band clamps aren't perfect either and require regular maintainance.
Yeah same here, but they must be easier and simpler to use though. I'm starting to see them on all sorts of stuff that would have been bolted a few years ago so they must be an improvement. I expect we'll see them in OEM applications soon as well.
Put two nuts on
I don't think a stud will stay in any better than a bolt as its pretty much the same thing, the only benefit will be that you could bottom out the stud in the exhaust housing possibly making it tighter than a bolt.
Two nuts won't do anything either, a stud will most likely come loose and unscrew just like a bolt will.
Only way is locking tabs around the bolt heads or wire tie the suckers on, been thinking about it today and I think I'll make a couple of curved plates that slip over 2 of the bolts on each side with locking tabs on them
This way the locking plate can't turn and the tabs will stop the bolt coming loose.
The problem with wire tieing the bolts is that they can still come loose, they just can't fall out so not my prefered option.
With the work involved to do this it has to work this time round so will keep thinking until I have the right solution I'm happy with.
The tab and nut issue has some drawbacks. I unfortunately have a brain like a seive so can't remember what it is, but not quite the be all and end all it should be. Mechanics from the 60's will be able to tell you why it's a problem as I can't remember. Went through a similar problem with my engine mounts, but more easily solved than yours because the heat load is relatively low.
If that doesn't work then out of sheer desperation I'll just weld the bolt head to the exhaust :laugh:
any updates of the car.....paint and look wise?
Oh try cable ties on the exhaust , cabel ties hold anything and everything together ;D
Quote from: GolfBag on January 25, 2010, 10:15:02 PM
Oh try cable ties on the exhaust , cabel ties hold anything and everything together ;D
I don't think they will last 5 mins for the job they are doing Arno :D
Quote from: GolfBag on January 25, 2010, 10:15:02 PM
any updates of the car.....paint and look wise?
Oh try cable ties on the exhaust , cabel ties hold anything and everything together ;D
Dont you think they'll melt?
Quote from: tyz-fly on January 25, 2010, 10:17:15 PM
Dont you think they'll melt?
sorry forgot to insert (sarcastic smylie)
;)
Quote from: GolfBag on January 25, 2010, 10:15:02 PM
any updates of the car.....paint and look wise?
Oh try cable ties on the exhaust , cabel ties hold anything and everything together ;D
Check previous page, new lights! :P
Quote from: vert1 on January 25, 2010, 10:19:29 PM
Check previous page, new lights! :P
true true .....so jelouse ....my god i want those lights!!!!........Looking good still , you guys keep it up and sure all problems you will figure out. ;) ;) ;D
Quote from: Filx on January 25, 2010, 08:56:15 PM
So screw studs into the turbo and then use nuts on them to clamp the downpipe to the exhaust housing? Excuse my ignorance but how is that different to using bolts? We've got a flexi but it's further down on the downpipe. We might need to support the upper part of the downpipe to the block somehow as well so it doesn't weigh on the turbo so much.
Do you mean start another project? ;)
Yeah same here, but they must be easier and simpler to use though. I'm starting to see them on all sorts of stuff that would have been bolted a few years ago so they must be an improvement. I expect we'll see them in OEM applications soon as well.
Not sure why studs are supposed to be better, but when I think about it most of the cylinder heads I've seen use studs to mount the exhaust manifold and it's the same sort of heat area ???
Anyone have experience with Loctite 2422 or 2620? http://www.adhesivesandsealants.com/article.mvc/New-Loctite-High-Temperature-Threadlockers-0001?VNETCOOKIE=NO (http://www.adhesivesandsealants.com/article.mvc/New-Loctite-High-Temperature-Threadlockers-0001?VNETCOOKIE=NO)
QuoteHenkel Corporation has introduced Loctite 2422 and Loctite 2620, two threadlocking adhesives formulated to withstand heat and stress to 650 degrees F.
These anaerobic adhesives are ideal for use in industrial ovens, heat treatment operations, turbo engines, boiler rooms, refineries, pulp and paper processing, glass manufacturing, and metal fabrication processes.
Loctite 2422 is a medium strength threadlocker designed for applications where disassembly with hand tools is desired. High strength Loctite 2620 requires short-term exposure to temperatures over 650 degrees F in order to remove the nut and bolt with hand tools.
Both threadlockers are anaerobic pastes that solidify when confined between close-fitting metal surfaces in the absence of air. These adhesives prevent loosening from shock and vibration, eliminate leakage, and withstand exposure to harsh fluids. The products are available in convenient syringe packages for easy dispensing.
For more information on Loctite High Temperature Threadlockers, call 1-800-LOCTITE or visit the company's website at http://www.useloctite.com.
SOURCE: Henkel Loctite Corporation
I'm not sure if that is a high enough temperature range. Likely to be fine for heads but perhaps not your turbo?
How to tell what temperature a glowing object (metals) might be:
Doesn?t really matter what the emitter is?stainless steel, cast iron, tungsten in your light bulb, the temps are about the same for a given color. Generally accepted colors/temps are:
C F Color
400 752 Red heat, visible in the dark
474 885 Red heat, visible in the twilight
525 975 Red heat, visible in the daylight
581 1077 Red heat, visible in the sunlight
700 1292 Dark red
800 1472 Dull cherry-red
900 1652 Cherry-red
1000 1832 Bright cherry-red
1100 2012 Orange-red
C= Centigrade
F= Farenheit
Studs are better. A bolt is one piece a stud and a nut are two pieces and it makes a difference. The stud is hard and the nut is soft so they flex instead of just coming loose. That is why cars all have a stud when it would be easier to have a bolt then you wouldn't have to lever the manifolds back off them (the studs) when taking a head off etc
Quote from: vert1 on January 25, 2010, 10:00:50 PM
I don't think a stud will stay in any better than a bolt as its pretty much the same thing, the only benefit will be that you could bottom out the stud in the exhaust housing possibly making it tighter than a bolt.
I was simply saying what i use, factory mounting.
I think your problem is the flexi, being mounted so far down the pipe, so unless you support the down pipe back to the block, you may still have a problem, studd or bolt.
The leverage is quite big
Phil was put to work ;D making our little locking tab thingys for the downpipe this morning, installing 3 of the 4 was a piece of cake and went very well but the 4th one was buried behind the engine against the firewall which was going to pose a problem.
Bonus being able to drop the front engine spacer off to lower the front of the engine low enough to be able to get to the offending bolt, still very difficult but it was just a case of figuring out the best way to tackle the job.
All bolts in place and lock tabs bent over so we'll see what happens now..................hopefully the 10,9 grade bolts are up to the job.
Phil scored some Toyo Proxes888 semi slicks off TM so they duely got mounted on our spare OZ track rims also, will be interesting to see how grip improves.
They will make a huge difference!
And the 888's are good! I rate them!
What size? 205/17?
A couple of pics of the tabs - not my prettiest work but gawddam if those nuts come loose after this we're taking the motor out and going V-Band!
Close up of the lock tab - SEXY :D
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Installation under way - that bottom left bolt was a prick!
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Quote from: GTI's on January 30, 2010, 07:43:07 PM
They will make a huge difference!
And the 888's are good! I rate them!
What size? 205/17?
Correct B, 205s. Not quite as good a deal as I'd hoped as it turns out the inside of the shoulder on two of them had a bit of damage - most likely from running under inflated - I suspect probably used for drag racing. I didn't notice but the guy at the tyre shop spotted it within 10 seconds - learn something new every day I guess. But still they mounted up ok so we'll see how they go. The good two tyres end up as rears probably anyway and we'll invest in some 215s for the front at some stage to aid traction.
To take advantage of the tyres I'm also chasing up some uprated rear sway bar options and we'll dial a bit more camber in at the front. I'd love a solution for the front that adds castor as well but still researching what do do there.
Quote from: GTI's on January 30, 2010, 07:43:07 PM
They will make a huge difference!
And the 888's are good! I rate them!
What size? 205/17?
Yep 205/40/17, can't wait to ry them. The OZ wheels are sooooooo light!
Bildon doesn't have concentric top mounts or anything juicy along those lines?
Good thought Dennis, will look into it.
Quote from: robh on January 25, 2010, 08:20:54 PM
I've been told V-Band clamps aren't perfect either and require regular maintainance.
I was also told to use studs not bolts.
I have a v band clamp holding my exhaust on to the turbo, never touched it. Might explain why it smells like i have an exhaust leak up there somewhere though :-\
Maybe just check that it's still tight?
I think if we have to change this set up as it will mean pulling the the motor out we may as well go for a bigger V-banded turbo and sell the 3071 >:D
I like that idea Phil! ;D
the BMW 2002 running in the 70's class was producing 700BHP and 28 pounds of boost!
Gave Racing Rays 930 turbo a good hiding on Saturday >:D Just ate the back straight like everyone else had stopped!
Big turbo on 4 cyls >:D >:D >:D
That thing is sooooooooo mean! Just absolutely stunning and looks like it could move the earth if it was headed in the wrong direction.
Quote from: GTI's on February 01, 2010, 11:15:55 AM
the BMW 2002 running in the 70's class was producing 700BHP and 28 pounds of boost!
Mike Delmont???
Yes that's him!
bahahah i know mike.. hes a crazy cat... i was never sure if he was all talk no action... however.. good character nonetheless
Just a little more progess, installed the new harness anchors and belts.
Had a bit of plastic welding done to the front bumper to tidy up the huge hole we cut in it for the intercooler.
One more piece to get welded on to finish that and then it can be primered, will the re-paint the front guards, paint the bumper, grill and mirrors.
Quite keen to get this car visually finished, we keep getting side tracked going to the track instead :laugh:
Tried the OZ wheels with track rubber on the car and made some centering rings for them, two of our track tyres are no good as the bonehead we bought them off has run them under inflated which has ruined the sidewall causing a nice big bubble on one of them so less than ideal to thrash around a track on.
So.............we may just buy 2 new tyres for the front but slightly wider like a 215 0r 225 to aid traction.
Quote from: vert1 on February 13, 2010, 06:03:34 PM
So.............we may just buy 2 new tyres for the front but slightly wider like a 215 0r 225 to aid traction.
maybe a slightly larger profile as well?
Probably try to keep a 40 profile, being a bit wider the rolling diameter will be a little bigger anyway.
Little bit of an update - pressing on with getting the body work fully finished John got the plastic welding done on the bumper and primed and sanded. He also fitted up the badgeless grille. So just some more final sanding, then fresh paint on the bumper and guards to resolve the colour match issue and a few other bits and pieces and we're pretty much home and hosed.
I got some new R888 tyres during the week for the track rims, 205/40/17s in the end as I couldn't get any other sizes with a low enough profile to be close to our normal rolling radius and we managed to sneak on hour down at HD last night. Here's a few pics of the car as it stands at present.
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There's still a lot of work to be done on handling and set up to get the most out of the tyres as I found whilst they improved traction out of corners (quite a big issue for the Vento) I just don't seem to be able to get the car to grip well during the middle of the longer corners. Though that's largely also my crappy driving abilities :D
The other thing I noticed on the right/left S bend the car is better as you can pull 3rd comfortably through there now where on street tyres it was annoyingly at the top of 2nd, or a shade too slow for 3rd. Actually I was exiting the S bend with so much more momentum I overshot the right hand hairpin several times as my brake marker was way off.
My best yesterday was a 1:23.1 which is my best lap so far, but there's a long way to go - I'd like to see the car doing low 1:20s at current boost level before adding any more power.
So no more twilight sessions?
When i saw it yesterday it looked awesome Phil, and im glad to see you got those seat belts even
Quote from: GTI's on February 21, 2010, 11:40:10 AM
So no more twilight sessions?
Will be one in April, just waiting on a date. Was not enough track time yesterday to make it worthwhile organising.
cars looking great! very purposeful.
Last Sat we took the guards and doors off, stripped the doors an sanded the whole lot as well as the bumper to prep for the paint. John sent the items away for paint during the week and yesterday we re-assembled the car (hopefully for final time for a while :D)
Here's a few updated pics - just need to add the brake duct vents and mirrors and she's pretty much done cosmetically.
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that looks hawt!! 8)
What class are you guys going to race in?
Nothing serious I don't think, will be doing track days and hopefully some drag racing.
Still some more work to be done on the handling side of things also, we'll run the car at 15psi on the dyno day to check AF and then look at running more boost if all is good to go.
paint the bottom part of the grille :-*
Just my 2 cents... ;)
Quote from: GolfBag on March 07, 2010, 11:37:01 AM
paint the bottom part of the grille :-*
dont do it! imo it looks more purposeful the way it is
I'd paint the whole grille :D
Quote from: rambo_005 on March 07, 2010, 03:51:47 PM
I'd paint the whole grille :D
Hot pink the grille and wheels.......FRESHHH :laugh:
How come you had to het the doors and guards painted again? I thought they were all perfect first time around.
We didn't paint the guards/front bumper when the car got done so there was a huge colour difference, still not perfect now but good enough to pass.
Will get onto some signwriting next.
Quote from: choppy16v on March 07, 2010, 01:53:01 PM
dont do it! imo it looks more purposeful the way it is
I'm with chops it looks mean as it is. Those lights look great.
Looks great as it is, best project car on VASK I would say. Well done!!!
Thanks guys, there is a lot more development left in this setup- we are only playing with 15psi so far and looking forward to Antons dyno day to see what that 15psi makes power wise.
Hopefully it will inspire others to do a big turbo 1.8T, as you can see its not that hard to do.
Cooking up a new project ATM, hopefully I'll be able to start on it in the coming weeks once the last cosmetic details are done on this one.
gonna strip flix's new yella one and mount all the awesome bits on this one???? :laugh:
Were at Rantons Dyno day this morning (thanks for organising Anton)
A good selection of cars there and quite a few being played around with putting down good power.
The Vento made 214.9KW @ wheels set at 15psi boost, running a little lean towards the top end so thats an area to work on with Maestro and also the stock N75 valve will get the chop as the boost readings were not at all steady.
Overall we are extremely happy, still plenty more left in it. Great to get some base figures to work from.
Shame i missed it, most importantly tho ;D Did it sound good at 7000rpm, Toms sounded wicked! Antons like a sewing machine gone mental :D
She was a bit louder and rougher sounding than most of them there today - but not too bad. Most noise seemed drowned out by the wastegate when it opened up.
As John said we need to work on the boost control and do some dyno logging and then head back to Torque Performance to lean on it a bit harder. I would like to see it beat that S15 that was there today :D
What did the s15 pull?
About 240KW I think.
Quote from: Vert1 on March 20, 2010, 04:46:30 PM
About 240KW I think.
The sr20det are a good engine, mate has a s15 spec r with a few mods, goes like stink
Quote from: Vert1 on March 20, 2010, 01:34:30 PM
Were at Rantons Dyno day this morning (thanks for organising Anton)
A good selection of cars there and quite a few being played around with putting down good power.
The Vento made 214.9KW @ wheels set at 15psi boost, running a little lean towards the top end so thats an area to work on with Maestro and also the stock N75 valve will get the chop as the boost readings were not at all steady.
Overall we are extremely happy, still plenty more left in it. Great to get some base figures to work from.
You must be happy with that John, mine did 240 hp at the wheels,from memory, and yours did 280 hp.
But thats still miles away from 400hp, are you sure you need that much?.
Thanks Noel,
It was a little more than I had expected, not that I had any idea but thought 200KW would be nice so to go above that was pretty good.
Yes still some way off 400 but there is still more left in the old girl yet, we talked about it on the way back and figured the N75's irratic boost control probably would not have helped our A/F ratio's either.
