VASK Forum (VW Audi SportKlub of NZ)

OTHER => Bentley - Ducati - Lamborghini - Porsche => Topic started by: 80 Vert on May 20, 2018, 09:25:08 PM

Title: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on May 20, 2018, 09:25:08 PM
Since we are all looking to revive the forum again I thought I'd post up what's been happening with my old 911.
Been sitting for a few years while I tried to finish the T34 which has just dragged on an on, we are very very close now though and it was high time something happened with the 964.
Decided to do things differently this time by rebuilding the motor and gearbox first.
So, week before last the engine and gearbox came out. Its only done 100km so not expecting to find much but its very very leaky so early on I decided to tear the whole thing apart and inspect everything.
First job was to get it out of storage and as luck would have it the fuel pump had seized from sitting which as it turned out was a huge headache to get at, half a day later and 5L of petrol spilt on the ground it was in my hand.
Soaked the pump in degreaser over night and bench tested it, back to life!
Another epic struggle to get it back in it fired op right away with fresh fuel.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/peAgvoYDUxzjZzCELBOCza0iKkqaqMUiGBu0h8XK9B7jQBhVI0DHZHpEp2aNaJyk4unRrViQmmESF_rT64ep8AhwgB8o1H5KP6mhfDjlHFf-k0JN-GCsbSwDE4HyDiMBMHvZgSDpv1aql2lcj6kKlmhWbqmF5epLMThTgTyiVMLKBr7LW-UjuJ4lTmoSnwKV-ys4UJzcPB9MYpQp_3Deb-4EmeMU3pqaOFDt_n9rrKFA7Ev2mtQ8C0CScxYZbRIUAqqdD8tul8hq-aedysfdaDOGQOwAfUmt93JnnfVpRVlOXPN9wHCZ0Chddw2KiICtdaL9_RlJwcZWTXQpK77nGmV5V8glSMoeVXquDL2X1m53DzKPThndkbGjpFQE_jyCenvSF37EcE0SX_Ghdky92Gq47zMobz-emjXR8-r-F85y95t9fZ6cen5NvDrwc-bPIfLl_Lhas9_DgvDn7bfLpJQzXwk2lfSnbqJh9ydN_nOb2k2My1ufuhbaWeIsLF3Thq6aJAefsnI3GOUQCk96HZ2c5x2IWTTl3rqMHnFdCguNQ0F8Pyi1isuxFetDPJGS9gdDURicOq-Jg17FZ-smC5Yu0Nzyy2toFwgCkPSGaR7VcctSgQbGOCAVIRYm_0C88JzGvW5d5NIjni1s7q7FnKE97MDELT0x=w1280-h720-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yHuitbM5q8nyKOVRh7kNp0fLyFjnSTEGznulMVdHv-_JF5ilXIn5y840astB9M-2wo4JzdUdfNm7fn2ImPtB037IicBjo8NfpZ06ki_1ZJ9-PZosJjFW8tqwK1frc3bEHntPvVl2WgQvj4psfjiuX1NTBmOPHYMRSNr4bl1hpSjchN7yTZO4rIe06bLYFBcEKbXQq51QIiOTp20TWzoO8YwCJqrvqSH5hPd-DhUw5ogiFvHtCMXq7Mza1IdObF4EX7vVKjTWL8vFkiatQqBpkUu4HA6bn6G3ORVDgEoPcJVjlNHWNHWY0Uy3JZqycStaZ-LHZOM-YYTXzJZrRJNWpk-QicdGVz4qGm29ZchzoyKnTXayR4xIwvzElOVvlvbANs8Yk4K3qWp33eoB6NuOkGF2O1q1H13R9NUsT1Q2IvIC2XQ8DfF2Rg6rupL1GuX6NhPqdkp09sI9MZHu1OFCFotbpGY1gEWmo-_JmmulA2f7idGAW5Kv6FrRazVHXrWqQGcB7uz_dXpKwwx0gsUFjUcWaVsh9ri1RJWHmchrVFmAg2ZIVhlRzIQIHwr4yBJLyy6UF8A2z2538JjOwvdsaK4uwrWBftC135wcrSdYvI9g66AjQ-KWS7lclY7_3mBJsRKNTUDDDFdxrmDXsUfKkzDeiHcwXdQY=w1280-h720-no)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on May 20, 2018, 09:32:20 PM
Over the years I've done bits and pieces to it like fitting a 997 GT3 center muffler with custom headers and exhaust valves.
Made my own wheels, turning 16x6 Fuchs in to 17x10.5 by using BBS RS barrels and lips, still have to make the fronts as they will be 17x8.5 or 9 if they will clear the GT2 front brakes.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on May 20, 2018, 09:45:28 PM
I didn't really feel like building the motor so I contacted a fellow Porsche owner who is probably more OCD than me
and thus I trust 100% to do the job right, he had recently taken his motor apart to seal some oil leaks so had done all the research in to what sealants etc to use.
Over the last week he has completely disassembled and catalogued the motor, a few minor problems found but over all things look really really good.
Certainly seems genuine mileage looking at all the components, he questioned the wisdom of stripping the whole thing but I said take it apart, want to know what's inside so here we are.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IPR1fwia6u1uukLjGE6-xiydPG40aIrEx0Zr3X1g3zrPlYTRsZlXoJ22Xusvh1iV_LKvx5mNyymyXjokX-kHzXQc60UrrQXUxbAx4vrJWjWgZ_eMnCus0sJNYx_J0Xt21gF_dUtSd7nq-PFmitcjRi9oFQ6xH_xEBwD1DPBaAVXJluMtljnVExQQQamNu7BZ3AAvPIMb3zPbS6O9PY5KSM23OsReB9Ll8xSW6WGii_yocjB9oKRfG7OAA9wFVfZh8Um5xTmkn3PxLjsm873uhWDWoAmEHSbbHexVP5zwZFehVVXRxRPiFis6Cqk6Y6QzbArJAxmHNJh_-1_yVY-1lj8hf0JSuiW5aSR3eHmVCSOrY98gU3ITTQ-ayoDQhOkQVOt0UDGOB8PIWl28sQ8oVb32fTBbSafgH6utChXadAMirm52UkkoURsZzGsoOOhZvRuUAU-PPzkgBf3F1q4rAWCWUtCQ8cPoRuKo1hXVjOHjZV8oe8yOwaBx0koJOaF9G8Mtiv6rAsSclrtn5-yrx6J96is4nAtFrT4fzT9obEPIJuwPhb0SCyJpZkimaVEE0uWWnx7ijedtXudMFzuF4US9YhKcZ_E2ALBSpe8KaUzCUmFBC7TFtI7wK6rPbeLXbgczOtjDKRTNIzYMSIvQZZgkQFBj2Tb_=w198-h265-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tDMyVuDrz2ot9DIXcLEsVcZnfCIWOpz0m6XtDP84cDsWCjkCqxfYYKYKB5BAQIezXKdOlCPRMvzt1YyrUJhCJQiPShvxSpJxp7CEra4XfQej5EpyRhPemAbcZ0BWT-NMk8tMs-twMZP7QNBBS4BaynNmUZSt3mMK66hRrqPAKoldTjwS9D1SkmCVvp3aqpPQKgiqB-FuVqJ10wUrooq0z6dleql1Ma5usD9CexTM2ENCldLR-9xNqF7meakBjyrHXFafkT3hCqjSj76scejGzNkioXm_1CoMqFXL_SF9smK0CUTSsJhvUw4Rji_eNBP6yGrs6RrKwRrYsGJHUi_hx6Sh2-2CCWpnvGCawHukdw_HLr0NepFTojEYTbO1ThD5XUMVqnffTrEBLn-MPJVM4zWYmamMXhojQEJQSMKhl9GLL0S8s5Wj4DI_ROPRBJ6ASvXsGSmZarzPHcUY0iozt5lUzvw-q1A0Xdf7ecKYBznHC1-fI1BVHqChpD454bo4tWQThN_LgUfYnz2wUE2aYw9zhxYEMVZbbCTGNbMhD53FN1c6_dS33O5MSFgzuN9mmW65frTb7dDIiGzIwTrLi_CQ1692pDeowlXEv0RACLQYjNAyG3-Iug8y8nEBKQYznjS7rW3BYFThSx_kx6IU4KVwqXKN4hw3=w373-h280-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OsyxGpfqFPBbKs5j2gIHexeTDpzo7Rdu-FzoDvvz_zrmWHDCggfztcS2SCz_itMlFkAiR53185LJ6ixqLz2YcEW8fzm9L4shIE7ZQ9zzOPFDHfcu2DAvkArCTqCqctDB1o8QUaFsrDyFJ4TxuiEh2PFXOdBGKVL3pCg3Y1BD0d3yf2ow9_kX2AXAawAOH-Q266JVGlTVyHHIRsSIsTWBkAEa_p_mbGlmSsk58_aAnl7NiZ4w81IXtG9r_ADMqprnwnfXRlcwn0hzPIm3Z6iUoso6F8QR8_rKno2O8ejghaOJrkzgy3DL1rEURzHIN9-0T7pQPDB4kJZgXrTcLYWv7AcaWT3ZztOOBy1sEeQ0_gcs8ltX2OSjRQEYMdu5sSDLERJlICOpVrZ-BaVDOSX1RxBf2RpbjFFsmfh-winlAcPmBTikl6TfC7AyWmMm_vlKzcZEF_n-iXz-9VdS0gb1cb8p24zsZYbA_KZXIm9KFC-UuwBSbkcwbCZA5DOWh4xHS3I6Iz9UVZMEIKO3CeoK-JyyUrbUbLnnUUNVN0M9uGZib36Onerj4Td1Gd68P_BhpW05LQRnv7LVYZfHGqMs9FcHBUjN3UNswvXbbugXAvRRChwtUH3d1EAsLZXieChJvmUGuTH7ZzQOPIUNSMGe-Nvx2p9wEOhQ=w280-h373-no)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: schattenblau on May 20, 2018, 11:27:43 PM
photos are borked

:(
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on May 21, 2018, 06:35:58 AM
Should work now?
I can see them but......
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: VW'n on May 21, 2018, 07:47:38 AM
Yes! Another vert build.
Sadly I can't see pics either.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Period_Correct_ on May 21, 2018, 08:11:44 AM
nice! about time you got to this project.  ;)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: slowburn on May 21, 2018, 12:04:55 PM
pics are good now
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Period_Correct_ on May 21, 2018, 12:21:05 PM
I think John M is still using my Curil T paste for the nose bearing seal, haha I bought a full tube but didnt want it to go to waste... I have sneaky suspicion that he is doing your 3.6 too?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: schattenblau on May 21, 2018, 12:47:13 PM
yes, pix good, thanks

was recently in a friend's revived 964.