A/F was only a little lean towards the top end so we'll try a boost controller first (will need one anyway) and see how/if the A/F changes otherwise we can fatten that up with the Maestro.
I think we'll try 20psi next and see...... ;D
The thing that amazes me is that a car with 100kw goes pretty well, add another 100kw and the car doesn't go twice as fast.
Plus the aerodynamics involved, car needs much more than double to go twice as fast.
I'm sure someone here will post abut just how much power is reqd to go twice as fast.
When my car was boosting at 18lbs boost, it was dangerous, mostly because thepower just erupted so fast.
Really nervous on the road, maybe better or easier on a track.
There's no way we can use all that power this car is capable of but it sure is fun though! ;D
My only regret..................shoulda gone AWD.
That Euroline S2 at the Targa, broke back axles twice during the event.
And these axles were huge, i dont know just how much power he was putting through them, just slipped the clutch sideways at about 6k revs, was impressive when it worked , but not too flash when it let go.
The best way to wreck your drivetrain...............sidestep the clutch at 6K revs, glad its not my car.
Yeah, sure is, but 4wheel drive is the problem.
At least you and me have 2 wheel drive, and when too much torque is driven through the wheels, results in loss of traction.
And I'm still using my original Mk1 Golf outer CV's >:D
With the S2, the axles are held with a bolt, whereas my Mk1 has a nut, it was this bolt that broke, Rob said that the factory bolt is expensive, really makes me wonder just how expensive, in comparison to not finishing an event.
The grip that car has is huge, really impressive to watch.
Quote from: qta4 on March 20, 2010, 06:57:57 PM
That Euroline S2 at the Targa, broke back axles twice during the event.
And these axles were huge, i dont know just how much power he was putting through them, just slipped the clutch sideways at about 6k revs, was impressive when it worked , but not too flash when it let go.
What part of the axle was he braking?
It was the bolt that was breaking.
The bolt that holds the cv in the hub? there shouldnt be much load on it
Thats what broke, leaving the bearing going wa wa in space
crazy, never heard of the happening,
I couldnt understand it either, also dont know what else may have been in error, but the result was a broken bolt, twice.
Are you saying they used an after market bolt rather than the genuine one?
Maybe the camber of the wheels put a short and sharp jolt outwards on those bolts and they popped the heads off ???
Toms car has at least 240whp and It comes on pretty smooth I think, its very drivable still just bloody quick.
Quote from: Vert1 on March 20, 2010, 06:52:44 PM
There's no way we can use all that power this car is capable of but it sure is fun though! ;D
My only regret..................shoulda gone AWD.
Then you would need 500hp! Funny thing is the boys in the big rwd V8 classes (and I'm sure a few select BMW's) seem to do fine. Must be the explosive power that comes with squeezing a 4 cylinder that hard which makes it such a handful?
I did a dyno run with a Golf 1.8t that put down 350hp ATW - it was running 25psi (or there abouts) and avgas. It was incredibly loud but very, very cool.
Nice results!!! ;D
Now ramp up that boost!! ;D :P
Quote from: Vert1 on March 20, 2010, 06:52:44 PM
My only regret..................shoulda gone AWD.
Well, the quattro/4-Mo crowd told you so ;D
Just finished this, phew, what a mission but well worth it. Amazing car.
I think I'l sell one of my e30s and get a VW >:D
Ordered :)
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Ooooohhhhh goody! We can finally push this thing harder ;D
Hi like the head lights ,looking for a set for mk3 golf.
Quote from: Filx on April 15, 2010, 10:08:11 PM
Ordered :)
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How much Phil?
$475 from NZ Performance www.nzperformance.co.nz (http://www.nzperformance.co.nz) - not sure if that's the cheapest but Paul is a good guy to deal with and very responsive so I like going there.
I did a bit of reading and talking to people and these seemed to be generally considered the most reliable and cost effective unit. The high end E-Boost controller was double the price and has a ton of nice features like gear selectable boost levels etc - but was just a bit more than I felt we need at this stage.
Took the Vento for a spin yesterday, such a difference between road and track.
On the road 15psi is MORE than enough to get into trouble, it picks up speed sooooo quick and runs out of road in the blink of an eye. On the track however we can probably handle some more power, hadn't driven it for a good month and you forget just how violent it can be on the street. Great fun though! :laugh:
Have to fit boost controller now and head back to Torque.
Too true, the track always makes you want more power. Where as on the road you can get in to trouble too quickly.
I dragged John off the Bora this morning to get this boost controller installed :D. First thing was mounting the solenoid and running the vac/boost lines. I did some reading, talked to a few people and decided the twin port method would be a good starting point. This adds the boost pressure to the top port to hold the wastegate shut and helps mitigate back pressure forcing the gate open at high rpm.
Time will tell if this is the right method to use but for the moment the theory seems sound - especially as we'll be running max boost pressure close to double the wastegate spring pressure so a little help for the poor little 1 Bar spring probably isn't a bad thing. :D Here's how it looks sans engine cover.
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The onto the wiring and mounting of the unit. We cast our eyes around for a spot within reach with the harnesses on and it didn't take long to settle on the spot vacated by the cup holders. A bit of plastic trimming and the unit was installed - the wiring was a bit of a pain, especially running the wires through the firewall to the engine bay. But John got on top of that and pretty soon it was all good to go.
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Now we just need to configure the low and high boost settings and we're good to go - but that will have to wait for the next dyno session.
Thought I'd update whats going on with this, been slacking with the Vento since starting on the Bora but that happens ya know ;D
Had the certifier out some time ago to look over the car, being the first stage of our long journey to get this road legal.
Nothing needed changing for the cert but we need an autority card now for the cage and plastic windows which we are currently working on, when asked what was modified I replied - whats not modified is more appropriate :laugh:
After a good couple hours of looking and writing he said, hmmm your cert plate will be quite full :D
Ordered a H&R adjustable 25mm rear sway bar for it this afternoon to come in with the next lot of parts for the Bora to hopefully get us cornering a bit better, bring on some more track time.
So getting your $450 worth then?
$550 ;D
Phil recieved our autority card today ;D ;D ;D almost legal now!
Certifier can now finish off mod vehicle cert and then its WOF time,
I think you need to drive this thing more ;D
Once all legal Beebs it'll be driven often. >:D
Mod cert plate is on now so its just a matter of a WOF, 28mm rear swaybar is here so it looks like we're good to go for summer track fun! ;D
Quote from: 80 Vert on September 19, 2010, 02:34:19 PM
Mod cert plate is on now so its just a matter of a WOF, 28mm rear swaybar is here so it looks like we're good to go for summer track fun! ;D
quick lap coming up . . . . . ;)
Yeeehaaaaaaaaaaaa!
get some multiple camera's and make a lil video???
Don't know about this swaybar Filx, she's pretty big man :laugh:
28mm H&R rear bar, very very nicely made. Will be interesting to see what it makes of corners.
Got the cert plate on, not much space left there so better not modify anyting further :laugh:
Soooooooo I think it will be dyno time soon yes? Will get the wof in the next couple of weeks and Phil is going to hopefully tee up a dyno session at Torque ;D
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Whoa that's a big bit of bent metal - hopefully this thing will turn corners now. Going to have to watch the lift off oversteer.
Quote from: Filx on September 29, 2010, 08:35:30 PM
Whoa that's a big bit of bent metal - hopefully this thing will turn corners now. Going to have to watch get the timing right for the lift off oversteer.
guys when you set your eboost up what was the setting you dialled in on the actuator thread for setting it up?
External wastegate on the Vento Ballin so no threaded arm controlling the actuator (assuming that's what you're talking about). However it shouldn't matter what the base actuator boost setting is though (our w/g spring pressure is 1bar) as the boost controller will be set higher and therefore be bleeding signal away from the actuator.
Problems will only arise if the exhaust gas pressure is pushing/blowing the w/g open (restricting top end boost or poor boost response) or the w/g can't flow enough exhaust gas to regulate the boost pressure (causing over boost).
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Quote from: Filx on October 26, 2010, 10:50:49 AM
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230KW at the wheels? You would have to be happy with that Phil?
Ooops, saved the post before adding any comments. Will update later tonight when I've got a chance. Yep pretty happy with 230 fwkw at that 20psi level. Steady AF but a little on the lean side at 13:1 so we stopped there for this morning.
Next step is a data log and add in some fuel and then maybe an uprated DV as starting to get concerned about the stock DV being able to handle it.
Then back to the dyno to see if we can push on towards 250+ fwkw.
woah ill be happy with 154kw ATW with my mk3 :D ;D 8)
Its not nice standing next to you car when its doing 7500rpm :laugh:
Quote from: 80 Vert on October 26, 2010, 04:31:54 PM
Its not nice standing next to you car when its doing 7500rpm :laugh:
did you get a vid?
No sorry, no vids or pics really (got a pic on my iPhone but that doesn't really count). Will do vids when we go back to crank some proper numbers. ;D
:o :o proper numbers? what are you aiming for realistically?
Next target is 250+ fwkw, ultimate goal is 300fwkw. Today showed there is approx a 30 fwkw gain for each 5psi increase in boost. So we should crack the 250kw at 24-25psi, (or with more RPM but the motor isn't really built for increased RPM so we'll be pushing the boost up).
However I think somewhere in that range we'll start coming up against a choke point of some sort - be it throttle body size, inlet manifold flow, exhaust back pressure, or whatever. If that is the case then it will be a matter of finding that spot, backing off it a wee bit and then leaving it there until the next round of mods happen.
Funny thing is still how nice this car is to drive - I was stuck in start/stop rush hour traffic on the way to TP this morning and it's a doddle. Put some road seats and belts and a stereo in it and she'd be a perfectly fine daily driver.
That's roughly 360hp ATFW (308 + 10 / .88)
So yesterday (Friday) I had my eye on getting down to the Nightspeed opener at Meremere. As it was the first time at the strip for the Vento I had no real expectation - the goal for the evening was more to get a feel for what the car would need to be made suitable for a spot of drag racing from time to time if required.
Unfortunately a combination of rain in the morning, a cracking headache and the phone running hot had me convinced it wasn't going to happen. But by late afternoon with the weather looking better in town and a positive weather update from south of the Bombays (thanks Ballin, much appreciated) I fired off the last of the urgent emails, slammed the lid on the laptop and bolted for my car.
Running late by this stage I shot out west to John's shop to grab the Vento. The plan had been to put the track wheels on and cruise down but with time running out and the motorway looking terrible we just threw the wheels in the back and I got going with John coming down a litte later after closing up. Sure enough traffic was a nightmare, stop start all the way to Manukau and to make matters worse by the time I reached Takanini I realised I'd forgotten the slip on spacers needed for the race wheels to clear the calipers - aaaargh!!
Phoned John who was somewhere in traffic behind me so that was out. Phoned around a few other people I knew heading down and thankfully my friend Ryan had some slip on spacers that might work, downside was his ETA at the strip was 7pm :( Upshot was he was also packing a jack and an electric impact gun! Nice.
Anyway I finally got down there, cruised through scrutineering and parked up and waited for everyone to arrive. After talking to John and a few people and kicking around for 20-30 mins the itch to get into the action got the better of me and with a bit of nudge along from the boys I thought bugger it I'm going to run on the street tyres so lined up in the lanes.
Set the boost controller to low (15psi) and rolled into the staging area, built the revs to 3000 and rolled off the clutch as the last orange winked at me. Instant wheel spin, granny shift to 2nd, more wheel spin, granny shift to 3rd and the car bogged then as the boost created even more wheel spin. Grab 4th at about 2/3rds track distance to bust out a mighty 16.184@154km/h with a truly pathetic 2.7 60ft time. :laugh:
2nd run on street tyres was pretty much the same as above but with more feathering of the throttle to try and hook up. Result - a slightly less dismal
[email protected]/h, 60ft, 2.693. Hmmm, while it was all good fun frying the tyres it was time to park up and rethink it a bit. So I managed to track down my friend Ryan and grab the spacers, and with John and a bunch of helpers we had the track wheels with R888s on in a few minutes.
3rd run, still on low boost I launched at about 3500 revs and aaaargh, same instant wheels spin to rev limiter action. Another granny shift to 2nd and more wheel spin but I stayed in it a bit longer this time. Carefully pulled 3rd and feathered the throttle and by the magic of R compound rubber finally had some traction at about half track or so. Next issue then raised it's ugly head - I was hitting 7500 in 3rd with about 20-30m to go before the finish line. So I kicked it into neutral and coasted that last bit before the line. The result you ask? A hilarious 15.312@170km/h, so slower time but another 10km/h on the top speed. Hahhaaa, still crappy but the top end rush this car has was giving me a decent smile.
Pretty much had thought that would do it for me for the night as without better tyres and a few tweaks to the setup I wasn't going to achieve anything worthwhile. But the boys talked me into one run in the competition rounds and Ryan dropped the tyre pressure to 25psi (from the previous 32psi). So I lined up at the back of the C2 (2wd turbo) pack and hoped to at least not go against something too quick :D. Unfortunately just before it was my turn to stage there was an accident down the far end of the strip as an 11 sec Silvia lost control in the braking zone and engaged the armco at high speed with drastic results. Driver thankfully walked away, the car however was toast and it meant a 30-40 minute wait parked in the pre stage area while the crew cleaned up.
Eventually racing got under way again and I pulled up to the light - I had lost a bit of focus by this stage and forgot to switch to high boost (as had been the plan) plus had my worst r/t of the night when I really needed to be right on the light to have any chance of getting through against a pretty quick turbo Integra.
Launched again at 3500 and again had significant wheel spin in 1st and 2nd. 3rd however was a bit of a revelation as she finally hooked up and powered off. I kept it to the floor the whole way pulling just on 8000rpm over the line and though I lost to the 'teg it felt like a much more solid run. The slip revealed a better (but still terrible) 14.500@178km/h, 60 ft was better at 2.55 sec but still needs a lot of work.
So all in all a fun night, though not overly fruitful - nice to hit close to 180km/h on low boost! Next steps are check if the 16" Speedlines I've got will clear the brakes and then go on the hunt for some proper drag focused tyres. Oh and work on my crappy driving! :laugh:
Thats awesome!
I still feel pretty good with my time that i did in my auto 1.8 golf.........19.43 Hahahah........it was all for funback in 2008or9
Great write up, best and most important thing was it sounded like you had fun :D ;D
Can only get better hopefully next time I can join you!
T'was a good night Phil, we'll be better prepared next time :laugh: That car is capable of some good times!
Good on ya Phil. Whens the next time your hitting the strip?
I enjoyed the strip tales
good work
When you go to an event like that with a string of "nothing's falling into place" before you, I'm sure its hard to pull the best times your capable of.
Some hoosier westy rubber and more settled mind set, I bet you can go faster :D
Did you feel the benefit of the LSD? Any insight on how to stop the wheelspin? Is starting in 2nd an option?
Thanks boys - yeah the night was definitely heaps of fun! :laugh:
Quote from: AngleBox on November 07, 2010, 10:55:19 AM
Did you feel the benefit of the LSD? Any insight on how to stop the wheelspin? Is starting in 2nd an option?
Benefit of LSD is even though you've got wheel spin the car is pulling itself forward, otherwise you'd basically be stationary with one wheel stopped and one spinning like crazy. This car without an LSD would be pretty much a waste of time. With better tyres a bit of wheel spin is beneficial as you can keep the throttle wide open and the turbo on boost as you accelerate - the trick is getting the balance right.
For us the first steps towards better traction will just be the simple things like more focused drag tyres. Other easy mods would be to raise the rear a bit to shift weight over the front tyres and also run 0 deg camber so they're nice and flat. Another tip I was told was start with a little toe in, then gradually adjust out each run until your 60 ft times stop improving. The idea being you leave the line with tyres dead flat and straight ahead. You've got to be pretty serious and really consistent off the line though to be noticing the difference in a 1/4 of a degree of toe. Certainly I'm nowhere near that from a driver ability perspective!
Launching in 2nd is pretty common again for the serious guys, especially if your setup is capable of building good boost in neutral and you won't bog down. Unfortunately I have a little too much mechanical sympathy to do that so have never really tried it. :D
Other options for the Vento are to enable the launch control and no lift shift feature in Maestro. NLS would be good as it helps keep the turbo spooled between shifts and also as it cuts the engine it takes the load off the gearbox apparently making shifting faster - I had it on the Starlet using an MSD box and while it takes some serious discipline to stop taking your foot off the accelerator when you shift, it easily saves 2-3 tenths. Launch control would be good once we've got chassis/tyres set up consistently enough to be able to dial in the launch rpm accurately.
In regards to NLS, I suppose you're looking for 2-3 seconds not tenths >:D
Hahahha, tyres, suspension tweaks and better driving are the 2-3 seconds we're looking for hopefully. Then we can start chasing 10ths. Bearing in mind all those runs are low boost I'm really happy with trapping close to 180kph on 15psi. Better tyres and 20psi boost will be interesting >:D
Some pics my friend Shamil sent me.
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Any surprised comment when someone realises it missing 2 doors?
Hahahaa, nah - most of the crowd at Nightspeed wouldn't know it was a VW let alone missing some doors! We did however get quite a few interested onlookers and some "f_uk that's sick bro" type comments when we had the bonnet open in the pits. :laugh:
Yeah were those guys drunk or what? :laugh:
A real wolf in sheeps clothing 8) 8) Keep 'em guessing :laugh:
A sister car
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5061430-FS-98-Jetta-coupe-1.8t-mk2-flares-featured-in-pvw-CT&highlight=Jetta+coupe
i think i like the mk2 arches 8)
Yeah that red car would be a bargain at US$13K ono!
Got a bit of general maintenance work (oil change, etc) planned on the Vento. Also we've got some uprated strut top mounts going in as the factory ones are toast after the beating they've received.
Also sent our dyno results to Chris Tapp at Eurodyne - as is usual his response is fast and insightful. Interestingly his 630cc MAFless tune targets .8 Lambda (11.8:1) on full boost. His comment was possibly the tail pipe sniffer at Torque was faulty and giving an incorrect lean reading, or our wideband 02 sensor is playing up a bit making it run lean. With Maestro we'll do some data logging and compare AF requested to AF actual to help get to the bottom of the issue.
With how well the car runs and how much of a beating it's survived so far I put my faith in Mr VW's sensor and Mr Tapp to be right - but time will tell :)
sounds like good progress, is the vento going to be at the track in January?
Gave the Vento a little once over today in preparation for some summer track action (yep, including the 2nd Ballin).
I had done a bunch of research that indicated the stock DV was too small so I had purchased a Tial 50mm BOV a while back and John welded that sucker on. Nice - that should do the job ;)
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Then few other more mundane jobs, quick spanner check, sorted the leaky CV boot, oil change, etc. Checked the catch can for any blow by oil and oh what's this? A perfectly clean bung. Not a sceric of oil in the overflow tank - those rings must be holding up to the boost ok :)
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Oh and we fitted some new uprated strut top mounts. Here's the old ones on the strut seconds before getting binned. (BTW, plenty of thread left here Coons - at least 60mm ;) :laugh:)
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Test fitted one of the 16x8 Speedlines and they clear the brakes, plus perfect offset......... hmmmmmm what to do, what to do? Sell or retain them for wider track rubber? >:D
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Then out for a wee drive in the countryside. so with laptop plugged in and Maestro on screen we headed out to the back and beyond. Unfortunately the weather was monsoonish but we still managed a few 2nd. 3rd gear WOT pulls so plenty of data to work my way through tonight. Checked Block 31 as well in real time and looks like Mr Tapp was right - AF requested is 0.8 Lambda and AF Actual under full boost is bang on. Nice to know the car is performing as it should be. I'm starting to really love Maestro and Bosch wideband ECUs - just fantastic.
waaaAAAHPISH
Hahaaaa, here's the OLD ones :laugh: Yeah like 500km old!
Completely trashed in 500k, not a bad effort at all.
Those speedlines look pretty sharp in white, maybe don't sell them just yet.
Sniffer at Torque was obviously reading leaner than what the actual is, good to confirm that the car is running as it should.
i agree the wheels look very purposeful !
Agreed keepers for serious track rubber. May need powder coating though?
Quote from: spooln on December 19, 2010, 03:34:32 PM
Agreed keepers for serious track rubber. May need powder coating though?
Only if you do them in bright orange!
Those Speedlines look the business.... 8)
The speed lines look cool defo keep 8)
I don't think ive ever heard of a dyno shop that dosent seem to tell people there car runs lean at the top end.
If it was still rich no doubt it would scream even higher, thats why its the top end cause they run out of puff!
Did a little preventative maintenance work last night. John skimmed the front disks and we re-installed them, hopefully that will sort the vibration while we wait for some uprated DBA rotors to come over from Aus (thanks to James at Race Brakes). Also fitted new CV boot so no more CV grease getting flung out.
Entered the Puke Car Club Sprints next Wed night. Goal is a fun night out, stamp in the log book and to drive the car home. Though it will be interesting to see what she will do around Puke.
so the racing is tonight?
Yep! Just got a bunch few little things to get sorted and we're into it.
Quote from: Filx on February 02, 2011, 09:26:49 AM
Yep! Just got a bunch few little things to get sorted and we're into it.
Good luck tonight, let me know how it goes, just got my stuff back from MSNZ so prettyhappy but a little too late for this one ;D
Next One?
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Hahaaaa, changed the wheels again Filx? you wheel whore you ;D
Did she go well?
^ Drove there, raced, drove home - never missed a beat, didn't even check the oil. Awesome!
Quote from: 80 Vert on February 04, 2011, 09:17:23 AM
Hahaaaa, changed the wheels again Filx? you wheel whore you ;D
New combo soon ;)
does having the 'roof spoiler' open help with downforce? ;) good shots though.
Roof spoiler is primo - everyone should get one! :P
Beats aircon too.
Just had a quick glance at the results from the sprints - http://www.pukekohecarclub.co.nz/results/2011/2011_02_02_DualSprint_Overall.pdf (http://www.pukekohecarclub.co.nz/results/2011/2011_02_02_DualSprint_Overall.pdf)
I'm pretty happy with a best lap of 73.35 sec considering this is mostly achieved through brute force, rather than any driver finesse - so quite a lot of room for improvement.
It will be interesting to see if I can find some time with a bit more boost and brave pills. We are also swapping from 205/40/17 R888s to 215/45/16 RE11s in the hunt for a better all around comprimise street and track tyre solution. Time will tell if that is a good idea or not. :)
You dropped 5 seconds in 9 laps with only 6 being flying. Well done.
thats a good time filx!
Thanks guys - I would like to know if that lap time was using 3rd through the sweeper or 2nd as I did both in that last session. Though I think with the taller tyres I'll be in 2nd gear anyway so maybe a bit of a moot point in the end.
Next Sprint round is the 2nd of March so I'm keen to enter and see if I can find some more speed.
Thats easy, just turn the wick up! ;D
Quote from: Filx on February 10, 2011, 10:05:43 PM
Next Sprint round is the 2nd of March so I'm keen to enter and see if I can find some more speed.
Don't close your eyes every time you go round the corner and leave the prayer beads at home.
Quote from: 80 Vert on February 10, 2011, 10:21:25 PM
Thats easy, just turn the wick up! ;D
>:D
Teaser for next time out - I love new tyres.
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You love new tyres :o? add to that wheels................ ;D
those speedlines are the bizz filx! 8)
You neglected to powder coat them carbon coloured or orange ;D
Those colours would give away that fact that I jumped in the back of the car with them and got all over it like geek on bubble wrap! Oooooooyyy I love fresh rubber >:D
Quote from: choppy16v on February 11, 2011, 09:01:54 PM
those speedlines are the bizz filx! 8)
Thanks Chops - can't wait to see them on the car!
Headed out to Johns shop this morning to do a bit of work on the Vento after feedback from the scrutineer at the last Sprints. Nothing major, some battery straps, covers on battery clamps, etc. Also fitted up the Speedlines - apologies for the crappy pics! Not much room where she's parked and discovered later there's a smudge on the lens :P
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So bring on Round 2 of the Sprints on Wed afternoon. I can't wait!
That looks tough az!
yeah white on white is f#%*en ross 8)
Not the usual thing you see, wasn't sure about white on white but that looks great.
Drool...
Phil, you are not allowed to put any other rims on! Love it!
Cheers boys - we're really happy with how they came out. We would really need to dial the suspension down a bit if it was all about the "look" but the current ride height seems to work well on track. I might take the front down slightly to try and get a bit more traction though.
John made the call however - with the wider, taller tyre it's adopted this kind of "tough" street dragger type look. Starting to look like it means business (if I do say so myself :))
So now we'll see how she goes on Wed 8) Can I chase down a 1:10 and beat all the Hondas? (Or more importantly can I beat the Anglebox Anglia? :P)
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaadddd!!!!
Just heard a rumour Steve Millen will be at the PCC Sprints with the Ford GT on Wed :o - bags not be in his group!
Quote from: Filx on February 28, 2011, 12:34:27 PM
Just heard a rumour Steve Millen will be at the PCC Sprints with the Ford GT on Wed :o - bags not be in his group!
Is he the guy with the r35 stillen GTR?
If it is dont bother aye :laugh:
Yep - with this car. Actually on second thoughts I'd be pretty keen to be in the same group. How often would you get an opportunity to be on track with Steve Millen!?!?! 8)
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http://www.classiccar.co.nz/news-7900/steve-millen-and-ford-gt-set-to-dominate-nz-targa (http://www.classiccar.co.nz/news-7900/steve-millen-and-ford-gt-set-to-dominate-nz-targa)
Or this????
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It's only a rumour but supposedly in the Ford GT on Wed. Time will tell I guess.
Well Steve Millen was there, yep I was in his group and yes that GT40 sounds insane and goes just about as well. Not really GT40 weather though, or FWD turbo weather either for that matter. In fact I would say I had the worst platform out there for getting the power down --> a big, laggy turbo FWD! So did I have fun? You BETCHA! >:D
The RE11s seemed really good but as I never drove the R888s in the rain I can't really compare. I still had to turn the car very gently or it would understeer and it was basically pointless trying to rev the car in 2nd and 3rd gears so I just lugged it in the mid part of the rev range which helped tame the wheelspin. Also I just ran it on wastegate pressure (around 11psi) to take some of the speed out of it as it was pretty scary down the chute at over 200km/h with the amount of water on track.
Anyway here's a quick vid from the last session of the evening - one of the cars ahead of me had spun so we reformed on the grid. That's "TARGAZ" in front of me, the V8 240Z - phwoooar that things is awesome!
Anyway I apologise the video is terrible - I didn't bring a camera so taped my iPhone to the camera mount on the dash. And yes shot in portrait (sorry) as that was the only way I could film anything aside from the dash! Hhahahaa. However I'm sure it gives you the idea. (Please note first 40 odd seconds and last 3 mins are boring bits). Hope you enjoy :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaBE_bk3GsY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaBE_bk3GsY)
Looks good bud, wheelspin central! ;D
It was good to catch up (albeit briefly). The car looked great on the track and is beautifully presented. Shame about the rain as it would have been good to see both your VW and the GT40 going flat out.
Thanks mate - nothing on track sounded better than the Anglia over the hill with the engine screaming and gearset howling! Yep had it been dry I was planning on running 20psi and getting a bit more stuck in to it under brakes etc. There's always next time though.
You didn't have the good fortune of hearing the GT40. Very, very nice.
Just had a quick look at the results from Wed. Really happy with 4th fastest time of the day even though it was 11 seconds a lap slower than the dry lap time.
http://www.pukekohecarclub.co.nz/results/2011/2011_03_02_Multi_Car_Sprints_Overall.pdf (http://www.pukekohecarclub.co.nz/results/2011/2011_03_02_Multi_Car_Sprints_Overall.pdf)
Funny that they rank the GT40 as a class D.
the BOV is awesome! Great to see you putting the car to work Phil
Cheers Ty.
A couple of slightly better pics before parking her up again until the next time. Probably have a crack at the last round of the Nightspeed drags in a few weeks. Though not at all "drag" tyres I'm interested to see if the RE11s will help us get off the line better.
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That sh#t is the sh#t right there! 8)
good work mate! its always nice to see them doing what they were built for. 8)
Big ups to member Nick who dropped off a custom built strut brace for the Vento, he made it wider and longer to clear a couple of non std items in the engine bay.
He's left it as components for us and made beefier attachment plates which I wanted.
Once I get some time I'll place it where we want and final weld it, awesome piece of kit!
Can't beat CNC!
Now working on a custom one for the other coupe! 8)
Just thought I'd do a quick note on the dyno day (I totally forgot to take any pics). As the Vento is parked with the battery off the boost controller had lost it's settings. As John and I had discussed targetting 25psi as the next step this was obviously not a good thing (for the record though the SP1 value is 44 for ~15psi and SP2 is 64 for ~25psi).
So as anyone that was around last Saturday will remember the day dawned wet and misty. I left home early, tootled down to the petrol station and threw in $50 of 98 (seemingly about 5 litres worth at today's petrol prices :P). And then cruised through the park and down Lower Domain drive (marvelling at the grip of the RE11s. You don't notice it until you drive them on the street - even stone cold, on a wet day the cornering grip is amazing).
My thought was to do a couple of quick pulls up the almost deserted Stanley St on ramp to set the boost controller for 25psi. Luckily the Eboost Street has a peak hold function so you can keep your eyes on what's important ;). Even then it was a bit of an exercise in futility as the car would break traction in 3rd and 4th gear in the wet. Again the car is very benign, no scary torque steer or other craziness - just incredible acceleration until the power overcomes the tyres, then it's just a matter of feathering the throttle to try and control it a bit. But at that stage I figured I wasn't going to achieve anything accurate so I'd just get the Torque guys to do it on the dyno.
Arriving at Torque it was great to see a big line up of VAG cars. I kind of bumped myself to the back of the pack as I wasn't sure how the car would go so didn't want to waste anyones time. Watching the other cars run is always interesting - seeing Le Mans' RS4 punch out 266kw atw was the highlight though. When the Vento's slot arrived I explained to the TP guy driving about the boost controller settings. He asked what my target boost was, I said 25psi and he smiled and said that was no worries.
I can't remember what the first low boost run was, but on the second run it punched out around 242kw. The TP guys called me over and commented that was on 22psi and just to confirm if I wanted to go to 25? Hell yes was my immediate answer. Stepping back I slightly nervously stared at the computer screen as they wound her up. And then wow - as the boost hit the graph nearly went vertical until 259kw flashed up! Woohooo - I was definitely happy with that number.
However there's still some room for improvement and we're not quite at our goal of 400whp. Talking to vert yesterday we'll make some decisions on what to do next but there's some ideas floating around. Integrated Engineering are bringing some killer cam combos out apparently so that is definitely an option.
In the mean time we'll probably take the car for a skid at the drags on the 8th of April and lean on her a bit harder than last time. Should be fun! 8)
Just turn the boost up and 400whp will come your way.