it was full of "character"

:laugh:
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: RS ZWEI on May 24, 2018, 09:40:40 AM

Great to see this build up John, thanks.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: DAPPR on May 28, 2018, 05:53:08 PM
I'll be following this with great interest :)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on June 06, 2018, 01:09:01 PM
Last couple of weeks has been a less than glamorous job of cleaning a bench and several boxes full of greasy dirty oily engine parts, as well as cleaning up the case halves so that I can measure the crank tunnel with a bore gauge.
I want to end up with boxes of clean parts, box of parts to be re zinc plated and a box to be HPC coated.
If the case doesn't need line boring and the crank doesn't need cutting the bottom end could be back together within a month.
One of my cams is pitted which needs replacing and at $2500 for a new one I'll probably be going for a set of performance cams instead as well as some head work but that's still down the track a little.
Glad I decided to strip the whole thing, very very nice condition but definete signs of wear present.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ToLyL2JgeOJkXXQGOuq3IkDFwq3vTE2co_wBEamGJv9cQlYYzrtySyPn6zw3oJfQwRx-iyfhAfv_gqCn7zwLT9zoeljRVj_lUxbmgFVBt8ax5xzkRApKufYYqv0bZpdQLOnxpQgizEJlla8wGeeoCF42hZ8B9wpZ7Tm0QKvV8NNSIC3W-W5uYSrtMEfyS6eERXEt3nr1bXFrFo0QtuM3dl9R_WUdD9VGXfRLb_aNn6r9smkelw0wHsc5ds5wxToYQh0IOpAFM1QM1_lc-OV1jhpUc2aZ2qngO3VaoOuxFyoBIj_emUw6Sn4bJbrOrrFE4HCwfoxJ3nLKgGbByJJnm3o3gGtXrNivT_NvvGAmd7h6PexKNcGD58eUO50ba-5ikCeyAZhGyZcUGpxvll_AATwmpZdtu2JoFevR8bIA5kKuMC4k3zHQreG84wYBDRfla10lrlvV-mRT9dOgCloUiz0hgiFiB-bIJ3vWigQgpQyMrLOONHtp5BY_rBGI6QXcRDU_Xy3YUULGxiKIWI3cIvYT2FtwbEUcig1WFoiOgUUNImY7HcuGtQYIjpum7o0YJ6nWj7CK1woW_6yjeO3jGprx7VO0a8GtI6__aMdhEQUioQJXXZM2WzsRABv1cqo5FPxhSAPC86t2Xo3TgZgXASYnGdEygCfL=w1280-h720-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8yQ8u7cAKeG2pXRxSKRk1KALT3iAYYn55nDs2iGZZmE7xFRkA7PXWem95yGwC78DzUnmRWRsiX2HYjyQjdg2HtKDhbSfSjuN3OB8st4-mtEJtf7qcvoENm-9B5U6lrrPbgWC787fzTSrloWOE2Ug3h8ShOuNuk4rBVhPx4YPqUfRlFFYswOxuG3L-oZZNBOjJuoYfpuv5HBoo9OU88Rhs7CtITE9HyyuUolTVKc_VY7l-RPgTY5poZ33amqe3FfgjSNMhY3tZEjrLA7pwj2U1Ka2kb4pCWyyeiWYD1ot3kZbVrU51AiZMEzoyyA_3pJ5bDA3V0OqDhmAU46znjEDGkkPjRDgUzZ0uYPQISe6E6bXpe4NNW1r4gBbAEn_2qMc4xn1PxOcwk2mIo0eU5alYjh3Gn-ZJU46D-ij21hgsCYsl3V8Ss_E6nbbRctHsDenUgqJI5EEW4PLFqQDrIGXdiQKMVk8TmLpma1Y0gq65S74mbP6Q8q7xETtjOcDT7xgTbQTqBooy601pcjC3lygnEIqWzmOpuA2P49lM_9UC2Hu1qdU1OlNejf5d8aJE3kfprHm7TwhwTSq8IyX0c6VzwEUYBGwnTL-imSVaKiAWfDwhriA-HEKOePC5zoaE5b-VnrCdXK1tZEX2uXVSEX8RM13RlZWaEu5=w1280-h720-no)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Worms on June 06, 2018, 04:12:37 PM
Nice! I love the way aircooled flat motors go together... I guess all the work I did on the aircooled VW's has made me biased :-)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Max on July 04, 2018, 10:09:57 PM
Nice to see...
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: dummer on August 31, 2018, 02:55:16 PM
Any news on the motor or the golf took priority?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on August 31, 2018, 03:24:36 PM
Being overseas took priority haha
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on November 25, 2018, 11:34:06 AM
Back from an epic trip overseas and time to get back in to the Porsche. A few changes have taken place and I'm no longer going to back date my car instead going to go back to a 964. (long thought process but essentially they are too valuable now to cut up)
While in the States I had the perfect opportunity to source a front bumper for it as mine came with a fiberglass custom one.
I ended up at a wrecker in San Diego that buys all off the cast off parts from Singer so anything Singer don't use (which is most of the car) these guys buy.
That meant I had about 30 bumpers to choose from and being there I could be picky, sourced a bunch of other parts I'm missing as well along with a pair of the later Aero mirrors.
In Germany I found the original VW MK7 GTD tartan material for the seats so brought some of that back with me as well.
Lots to do and I'm excited to finally make some progress.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: the phantom on November 25, 2018, 01:00:45 PM
nice
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: RS ZWEI on November 26, 2018, 01:33:31 PM
Quote from: 80 Vert on November 25, 2018, 11:34:06 AM
Back from an epic trip overseas and time to get back in to the Porsche. A few changes have taken place and I'm no longer going to back date my car instead going to go back to a 964. (long thought process but essentially they are too valuable now to cut up)
While in the States I had the perfect opportunity to source a front bumper for it as mine came with a fiberglass custom one.
I ended up at a wrecker in San Diego that buys all off the cast off parts from Singer so anything Singer don't use (which is most of the car) these guys buy.
That meant I had about 30 bumpers to choose from and being there I could be picky, sourced a bunch of other parts I'm missing as well along with a pair of the later Aero mirrors.
In Germany I found the original VW MK7 GTD tartan material for the seats so brought some of that back with me as well.
Lots to do and I'm excited to finally make some progress.

Nice John.
With the 964 being the basis of so many back dates it seems a same to another car go the same way. Its odd how 964;s were the least desirable air-cooled 911. The 964 must be one of the rarest? It wasn't good financial times for Porsche back then.
Personally, if my money was on the line - other than a 964 RS - I would have gone for a 993, now though Id go a 964. Time hasn't been as kind to the looks of a 993 IMO.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: schattenblau on November 26, 2018, 03:39:12 PM
production numbers from porsche

https://newsroom.porsche.com/default/en/products/porsche-one-millionth-911-milestone-seven-generations-13735.html

original 81,100
g-series 198,414
964 74,008
993 67,535
996 179,163
997 215,092
991 to end of the 2016 model year: 152,659
   

john;
any plans to upgrade the 964 headlights ?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Period_Correct_ on November 27, 2018, 05:36:47 AM
good plan John.  ;)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on November 30, 2018, 08:51:57 AM
I actually brought with me MK6 GTD and MK7 GTD fabric but decided now to use the MK7 material pictured on the right.
So, plans thus far are make HID headlights, custom 17" Fuchs wheels (rears completed), big brakes and custom interior / seats
Engine going back together stock displacement but with aftermarket cams, intake and will be run on much more modern ECU.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sF0FRuhSriZ5fMdH5Bgg13tuDh4fvbijlelXFTouZiO0H4sz5LTa9wUXvLjvvSBhSIWTNO_87GUpg4cvDY-1PY7in_ywgdK2xrXDltWIvPSUgYmk0MMWdHhVHqwwoXVQ_0TYTIAzTswWomNPaSecizrqCJfnSg1FhSn_wbLnJ4HzdXj3hHABPBLMjiNxSXm_W2J_7fyrj5G5fV1OAm3GRi_GL7MneqIbAwt4bc-fnR_uDg_PKhtjKzbI_u24hGGMH2gvfw66ot9cbQ_YpI2UvMXjLg4co9cBrtKPNekX2b2tZEjsE2d4vvQi06KmgVMOvZMfiBCvDdXJDuKoqI9leI5dbiqF_URpCh8TWhMHp8gNeWUCHcrlyxy3ALJ_KWxfveyJEeIJx3LwQuIMplEs9XLlj7dGqtpDBYANb7OTZQyVSdWW_-xOlbx70VAKaYzM0k0wZ03BPWAeG0GBsY0yZB7F7szB2VJJhfm9y_vYqQbcgIk50_SZxNL54iXNiW3ybRLXhC9NdreQRXeSTIctin46eJ0YZhlXtvscglU6v6Tgc0t9c4rwYg1rz9IXQ_bMkbJmhSP3UbUuhmA0386Rm5adnunzVwsJdw3Ix0FSpfkABRurfgjVungXPNzcJ08ivagffjmcsXWNewWL4OqetJLH=w1280-h720-no)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on November 30, 2018, 09:34:18 AM
Motronic or something else in mind, John?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on November 30, 2018, 11:19:50 AM
Im thinking MoTeC currently but there's literally soo many options these days.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on June 07, 2020, 10:02:49 AM
All good things take time, lots of distractions have come and gone but here we are with another PORSCHE update post YES!!!
I measured the case tunnels with a bore gauge, was able to tighten clearances on a couple so everything looks extremely good, crank measured like new so that didn't need anything but a clean.
Replaced the rod bolts with ARP which meant re sizing the big ends so I thought I might was well do the small end bushes as well, all new bearings through out.
Bolting the rods back on I had 2 that were too tight, in the end it came down to 4 bearing shells being slightly tighter than the others in the packet.
I ended up ordering 4 shells from Porsche since they're sold individually. Problem solved.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on June 07, 2020, 10:21:34 AM
Other than organising a few things that's where things got left till yesterday morning, I headed over to my friends place for an early start to assemble the cases.
We checked the oil sprayers in the case first before dropping in the oil pump and IMS with new timing chains.
Crank was assembled ready to go so that was dropped in next.
(https://i.imgur.com/DUKUXKg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YQhYIHT.jpg)
Double check we had all bearings, seals, chains etc etc and laid out all of the through bolts with their o rings as you only supposedly have 40 mins to bolt the sucker together before the case sealant goes off.
All went like clockwork, torqued the 11 through bolts first and the perimeter bolts after that.
(https://i.imgur.com/zP2SX2i.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sBYy96S.jpg)
From this point I've got the cylinders and heads soaking in degreaser, Ill strip the heads next and figure out what to do with those. Need to also make a decision on what to do about cams as im wanting to extract more power from this thing.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: rambo_005 on June 08, 2020, 04:09:13 AM
It's always nice to see some progress 8)