Great result guys, I would say result of the day!! ;D
Can you put a graph up to show how it comes on song on a lowly 1800cc?
Thats a lot of power. Fun.
What would the max boost be about? Isnt the Dahlback golf 39 or something?
Quote from: M on March 28, 2011, 09:43:08 PM
Just turn the boost up and 400whp will come your way.
Great result guys, I would say result of the day!! ;D
Can you put a graph up to show how it comes on song on a lowly 1800cc?
Thanks M, that top bloke Ranton has the print out of the run and I'm sure will post it up on the Dyno results thread when he gets a chance. I haven't actually eyeballed it myself as yet as I had to rush off after the run to get home to relieve my wife of toddler duties.
Quote from: BB on March 29, 2011, 11:02:00 AM
Thats a lot of power. Fun.
What would the max boost be about? Isnt the Dahlback golf 39 or something?
Max useful boost is probably around 30psi as far as I aware before you start running too far out of turbo efficiency. We might have a go at that next time, maybe with a bit of race gas in the tank for a helping hand. I think that is starting to get the near the limit for stock pistons as well so keen to get a bit more use out of the car before then - just in case ;)
Quote from: BB on March 29, 2011, 11:02:00 AM
Thats a lot of power. Fun.
What would the max boost be about? Isnt the Dahlback golf 39 or something?
Ive seen some drag car running 35-40 lbs, but like one of the other guys said 30lb would be the max. 25 is generally considered the best safe max option from what Ive seen
awesome car mate well done! 8)
Wow impressive numbers Phil
Can't wait to see this beasty go at Mere Mere
8)
Shame draging is about grip as well as power ;D
But Im sure Flix knows the best tricks to get as much of that as possible from a massively overpowered front driver >:D >:D
All that power coming on must make it a bit difficult to accelerate out of corners on the track tho?
Is it hard to manhandle Flix? Can you get a good flow on? Or you just blast past on any straight and cruise through the corners.
Yeah traction will be a problem at the drags, proper drag focussed tyres are ideal, but we'll just run the RE11s and see how we go. Just going for a bit of fun again anyway.
At the track she's very easy to drive - but I just cruise around and don't take it all too seriously. Driving the car is exactly like any other FWD car just need to watch the throttle application through and out of corners in the 2nd and 3rd gear. The LSD makes a huge difference as you get very predictable traction loss (none of this torque steery, single spinner action). Basically (IMHO) FWD with no LSD sucks even with 100HP.
Yea I want a LSD.
Quote from: Filx on March 30, 2011, 12:12:47 PMBasically (IMHO) FWD with no LSD sucks even with 100HP.
Find this quote to be quite true, thought I'd have no problems in my Mk3 GTI around Taupo since everyone bottles on about overweight & underpowered but still had trouble exiting the corner as cleanly as I would've liked. LSD would definitely make an improvement.
You taking the Vento to the nationals drags?
Nobody I know has ever regretted spending the money on an LSD (certainly if any track driving is involved, drags or circuit).
We will be at the Nationals drags as well (barring any unforseen issues), would love to have a crack at a few of the fast aircooleds but it will depend on how much traction we can get.
The aircooled get so much grip.
What's your boost threshold Filx? Just out of interest. >:D
Not too sure - have read various stuff in the net with regards to what is achievable on a basically stock motor with GT3071R. People seem to run 30psi and engines survive, but I'd be willing to bet the ones that don't aren't posting up about it. 25psi is right on the efficiency zone for the turbo as I understand it so it's a nice space to be in for the moment.
Quite seriously - the car is very lively at 20psi, let alone 25psi. Early on we set a goal of 400HP for the car and we've achieved that. Now we'd like to push on to see if we can crack 300kW (400HP) atw. But based on our ~30kw atw per 5psi of boost increase I don't think we'll get there on boost pressure alone without seriously risking lunching the engine. So maybe cams + intake mani + larger throttle body are the next logical step.
But for the moment we'll get some more enjoyment out of the car and see what happens from there :)
I think you should lunch it ;)
Thats the way all you power boys go in the end >:D
You met your goal. Just run it and enjoy it - if you want to push mad horsepower, do it in the turbo R32. Just my 2 cents you didn't ask for :)
Sorry by boost threshold I meant what most refer to as "Lag" i.e. where you come on boost. ;D
Lag is technically the time it takes to come back on boost after a gear change. Boost threshold is where you start building boost in the rev range.
But interesting answer all the same. ;D
Isnt that what the blow off valve is for? To keep the turbo spinning and keep the boost up between gear shifts?
And the bigger the turbo the more lag so they will have boost at around 3500 or even 4000 onwards?
But they shouldnt have to wait between gear shifts just for it to boost the first time?
No the blow off valve prevents the compressor from stalling, this is where the throttle is closed and the air the turbo is pushing backs up and basically "bounces" back to the compressor blades and in doing so causes the shaft to stall very quickly. Which as I am sure you can imagine is not good for it. A plus of the re-circulation valve is that it also allows the shaft to continue spinning yes however the throttle is still shut so there is no exhaust gasses spinning the turbine wheel and the charge air is just going round in a circle, this is not enough to retain boost no. There is still a slight spot where the turbo has to spool again. You need anti lag for that.
That's where a flat shift box like the ones I am selling helps. It allows you to keep the throttle body fully opened during shifts so the engine is still pumping air at least.
What I am asking Filx is from say 2000rpm full throttle when does he start creating boost and when is he on full boost, to compare to other setups.
I fully understand that a bigger turbo means more lag(coming back on boost) and a higher boost threshold(initial spool up that most refer to as "lag"), however it also means it doesn't run out of puff at the top end. It is basically the same thing as a set of racing camshafts, they may come on song at 4000 rpm and rev to 7500 rpm or they come on song at 5000 rpm and remain at 8500 rpm. As long as the engine is built to make use of the airflow you still have the same useable rev range of 3500rpm. ;) :D
Drags last night was interesting - for some reason I really wasn't feeling it, fun night and all that but yeah - one of those times you're struggling to pull it all together. E.g. I had a bunch of crappy reaction times right through qualifying.
The RE11s seemed to have more grip in 3rd gear than the R888s and my best 60 ft was fractionally better than last time, but even then a 2.546 sec isn't great (still hampered by wheelspin and poor launch technique). Ideally the car would be closer to 2.0-2.1 range and it definitely shows (again) without some dedicated drag tyres and improved driving from me the car is not going to go anywhere near it's full potential.
So best run of the night was my 3rd qualifying run, a 14.085 @176.24 km/h. Then annoyingly I lost in the first round of eliminations to 300ZX after pulling my focus together to jump off the line with .294 reaction (versus his .523), only to chuck it away by overdoing the throttle and wheel spinning to a lousy 2.7 sec 60ft. That meant he got to half track in 9.6 sec versus my 10.2. From there I was hauling him in but just ran out of track with a 14.7 @ 176 versus his 14.5 @ 165. So after that I chucked it in for the night and headed back home.
I did a 15.00 in my bucket and that was on 32psi street tyres Flix and the first time ever at the drags.
Get you crap together :laugh: :laugh:
Im sure I can do a 14 at the Nationals or is that a lot differnt than a 15?
I'll eat my shoe if you do a 15 flat in your ABF ;D
15 or 14 sec quarter mile, i would like to do that.
Hhaha, thanks BB :laugh:, yeah I need to get some mongrel. It's much easier to drive a low powered car to it's potential at the drags than this thing. Don't forget it's still not really drag focussed at all. We'll be back eventually with some decent drag tyres.........
Or maybe back with something that puts power to a few more wheels ;)
Quote from: Filx on April 15, 2011, 09:29:58 PM
Or maybe back with something that puts power to a few more wheels ;)
Yes get that coupe quattro done
Quote from: 80 Vert on April 15, 2011, 08:48:22 PM
I'll eat my shoe if you do a 15 flat in your ABF ;D
I did do a flat 15.00. Im sure it was that.
Ill have to do better at the nationals and serve you a shoe sandwich.
I have done a 14.91s 1/4 in a 1.6 16v Peugeot 106 GTi, had a Peugeot Sport exhaust and air filter kit only. Still had full leather interior. So I would hope BB could do a 15s flat with a mighty ABF engine in a flyweight MK1. :P ;D
Done a 13.9s at 107mph in our old 230bhp at wheels 1.6 16v Supercharged Citroen Saxo in UK too. No diff, twin plate clutch that was an arse to launch and road tyres.
I am sure with your terminal speed Phil there is a good time to come in the Vento. ;D
Quote from: BB on April 15, 2011, 10:07:37 PM
I did do a flat 15.00. Im sure it was that.
Ill have to do better at the nationals and serve you a shoe sandwich.
I always prefer a nice wingtip when I put my foot in my mouth :laugh: >:D
Quote from: qta4 on April 15, 2011, 09:07:12 PM
15 or 14 sec quarter mile, i would like to do that.
Noel, your car would go in the 12s
easy with the right tyres.
I dont know, i feel that acceleration from 30ks upward would be satisfactory, in fact quite impressive.
Its just the wheel spin at start that stuffs it up.
Surely you will be bringing your car to the drags Noel?
I went for a rip in this thing yesterday - forgot to say huge thanks John!! This car is hard to describe, but in a nutshell it's an absolutely mental beast with no remorse! When it's boosting... IT'S F*CKING BOOSTING!!! So much fun on four wheels.
are you sure you wanna go 24V VR6?? ;)
Yeah, love the smoooooove driveable power of the 24v and the SOUND!!! It's just gonna be a nice road car, don't want huge power like this BEAST!
Huge boost is fun. But a little on and off.
I think the 24v VR6 tho a little heavy >:D will be a very nice ride.
Dyno day vid - thanks to Ranton!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTbcCc7M6as (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTbcCc7M6as)
Quote from: Filx on April 16, 2011, 07:44:17 PM
Noel, your car would go in the 12s easy with the right tyres.
Doubt that, but wont try it.
Too scared to break something.
Quote from: qta4 on June 22, 2011, 07:33:43 PM
Doubt that, but wont try it.
Too scared to break something.
I would be very surprised and impressed if Noels car in its road driveable/Targa form would get to the 12s.
Given that the majority of 4-500hp daily driver evos are only just getting to low 12s high 11s. Admittedly there may be some out there that are faster.
Also a 599GTB ferrari with 600 hp and launch control will also only hit the mid to low 12s, though it is nearly twice the weight of Noels car
Yeah some people talk about laying down times like its easy, first time I got on the track in my Mk3 GTI fastest (recorded) I got was 16.98, pretty sure I may have got faster later on in the day though during the fun runs as I got more used to the car.
First of all that sounds amazing in that video ;D
Second of all, yes a 12s 1/4 is SERIOUSLY quick. No idea if Noel's car could do it or not as I don't know enough about it. ;D
Daily driver Evos would weigh 300kg+ more than Noels car (and I did say 12s with the right tyres).
Exotics like Ferraris always suck at the drags from what I have seen over the years (except usually Porsches) as they never get off the line well even with all their supposed electronic wizadry. Horses for courses though, I'd love to test a 599 from a 50km/h rolling start >:D
Quote from: vwrally on June 22, 2011, 09:05:07 PM
I would be very surprised and impressed if Noels car in its road driveable/Targa form would get to the 12s.
Given that the majority of 4-500hp daily driver evos are only just getting to low 12s high 11s. Admittedly there may be some out there that are faster.
Also a 599GTB ferrari with 600 hp and launch control will also only hit the mid to low 12s, though it is nearly twice the weight of Noels car
Quote from: Filx on June 22, 2011, 07:11:32 PM
Dyno day vid - thanks to Ranton!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTbcCc7M6as (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTbcCc7M6as)
Been waiting to see that as I couldn't be there, sounds soo angry >:D
I'm sure there's some better numbers still to come once we get the new cams in there eh Filx? ;D
Shhhhh >:D
Making some plans right now to give the neglected Vento some love, about to order a few parts so that we are prepared for our to do list thats been floating around for a couple of years now.
A few things I'm not 100% happy with and lessons learnt over the years will make the Vento better still, its just been so dead reliable that we just haven't felt the need to change anything right away but a few improvements are on the cards over the Xmas hollidays.
^ Parts collection for this is underway. Entered the GTR Elite Track day at Taupo on the 30th of Jan - copied the entry list from their forum below. Will be interesting to see how the she goes against this type of machinery - I think we'll need to bring our A game!!!! >:D
Quote
0) Simon BNR32 *
1) RH9 BNR32 *
2) Shell *
3) Patrick JZA80 *
4) Wendy Golf GTi *
5) Nick BCNR33 *
6) AJ EG6R *
7) Chris DC2R *
8) Edward Pinkham BNR32 *
9) Coryn JZA80
10) Nova S13 *
12) Mungyz Z32 *
13) Max BNR32
14) Mark BCNR33
15) Dayne S14 "
16) Ben Illegal 400kw race car"
17) Nick GC8 *
18) Alex RPS13 *
19) Dave n Pete JZA80
20) Richard S15
21) Reuben S14 *
22) Shaun S14 *
23) Ryan S14 *
24) Gary GC8 *
25) Brendan EK9 *
26) James BNR34 *
27) Andrew Tarr S14 *
28) George BNR32 *
29) Andrew Loader JZA80 *
30) Big Phil E30
31) Ebrahim BNR34
32) Cam RPS13 *
33) Jimmy MPS Mazda 3 *
34) Phil VW *
35) Reith JZA80 *
36) Simon 25t *
37) Albert Evo 3 *
38) Rob DB8R *
39) Shamil JZA80 *
40) Jamie RPS13
41) Jono AE86 turbo *
42) Dave BNR32
43) Adam BCNR33
44) James GC8
45) Emil BCNR33 *
46) Shaun HCR32 *
47) Stu BNR34 *
48) Stu BNR32 *
49) Larry EG6 *
50) David STi GR8 *
51) Warwick RVR *
52) Yuji So S15 *
53) Yuji So S15 *
54) Florin JZA80 *
55) Arnold CL1 "
56) Luke JZA80 *
Most of the parts have arrived. Going to try some EBC Yellow stuff pads this time around. No DBA rotors in stock for ages so just use OEM ones for the moment. Big thanks to Simon at Giltraps for helping us out with a bunch of parts inclouding the rotors!
So here's the work list as it stands for the summer freshen up
Pull the engine
Powdercoat all the engine bay piping and oil catch tank in crinkle finish black
Baffle the sump
Change oil temp sensor location to the sump
Install strut brace (we'll need to make out own as unfortunately the cool one Nick made doesn't fit due to location of wastegate)
Re-do turbo moutning with studs and copper nuts
Install EGT and Oil Temp guages to the steering column for better visibility
Install front tow hooks
Change the rear wheel bearings
Change front rotors and brake pads
Our target is to have it all done and back together by the 13th of Jan for the Playday Twilight Session at HD! Bring on the holidays >:D
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=128280767204608&set=pu.128271400538878&type=1
Why no engine? Because track car! :laugh:
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Anyway day one down - rear wheel bearings done, new front rotors on, new brake pads in, engine out and custom vert strut brace = done. Phew - day off tomorrow then back into it on Friday.
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Hey get your chains off my engine! Your one is a bit further out of shot :P
I bet vert wasn't impressed with the brake fluid on the ground either haha
Couldn't quite believe the heat damage to the exhaust wrap and the big gaping hole burnt in the steering shaft boot :(
Also managed to melt a fair bit of the cam cover, actually the plastic kinda ran like a waterfall ;D
Guess thats the downside of boost at extended WOT on the track, still its not bad considering its been together for quite a few years and hammered.
Hahaaaa Sammy, you're not wrong!
Brake fluid, coolant and power steering oil on the floor all at the same time ::)
Quick update from last Friday - with the engine out it we dropped the sump to get underway with the baffling. John pulled all the turbo and piepwork off the back to replace the gaskets, do stud/nut conversion, camblt change and re heat wrap the pipes (the old heat wrap was toast, literally just crumbled and fell away in your hands!!).
As often happens everything took more time than expected and we also ended up needing a few small parts we hadn't factored on which meant a couple of trips to Alltech in Wairau Rd. So in the end we managed to get all the back of the engine back together, but no work on the sump as yet. I thought it was a damn good effort considering but visually it doesn't look like much - still a picture speaks a thousand words. Note the lock tabs on the nuts - given ANY work needed back here is an engine out job we're not taking any chances! 8)
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Good specced up motor indeed, but can i ask though why the reducer on the inlet to the turbo?
3" inlet pipe is much easier to fit and what we had at the time. Might change to a 4" inlet at some stage but it won't make diddly squat difference in the current guise.
Finished up the baffled oil pan today, been a bit of an effort really and more work than expected.
When I first looked at it I thought yeah we'll knock that out in a day...........WRONG ::)
Took ages to make the templates for all the pieces and trial fitting the pan after each piece was tacked in place to make sure things were still going to fit back on.................yup plenty of F words used throughout the process but hey its done and back on..........
Also mounted the oil temp and exhaust temp gauge on the colum in one of those New South gauge pods as its much easier to keep an eye on them that way so I'm quite curious to see how they work out.
Also moved the oil temp sender to the oil pan to hopefully get more stable temp readings as before they were up and down like a yoyo being in the sandwich plate for the cooler.
A couple of pics of the sump and engine back in, because we all know "pics or it didn't happen!" :laugh:
The sump was a bucket load of work in the end as John said - very tricky with loads of trial fitting and testing and mucking around and looked very difficult to weld in those tight spots. Maybe not the prettiest but should do the job.
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So here's where we lef tit late on Friday. Probably another days work to get it all fully back together.
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Going to aim to have a few hundred kms on it to bed the brakes bedded in and then hit the HD twilight session on Friday 13th for a proper thrashing! Then bring on the 30th at Taupo!!!!!!!! Yeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa >:D
Did the last few bits on this yesterday, this freshen up has been one of those times where EVERYTHING fought us...........the engine going back right down to the exhaust and intercooler piping not fitting anymore >:(
In the end its all back together and running so we took it for a drive this arvo only to pull up at the cafe to have smoke billow out from under the bonnet, a quick inspection revealed a pretty big oil leak from under the turbo (suspected the oil return line) which was dripping oil on to the downpipe.
Pretty lucky the engine wasn't all that hot yet so didn't catch alight but thought it better to have it towed back to work................ >:( >:( >:( fricken CARS!!!! >:D
Once back at work and on the hoist it appeared that it was indeed the return line at fault, removed it and sure enough it had sprung a leak right at the turbo!
Last ditch effort tomorrow to get it back on and running again for the twilight meet on Friday.
Alignment done, brakes bedded in, fuel in the tank - HD here we come!!!
Anyone that wants to come for a ride bring some cotton overalls and a helmet >:D
How did it go at the track last night?
Disappointing I think is a fair summary, especially given the mammoth effort that went into getting it ready. Basically the new brakes were rubbish. Not exactly sure why - we're using new OEM S3 rotors, EBC Yellow Stuff (all bedded in correctly, etc) and RBF600 fluid.
First session Darren drove the car and had no pedal after 3 laps. I went out a few sessions later and nursed it around but it was gut wrenching chasing cars up the hill only to have to pump the brakes up 50m before I normally would even tap them to check the pedal. Really erodes your confidence and hence the fun factor disappears.
On the positive sides the car is running beautifully and hauls in a straight line as always - but a solution to the brake issue is top of the list currently. One of the Porsche guys rubbished Yellow Stuff and suggested Hawk Blues - so 80vert and I are kicking around a set of those, ducting and different fluid (the new RBF660 maybe?) or something bigger but that would mean new wheels/tyres as well so :-\
The last track day I went to 18 months ago I ran Pagid RS29 yellows and they performed well. They are pricey though. Got them from racebrakes.
Lack of pedal is due to the fluid boiling. The fluid boils from friction, so the pads must be gripping well. They are just getting too hot.
I suggest more cooling and maybe a different braking style?
I brake hard for a very short time. 2 quick pumps then hard on for as short a time as possible.
My mk1 only has standard front mk1 brakes and pads and the rear brakes are completely cut off, obviously its not as fast as the vento but I never seem to have any issue with pedal feel.
Thanks guys - I agree BB but when you go from getting 6-8 laps before fade to 1-3 laps something else also isn't working as well.
What fluid were you running previously?
On my race car in Scotland we changed to a "race" fluid during a brake overhaul one season after running "standard" fluid fine for a good time. The race fluid was doing exactly what you are saying here. 3 hard laps and the pedal went to the floor at the hairpin. Took it off track, bleed brakes again, go back out and history repeats. This went on all weekend, we were trying everyones different ideas on how to bleed a braking system!!
Put old fluid back in and never had a problem again. I run standard VW/Audi fluid now in all my cars, it is the same as Porsche fluid(as far as I could ever tell from specs etc) and if it's good enough for a GT3RS...... ;)
It might not be your issue but worth a try. ;D
Thanks M (and all) for their input - much appreciated. We have only ever used the RBF600 so that is consistent - the only difference is new rotors and new pads.
The thing I also noticed was the lack of initial bite compared to the previous pads. Possibly I didn't bed them in correctly but I had done 350-400kms of normal driving with a few consecutive hard stops the night before the track day which was how I understood the instructions.
John and I are already talking about what next - not sure if there will be a full solution before Taupo on the 30th but we'll see what happens. 8)
A few quick pics for clicks 8)
Updated engine bay with strut brace, black piping, beanie etc - looks heaps better IMHO.
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Current view of the dashboard - Oil temp and EGT on the column - boost and oil pressure in the centre console. Not sure what to fill the 3rd hole with - John suggested a voltmeter for lolz! :laugh:
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And a couple of pics for the hell of it after I cleaned the car - grasstastic!
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My pick would be pads. If they're not up to the task then they'll take longer to stop the car, the more pressure you'll apply to the pedal, and hence more heat and therefore compounding the problem. Very much doubt the fluid you use is the problem.
Also, HD is very hard on brakes. Consider you may also be driving the car harder than previous times. I never had fade when I started out racing, but it became an issue as I got faster.
Bummer about the brakes; really surprised as I have used a set of these during the 6 hour and they lasted no problems.
In most cases the lack of pedal is a result of the brake fluid boiling as BB said. Other suspects can be faulty master cylinder or a leak in either the caliper or brake lines. Have the rotors or pads glazed up? This can happen if the rotors were new as well. If possible, pads should be bedded on used but not worn out brake discs.
I was a bit mnore aggressive on bedding and it was always at the track.
1.) First get some heat in the brake discs and pads.
4 to 6 stops with medium brake pressure from approximately 150 km/h to approximately 80 km/h.
Distance between each brake stop approximately 300 - 400 meters.
The pads should not reach temperatures above 400? Centigrade.
No dragging (pedal on or off)!
2.) Then Simulating race conditions
One stop with medium to heavy brake pressure, without allowing brakes to lock (or ABS engaging) from approximately 180 km/h to approximately 80 km/h.
No dragging!
Recovery stops with light brake pressure 3 to 4 times. (for cleaning)
Repeat the high-speed stops including recovery stops 2 to 3 times.
Allow a cool-off distance of approximately 500 m between high-speed stops.
Allow to cool in pits with no handbrake on and push car forward every 20 secs
Just changing the subject for a minute, what egt's do you see at full chat up the main straight?
Thanks boys - all good advice and I appreciate the input.
Quote from: le mans on January 16, 2012, 08:21:22 AM
Just changing the subject for a minute, what egt's do you see at full chat up the main straight?
Maxes out at 1400F (760C) but was only running very mild boost (16psi) - it'll be interesting to see how that changes with more boost. Still, that was enough power to hang on to the back of a 996T up the hill :)
Absolutely amazing day at Taupo today playing with the Japanese tuner boys (some very quick cars in attendance as well). The old Vento got a few sideways glances. Taupo is such a great track, we had the full track which is so long and flowing. Doesn't seem as technical as HD but is a heap of fun - and the back straight is insane! >:D
It does suit cars with good grip and handling rather than power though which doesn't really play to the Vento's strengths, but the huge grin factor easily made up for that. Still had problems with the brakes cooking fairly quickly however it was just a matter of being a little cautious on braking points and not running a whole heap of boost to keep the speeds down a bit.
Odd man out :laugh:
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(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2Fth_TaupoTrackdayJan201200918.jpg&hash=27aaff7e7036cdd962181eb489ed935eb7b705a4) (http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e138/turbo_phil/Dubshack%20Project%2009/?action=view¤t=TaupoTrackdayJan201200918.jpg)(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2Fth_TaupoTrackdayJan201200914.jpg&hash=56b7c81233e730481d45f903e9f17d821b0315d9) (http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e138/turbo_phil/Dubshack%20Project%2009/?action=view¤t=TaupoTrackdayJan201200914.jpg)(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2Fth_TaupoTrackdayJan201200915.jpg&hash=49519211094bd0819d5d8754d8b0bcab658d4ba5) (http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e138/turbo_phil/Dubshack%20Project%2009/?action=view¤t=TaupoTrackdayJan201200915.jpg)(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2Fth_TaupoTrackdayJan201200916.jpg&hash=f146b508a13bb96d35261c93823ac080de3f5690) (http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e138/turbo_phil/Dubshack%20Project%2009/?action=view¤t=TaupoTrackdayJan201200916.jpg)(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2Fth_TaupoTrackdayJan201200917.jpg&hash=20df4f77fd5990c67f901acd0fcfeee0de32d9b3) (http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e138/turbo_phil/Dubshack%20Project%2009/?action=view¤t=TaupoTrackdayJan201200917.jpg)
jealous ! what sort of times on full track? did you pass hondas? >:D
I didn't capture any times, I thought I had a session logged on Harry's Laptimer on the iPhone but for some reason I it didn't gather any data (I need to read up on what I was doing incorrectly). And sadly I didn't pass any Hondas, didn't really pass anyone all day actually >:D.
But damn I had the most fun I've had in ages - car is running like a gem (aside from the brakes which is a known issue at present). Drove down Sunday, day at the track on Monday and drove home and the only thing I did was check the wheel nut torque and add fuel.
Will post some video when I gt a chance though not sure if it is overly interesting.
May I suggest the third gauge hole be filled with an ar$ehole pucker meter? :P Even a print out of one just stuck on there would be a laugh.
hahaha, sounds good. I've actually got a little idea in mind for that missing gauge - will update if it comes together.
Hi mate as long as you had fun that is most important.
The pics don't do justace to you car, it really looks good!!
Thanks Ebrahim - nice to meet you. I was thinking I should have got a pic of it with your GTR - they would have looked pretty cool together.
So did you guys end up doing anything to the brakes after the shakedown at Hampton?
Filx just re bled them as it was all we could really do in the time we had, think we'll look at fitting the R32 brakes I bought recently but I suggested going to something bigger ;D
The car is pretty sweet now, oil temps well under control so the brakes are whats letting it down hence my thought of going overkill, at least then you have 100% confidence in them.
The current set up has been mediocre at best right from the start, they would be awesome on a road only car but on the track they can't really cut it.
Hmmm, I wouldn't mind strapping those brakes into my car....
First things first though
i'd be pretty keen on those brakes vert ;)
Talk to Filx, he's the financial controller ;D
Got to work out what to do first - whatever the solution is it has to fit under 17s (preferably 16s) as I'm not going bigger than 17s on the car.
So if anyone is keen on the current brakes drop me a PM. Please keep in mind that Cox kit is something like $4000NZD new and we just put in brand new OEM rotors and the Yellow Stuff pads. That would be a staggeringly awesome set up for the street.
Quote from: Filx on January 31, 2012, 11:06:56 PM
Got to work out what to do first - whatever the solution is it has to fit under 17s (preferably 16s) as I'm not going bigger than 17s on the car.
So if anyone is keen on the current brakes drop me a PM. Please keep in mind that Cox kit is something like $4000NZD new and we just put in brand new OEM rotors and the Yellow Stuff pads. That would be a staggeringly awesome set up for the street.
cool, keep me in mind please, and when you work out a price please let me know so i can start saving!!
Haha let Ash have em, I'm just dreaming
Quote from: Filx on January 31, 2012, 11:06:56 PM
Got to work out what to do first - whatever the solution is it has to fit under 17s (preferably 16s) as I'm not going bigger than 17s on the car.
So if anyone is keen on the current brakes drop me a PM. Please keep in mind that Cox kit is something like $4000NZD new and we just put in brand new OEM rotors and the Yellow Stuff pads. That would be a staggeringly awesome set up for the street.
I think there must be something wrong that those brakes are that bad. I don't think its a size thing, its just the pads and some cooling needed or a different braking style or something. Its not THAT fast is it :P
You're right BBs, they're not actually that bad - and no that car isn't that fast. I had a heap of fun at Taupo and could get 4-5 laps out of them with a bit of care, but I just lacked confidence in them (could be psychological) and we're looking for a solution will give a big improvement in that department.
So while I'm sure some ducting and a different pad combo would improve them, after talking about it with vert we're keen to go for a big improvement. The goal is a combo you can go and hammer without even thinking about them.
Been dailying the Vento for the last week and a half with the Golf on stands getting brakes sorted out. Fitted the Targas and some 205/45s. Could go lower with some spacers to clear the coilover spring perches but for a temporary solution I'm quite liking it.
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgetfile1.posterous.com%2Fgetfile%2Ffiles.posterous.com%2Fangil%2FAnBzwixmHbHsrsFDgvlvbbDtjdEIkxliCnckahBiqEfsCkwawlsssjvqlxll%2Fmedia_httpdistilleryi_nhoFa.jpg.scaled500.jpg&hash=1129defd8f9086fc52ad1456b1f210b5026258da)
Cool picture, is that a special effect?
So what brakes ended up going on this?
Quote from: BB on July 10, 2012, 07:35:20 PM
Cool picture, is that a special effect?
Nah, just iPhone 3 and instagram - hence crappy quality. But at least you can do something a little bit fun with a quick snap in a car park. I'm no great photographer I'm afraid :laugh:
Quote from: coons on July 10, 2012, 08:55:23 PM
So what brakes ended up going on this?
Currently on VR6 288s until 17" wheels arrive and I can check that they will clear the R32 brakes. Then vert and I will work on getting those fitted with some Hawk pads and see how they go. I need to decide on what tyres to run again as well - I love the RE11s so it might be a 17" set but I'm also tempted to try some of the Nittos.
Slicks is what you want!
Can't believe it's been about a year since the last update, let alone that this car project started 5 years ago!
Not a lot has changed on the car in the last 12 months, it's on some 17x8 Speedlines with Direzzas and I also added stock Vento lights to take it back to more of an OEM look. But aside from enjoying it as a daily driver on and off over the last 12 months I haven't had much time do any events.
So I used the recent Dyno Day as an excuse to get it out of the garage. I had decided to try a bit more boost and see if I could extract some more power out of it but she stayed stubbornly at 260fwkw. Some research over the last week or so seems to indicate that is about the max you'll get with a stock throttle body.