Looking forward to seeing the next steps...
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Period_Correct_ on June 10, 2020, 06:16:32 AM
Nice John!!! I hope you?re going high stack ITBS!!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/BnNzjQiB7TpYvFjt6 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/BnNzjQiB7TpYvFjt6)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on June 10, 2020, 08:18:58 PM
Not sure yet Nige,  spoke to a guy today with a dyno and formulated a plan.
He's going to be flowing my heads and doing other mods, going aftermarket ECU eliminating Motronic and going coil on plug getting rid of twin dizzys and leads.
Probably running RS cams and so aiming conservative 300-310hp
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Period_Correct_ on June 11, 2020, 10:27:40 AM
Jenveys mate!!!! damn yeah!
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on June 11, 2020, 08:13:18 PM
No, that's just a rip off like many other Porsche parts with their 1000% Porsche tax.
If I do ITBs I'll put my own set together for a fraction of any kit out there.
It's all about building rather than just buying
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on June 11, 2020, 08:31:28 PM
Really looking forward to this coming together.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: robh on June 12, 2020, 09:14:39 AM
I think Motec very over rated these days, so many other quality options out there.

Link gear is awesome and plenty of NZ tuners comfortable working with them.

ECUMaster Black ECU's look to be really establishing themselves in the market now.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Period_Correct_ on June 15, 2020, 07:05:26 AM
Quote from: 80 Vert on June 11, 2020, 08:13:18 PM
No, that's just a rip off like many other Porsche parts with their 1000% Porsche tax.
If I do ITBs I'll put my own set together for a fraction of any kit out there.
It's all about building rather than just buying

Woah! I completely disagree with your "rip off" term John. R&D comes at a price, and these guys have been doing ITBs since forever! I suppose its overkill for your project hence you not seeing value.

Jenvey are born from motorsport and they have pedigree.
https://www.jenvey.co.uk/about/#a-little-bit-of-history (https://www.jenvey.co.uk/about/#a-little-bit-of-history)

When I did my ITBs project on my mk2 back in the day, I used GSXR ITBs which were great fun, however since the size/stack length was'nt ideal it took some time to tune them. In the end I tuned it on Alpha N however I think speed density with a map sensor per cylinder would be ideal. You need to get the 6 map sensors to only send the lowest single value to the ECU and not average them. winning!
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on June 17, 2020, 05:15:21 PM
R&D certainly does cost but at 7k plus shipping and gst I don't see the justification, certainly not for me anyway.
I would sooner put a GT3 intake on over ITBs, consensus seems to say ITBs loose torque low down also.
Have you bought some Jenveys?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Gordo on July 06, 2020, 08:26:43 PM
I have some, but not on a Porsche - they're a nice bit of kit.
$7k seems rather exorbitant for bare bodies - is that a full kit with ECU, fuel pressure regulator, etc. included? The bodies themselves are no-where near that - https://store.jenvey.co.uk/throttle-body-kits/porsche-engine - but then you do have the management, filters, etc. to sort out.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on July 29, 2020, 02:51:21 PM
Not good news for the pistons and cylinders, 0.002" larger than what Porsche says is allowable.
Probably be fine in all reality for the limited use this is going to see but in the interests of doing things properly a new set is going to be ordered.
Comes at a cost though, almost 10K but the upside is I'll be going from 3.6L to now 3.8L and also eliminating the factory early 964 design flaw leak issue between head and cylinder.
Heads are under way, new valves, guides, springs, retainers, keepers etc. They will also be flycut to suit the new style cylinders.
New valves have smaller stems and are lighter weight.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: schattenblau on July 29, 2020, 06:32:20 PM
3.8 RS     ;D
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Period_Correct_ on July 30, 2020, 07:22:52 AM
Quote from: 80 Vert on July 29, 2020, 02:51:21 PM
Not good news for the pistons and cylinders, 0.002" larger than what Porsche says is allowable.
Probably be fine in all reality for the limited use this is going to see but in the interests of doing things properly a new set is going to be ordered.
Comes at a cost though, almost 10K but the upside is I'll be going from 3.6L to now 3.8L and also eliminating the factory early 964 design flaw leak issue between head and cylinder.
Heads are under way, new valves, guides, springs, retainers, keepers etc. They will also be flycut to suit the new style cylinders.
New valves have smaller stems and are lighter weight.

damn! the 3.6 is already quite torquey so this bump up should be really good. Which P&Cs are you going with and any interesting coating?

Sorry to hijack this thread but its quite fitting. My 2.2T with the high comp pistons, wilder cams and ported heads is almost at 100bhp/liter, it made 170bhp at the wheels and still climbing but hit limiter at 6k. I'd like to get a 8k rotor limit and see how she goes....

Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on July 30, 2020, 02:23:10 PM
Going with replacement Mahle ones, looked at the LN Eng Nickies but can't justify the extra cost. 10K on pistons and liners is enough for me.
Should have a nice power and torque gain.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: schattenblau on July 31, 2020, 04:07:14 PM
Porsche and Mahle working on 3d printed pistons

;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3Q41tmOJ0g
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on August 15, 2020, 09:04:53 PM
Finally made a start on the 964 today, the engine has been getting done in the background but the strip down of the body started today. Interior up first, I'll get some zip loc bags tomorrow and hopefully some plastic storage bins for the parts.
I'm tearing most of it apart for a full repaint and colour change.
Interior wise I'm wanting a change from the factory blue to umm, something else. I have a set of MK5 Recaro buckets but a measure up of them today looks like they might be too wide to fit so as a back up my Recaro Pole position style full carbon seats are probably going in.
(https://i.imgur.com/gQGUTRt.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Jto8bFz.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: slowburn on August 17, 2020, 10:46:50 AM
love this
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on October 04, 2020, 11:35:24 AM
Time to get serious with this, sent the car out few weeks ago to have the rear lid gaps corrected as the back of the body was 5-7mm out of square. No evidence of a crash but from what I understand these are pretty weak in the back and simply sliding in to a kerb hard enough can cause this damage with the weight of the engine moving things around.
Gentle pull on chassis machine has everything fitting nicely again.
Cleared space for its return which has finally given me a nice carpeted area to work on stripping it completely for a colour change, not feeling the blue with blue interior.
It will be stripped pretty much to a shell and rebuilt from there up.
(https://i.imgur.com/Mdw1fEQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/cQFa9eM.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: slowburn on October 05, 2020, 10:17:43 AM
watching this build with great interest
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on October 07, 2020, 09:44:42 PM
Since a repaint and colour change is first on the list I'm trying to decide on a colour.
The list so far is
Grand Prix white
Slate Grey metallic
Graphite Blue metallic
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: slowburn on October 08, 2020, 07:52:53 AM
1 vote slate grey >:D
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: dubstar on October 08, 2020, 09:54:52 AM
I vote Sonoma Green
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: rambo_005 on October 08, 2020, 11:01:50 AM
Audi colours on Porsche... Might as well suggest Nogaro Blue.

But seriously, I think any of those options will be sharp on a 964.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: brian on October 08, 2020, 11:04:08 AM
Blue of either hue would be my choice.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on October 08, 2020, 11:19:49 AM
Quote from: rambo_005 on October 08, 2020, 11:01:50 AM
Audi colours on Porsche... Might as well suggest Nogaro Blue.

But seriously, I think any of those options will be sharp on a 964.