So to extract more power would mean using a 75mm DBW TB (RS4 I think), some sort of aftermarket inlet manifold (IE or SEM) and a retune of the Maestro. Maestro has some built in TB scaling functionality but even then I'm kind of torn between just enjoying the car as it is, or doing the changes and seeing how much further one could take it. I hate to say it but the former option is looking more likely as the car works really well as it is currently (sheez, I must be getting old!)
Pics for clicks 8)
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2FVentoDyno2013_zps9942d9f4.jpg&hash=21dad9e4eab6afd43ed13fb1e546d60579d45559) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/turbo_phil/media/Dubshack%20Project%2009/VentoDyno2013_zps9942d9f4.jpg.html)
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2FVentodynosheetMay2013_zps4ed93f75.jpg&hash=6113aaf9eb495d5b23337ad5c8251235ec474cce) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/turbo_phil/media/Dubshack%20Project%2009/VentodynosheetMay2013_zps4ed93f75.jpg.html)
(thanks Budalo for the pics)
According to my research, the IE manifold is for GT35 turbos so sounds like the SEM will be better suited. The IE one is a great package though. With a bigger throttle body, wouldn't it be best to run larger IC piping too?
Also, big fan of Speedlines 8)
Surely a R32 throttle body would work?
Or are you already running one of them?
The R32 TB is the same size as the RS4 but different bolt pattern I believe.
edit: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4690902-TECH-TEST-1-OF-3-Throttle-Body-Sizing
Wait, isn't the SEM a small port manifold?
Quote from: Pinkmaggit on May 17, 2013, 08:31:13 PM
The R32 TB is the same size as the RS4 but different bolt pattern I believe.
edit: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4690902-TECH-TEST-1-OF-3-Throttle-Body-Sizing
They are similar, but I believe an off the shelf adaptor plate can be bought for the R32 TB
As for the SEM intake being small port, most likely yes. Only going on the fact the US never received a big port intake golf at all. It was exclusive to the AGU and AEB engine in euro spec.
SEM is cast for small port as I understand it, but can be ported to fit the large port. Problem with SEM is entry is on the pasenger side so that would mean completely redoing the intercooler piping. IE has the advantage of being able to have inlet on either side.
I like the idea of having the throttle body on the left. Would run a nice water to air ic mounted above the gearbox
without changing anything you can get 10-25% more power by running e85 fuel on the same tune.iv witnessed first hand.
but with bigger injectors and a re tune a lot more can be dialled in without drastically changing anything.
it smells good aswell with the alcohol.also runs alot cooler.
would you consider selling this car?
No doubt you can probably find a bit more power in the current setup, at least more area under the curve - some cams would benefit it as well. However I would argue that a certain amount of air will be needed to make the power no matter what the fuel and if the throttle body can't flow a lot more air then that's still going to set your upper limit.
The good thing is the fix is relatively easy - inlet manifold, TB and cams would see 300fwkw. The thing to bear in mind though is 260fwkw and sub 1200kg does put a wee smile on your face >:D
There is a race map in the ECU which has a bunch more timing, so running that plus avgas or E85 would push a bit more - but I like that this car is in street trim and starts, stops and drives like a normal Golf that you can fill up at any petrol station etc.
Would I consider selling? Probably not, but everything is for sale at the right price I suppose.
I struggle to keep my VR6 from breaking down all the time, I am in awe of what you have achieved. Well done.
Quote from: BlackBeastVR6 on May 18, 2013, 08:05:45 PM
I struggle to keep my VR6 from breaking down all the time, I am in awe of what you have achieved. Well done.
Don't forget previous owners will have a role to play in that, they are fickle cars that require decent maintenance. My brothers VR6 has had barely any problems, because the previous owner serviced it like it was a Lamborghini. As a result he's only had the odd Mk3 issue, window regs etc.
Plus these guys know Mk3's inside out, if I was going to do anything major with mine I'd annoy them for 20 questions.
I was lucky :-\ I picked up an auto VR6 for $500 that had absolutely NO maintenance done since it landed in New Zealand (over exaggeration), it was going with a dodgy 'box when I picked it up but as I started fixing more stuff started breaking............. $5000 later, she still not running right (threads elsewhere)
Looking at this thread sparks a bit more enthusiasm to keep going with mine (not to their extent tho')
Another 8 months have gone by - I haven't had much of a chance to use the car but went to this photo shoot thing the other day and Crash kindly leant me his OZ wheels (OZ Roulettes 17x8 ET35 with 10mm front and 15mm rear spacers, 205/40 tyres) and took some amazing shots.
These are some of my favourites photos.
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2Fth_Ventopvwaushoot3_zpsc3a79383.jpg&hash=b86b48c63e68b0d6273cd1a162c139feec8efd9c) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/turbo_phil/media/Dubshack%20Project%2009/Ventopvwaushoot3_zpsc3a79383.jpg.html)(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2Fth_Ventopvwaushoot2_zps0912496d.jpg&hash=119ac6bc81d6ddd149ee43971e8e246c1591afb5) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/turbo_phil/media/Dubshack%20Project%2009/Ventopvwaushoot2_zps0912496d.jpg.html)(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2Fth_Ventopvwaushoot_zpsdbdfd7e3-1.jpg&hash=acf67bb43493680ecd335c18f1e9384c445b9015) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/turbo_phil/media/Dubshack%20Project%2009/Ventopvwaushoot_zpsdbdfd7e3-1.jpg.html)
Nothing much has changed on the car - I dialled down the suspension for the day and added an OEM Vento grille instead of the 1 piece aftermarket one that has been on there. Going to be hard to give these wheels back!
Love that look, Phil 8)
what was the outcome with the brakes Phil?
^ No out come as yet. Still rolling VR6/GTI 288s - which are fine for street duties. I do need to have a think about brakes, though if I get any interest from a buyer they might have their own ideas so we'll see how it goes.
Got a bit of maintenance work to do - new strut top mounts and tie rods required.
Been running my Carrera front 4 pots and 312mm TT discs this year on track and been perfect over 8 laps etc. ;D
Less weight in your stripped out Corrado than our lardy Vento though ;D
Barry, Are you using custom adapters you've made yourself, or the creation motorsport ones?
vert does have a pretty interesting Porsche calliper option we might try >:D
Quote from: 80 Vert on February 07, 2014, 02:48:26 PM
Less weight in your stripped out Corrado than our lardy Vento though ;D
Quote from: 80 Vert on February 07, 2014, 02:48:26 PM
Less weight in your stripped out Corrado than our lardy Vento though ;D
Repeated stops from 240+kmh at end of Teretonga, plays your heavy Vento. ;D
Please don't take offence but 8 laps of full racing is completely different to any track day. For instance my sc belt has taken 15 mins of "testing" with only a stop to check tyre pressures but after 7 laps of racing it overheats :o
I haven't even had slight fade yet.
Pink: I had them made as all adapters available were for Mk4 not Mk3 setup.
Did that Vento grill come on it stock?
Quote from: Filx on January 17, 2014, 01:12:11 PM
Another 8 months have gone by - I haven't had much of a chance to use the car but went to this photo shoot thing the other day and Crash kindly leant me his OZ wheels (OZ Roulettes 17x8 ET35 with 10mm front and 15mm rear spacers, 205/40 tyres) and took some amazing shots.
This is one of my favourites photos.
Nothing much has changed on the car - I dialled down the suspension for the day and added an OEM Vento grille instead of the 1 piece aftermarket one that has been on there. Going to be hard to give these wheels back!
Quote from: gav on April 25, 2014, 11:41:05 PM
Did that Vento grill come on it stock?
Hi gav, no that Vento grille was one I got sometime last year. Just ran it for those photos as I was getting bored of the badgeless.
I dragged the old girl out of the garage recently and started the summer prep, I'll be heading over to verts to fit the new tie rods and strut top mounts and a few other minor tweaks in the next few weeks. Then aiming for a few laps at HD on the 13th of December. I still haven't sorted out the brakes but thinking just chuck some decent pads on the 288s and just go and enjoy it.
I toured down to see Andy at RaceFX recently to get the authority card renewal paperwork signed off and get that process underway as I failed to do two events in it last season. Here's a quick snap from the new Gull station at HD on a cloudy old day
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2F968967F7-6ABC-492D-A421-49BDB1B65AEF_zpsjikdj0l8.jpg&hash=976d6579fb792a21ad52d4d403683eb906b1949c) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/turbo_phil/media/Dubshack%20Project%2009/968967F7-6ABC-492D-A421-49BDB1B65AEF_zpsjikdj0l8.jpg.html)
Gaaaawd I love driving this car - how something as mundane as a Mk3 Vento can be can be made this much fun always makes me smile. Maybe my perspective is a bit off? I need to drive some better cars or set my sights higher or something? I dunno - don't really care, I still love it. 8)
Quote from: Filx on November 28, 2014, 02:43:01 PM
Gaaaawd I love driving this car - how something as mundane as a Mk3 Vento can be can be made this much fun always makes me smile. Maybe my perspective is a bit off? I need to drive some better cars or set my sights higher or something? I dunno - don't really care, I still love it. 8)
isn't that what it's all about? enjoyment of driving, to quote the 60s "if it feels good, do it!"
Liking those wheels on her.
Got a few more things done yesterday getting ready for HD on the 13th. I headed over to verts shop to try his new lift, this thing is sweet. Made fitting the new Powerflex Black series strut top mounts and new OEM tie rods a breeze, well actually the tie rods were a prick as getting that damn boot on over the rack and that breather tube thing is a mission!!! But at least I as standing up not the normal lying on the floor style :laugh:)
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2F030C26AC-4627-4C42-B056-03C788D29A66_zps57exg8nj.jpg&hash=88f819b6fd790fd7f5ac4a22713033823fd6f648) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/turbo_phil/media/Dubshack%20Project%2009/030C26AC-4627-4C42-B056-03C788D29A66_zps57exg8nj.jpg.html)
And through some amazing generosity from another old forum member I was allowed to borrow some Mk4 R32 to brakes which we fitted up with some Hawk Blue 9012 pads I had . I've wanted to try a set for ages to see if they might cure the braking issues. It was late in the day byt the time we finished so I got through the bed in procedure (sort of) and phwoar when they get some heat in them they are pretty crazy. Upon review when I got home I also noticed until they're properly bedded in they're only contacting half the rotor - so I expect more to come.
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2F48A6425B-E036-4C2B-B16A-89D87A618191_zpsodhktd3e.jpg&hash=f4bfa4814e46c472d6476e952f2c990954976197) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/turbo_phil/media/Dubshack%20Project%2009/48A6425B-E036-4C2B-B16A-89D87A618191_zpsodhktd3e.jpg.html)
After a bit of a mad scramble in the last minute to get the car ready myself, vert and a mate of mine headed to Hampton Downs on Saturday for the PlayDay. The weather was looking a bit average but stayed cloudy and dry all day which was great.
I had some trepidation as I headed out for the first session as I haven?t had the car out in any serious anger in a long while and aside from feeling pretty rusty was also nervous how the brakes would go. As anyone that has read this thread will know that is an issue we?ve been keen to resolve for a long time. And I'm pleased to say the R32 brakes and Hawk 9012 Blue pads turned out to be pretty good, not the perfect solution but certainly going in the right direction.
What we discovered was the ABS just didn?t like the new setup and was very intrusive when I was really trying to exploit the stopping power. But after talking with more experienced people about it and with a few sessions under my belt I changed my braking style a bit to compensate, which basically meant using slightly less pressure on the pedal and letting the grabbiness of the pads do the braking. The result was we were able to go pretty close to the full 15 minute session and still have confidence in the brakes throughout.
Aside from that the car was just awesome and banged out lap after lap of pure joy of driving. So much fun to mash the throttle and ride the boost wave while you bang through the gears! Definitely the most fun I've had in ages. 8) The afternoon sessions especially were brilliant as the numbers had dwindled a bit so there was more clear track to work with.
Though later in the afternoon we had a blunt reminder of the risks ? vert and I were in the car and we?d been overtaken by a pretty quick RX8 racecar, as we rounded the tight right hand hairpin before the short uphill straight we saw it get some power oversteer out of the turn, drop a wheel on the dirt, which rotated it even more and it ploughed back across the track and shunted the nose into the wall on the right hand side. Not a big shunt but enough to red flag the session. A stark reminder it can go wrong pretty quickly.
After that we called it a day, packed up and headed home. The drive back is a good chance to reflect on what improvements could be made. I would like to get to some finality on the braking solution and there?s few ideas floating around, and there is a few other small changes that need to be made but that's another future post.
I didn't get many pics but here's a couple.
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2F4c747805-a62a-4800-bef0-5becca853a2e_zpsc8512094.jpg&hash=d9795c3a5cffb83d9eab7a90935ca4f056e8b80f) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/turbo_phil/media/Dubshack%20Project%2009/4c747805-a62a-4800-bef0-5becca853a2e_zpsc8512094.jpg.html)
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2Fth_D12023A1-DA2A-48E9-97FF-EF62083AF9DD_zpsgoorqvwv.jpg&hash=c8461a1973f810dc3de4bc5f541d6378d6b72f3a) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/turbo_phil/media/Dubshack%20Project%2009/D12023A1-DA2A-48E9-97FF-EF62083AF9DD_zpsgoorqvwv.jpg.html)(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2Fth_ACBB073F-B312-476A-AE59-1DEC9C61471B_zpsncrrxchq.jpg&hash=97e34988cb26accc510ec2683682629d03f396c0) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/turbo_phil/media/Dubshack%20Project%2009/ACBB073F-B312-476A-AE59-1DEC9C61471B_zpsncrrxchq.jpg.html)(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2Fth_33035885-79DE-4513-9F17-8B2684856DD3_zpskpbzwdbi.jpg&hash=f7568711480c1b6fac5a2fb45de320cc944d81bb) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/turbo_phil/media/Dubshack%20Project%2009/33035885-79DE-4513-9F17-8B2684856DD3_zpskpbzwdbi.jpg.html)(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2Fth_6D780200-C947-456B-A0C3-ABAE3B92803D_zpscyvejuig.jpg&hash=f6f5f2a314c401867e900ae8fb4850774402b340) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/turbo_phil/media/Dubshack%20Project%2009/6D780200-C947-456B-A0C3-ABAE3B92803D_zpscyvejuig.jpg.html)
T'was great, the dirty old Vento did good.
Nice one Phil. I ended up going to a funeral Sat (close family friend) and I drove past Hampton Downs about 3pm on the way back to the airport. Didn't have time to drop in but managed to catch a glimpse of a couple of cars circuiting the track.
I got the Vento out for the twilight session at HD on Wed last week. We had managed to do a little bit of work on it over the break like fitting a new fire extinguisher, re-mounting the harness belts in a better location, etc. But with no other significant changes it was really just check the fluid levels, top up the fuel (I have worked out use around 30L for a day at HD including driving down and back from the Shore) do a throttle body adaptation and head down.
We had a really great group of people and cars coming to this session and the weather was beautiful so I was pretty excited to go for a blast. When we got to HD we were pretty much the first to arrive and it seemed pretty quiet but soon the pits had filled up with a broad variety of daily drivers to serious race cars. I got a bit tentative when they announced there was only going to be a slow group, fast group and Prestige groups. Usually at the full day events I'm most comfortable in the medium speed group, but with the slow group full the fast group beckoned. So I dialled up a few extra PSI of boost to see if I could hang with some of the faster guys.
Before heading out I have been wanted try the brakes without ABS as it was quite intrusive last time out, so we pulled and re-installed the ABS fuse to check we had the right fuse. I was intending to do a session or two with ABS to find my feet and then pull the fuse. I don't know if temporarily removing that fuse did anything, or maybe the pads are now properly bedded in but the revelation was the brakes worked really well. No intrusive ABS, much less grabby and more progressive than last time and the ABS only kicked in at the point of overbraking.
I couldn't quite believe it, it was awesome - I had good confidence in the brakes for the full 15 minute session. I still get quite a lot of pedal travel but it never went "to the floor" and the "feel" allowed good modulation. So I think we're narrowing in on what sort of setup will do the job. I would like some similar size rotors but lighter in weight.
The main area where I lose speed now is cornering speed, especially compared to the modern cars or cars on R spec tires. So that is something to work on (as is my average driving ability too :laugh:), but as far as a fun afternoon out goes it was an 11/10!!! Just absolutely awesome fun. Driving in the fast group was challenging as I had one eye on the mirror all the time as there was some seriously quick cars out there which meant it was hard to do any really consistent full laps. What it did do though was let me try and follow and learn from some people that seemed like they knew what they were on about 8)
However according to Harry's Laptimer app my best was a 1:22.17 which while I'm aware is not exactly quick, is quicker than I have previously achieved so I was happy with that. Interestingly also this was achieved on my 3rd to last lap of the day and on the lowest boost (17.5 psi) as I had dialled the boost back down throughout the day combat the loss of traction out of the hairpins with the extra boost. So while it was fun chasing the fast cars on the straights it was not enough to make up for the lack of traction and drive out of the corners.
The EBC street boost controller has a function for an external button to swap between low and high boost settings. Vert and I are talking about adding a button on the steering wheel to be able to select high boost when needed. That should allow some optimisation of the level of boost for maximum traction but also engage a few extra ponies to lug the car up the hill with a press of the button.
Here's a pic with a couple of friends that brought their grocery getters down - battle of the white wagons! Both impressive for their spec - the B8 S4 especially is a bit of a sleeper and went very well at HD.
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2FF84DBFB5-CDFB-46B9-B873-E114BC17BDF2_zpspr7h0wgu.jpg&hash=ac51c0eb519a29270c121b93b49006b3a5d256a4) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/turbo_phil/media/Dubshack%20Project%2009/F84DBFB5-CDFB-46B9-B873-E114BC17BDF2_zpspr7h0wgu.jpg.html)
Nice write up!
Hit the track again yesterday, I arrived at midday as I had some family commitments earlier on but heard that after they spent some time cleaning up from an off by a lovely late model Corvette, there hadn't been many sessions so I hadn't missed much.
The day was hot and humid - not good for the car (or the driver. :)) and they put me in the fast group again which adds some sweat to the already sweaty palms. However this turned out to be good as there wasn't as many cars in the fast group (and a few expired on the day with engine issues) and what was there wasn't all that fast. Though there was a black Mk1 Ford Escort powered by (I was later told) a turbo charged BEAMS 2L Toyota Altezza engine. Oh my lawd that was quick - following him (albeit briefly) was awesome - he just squatted out of corners and disappeared down the straights. I love a fast classic car!
I took a few people for rides and generally had an fantastic time as usual. I hadn't fitted the overboost button as I ran out of time for that job but had managed some new plugs and oil so the car felt fairly crisp. I was running conservative boost and only late in the day I realised I had a boost leak that was capping boost at 19psi - which I think was from me not tightening the clamp on the turbo discharge pipe enough after removing and re-installing it when changing spark plugs. hopefully an easy fix for next time.
The best session was the last one of the day. I went out with vert in the passenger seat and we had managed to join the queue to enter the track in the middle of about 5 or 6 of the NZ SIX race car guys. They take no prisoners so after we entered the track I pulled over and let the guys behind me go and then peddled along behind this big gaggle of them. They weren't too difficult to keep up with as they squirmed and slid out of corners and while they had a bit more overall cornering speed than the dirty old Vento, we reeled them back in under acceleration (even on my lowly 17psi). As they were all race car guys I didn't feel too bad about camping on their bumpers and giving them a little push along. >:D
We were going well and enjoying the session until one of them spun after the downhill right hand sweeper at the end of the straight and mildly collected the wall on the inside which caused a red flag. So we cruised in, threw the bags in the car and drove home.
As an aside I ordered this steering wheel button adapter so once that arrives head over to verts shop and get that sorted out. I think that will make a noticeable difference to the overall performance of the car.
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2FMomo%2520button_zpsg7lma4zs.jpg&hash=ea66bfb99f6d3ce41560a146f102c9b11a1777aa) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/turbo_phil/media/Dubshack%20Project%2009/Momo%20button_zpsg7lma4zs.jpg.html)
The steering wheel button arrived and I got that installed. Quite nice and sturdy mount and the button falls nicely in position for a thumb press. I used the redundant airbag wires as vert suggested to hook the button up through the slip ring which minimised any ugly spiral wire wrapped around the steering column.
Basically I found the two airbag wires on steering column side of the slip ring (yellow and white wires) and cut those, then connected the green wire from the boost controller to the white wire and earthed the yellow. Then connected the steering wheel side wires to the button and put it all back together. Sounds simple enough but took a while fiddling around. I'm looking forward to testing this on the track, though the next chance is likely to be the 2nd of April which is a while away.
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2FEB6C1BC1-814D-4D36-A989-72F4EC28E9DF_zpszh9nqmls.jpg&hash=6f7785604bd679c7380592334487d8f312b19c08) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/turbo_phil/media/Dubshack%20Project%2009/EB6C1BC1-814D-4D36-A989-72F4EC28E9DF_zpszh9nqmls.jpg.html)
And yes I did realise the obvious mistake and straighten the horn button after this pic was taken. :laugh:
Headed to Verts shop on Monday to bleed the brakes and sort out the boost leak, turns out I'm an idiot (no real surprise :laugh:) and had mounted the wheel 90 degrees off centre anyway and having not test driven the car since refitting the wheel that issue was undiscovered. So mucked around and sorted that out after a couple of goes. Tightened up all of the clamps on the boost pipes and went for a test run. Sure enough holds well over 20PSI now and the button works a charm.
We're heading to the Playday Twilight session tomorrow afternoon and I will test it out in anger then. I also picked up a tip to disconnect the front swaybar to aid cornering grip and traction through the corners. So I will also try that and see how it goes.
Well after 5 years, many track days (20+ maybe), some drag days and plenty of road miles we finally had a small issue yesterday in the second session when a crack appeared in the downpipe where the pipe from the wastegate merges with the main DP. Not a major issue but enough to curtail the fun and will mean removing the engine to get it fixed.
However at that stage the door is open as to what to do, e.g. change the turbo to a low mount setup, install a more standard engine back into the Vento and swap this motor into something lighter like my Mk2 Golf and make that into a more stripped out, track focussed car. or something completely different. No sure as yet - time will tell. :)
Or develop the car coming from Japan........... >:D
You should put a VR6 in it. :P
Tdi ftw
Well in the end the decision got made and the Vento headed out to Johns shop to get this installed.
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe138%2Fturbo_phil%2FDubshack%2520Project%252009%2F280CA019-D2E4-4D4E-A387-7AB137A081DA_zpsz8qr8qfx.jpg&hash=92ea36f5fa0e29cd6040e25905dce7a35adb6c3e) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/turbo_phil/media/Dubshack%20Project%2009/280CA019-D2E4-4D4E-A387-7AB137A081DA_zpsz8qr8qfx.jpg.html)
It's a BAM engine from a 2002 Audi S3. relatively plug and play barring custom 3" downpipe and some new intercooler piping all made in house by John. Not quite the white knuckle animal it used to be but is lots of fun, just in a very different way to the old big turbo engine.
Plans for a bigger turbo? Or just keep it tame?
Just keep it stock Hans for the moment. I have been driving it a bit more, I need to hook up the EGT sensor wiring and a few minor things and she's done. Goes really well, great fun on a twisty back road with almost the fast boost response and heaps of mid range torque.
So this is my final update for this thread as the owner of the Vento as I'm handing it on to a new owner tomorrow. That person may choose to post on here or not, that's up to them. However I can say I'm really happy to see it go to a great home and super excited to see how they evolve the car. 8)
And the new owner is "me".
Quote from: robh on April 28, 2016, 08:30:15 AM
And the new owner is "me".
Nice robo!
SYNCHRO VR6T in the works?
Hell no!
Quote from: robh on April 28, 2016, 09:43:09 AM
Hell no!
Awwwuh why not
Its easy in a mk3 the floor pans already have the pressings for the rear diff mounts etc :p
Quote from: robh on April 28, 2016, 08:30:15 AM
And the new owner is "me".
Awesome!
What does this mean for the Mk2?
Quote from: RS ZWEI on April 28, 2016, 01:31:14 PM
Awesome!
What does this mean for the Mk2?
It will resurface one day :) no intention of selling.
Great stuff Rob, back out on the track where it belongs.
Hope to see you out at some track days.
Quote from: robh on April 28, 2016, 08:30:15 AM
And the new owner is "me".
mate, you've got issues 8)
Don't laugh I know these aren't as good as a proper alloy baffled sump, but does anyone know if these OEM sump baffles are fitted to all 1.8T engines? Or did they come along later: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sump-Oil-Baffle-Oil-Pan-For-Beetle-Jetta-Golf-Passat-AUDI-A4-TT-1-8T-2-0-/261868864264?hash=item3cf899c308:g:bMsAAOSwrklVPwuX&vxp=mtr
Seem like good value to me, as long as they don't explode :)
I would think the S3 engine already has that in it.
What do you do when your Frankenstein Golf is lonely?
You introduce it to it's Frankenstein Vento brother, in for front hoses, pads, brake fluid.
Quote from: robh on June 22, 2016, 09:06:03 AM
What do you do when your Frankenstein Golf is lonely?
Put it back together and take it for a run?
Next jobs:
1. Ferodo DS2500 front pads
2. Swap stock front brake hoses for HEL braided hoses
3. Replace brake fluid with RBF600
4. Bolt down spare wheel
5. Get a new WOF
6. Fix fuel gauge
7. Drive it
where are you getting the ds2500 from Robh? I could be keen if the supplier has these for other makes too
Racebrakes, not cheap, but have all the right types and options on hand.
Pagid blue supposed to be a very good track pad as well that also works on the road.
Hmm, some progress, some not progress:
1. Ferodo DS2500 front pads - Done
2. Swap stock front brake hoses for HEL braided hoses - Done, I thought, until 1 leaked out top of fitting, tried old hose, no leak, must be something funky inside the fitting.
3. Replace brake fluid with RBF600 - See 2.
4. Bolt down spare wheel - Done
5. Get a new WOF - See 2.
6. Fix fuel gauge - Found issue, wire break in loom, easy fix once found.
7. Drive it - See 2.
Weird one here, got another hose made up as we both thought the thread inside the fitting look slightly off as in not fully threaded all the way in.
But, put the 2nd new one on and it leaked as well, in fact the hard line is so loose inside the Hel hose fitting that you can rock it side to side.
Strange thing is the left front is totally fine. Anyway have given up now and put the factory rubber lines back on as want to get a wof and drive it.
Anyone had issues before with the flare on a hard line not being quite right?
If the factory hose doesn't leak it must be something to do with the depth of the thread in your new hose, measure and compare the 2?
Maybe someone remade the hard line and used a different flare type?
But in true Rob fashion, does one leaking brake hose mean you are taking the car off the road, stripping it, adding copious amounts of power?
had the same problem with the lub line from the supercharger, some fitting are taper, some not, at the end I went to dynoflow (specialist in hydraulic) with the original line and asked to make a braided version of it and it was cheaper as well.
Saw this going through Howick a few weeks ago. Makes good boostie noises
Yes it's a little bit shouty on the intake, not as fast as it sounds though, but nice and raw to drive.
Got David at http://tunetechnic.co.nz/ to run the Vento up on his dyno just to see what it's running like on the stock BAM motor.
120kw atw, he reckoned about right for that engine, although running very rich. He suggested looking at replacing MAF, but on catching up with Phil the MAF isn't very old.
Phil had already told me EGT wasn't wired up and kindly gave me all the wiring for hooking it up. From my research EGT is used as a safety measure and ECU throws extra fuel in when EGT about 900 degrees or something like that measurement. So it might explain richness if ECU is over fueling due to no EGT signal.
So wired EGT up last night and went for a drive with vagcom logging, surprising how quickly exhaust temps rise when you put your foot down. 2 police cars spotted within 3 minutes of driving, quite hard to do full load runs in 3rd gear at night with no windscreen wipers installed and raining :)
Haven't really played much with vagcom but it's now my latest favorite tool.
Hey..Just a side issue..
What tyres are you running on the Vento?
Quote from: Lee on December 09, 2016, 09:51:21 AM
Hey..Just a side issue..
What tyres are you running on the Vento?
Direzzas, 215 x 17 can't remember profile.
Did a track day at Hampton Downs, halfway through the day big clunk, thud, bang.
Gearbox or CV joint broken. Not sure which yet, no oil explosion onto track but from what I understand gearbox can break without punching through casing.
Fingers crossed CV joint and to be fair car had a lot of power going through those driveshafts when Phil had the big turbo on it :)
Pulled engine and gearbox today, quite pleased with how easy it comes apart.
Drained oil from gearbox, big lumps of teeth attached to drain plug, oh dear!
Ouch!
Opened up gearbox yesterday, think one of the diff bearings went south and then the crown wheel has destroyed most of the teeth on output shaft pinion plus the crown wheel is pretty rooted as well now.
Good to know the cheapo OBX is still intact, the ring and pinion always had chips on the teeth hence the howl on decell
Opened up the obx lsd yesterday, looks ok to me, no big lumps floating around inside it.
Then started work on stripping down replacement gearbox, getting quite good at pulling them apart.
IMO, the hardest part is the backlash on the ring gear and pinion...
Do you mean the shimming the preload ?
Any tips?
preload and backlash are done together on the 911 which could be similar for you as well.
I'm not sure my tips will be the same for you, but i measured about a dozen times, then i had spacers made to suit, I didnt get the spacers hardened, just ground, and they were superduperfly spot on...
I haven't had my car going yet so cant comment any further....
Quote from: robh on January 06, 2017, 08:35:21 AM
Do you mean the shimming the preload ?
Any tips?
there is a specific formula for the 02A and 02J where you have to take X - y to get the size of the shim you need to install behind the bearing outer race. it will likely be something to the effect of .90 or .95
one of my gearboxes required a 1.15mm shim the other a 0.95
it also changed based on the bearing used etc (different manufacturers tolerances etc)
fun fact the diff bearings are the same Bearings as the Wheelbearings in an original VW Beetle
you can buy the shims from VW but they are never in stock
I have always had friends at engineering shops grind to the exact size i have needed for this.
2 bearings and 2 seals from main dealer $326!
Plenty of stuff on ebay for a lot less.
Would prefer to buy from here somewhere though. Saeco fail, Auckland bearings fail, BNT fail. Have emailed speed. Anyone else have a suggestion?
What type of bearings and brand? $326 doesn't sound too bad after doing mine. 1 of my bearings was almost double that...
Quote from: robh on January 06, 2017, 07:57:35 PM
2 bearings and 2 seals from main dealer $326!
Plenty of stuff on ebay for a lot less.
Would prefer to buy from here somewhere though. Saeco fail, Auckland bearings fail, BNT fail. Have emailed speed. Anyone else have a suggestion?
Get the gearbox seals from Seal Imports. They are like 1/10th of the price. They dont have to be exactly the same either. Bearings i bought were just topran ones.i think they were $48.00 each
All bearings are pretty much shat out of the same production line in china anyway. So....