All of those are Porsche colours actually  ;)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Period_Correct_ on October 08, 2020, 11:53:19 AM
Viper Green or Miami Blue or Lava Orange
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on October 08, 2020, 12:02:50 PM
Hmm but none of those are on my list.....I do like Orange though, but not for this car.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: RS ZWEI on October 13, 2020, 03:53:21 PM
I vote Slate Grey. Is it going to stay a 964, or are you going to backdate it?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on October 13, 2020, 06:52:45 PM
No more backdate, paint and body tentatively booked to begin February.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on November 01, 2020, 10:25:02 AM
Body now stripped apart from the underpinnings its time to address the panel fit issues. The doors and guards really don't fit that well, at least not good enough for me.
Each panel is stamped with a unique number matching the body number and all of mine except the engine lid match the car so I really don't understand it as there's no evidence of any crash damage to the body work.
Parts of it have been painted in the past but nothing seems to fit very well.
Spent some hours moving the doors around to a point where they look really good, the edge of the 1/4 and door roll in a lot so if you put a straight edge across there's a sizable gap to the body work at that point.
I decided to just block the area down with 120 grit paper effectively using the existing paint to block the thing straight.
Small amount of filler in the rear 1/4 which mostly all wasn't needed.
Front guards have never been off but the RH front cowl has a crack on the edge, another one of those strange things but to repair it the fender needs coming off.
Fender removed there's very minor surface rust to deal with, ill probably remove the other one as well to check that side too.
(https://i.imgur.com/kPWpL5v.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on December 13, 2020, 10:29:30 AM
Finally got the 964 out of where it was stored to get on with the dirty part of the works. Good to have it in the work shop to get on with panel fit and repairing a couple of small rust spots in the window frame.
Remind me again why I keep fixing all this old crap?
(https://i.imgur.com/DOuek7N.jpg)
Once I started grinding on the rust it became a hole and kept growing...with the rust ground away I just made a patch and welded in which then was metal finished ready for epoxy primer.
Quite an odd spot for rust, most probably started as a rock chip and spread from there.
(https://i.imgur.com/r9wdBlO.jpg)
The cowl had a large split right on the edge which was the main reason for removing the fender. Fender had never been off before and no damage in the front end so can only assume metal fatigue causing this, quite odd.
Anyway its just a simple case of welding the crack back up and grinding it back.
Getting the gaps dialled in now before it heads off for paint, was going to paint it myself as I normally would but I just can't be bothered with this one as its just going to take too long and I have the Mk2 Golf to paint as well.
(https://i.imgur.com/Vcs4MRl.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on January 03, 2021, 09:45:37 AM
Bodywork, really don't enjoy it but needs must. Have spent the last few days block sanding and playing around with panel fit on the doors and guards.
The right front guard had to come off to sort out a gap issue to the door and kind of fortunate as I found some rust that was actually worse than it looked.
Cut that area out and made a patch to weld in, some surface rust on the fender to body edge to be removed and treated before some epoxy was applied.
(https://i.imgur.com/uvxhNEI.jpg)
The rest is just boring block sanding using the old paint on it to block it straight with 150 grit.
Most of it looks pretty good, a few areas to attend to like the rear 1/4 to the door which will need a little filler to have really straight sides to achieve what I want.
Full colour change to Slate Grey Metallic has made this old bucket of bolts a much bigger job than what it was going to be but that's how it goes.
(https://i.imgur.com/jKf65Nb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YnFDuf6.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on January 18, 2021, 03:29:31 PM
Getting closer to body shop and paint, only a couple weeks to left. Started looking at all the unbolted parts to be painted and the later aero mirrors I sourced are both different colours so the only correct way to paint them is to separate the bases from the housings.
Made a very crude quick little tool to tension the spring to allow them to be twisted apart.
This will prove its worth more at reassembly to be able to do it in a controlled manner without buggering up the new paint.
Paid dearly for my laziness not putting the car on the lift to strip the engine bay, groveling around on the floor in the blazing heat was no fun.
The body is looking pretty good, great gaps now and panels fit well. Door hinge pins are loose so that hinges do not need to be unbolted again.
Once primed for the final block before paint I'll get it back to strip all of the running gear out and paint it underneath which I'll do here, then let a pro paint the outside.
(https://i.imgur.com/ML5XeR2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nVwQlB6.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Filx on January 18, 2021, 03:55:12 PM
Looking forward to this one!
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: timewarrior on January 19, 2021, 09:51:51 PM
It?s a strong sign that a build thread is good when you?ve put a novel about Vietnam War fighter pilots down to read it  ;D I can?t wait to see this beautiful Porsche in its new colour!
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on March 07, 2021, 10:26:14 AM
Been a while updating this but that doesn't mean nothing has happened, almost nothing has happened.  ;D
Anyway, Engine is still progressing. Heads are finished now. New light weight valves, springs, retainers and keepers.
Valve seats all refaced and new cams ordered, ended up going for 993 super sport cams.
New 3.8L pistons and cylinders $$$.........needs must.
The body, after block sanding that and fixing the panel gaps as best I could I shipped that off to the painter, he did a couple more body repairs but said its a really clean straight body so that's good to hear.
The rolling shell is in high build primer now and they will continue to block sand it. Once its at the paint stage I'll get it back, strip the rest of the running gear out and paint the under body, wheel arches and front trunk area before handing it back for exterior paint..
Went round and round on colours and changed my mind several times but I think I'm there now......for now.....until I change my mind again...
(https://i.imgur.com/DqQmTvf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5EOQTwc.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on March 08, 2021, 05:09:04 PM
A very exciting phase! This is one of my favourite colours at the moment (Pearl Effect Blue LZ5T) but I?m sure you?ve got your own ideas!

(https://i.imgur.com/BGJMbKg.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: schattenblau on March 09, 2021, 02:04:31 PM
I like the primer grey above

;D
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: the phantom on March 09, 2021, 02:09:15 PM
I think the original colour in the opening shot looks very nice
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on January 21, 2022, 01:28:16 PM
Back on this without distractions now, full updates coming to you weekly!!  >:D
This will be the new thread to update each Sunday.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: slowburn on January 22, 2022, 09:50:38 PM
 >:D
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on January 23, 2022, 10:41:18 AM
So, the 964.
Back in January or February of 2021 my painter primed it and then, well it just sort of got left sitting. I got busy with the Golf, he got busy (actually he's always super busy) Didn't really bother me as it was out of my way and I just sort of forgot about it.
This is not a bad thing and here's why, when filler and primer are applied these products shrink over time (most painters will tell you they don't but its 1000% a lie) so the best thing you can do with a high end paint job is to get it pretty straight then apply your material and leave it for as long as possible.
This is what I "should" have done with the Golf but I absolutely didn't want that off the road for 12 months plus so I did the best I could by leaving it for a month or two. Not ideal but for that car fine.

The Porsche however is different and going about it completely different, I did an initial 120 block on it to straighten it up (it was really good to begin with) made some repairs needed and then the painter did a few more bits to it. They then loaded a bunch of filler primer on it so that we can do 240, 400 and 800 grit block without re priming it to a large extent between grits.
What this means is that all that material has cured and settled over the last 12 months its been sitting around avoiding any shrinkage and sink back later.
Anyway, with the Golf done last December I went and saw the painter and told him I'll grab the car back over the holidays to start working on it in an attempt to get the project moving forward again.
Its been agreed that I'll do the 240 and 400 stages, strip the entire car and mount it on a cart. They will then do the 800 stage and paint it. Full colour change and we are going to make it pristine underneath as well so everything is coming out.
More of the same, 240 stage happening.
(https://i.imgur.com/vThS2op.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/W1UzWa0.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on January 30, 2022, 10:17:19 AM
And we're off, more of the same. I'm not really set up for all this dust and even vacuuming regularly the dust just seems to get on everything.
Last opportunity to check panel fit and make any adjustments, so far so good.
Not sure what I'll do with the Azev Type A's on the car but they aren't part of the final vision. I did intend to keep them as track wheels but by the time this is done it will be so mint it probably won't ever see a track.
(https://i.imgur.com/3JGSNul.jpg)
Things are looking really good for a first round of sanding, long way to go but I like where its headed.
Still looking at colours but I'm 99.9% sure its not going to be Marine blue metallic which is its original colour, just doesn't do anything for me.
Still hopeful of paint February / March so there's still time to change my mind a few times.
(https://i.imgur.com/VBNrvWj.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on February 06, 2022, 10:09:53 AM
When I got this car it had a stupid fiberglass tea tray type wing on it so that was one of the first things to come off to be sold.
I found a complete used stock lid with spoiler on Yahoo Japan and shipped that over. Bit of finessing to get the gaps right but pretty happy with it now.
All the panels, doors, sunroof, bonnet & rear lid all have a body number stamped in them so you are easily able to identify if the panels are original to the car or not, fortunately everything is apart from the rear lid.
(https://i.imgur.com/eCaWIDP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KZDhKlP.jpg)
A couple years ago I bought a set of rear pop out windows from an early 911 in the hope I could use them on my car, looking at the window hinges and the stripped body the 3 screw mounting in the rear C pillar is already there as is the mountings on the B pillar. All I need to do is thread all the holes and cut 2 small slots for the window hinges to pass through. Happy days.
The rear pop outs are fantastic for air through flow when you have the sunroof open or windows down, does away with the annoying buffeting you commonly get.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: brian on February 06, 2022, 12:22:00 PM
I've always been a fan of pop out rear side windows.
Weirdly, the magazine road testers are a bit disparaging when confronted by them.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: the phantom on February 06, 2022, 05:37:41 PM
Homebuilt by Jeff pu electric openers on his Alfa coupe rear vent windows, couldn't quickly find the right vid


https://www.youtube.com/c/HomeBuiltByJeff (https://www.youtube.com/c/HomeBuiltByJeff)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on February 06, 2022, 06:19:49 PM
Yeah I used Sharan ones on the Jetta Coupe. Had not thought electric but that's a great idea.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on February 13, 2022, 10:00:54 AM
Since I'm going to be also painting the underside in body colour everything needs to come out, firstly to make it easy and second it will enable me to go over, clean, replace or rebuild every component.
I thought it was fairly well stripped but you soon realise that there's an awful lot more stuff in there and being a small car with AWD they did cram a lot of stuff in to such a small package.
My plan is to mount the body on a trolley I borrowed off Filx so that its easy to move it around and it has something to sit on when the under body gets painted.
The underside just needs to be cleaned and painted, no other prep required....that's what I thought anyway until I discovered that under the front tub and all 4 wheel wells had been undersealed black. Unsure of how things look under the underseal I thought id best remove it back to the factory gravel guard.
(https://i.imgur.com/eFcNwcv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/1OJGADQ.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on February 13, 2022, 02:21:08 PM
Nice. It actually looks pretty good under there.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on February 20, 2022, 10:21:22 AM
Thanks Jon, yes its a really solid body considering the age of it.
Had a go at the underseal first with a big 3000psi water blaster and a rotary nozzle, took it off but was painfully slow so another solution is needed.
I have a lot of experience with waterblasters as that was my main business for many years, hot water always does a better job as far as cleaning goes. Even though its not as powerful the heat seems to soften things meaning less pressure is required to remove / clean the surface.
Needed to get under the body also and with it mounted on the cart the forklift seemed like the perfect solution, look away work safe you're not welcome here.
Great thing about the forklift is that the body can be high enough that you can stand up underneath it.
Sure enough the hot water at 90/100deg C and 1500psi made short work of the underseal, just peels it off. Grease and oil (of which there was plenty) was no match for the cleaning power of hot water. Didn't even need to use any chemicals on it.
The other bonus of using hot water is that the body dries much faster, certainly picked the perfect overcast day for it.
Wet messy job but really satisfying.
(https://i.imgur.com/ca45N7V.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/aiz7ire.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: brian on March 06, 2022, 06:25:08 PM
No weekly update, what's gone wrong, I'm getting withdrawal symptoms
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on March 06, 2022, 07:18:14 PM
You?re not the only one!
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on March 07, 2022, 12:13:11 PM
Hmm it's all turned to s**t and ground to a halt. Will update once resolved. Not looking good.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: brian on March 07, 2022, 12:15:14 PM
Sorry to hear that
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on March 07, 2022, 12:48:40 PM
Quote from: 80 Vert on March 07, 2022, 12:13:11 PM
Hmm it's all turned to s**t and ground to a halt. Will update once resolved. Not looking good.
Oh no :(
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on March 18, 2022, 07:32:59 AM
It's baaaack. The journey can continue.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: brian on March 18, 2022, 08:29:30 AM
Sunday is not far away :)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on March 20, 2022, 10:21:08 AM
Well, that's been a horrible 5-6 week wait. Was trucking along nicely blissfully unaware of the problems lurking.
I had completed the 240 grit block, fitted and gapped all the panels which looked good and was happy with them.
Did quite a few small repairs to the undercoating on the body in places where it had been damaged through normal use, at that point I decided to remove some more of the interior carpet and sound deadening foam insulation......that's when the discovery was made that would stop me in my tracks.
This big crease in the RH front toe board  :-[
(https://i.imgur.com/6N4Snv2.jpg)
This crease was totally visible from the frunk side with the fuel tank out of the way but somehow I just never noticed it. Then of course you start trying to figure out how what and where.
By now I'd had all of the aluminium suspension parts vapour blasted and I knew these had dates on them. The entire LH susp was very late 89 (car was built 03\90) so these would be original. The RH side however was a mixture of 94/95 so all replaced.
These cars have body numbers and all the panels are stamped with the same number, mine is all original apart from the rear lid which I fitted in place of the wing it had.
Both guards had never been off the car, no external body damage at all that has been previously repaired so what ever happened was all suspension / underbody related.
(https://i.imgur.com/BtpJCN8.jpg)
Looking at the body in more detail underneath I found a couple more areas with some damage and it became obvious to me that I should stop and have it measured to see where it was at.
At this point I went and spoke with Greig about putting it on the chassis machine in order to measure it. He was surprised when I showed him pictures of the crease.
Anyway fast forward a month of waiting to get a slot with him and he duly loaded it on the Autorobot. O dear......Not good.
Speculation is a wonderful thing and we both agree that most likely it hit a kerb or suchlike breaking the RH front suspension driving the wheel and tyre in to the inner wheel well which then transferred that energy through to the toe board being the weakest panel. No external damage in the wheel well at all.
You could see tell tale signs everywhere when you started looking harder. With it mounted on the chassis machine only 3 of the 4 clamps made contact with the body and looking at it front on you could see the cowl on the RH side was higher than on the left so that whole A pillar area had been driven upwards. All very very depressing but I knew Greig was the right man for the job.
(https://i.imgur.com/XcyscnR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6fXSoDZ.jpg)
Greig set about pulling on the side rail, out and down so that the 4th clamp would contact the body. With the measuring system in place also the overhead measuring was utilised to measure the strut towers and obviously the underbody. We wanted to ensure there would be no issues wheel aligning this when back together.
In all a lot of work for him but everything is in spec now, made more complex by trying not to do any damage to the external panels we already prepped partially for paint.
He said you will need to re fit everything and re gap everything because there's a strong chance its all moved around so that's where I'm at now.
Got the body back on Friday and started tidying up all the areas where he's been and then I'll re hang the panels one by one to re do everything I've already done.
To sum up I'm really glad to have discovered this now, imagine doing this after you discover it wont wheel align and its all assembled / painted.
One has to remember too that this is also an old car thing, these things have had a life you don't know about and unless you personally know each owner there's no way of knowing what a car goes through during its life.
Main thing is we caught it and its fixed 100% the correct way. No short cuts.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on March 20, 2022, 11:17:58 AM
What a saga. Awesome that you caught it when you did and were able to remedy the damage. Rock on!
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: RobClubley on March 20, 2022, 12:15:03 PM
Wow yeah glad you got it sorted at this reasonably early stage.

I?m slowly discovering more and more about the various incidents my car has had in its life.

It?s still not clear whether or not it has its original roof, for example. And what that implies if it hasn?t.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on March 20, 2022, 03:41:50 PM
Yep, now's the time to fix it properly.
Greig seems to think it was repaired the way they did it was because it would be impossible to repair 100% unless they did what I've done which is strip everything out of it.
You just can't access these areas when its all together in one piece.
I don't think any negative history really matters in the end if its caught and repaired right.
I bet a lot of Porsche's if measured, would be out due to the way they get used but being valuable they will always get fixed, sometimes not how they should.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on March 27, 2022, 10:30:31 AM
Back on the Beetle, wow things have certainly changed shape.
Put the rear lid back on, and as I'd left the hinges on the lid it went back on exactly as it was before but this time round the gaps were no good. Easy enough adjustment though to get it sitting where it needs to be.
Funny enough last time I gapped this I used the old worn out gas stays for the process and since then my new ones I ordered came in. I'd made 1/2mm shims to align the lid to be flush with the body but now with new gas stays the shims needed to be removed.
Bonnet was another story, did not fit at all and took a full day of fettling a mm here and a few mm there with guards and bonnet to get them sitting where I wanted. Still not perfect but it's fairly flush with the cowl and gaps down the sides are pretty even but then nice gaps are really important to me. For some reason I notice that stuff.
Again with new gas stays the hinges were nowhere near where they should be.
(https://i.imgur.com/PRJvqot.jpg)
Doors were better news, the LH door didn't change and the RH door fitted better with no adjustments needed. Happy days.
The RH sill where it meets the bottom of the door and fender was also pushed in quite a bit.
The door and fender alignment was near perfect and looking at the other side I could tell it was the end of the sill that was in a little.
Thankfully there's an inspection cover in the top of the sill you can remove and I was able to get in there with some tools to force the sill back out. No welding a tag on to slide hammer it saving a bunch of work.
The side skirt pretty much covers all of it but obviously the sill needs to be flush with the fender so that you don't have an ugly gap between it and the skirt.
That was one area that always bothered me from the start before I knew it'd had a prang, makes sense now.
Next stages are back on sanding detail with 400 grit at which point it will go back to the panel shop and Greig will take over.
I'll probably switch tack to engine assembly at that point.
(https://i.imgur.com/uUA18IC.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: the phantom on March 27, 2022, 11:13:55 AM
you're clearly blessed with both patience and perseverance!
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on March 27, 2022, 12:11:36 PM
Haha, patience very little. Perseverance and determination I have lots of.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on April 03, 2022, 10:12:06 AM
Kind of back to where I was at before my discoveries. Drilled a couple of 2mm pilot holes in the hinges to body so that after paint these go back exactly where they were. Rear lid and hinges can remain as one so that will get painted as one unit, again saving hassle at assembly time.
My next stage is 400 grit block, to my untrained eye things are looking extremely good but we'll see what Greig thinks.
Started on the roof and now doing all the jambs, inner parts and window frames as well. A stage I skipped when doing 240 grit.
The laborious process of guide coat on and sand off starts again. This time though very little effort required to make all the guide coat disappear.
(https://i.imgur.com/L3xoWx6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/am3EQkY.jpg)
In the boot, or frunk as Porsche people say was another area I avoided from the beginning. Many nooks, edges and sharp bits to rip your hands open on. No fun at all.
Sanding is pretty much done for me now, I'll clean the whole thing with wax & grease remover before I ship it off for paint.
In between other things I can then concentrate on the bonnet, doors and rear lid getting those op to the 400 grit stage as well.
Greig is only going to concentrate on getting the body done first so that I can then start putting it back together.
(https://i.imgur.com/Bxcqvn5.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on April 03, 2022, 10:22:21 AM
In another tidbit of information, for the last several months I've been getting threatening emails from Photobucket saying they will delete all my photos unless I pay. That didn't sit well with me and a lot of photos I'm fine with losing but not of my Ghia and the Jetta Coupe.
PB allows you 250 free photos so the other day I started deleting a lot of what I didn't want to keep and once I got to pics of the 2 cars I did want to hang on to started saving the first 250, then delete off PB and on to the next 250 and so on.
With those now safe I knew somewhere I had pictures of the 964 when bought at auction in 2013, found those as well and saved them.
No more PB. done with them.
(https://i.imgur.com/yHTZxmz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xngDbt3.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on April 10, 2022, 08:47:15 AM
Having finished all the sanding I signed up to do the body was nearly ready to go to Greig again, I'd thought about adding rear pop outs more than once and actually bought a pair a number of years ago.
Should have done this mod at the beginning but last minute is better than not at all. All the holes for the hinges and latch are in the body but they are not threaded.
To fit them I just needed to cut 2 slots in each B pillar for the hinges and thread the mounting holes with M5 thread, pretty easy.
Even If I decided not to fit them all of this would be hidden with the normal windows in place.
(https://i.imgur.com/qKBoMvA.jpg)
Windows fit nice, hinge works so I think it will be good. I'm going to have these open electrically mainly due to the fact this car will have hard back Pole position style seats so getting in the back to open the windows will be a hassle, pushing a button will be much easier.
I used VW Sharan actuators on the Jetta but there's some pretty small linear actuators on the market today, will need to investigate what will work best.
Ideally I want the actuator completely hidden when installed and there really isn't much room for one.
(https://i.imgur.com/hALmUqH.jpg)
That's pretty much it for the body, hopefully next time I see it back it will be painted. Still have the doors, bonnet and trunk lid to get ready as well over the next few weeks but mainly it will be concentrate on engine and gearbox.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on April 10, 2022, 05:10:06 PM
The steering rack doesn't leak......yet but now that it's out of the car and on the bench its a good time to deal with it. The seals and O rings are still 30+ years old and maybe it'll never leak in my lifetime but I'm not taking that chance.
All the Porsche places seem to sell the same expensive kit, at 350 notes it seems like too much for a bunch of O rings and pressure seals.
Bunch more interwebz searching later I found a manufacturer in Italy that had kits for well less than half. I'm fairly certain this is the same kit everyone sells with a healthy Porsche mark up.
Anywhoo, stripped the rack and cleaned it, shaft looks really good. Doesn't even need a polish.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q7DrBfX.jpg)
Taking my time comparing seals as I went replacing old with new from the packet. Got it mainly back together and realised I had 2 items left over, looking at where they could possibly go I quickly found the only place for them would be on the main shaft to stop leakage between the 2 chambers. Take it all apart again. Sure enough that's them.
The hardest thing by far was the pressure seal half way down the main tube and the seal in the pressure head. Both difficult to remove and difficult to fit without marking the aluminium housing.  For both I machined a drift from scrap copper bar.
(https://i.imgur.com/ig4dHwi.jpg)
I've had steering boxes and racks apart before but never rebuilt a power steering rack. The power steering pump and all lines will be removed from this car and replaced with the same Electro hydraulic unit as in the MK2 Golf. The Golf has a wonderful feeling power steering which would be nice in this car as well.
Funny thing is Porsche guys go on about using a 997 Cup pump, I laughed when I saw on as its exactly the same TRW Opel unit as my Golf has. Happy days as they are cheap as.
(https://i.imgur.com/Y7AJbOh.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on April 17, 2022, 09:47:12 AM
The body finally gone and out of my way for a while we dragged the engine out. Last time this got worked on was when we assembled the short block over at my friends place but since then everything has ended up back at mine.
When the heads were re done the deck heights were dropped a smidge and with the higher lift cams it would be prudent to check piston to head clearance and also piston to valve clearance.
Not something I enjoy, putting stuff together and taking it all back apart to put it back together again. We'll check cyls 1 and 4 only.
The dummy fit begins, no rings, clips or anything, basically just bolting it together enough to set up the cam timing.
New 3.8L jugs on, new stuff does look good but I'm still getting used to sticker shock on this stuff.
(https://i.imgur.com/fnAXarD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AFH6eql.jpg)
Even this process took ages, this has been apart for soo long that I've forgotten how it goes together so it was a case of fit this, no wait take that off again and so on.
Heads fully re done, light weight small stem valves, new springs, new Pauter retainers and modified to suit the new cylinder design sealing surface.
Chain boxes, cam towers and timing gear on, here too we got right to the point of putting the 2nd chain on and found that it had slipped off the gear on the crank so....take it back apart to put the chain back on.
Nearly there, cam timing can now be set and clearances checked. To avoid boxes of stuff on the floor I've now got some tables sorted to lay things out on as a lot of time was wasted rummaging through boxes to find things.
These air cooled flat six's really are a work of art, so beautifully made.
(https://i.imgur.com/zheYZVE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Dn8Q1p3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/b0nWXyA.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on April 17, 2022, 07:23:38 PM
Man that looks good. Funnily enough most piston aero engines are also horizontally opposed 4 or 6 pot motors and also air cooled.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: the phantom on April 19, 2022, 09:29:33 AM
Porsche did make a flat 6 aero engine in the '80s, it was (of course) wonderful, but expensive compared to some of the stone axe engines available
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on April 19, 2022, 10:23:39 AM
As I've discovered Porsche and expensive go hand in hand  ;D
I was quoted $66 each for 10mm roll pins just last week by one of our friendly dealers, I said that's just impossible for a roll pin.......(worth all of a dollar or two) but no. That price was correct.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: RobClubley on April 19, 2022, 11:59:43 AM
Quote from: 80 Vert on April 19, 2022, 10:23:39 AM
As I've discovered Porsche and expensive go hand in hand  ;D
I was quoted $66 each for 10mm roll pins just last week by one of our friendly dealers, I said that's just impossible for a roll pin.......(worth all of a dollar or two) but no. That price was correct.