Quote from: ranton on January 08, 2017, 10:02:39 AM
All bearings are pretty much shat out of the same production line in china anyway. So....
How so Anton?
I've seen vastly different bearing quality from different brands. When the application allows I don't mind using Taiwanese bearings as a cost effective option. I've just recently used twin angular contact bearings for an application up to 6000rpm which came from Japan. Haven't started the machine yet but will do later this month.
Like anything theres bearings and then there's bearings...
Anyways it's just my opinion....
Ended up ordering a full rebuild kit off ebay uk that includes all bearings and seals landed for $250NZD.
yea there are definitely differences in bearing.
look at why the new ranger and foton getrag box's are failing. Chinese bearing. yet the same box in the transit with German bearings are fine.
Some pics, this is the drain plug from broken gearbox.
Damage to ring gear
Hard to see what this is, it's the magnet from the inside of gearbox that collects small bits of swarf (normally)!
Damage to pinion on the end of output shaft
Original OBX LSD stripped, cleaned and checked.
Holy moly the carnage!!
Hard to see why it failed though, the diff bearings still seem to be in one piece?
Quote from: 80 Vert on January 14, 2017, 08:50:31 AM
Holy moly the carnage!!
Hard to see why it failed though, the diff bearings still seem to be in one piece?
I think 1 diff bearing failed and that's how the damage occurred.
Another offering to the gods of speed
Just tried putting diff back into gearbox housing, but as soon as I clamp together unable to rotate diff, even by using output flange.
Pretty sure bearing shells are fitted into gearbox casings ok, no shim installed so I can measure correctly for preload.
Not convinced that the bearing on the speedo drive of diff shaft is pressed down fully. The plastic speedo drive is tight on one side, but I can rock it on the other, which makes me wonder if the bearing isn't fully seated???
Quote from: robh on January 22, 2017, 06:24:54 PM
Just tried putting diff back into gearbox housing, but as soon as I clamp together unable to rotate diff, even by using output flange.
Pretty sure bearing shells are fitted into gearbox casings ok, no shim installed so I can measure correctly for preload.
Not convinced that the bearing on the speedo drive of diff shaft is pressed down fully. The plastic speedo drive is tight on one side, but I can rock it on the other, which makes me wonder if the bearing isn't fully seated???
There is always slop in the speedo drive. Its normal.
So does that mean bearings too big? or diff too big? or??
Rebuilt and tweaked K04 turbo turned up yesterday.
Work done by Steve Murch.
Thanks to flix for great deal on the spare turbo.
Checked clutch and main crank seal at the weekend. Replaced cambelt, tensioner, water pump.
Just waiting on diff to come back from gearbox factory.
Turbo installed. All new gaskets and seals.
Swapped oem tip for forge one thanks flix. Not 100% happy with fit n75 fouls dump valve, will wait until engine in until triming for better fit.
Swapped out plugs for 1 grade colder.
Picked up obx diff, just need to re assemble box, how hard can it be?
Removed air con compressor, must be worth 1 second a lap.
Waiting on new flywheel bolts and non air con accessory belt.
Also ordered a Honda S2000 air filter, apparently very good and don't need oiling so no damage to maf. Confused the hell out of Honda parts guy he thought I'd put an S2000 engine in a VW!
Gearbox reassembled yesterday, hope I did it right!
Flywheel back on engine, hoping to get it all back into car this week.
Quote from: robh on February 20, 2017, 07:51:02 AM
Gearbox reassembled yesterday, hope I did it right!
Flywheel back on engine, hoping to get it all back into car this week.
I need your level of speed on my build! Nicely done Rob
Quote from: robh on February 20, 2017, 07:51:02 AM
Gearbox reassembled yesterday, hope I did it right!
Flywheel back on engine, hoping to get it all back into car this week.
Haha! Fingers crossed.
Engine and box bolted back in tonight, lots of boring stuff to connect back up now.
Steve Murch K04.
Other side.
Turbo mounted.
Engine in.
Nice work Rob! Did Steve Murch tweak that turbo or simply rebuild?
Quote from: Filx on February 22, 2017, 11:56:31 AM
Nice work Rob! Did Steve Murch tweak that turbo or simply rebuild?
Rebuilt and tweaked with an upgraded billet wheel.
She's alive again.
WTF is with that air filter?
Few things to bolt back on and then road test.
Reassembly complete.
Test drive complete.
Also did a fuel flow test to check fuel pump before dyno tuning.
Couple of small jobs to complete:
1. fuel filter
2. oil/filter change
3. flush coolant
Be interesting to see what power can be extracted from current setup. I always get a little tingle in my dingle before dyno runs, is that normal?
That didn't go to plan.
1. Drain plug in sump wasn't factory, sump has been helicoiled at some point and the plug was tapered not parallel thread, pitch was also finer than factory plug. Ended up pulling sump off to get a proper look and make sure no bits of helicoil lurking around.
2. From discussions with Dave at Tunetechnic and Phil I've decided to install an external Bosch 044 and use the stock in tank pump as a lift pump as per how John and Phil had it running with the big turbo motor. The stock in tank is probably a standard Golf mark 4 1.8T pump and they have a lower flow rating than the 225bhp BAM S3 motors. The in tank is a nightmare to remove and refit due to rollcage, so I'm just going Bosch 044 as we know it will work and be more than enough for what this spec motor can do.
Not something I've thought of before, but have you, or anyone else, used a fuel level switch in the surge/swirl tank to kill the boost or otherwise warn of a low level before it leans out?
Could also be applicable to dry sump oil tanks.
I've installed a fuel pressure sender in Golf for exactly this, but not a fuel level sender.
Quote from: robh on March 05, 2017, 09:25:53 PM
That didn't go to plan.
1. Drain plug in sump wasn't factory, sump has been helicoiled at some point and the plug was tapered not parallel thread, pitch was also finer than factory plug. Ended up pulling sump off to get a proper look and make sure no bits of helicoil lurking around.
2. From discussions with Dave at Tunetechnic and Phil I've decided to install an external Bosch 044 and use the stock in tank pump as a lift pump as per how John and Phil had it running with the big turbo motor. The stock in tank is probably a standard Golf mark 4 1.8T pump and they have a lower flow rating than the 225bhp BAM S3 motors. The in tank is a nightmare to remove and refit due to rollcage, so I'm just going Bosch 044 as we know it will work and be more than enough for what this spec motor can do.
Very interesting move on the fuel supply.
a brand new stock Cupra R pump could have easily flowed around 350hp. But as we all know how you work?
Is usually err... the side of caution, which is good to see you going further and having ample fuel supply in surplus now.
Quote from: GLIDN on March 13, 2017, 01:46:51 PM
Very interesting move on the fuel supply.
a brand new stock Cupra R pump could have easily flowed around 350hp. But as we all know how you work?
Is usually err... the side of caution, which is good to see you going further and having ample fuel supply in surplus now.
I weighed it up, but the cost of new Bosch 044 was bugger all and much easier to fit than new in tank pump. The roll cage makes it very fiddly to remove and even harder to refit.
Only drawback of the 044 in my mind will be the noise!
Quote from: robh on March 14, 2017, 11:20:32 AM
I weighed it up, but the cost of new Bosch 044 was bugger all and much easier to fit than new in tank pump. The roll cage makes it very fiddly to remove and even harder to refit.
Only drawback of the 044 in my mind will be the noise!
yeah exactly.
But I guess you did it on the mk2? So may be use to it perhaps?
Fuel pump installed.
Pump to filter hose and wiring not done in this pic.
Another angle.
good work rob.
Dyno chart.
Stock engine
Stock 3 bar fpr and injectors
K04 rebuilt by Steve Murch with billet wheel
Front mount intercooler
3" downpipe
Forge TIP
S2000 air filter
Bosch 044 main pump
Quote from: robh on March 24, 2017, 04:48:00 PM
Dyno chart.
Stock engine
Stock 3 bar fpr and injectors
K04 rebuilt by Steve Murch with billet wheel
Front mount intercooler
3" downpipe
Forge TIP
S2000 air filter
Bosch 044 main pump
Are you happy with the result Rob?
Quote from: RS ZWEI on March 28, 2017, 01:02:01 PM
Are you happy with the result Rob?
Injectors are maxed out so that will have to be it for now. Water getting pretty hot now after 6-7 laps of Hampton downs.
Much more will need rods, flywheel and clutch. I've spent way too much recently just to get to this point.
That torque curve looks really nice Rob.
Quote from: robh on March 29, 2017, 08:23:39 AM
Injectors are maxed out so that will have to be it for now. Water getting pretty hot now after 6-7 laps of Hampton downs.
Much more will need rods, flywheel and clutch. I've spent way too much recently just to get to this point.
So wheres the Mk2 at these days?
Quote from: RS ZWEI on March 29, 2017, 10:11:07 AM
So wheres the Mk2 at these days?
Sitting on roller skates :)
i have no idea how you get away with this Robh... :)
Quote from: NasTnaS on March 29, 2017, 01:55:35 PM
i have no idea how you get away with this Robh... :)
Get away with what?
so many cool toys in 1 garage....
So did a track day at Hampton Downs on National circuit.
Car goes well.
Water starts to get too hot towards end of 15 minute session, so trying an external Oil Cooler. 19 row from NZKW.
Dummied up with some shoddy home made brackets. Fitted into bottom front corner of bumper which is slightly obscured by intercooler piping, but I think at least there it won't be obscuring radiator or intercooler.
Take off plate with thermostat.
Tidied up Oil Cooler brackets today, but ran out of time to get some proper nuts and bolts for them.
The other 2 areas that could do with improvement for track work are proper track tyres and the front brakes need more feel.
So I fiddled around with the old AP 4 pots that were on Golf and trail fitted 1 side to the Vento. A small lug needed to be ground off the hub to clear inside face of rotor, but so far everything else looks to fit directly, even the hoses are the right length.
Wheel on.
I don't think the BBS RC suit the look of the Vento, so will probably just use them for track time as they already have some (very old) Toyo R888's on them.
Think I'll leave the Speedlines on for driving on the road.
Interesting Rob, with the big turbo motor and lots of boost we never ran in to water temp problems and with only a tiny oil cooler mounted behind the front grill that was usually ok too except on really hot days but a lap or 2 of taking it easy the oil temp came down quickly.
Our problem was always cooking the brakes / brake fluid but maybe that was due to the baboons behind the wheel.
Quote from: 80 Vert on April 23, 2017, 08:45:59 PM
Interesting Rob, with the big turbo motor and lots of boost we never ran in to water temp problems and with only a tiny oil cooler mounted behind the front grill that was usually ok too except on really hot days but a lap or 2 of taking it easy the oil temp came down quickly.
Our problem was always cooking the brakes / brake fluid but maybe that was due to the baboons behind the wheel.
I think even the small oil cooler you had would have made a difference.
I'm hoping it's just heat soaking towards the end of the 15 min session with the turbo being water cooled.
Prior to remap it didn't get hot on the water side at Pukey or Hampton Downs, but now I guess with a few extra KW's it's generating more heat.
Everything I've read from UK suggests that you need an external oil cooler for track work with any sort of tuned K04 setup.
Quote from: robh on April 23, 2017, 04:32:02 PM
Tidied up Oil Cooler brackets today, but ran out of time to get some proper nuts and bolts for them.
The other 2 areas that could do with improvement for track work are proper track tyres and the front brakes need more feel.
So I fiddled around with the old AP 4 pots that were on Golf and trail fitted 1 side to the Vento. A small lug needed to be ground off the hub to clear inside face of rotor, but so far everything else looks to fit directly, even the hoses are the right length.
Those brakes look good! They outta do the trick. I like the RCs, they would be pretty light weight as well i assume?
Gave up on the front brakes. Got them all fitted up and lined up nicely, but don't have any braided hoses the right length as soon as you go full lock they are way too short. The mark 2 hard line is in front of the strut and the mark 3 is behind the strut.
Out of $$$ and energy to go and pay for some new ones. So just installed the new braided lines on the front of the S3 brakes that are on it already, plus the DS2500 pads are barely worn yet, so should try and get some value out of them.
Well been a while. Long story try and cut to shorter version.
Coolant looked dodgy, but oil was like new, try couple of different leak down testers, ended up rooting one of the spark plug threads in cylinder head, pretty sure it wasn't my spannering but maybe it was.
Anyway got sick of messing around so have pulled engine and box so I could do a few jobs. Plan is currently:
1. Recoil spark plug threads in head
2. Remove factory oil cooler and just run aftermarket oil to air cooler
3. Upgrade Rods and ARP bolts
4. Light weight single mass flywheel and clutch
5. ARP flywheel bolts
6. ARP head bolts
7. Forge Wastegate Actuator
8. 630cc injectors
9. Remove PRV system and replace with breather tank
10. Remap
11. Drive it
You should look at those weld in baffle kits for the sump as well, might as well if its off already.
Good point John, might cheat and just get the Forge one as it's already built and I was going to order their wastegate actuator already.
Just ordered 4 new Toyo R888R's for the old girl.
Forge Baffled sump and wastegate actuator ordered.
Progress update, completed the following:
Recoil spark plug threads in head, New head gasket, ARP head bolts
Remove factory oil cooler and just run aftermarket oil to air cooler
Integrated Engineering rifle drilled rods and ARP bolts
Light weight single mass flywheel and south bend clutch, ARP flywheel bolts
Forge Wastegate Actuator, swapped to Yellow ? 15 psi (1.0 bar) spring
Forge baffled sump
Re route of brake servo vacuum line
Removed redundant charcoal filter vacuum lines
N249 valve delete
Engine and gearbox back in the hole, just have a bunch of stuff to reinstall/reconnect then remake oil cooler lines a touch longer.
Will bed down with current BAM 384cc injectors before switching out to 630cc and remap ;)
Rivets on clutch pressure plate not clearing gearbox bellhousing.
Pulled gearbox back out, so much fun, harder than pulling the engine/gearbox complete, not time wise but in terms of actually getting it out of the engine bay not easy.
Compared old dual mass flywheel/ring gear combo with single mass flywheel/ring gear, and the single mass is sits slightly deeper by about 1-1.5mm. Getting some material removed from rear face of flywheel and will try again.
All running again.
Ended up giving up on the clutch upgrade and stuck the factory dual mass setup back in. I know it will start slipping sooner rather than later, but wanted to make some progress on putting it back together and start driving it again.
Just doing a few road kms in it to bed down new rods, etc, then will pass back to Tune Technics with some bigger 630cc injectors for another remap with more fuel and more boost.
Remapped by Dave at Tune Technic.
Healthy increase in midrange, top end capping out by size of K04.
Goes quite well now, should really stop fiddling.
Surprised that stock DMF clutch setup is holding...
Hasn't sold and I'm not giving it away, so pouring more money into it instead :)
Removed external Bosch 44 as it was sooooo noisy, replaced with 500hp in tank deatschwerks pump.
Swapped front brakes out for AP 4 pot setup from the Golf, rotors aren't big but hoping they will cope with track work better than the Audi S3 setup.
Finally I'm ditching wheel bolts for studs this, very race car!
Have some other parts and changes on the way in the future....
Awesome Rob - looking forward to the next phase.
Vento has sold to someone that has the right idea about how to use this sort of car. I'll let them introduce themselves if they choose to.
Nice one Rob.
What's happening with your Mk2? If you want to sell any of the nice showy road bits to make it more track focussed, you should give me a shout. My Mk2 is finally able to be driven again!
I have seen the Vento Coupe pop up on the Playday on Track FB page a couple of times so great to see it is still out there getting used
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50358502032_ecea34b86f_c.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50358502087_937fc45a4b_c.jpg)