I bought a part for the urquattro - it was missing a 12mm wide plastic cap off the vent on the top of the gearbox which meant it was throwing gearbox oil out and making a mess. Turns out it's still a current Porsche part and Armstrong's charged $17.50 for it. If I was in the US I could have got one for $1.50.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: brian on April 19, 2022, 01:27:08 PM
I think EV's might cause a bit of grief to ALL spare parts vendors unless they can charge more for topping up you already full windscreen washer bottle while servicing the car!!!
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Period_Correct_ on April 19, 2022, 02:40:48 PM
did you use any base shims between the case and cylinders?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on April 19, 2022, 08:18:11 PM
No shims, comp is about 11.4 / 1 from memory.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: dubstar on April 23, 2022, 10:04:01 PM
When I?ve had to buy the odd Porsche part for the mk1 (like the very early strut bushes), I have used https://www.porschepartsbyjeff.com/ to find the best price
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on April 25, 2022, 02:58:15 PM
Nice, thanks. I've never come across that site.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Pristle on April 25, 2022, 10:44:38 PM
Quote from: 80 Vert on April 19, 2022, 10:23:39 AM
As I've discovered Porsche and expensive go hand in hand  ;D
I was quoted $66 each for 10mm roll pins just last week by one of our friendly dealers, I said that's just impossible for a roll pin.......(worth all of a dollar or two) but no. That price was correct.

An old neighbour with a Ferrari 308 scour Fiat parts first and only when he draws a blank there does he call the Ferrari dealers. In many cases the box part number may be different but the machine stamp on the parts are the same.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on May 01, 2022, 09:38:23 AM
No update last week as I decided to jump back on finishing up sanding the doors, removing the glue on the insides of the doors etc.
These are now with the painter irrespective if I did things right or not they are his problem now. That concludes all of the body work I'm doing and I'm sure it will be many months before I see a painted body back but that's ok as I have plenty to get on with.
Yesterday my friend John came over to help with the engine, he's been through this whole procedure before and did all the research on what sealants / products to use while assembling the engine to avoid leaks as much as possible.
In the last update we did a long block mock up to enable us to check piston to valve clearance due to me installing 993SS cams, also important as I'm now 3.8L

This involved having the long block together but we didn't bother with rings, gaskets or wrist pin clips as it's all coming back apart when we're done.
Setting up the cam timing is a bit of a procedure but once you get your head around it and understand what's happening its actually pretty easy. Quicly made some manual chain tensioners in the morning to be able to pre load the chains.
The cam gears are infinitely adjustable and my cams require 1.55mm lift at TDC overlap this means the piston is at the top and the valve is starting to open for the downward stroke and is as close to the piston as it will ever get. At that point I need 2mm clearance to the piston.
Using the dial indicator we set both sides to 1.55mm and then used the tappet adjustment screws to measure the clearance.
For what ever reason I was fixated on inlets and totally forgot about checking the exhaust valves. In saying that the exhaust valves are smaller diameter so "should" be ok but we'll be checking those at final assembly.
Pitch is 1mm thread on those so one full turn is 1mm, we had very close to 3mm clearance so looks good there.
Tore the engine back apart after that and now have the job of re cleaning everything, assembling pistons, rings, cylinders and preparing the cam towers for final assembly. More on that next week hopefully.
(https://i.imgur.com/bgfOfwo.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on May 08, 2022, 09:54:21 AM
Engine build day!! Well, yesterday it was at least.
Got everything as ready as I could with all the parts laid out in order on some fold out tables, works better than lots O boxes of stuff on the floor. Having re cleaned everything after our dummy assemble checking piston to valve clearance things were all set for Saturday.
(https://i.imgur.com/OphfXuc.jpg)
The wrist pin clips were fun, hence the towels in the engine to hopefully catch any rogue clips from disappearing in to the case itself.
My friend John had an installation tool for the clips which worked pretty well and certainly easier than if one were to try installing them by hand.
Few missed attempts but in all went pretty good, no profanity so I call that a win.
(https://i.imgur.com/cgEq38V.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WPbNDeY.jpg)
Installed all 6 piston / cylinder / ring sets and most importantly the air guides. Next up are the oil drain tubes and cylinder top sealing rings.
I'm constantly surprised at just how many bits there are to these engines and how many boxes of parts you end up with when pulled apart. I think this engine has been apart since 2019 or so, definitely time to get it together again.
(https://i.imgur.com/7GYmIJs.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2BbJFaF.jpg)
Since the cam towers and heads are a dowel fit I decided to assemble these on the table and then plonk the whole lot on in one hit, seemed easier than trying to line everything up on the engine. Used Loctite 574 sealing compound between the 2 to keep the oil where its supposed to be. I would discover later that I'd need to take all of this apart again.
(https://i.imgur.com/LMvJvjo.jpg)
Heads and cam towers on, beginning the torque down sequence. Copper coat to lube the threads and head nuts for a nice even torque.
What a marvel of engineering this thing is, a real pleasure and privilege to work on.
With all the head nuts torqued down and marked I went back to torque the cam towers to the heads, the very last nut inside the valley of the cam tower wouldn't torque and felt like it was starting to strip.
After looking more closely I realized that when the heads were rebuilt and studs removed / reinstalled they were screwed in too far which meant the nuts didn't have full thread.
Only the studs deep in the valleys had this problem on both sides, even though all but one torqued up this wasn't something I could leave so the only option was to remove both cam towers again.
(https://i.imgur.com/w1NlCiq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wS9BHzD.jpg)
Took the cam towers off one at a time and just backed the 6 affected studs out a couple of turns making them protrude out just that little bit more. As usual cleaning the sealant off everything and getting it ready to bolt back on took the longest but feels better knowing that part is now as it should be.
New Loctite 574 applied and dropped the tower back on. Funny enough no problem torqueing everything down when there's enough thread!!
(https://i.imgur.com/lI2xLjI.jpg)
Finished up here for the day, nearly completed long block. Cams, cam timing and all that good stuff next week.
(https://i.imgur.com/bLwVZfN.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on May 09, 2022, 10:14:59 AM
It must be very satisfying assembling an engine. Great to see another classic being saved and preserved.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Period_Correct_ on May 09, 2022, 10:32:51 AM
oooooh... exciting :D
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on May 09, 2022, 03:02:38 PM
Indeed chaps, satisfying and exciting. Been apart far too long.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: dubstar on May 10, 2022, 05:03:23 PM
Much cooler than a Golf 4-banger
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on May 15, 2022, 03:59:44 PM
Continued on with the engine yesterday but due to a long lunch with friends and a bit of fail on my part didn't get very far with the build, installed the chain boxes, chain ramps and cams.
Got everything together and about to start setting the timing and discovered that the engine would turn so far and start to bind, very quickly realized that the left chain was not sitting on its ramp correctly which as it turns out was caused by the chain coming off half of the sprocket on the crank.
Tried for a bit to get it back on by removing the cam sprocket but that didn't work so both ramps came out making it a lot easier.
Of course the one time use crush washers on the ramp pins had now been used and I did try putting a light smear of 574 on them but that made them too slick causing them to distort when attempting to torque them.
That along with not having the correct allen tool to tighten up the rocker shaft bolts ended the day a little early. Did check the parallelism of the chain sprockets which all seems ok to me.

Not wanting to leave defeated, late in the afternoon I took a trip down to my local speed shop on the off chance he was still there to see if he had any crush washers I needed, success on both accounts. New washers on and torqued to spec no problems.
Everything back together to the point I was at earlier, setting the cam timing.
Didn't much like the amount of variance one can get eyeballing Z1 with the split line of the case so I made a simple little pointer held in place by small grips.
(https://i.imgur.com/NZlC8qB.jpg)
This simple little thing makes lining marks up much simpler, setting the left cam accurately to 1.55mm (Webcam 993SS) took a bunch of attempts but got it in the end. The right cam however was dead on first go.
Literally Z1, pick a hole that fits for the pin and check lift. Couldn't believe it, that never happens. Well, not to me anyways.
My tuner will check all of this anyway prior to first start on the engine dyno as he prefers to set up cams on lobe centers with a degree wheel.
I got a set of RSR seals for the rocker shafts to hopefully stop any leaks from that department.
Not a tremendously interesting update but progress is progress.
(https://i.imgur.com/iU8wJgI.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on May 22, 2022, 09:59:07 AM
Back on the motor, my friend headed over in the morning armed with a couple extra tools we'd need for the job of installing the rocker shafts and rocker arms. RSR seals well oiled to hopefully install them without nicking them anywhere.
The endless potential for oil leaks with these engines amazes me, just so many places these can leak from but beautifully engineered.
Rocker shafts in and torqued, had to cut down an allen key for the two very end ones as its pretty close to the chain housing.
(https://i.imgur.com/28duq3y.jpg)
When I set the cam timing last week I tightened the chain sprocket bolts but not final torqued them, I'm certainly very grateful for the loan of all the specialist tools needed to make life easy and to be able to do it the correct way.
An operation that takes mere minutes to do with the correct tool and knowing its 100% done right. awesome.
With those done the chain box covers went on, solid tensioners I used for the cam timing removed and replaced with the stock hydraulic ones.
Oil bridges fitted to supply oil to the cams and spray bars pretty much wrapped up the rotating assembly.
(https://i.imgur.com/DGM0WAJ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qY5iVS8.jpg)
The afternoon turned in to a fit this part, remove it again to fit something else type of affair. Since I never took this engine apart and the fact it's been in bits for 3-4 years didn't make things any easier.
Lots of looking on Porsche PET for part locations, fastener type and length, searching part numbers etc resulted in only a handful of parts being fitted that took the entire afternoon.
I modified the rear A/C bracket so that it can be fitted / removed without removing the rear crank pulley, the way it should have been done from the beginning.
Installed the tinware I had powder coated years ago, fan shroud, new crank position sensor and new CHT sensor also.
Still waiting on new billet valve covers to be custom made, need to make a power steer pump block off and distributor block off as well. With the MoTec we'll be running Audi R8 coil on plug (12 of them.....gulp) and I'm removing all of the power steering gubbins off the engine to run the same electric Opel pump I have in the MK2.
(https://i.imgur.com/G5AiBF2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/l91jMnq.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on May 23, 2022, 10:17:57 AM
Coming along nicely!
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on May 29, 2022, 10:05:43 AM
With the engine at a point where I'm waiting on more things to be plated, powder coated etc I thought I'd start looking at my bench of small projects to be done. One of them being the rear engine hanger plate.
These are notoriously weak even on standard cars and mine was bent on the ends as well, of course a well known company makes a weld in reinforcement plate at a great price but the usual story after shipping it half way around the world it aint so cheap anymore.
This is why I decided to make my own, I have the tools, materials etc and its satisfying making something from scratch.
Found some same thickness 3mm plate in my shop but I don't have a brake for that thickness so the only option is the vise and a BFH. I tried over the edge of my steel bench but it wasn't having any of that.
Scribed out the steel and started bending the edges over little by little, big hammer helps.
(https://i.imgur.com/y5gGDCf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/41If8YJ.jpg)
Trimmed to slip over the mount basically boxing it in, makes it far more rigid and supports the ends where the engine hangs from. I'm actually surprised how weak these are. Took no effort at all to bend the mounting eyes back to where they should be.
Marked out the relief clearance for the crank pulley and cut that out taking in to account a tab to support the middle of the cut away.
Bunch more fitting and trimming later its all looking really good and is a nice tight fit.
(https://i.imgur.com/O7OtoQO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/d8morg2.jpg)
I wasn't going to bother to drill the holes but did in the end, doesn't really need it and certainly won't really make it much lighter but seems more finished that way.
Clamped it on to the original mount and welded it. I could have tig welded it for a nicer look but the Mig is easy and just as good for something that isn't a focal point. Bit of clean up to be done prior to powder coat.
Test fitted it on the engine along with the rear tin which caused me issues with the 997 GT3 muffler. I hadn't taken the rear tin in to account when making the exhaust all that time ago.
Looks like that's easily resolved though and as it turns out I'll be making new headers anyway due to going 3.8L the ones I have are too small.
(https://i.imgur.com/fl8ZRrJ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/p79CoCR.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on June 12, 2022, 10:40:19 AM
Sometimes you spend nearly a whole day working and at the end you look and think is this all I did today, yesterday was that day.
Away at the track last weekend so nothing got done and no clear plan for this weekend I ended up doing bits and pieces.
Got some more stuff ready for powder coating, washed out the dry sump tank and plugged as many holes as I had plugs for. There's only one they need to take care of but I'll be thoroughly cleaning the tank anyway once its back, the rest is the remaining engine tin and a bunch of random brackets.
(https://i.imgur.com/kvfkFBs.jpg)
Quite some time ago I had the engine fan powder coated but due to impurities in the magnesium it looked like a dogs breakfast once they baked / heated it. This was even after a pre heat to boil all of that out. Can't be done they said. Bummer.
I decided to use the powder coat that was on it to hand sand the whole thing smooth and just 2 pack paint it. Easier said than done.
Hours and hours of sanding later it looked somewhat better, ready for etch on the exposed magnesium.
You'll never stop magnesium corroding but this will have to do for now.
(https://i.imgur.com/ztrxQp5.jpg)
Took the alternator apart and someone has been there before as the bearings look quite new but since it's apart now I'm renewing everything, bearings, slip ring (quite worn) and brush box. Don't want to go back there once its all back together.
The fan bearing seems really good so I'll just clean and re pack that with new grease.
The fan / alternator ring still had its factory paint on it, blasted that in the blast cabinet getting most of the stubborn paint off.
2 pack etch on the alternator ring and fan to hopefully slow down the corrosion by sealing everything up, light coat of epoxy will be next followed up with some colour.
(https://i.imgur.com/AwppjpO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Vao1EWY.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on June 19, 2022, 10:21:40 AM
Sunday again already, time for another update.
Rummaged through the left over paint cabinet to see what suitable colours I had to paint the fan with, found some plain silver for the ring and a dark grey from a VW Notchback I painted about 15 years ago. It was going to either be that or Kubota orange (which would look cool too)
Light coat of epoxy, let that flash off and hit it with colour, saves another round of sanding. Wet on wet for small parts like this is actually the easiest way as long as you let the coat underneath dry enough.
Reassembled fan / alternator with all of its plated hardware ready to go back on the engine, once its all together in the car if for some reason I need it to stand out more the blades can easily be removed and painted orange......but I think subtle is better.
(https://i.imgur.com/CALpkl8.jpg)
Had a fight and a half installing it on the engine, the alternator was clocked the wrong way in its housing and no matter what I did the wiring didn't seem to want to fit and sit nicely. In the end 3 attempts was the magic number and it's now back where it belongs.
The air cooled flat 6 doesn't really come to life until the fan is installed on it making it instantly recognizable.
At the same time installing the wire harness on the rest of the engine, it's been so long I had to look at some pictures on line to figure out where everything goes.
Bought a brand new A/C pump but that's waiting on more hardware that's still away being re plated.
(https://i.imgur.com/gKayCey.jpg)
Going full aftermarket MoTec ecu means doing away with the old Motronic and getting rid of air flap meter, coils. leads and twin distributors leaving a distributor hole in the case to block off. Scrounged around for scrap aluminium but didn't find anything large enough. Being the impatient type I am I did find 2 pieces that when combined would work. More work to make but means I can do it Now and complete another job!
O ringed both pieces when machined to size and even found a stainless arm that was nearly the right shape to serve as a hold down bracket. No load or anything on this so it just needs to hold it in place.
Next will be a block off for the power steering pump but I need to buy material for that. An electric TRW pump mounted in the front will replace it.
(https://i.imgur.com/DaXJ2xf.jpg)
That's all on the engine for now until all the materials arrive to build the headers, I already had some but going 3.8L and aftermarket cams, ecu these are now too small but I never really liked the look of them anyway so I'll make new ones.
Next job on the list is the front diff and torque tube, aim is to disassemble, clean, inspect and replace as needed. Dirty oily thing.
Got everything apart and realized I don't have the correct tool to remove the pinion shaft nut so the idea of getting the housing vapour blasted is out the window.
Bearings feel perfect so I didn't feel like creating more work where it's not needed. Started cleaning the housing by hand but that was really slow going, couple hours later and loads of degreaser a good final rinse followed by thoroughly drying and then lubing the pinion bearings to avoid any flash rust starting.
(https://i.imgur.com/yBjsH58.jpg)
Cleaned up all of the related hardware, needs nothing more than new input and output shaft seals, cover O ring and new drain / fill plug washers.
Put the output shafts in the lathe to polish the surface where the seal will run, easy to do and gives the new seal the best chance of doing its job.
(https://i.imgur.com/aEsVBzd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Svo9NXn.jpg)





Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: dubstar on June 19, 2022, 10:40:02 AM
I vaguely remember you saying that you were going 2wd, but definitely keeping it a 4?

Fan looks great, makes the yellow zinc pop more
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on June 19, 2022, 10:52:33 AM
Thanks, yes the original plan was 2wd and back date but these things have increased so much in value I no longer feel the same about cutting it up.
I can't do stock hence modified engine, custom interior and wheels  ;D
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on June 26, 2022, 09:15:55 AM
When I originally purchased the car I bought a bunch of seals and gaskets to tackle the plethora of oil leaks from the engine and gearbox which I never ended up doing. As a result I ended up with a bunch of double ups of quite a few things.
The upside of this is that I already had output flange seals and a side cover seal to be able to put the front differential together.
Glass bead blasted the output flanges and painted those, just need the input shaft seal to be able to mate it back up to the torque tube.
(https://i.imgur.com/W9bGu9Z.jpg)
Disassembled and cleaned the torque tube, cleaned all of the dried out old grease from the shift mechanism and then promptly forgot how it goes back together! Back on Porsche PET to find an exploded view.
As much as possible reassembled and cleaned the boots but I need to order 2 ball socket bushes for the front shift rod to finish this off.
(https://i.imgur.com/jFtWUk5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YQyQA2w.jpg)
Typically with old cars the best way to restore is to take everything apart, throw a lot of it away and replace with new. Porsche is no different, although great quality when new they are still 30 plus years old and just plain worn out.
I'm at that stage where I don't want to leave any stone unturned hence I'm taking everything apart, inspect, clean and replace as needed.
Assembly time of some components can begin, rear arms vapour blasted, new wheel bearings in, hubs glass beaded and painted.
(https://i.imgur.com/BJfFr2Y.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7kXCU7r.jpg)


Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on June 26, 2022, 09:34:02 AM
Double update today just because, this part has been in the making for the last 18-20 months and just is so damn close now.
My painter is painting the body this coming week!!!!
They did the final 800 grit stage and are happy with where it's at, originally we talked about painting the entire thing in one go and then re block the outer panels and flow coat it. This means a smooth as glass, no cutting, no polishing mean as finish off the gun but then Greig rang me last week and told me they would break it down in to more manageable chunks.
Getting around the entire thing while trying to avoid dry spray he felt was too difficult, if not impossible so now they will paint the under body, trunk, engine bay etc, back mask that and then paint the exterior. Bake it a few times and leave it to settle for 2-3 weeks, Then re block the exterior and mask it up to re paint the outside with a couple thinner coats of paint.
A lot of work but the finish is exceptional, hope to have the body back in the next 3 weeks or so all going well. The doors and other parts will follow over the coming months.
(https://i.imgur.com/F3wMmFP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NNZR2qf.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: RS ZWEI on June 29, 2022, 09:18:53 AM
I love the paint stage. Its coming along great John.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on June 29, 2022, 12:28:55 PM
Thanks Nik, yep it's finally happening. It's been far too long.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on July 03, 2022, 10:17:35 AM
With the body still away at the paint shop (1st stage painted now but not revealing....yet  >:D)  I'm tackling random jobs to keep the process going. The more I can get rebuilt and ready the better off I'll be once the body comes back.
Such is the case with the dreaded suitcase, decided to completely pull it apart since I had a new evaporator to go in, leaking or not it was going to be changed as I'm not planning on doing this job again as its fuel tank out to get at it. I was just thinking what a pain these are to get at but I'ts really no different to a conventional car having to pull the dash out to get at it.
(https://i.imgur.com/bgFp4yT.jpg)
Pretty quickly I could see the foam on the main flap and side flaps was toast. Removed all of the clips, both fan motors, all of the wire harness and the servos. My servos seemed to work the last time the car was together but they will be tested before it all goes back together. I am thinking of pulling each one apart though and at least cleaning the contacts due to them being a known problem part.
With everything out of the box I was quite surprised at the level of filth in the box, 30+ years will do that. It will need a thorough cleaning before any repair can begin.
(https://i.imgur.com/Pd7ooZG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/p2TFG4G.jpg)
Absolutely everything removed from the box I treated it to a chemical cleaning and pressure wash. Had to scrub a few places pretty well to get it clean. Did both top and bottom parts of the box and set those aside to dry for a while.
Once semi dry I had a go at getting the remnants of the broken screws out, 3 very rusty screw heads broke off when trying to get the box apart. One could probably just leave them as there's just so many clips holding the thing together.
Tried quite a few tools but there's barely anything left to grab hold of.
In the end I heated the plastic with a propane torch to soften it and then grabbed the rusty screw with a sharp pair of cutters freeing the screws at last.
(https://i.imgur.com/vSLBAXG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sOEpbub.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/aST3l9C.jpg)
The evaporator looks really dirty but does not appear to be leaking. I'm not taking that chance so a new one's going in. They quite commonly leak and even if tested ok who knows in a few years I'll possibly be doing all of this again so no thanks. Replace it while I'm here.
(https://i.imgur.com/JoStqiQ.jpg)
Main flap and side flaps need new foam. For many years now I've used headliner material which is foam backed with a woven layer and that has worked very well for me over the years, plus I have loads of offcuts from doing my own headliners in Golf's and others.
Then it's just a matter of cleaning the old foam off and gluing new stuff on with contact glue.
The side flaps I drilled apart, new foam pieces cut to size and riveted back together again.
While I was there I also took the right angle drive gearbox for the main flap apart, cleaned it and reassemble with new grease.
(https://i.imgur.com/lJvIGgm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oQZwxzO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UV23H2S.jpg)
Para rubber had replacement foam rod to seal the box halves together as well as self adhesive EVA foam extrusion to make a couple needed gaskets with.
Almost ready to put this thing back together, a full days work to disassemble, clean, replace and put back together.
(https://i.imgur.com/2vHaVxz.jpg)
Now the rest of the box could go back together the way it came apart, blew out each fan motor with compressed air (lot of dust came out)
New A/C o'rings on the TX valve, reassembled the wire harness and servos completing this overhaul for now. The entire car will get new o rings everywhere along with a new drier and compressor.
My compressor actually sounds really healthy just spinning it by hand but decided early on a new one is the way to go, I want the A/C to work and amazingly a brand new compressor was only 400 bucks delivered form Rock Auto.
(https://i.imgur.com/yj3nDV8.jpg)
   


Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on July 10, 2022, 10:10:18 AM
Did a job for a friend machining some new adapters to repair his Boss 302 wheels that someone had machined the center bore out of taking with it the piece that the cap clips in to. That at the same time yielded just enough material to make the power steering block off plate for my engine. The pump is driven from the RH camshaft and since my new cams do not have a provision for that drive I can block that off.
Bit of lathe and mill time later we have this, could have just bought one but I'd rather make things where possible.
(https://i.imgur.com/ibNdG8e.jpg)
I did then spend an obscene amount of time making a really nice filler piece for the engine tinware which once finished and fitted I realized was 100% completely wrong. I hadn't taken in to account my valve covers and coil pack so start again I'm afraid.
Don't have my billet valve covers yet so this will need to wait a while.
(https://i.imgur.com/cRGRAZU.jpg)
Being that the body isn't far away I really need to get A in to G and start looking at the wheels it will need to sit on, back many moons ago I made the rear wheels from some 16x6 genuine Fuchs turning those in to 17x10.5 using BBS RS barrels, lips and hardware but I never made the fronts.
I had planned 17x9 for the front and these "should" fit from my measurements I made back then so we'll see. The rears fit as you saw at the beginning of this thread.
Lathe already warmed up from machining other bits I started cutting, first the rims were cut off a pair of 16x6 leaving just the center hub. The factory wheels are forged so are incredibly strong and ideal for converting to 3 piece.
Early on when starting the rears I did consult Lance at Arrow wheels and he confirmed what I suspected, will be no problem doing what I was thinking.
(https://i.imgur.com/MTGvmpj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/z9BRqOY.jpg)
Then its a matter of machining the diameter down so that the old valve stem hole goes away and starting on the flanges where the lip and barrel will locate, once these are done I'm using 32 BBS RS bolts to bolt each wheel together.
While my lathe is big it isn't really big enough to handle anything more than 16" rims which is lucky because once the rims are cut off I'm only working with the centers and the lips are just being put on to check the fit of the flange. All working out so far.
(https://i.imgur.com/VomIjKO.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: McDoof on July 14, 2022, 10:53:39 AM
Thinking outside of the box a bit. Nice work.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on July 17, 2022, 10:03:42 AM
Cheers, still along way to go but like the direction it is going.
Back on the wheels, having machined the outer flange its on to the inner where it needs to locate in the barrel.
Annoyingly this measurement is slightly different by 1.5mm but by the time I reconfigure the lathe with a different cutting tool all my prior settings are lost.
Problem with that is I don't have a large enough measuring device to measure accurately and I cannot test fit the barrel while the center is in the machine. You don't really want to be removing the center for test fitting purposes as getting it all to run true again can be a headache, in essence the whole thing needs to be cut in one go and then removed.
In the end I used a large set of calipers set to the size I need and cuts in 0.2mm increments checking the size as I went with the calipers.
(https://i.imgur.com/bEF2r8r.jpg)
Fairly certain I'm good to go, zeroed the lathe and took the center out, couldn't resist a quick test fit. Then there were 3 wheels!!!
Man these things are going to look ace in RSR finish. Really loving how they are coming together.
(https://i.imgur.com/qerjkkg.jpg)
Last one cut completing the set, test fitted that one as well and looks all good to me.
Final thing left is to drill the 34 holes for the BBS bolts that will hold them together.
For this I used the outer lip, carefully marking and drilling 2 holes so that I can then bolt the lip firmly on allowing the rest of the holes to be drilled.
Still have to paint strip these two centers before I can start looking at anodizing them, seems the best solution is to vapour blast then clear anodize to achieve the desired results.
(https://i.imgur.com/xPYrM9M.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ROiwNTo.jpg)
Final sizes they worked out to are 17x10.5 rear and 17x9 front. Not entirely sure I'll squeeze a 9 in the front but if it doesn't fit it will just be a matter of finding a pair of slightly narrower barrels.
(https://i.imgur.com/aCgJ5X9.jpg)







Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on July 17, 2022, 01:23:31 PM
Wheels look amazing John.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on July 17, 2022, 02:35:40 PM
Thanks Jon, I'm really happy with them so far.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: the phantom on July 18, 2022, 10:12:51 AM
are you going to leave them all alloy colour, or paint the areas around the wheel nuts?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on July 18, 2022, 01:40:45 PM
They will be similar to this, all detailed. RSR finish is a matt frosted look, looking in to anodizing next.
(https://i.imgur.com/UwU4lSK.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: the phantom on July 18, 2022, 05:35:25 PM
Quote from: 80 Vert on July 18, 2022, 01:40:45 PM
They will be similar to this, all detailed. RSR finish is a matt frosted look, looking in to anodizing next.
(https://i.imgur.com/UwU4lSK.jpg)

very nice
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on July 24, 2022, 09:50:34 AM
Back on the engine for as long as it lasts, need to completely revise what I did here before. Had a feeling the muffler sat too high when I originally did this so some weeks ago I took some measurements off a friends car to get an idea where the bumper sits in relation to the muffler can.
Unfortunately I was right and cannot afford to wait making the exhaust until the engine is back in the car so onwards we go.
Not such an issue since I have to make new headers anyway, going 3.8L, cams, GT3 intake and MoTec were never part of the plan but sort of crept in as it often does.
Anyway, to make new headers the muffler needs a home. Got the rear tin and engine support back from powder coat so those were installed first.
My rear muffler is 997 GT3 and seems like it hasn't done much work but was fairly dirty so I had this great idea to polish it haha (roll eyes)
Many hours later we went from this:
(https://i.imgur.com/NU7mhYR.jpg)
To this:
(https://i.imgur.com/Wrpfrt5.jpg)
Cut off the mountings I made years ago to start again, made some new ones so that I could place the muffler and get some measurements in relation to where the bumper will sit. Fairly certain that it is sitting correctly this time I made the rest of the mountings to bolt the bracket in place.
Ended up going with stainless tube flattened on the end to have something sturdy that still looks ok. Need to finish grinding it up but this will do for now.
(https://i.imgur.com/NQYFSfN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/i6cdntH.jpg)
Factory straps hold it all in place nicely, headers next.
Unfortunately it doesn't look like I can re use the factory heat shields on the engine as these come down too low but since I have a good set and a broken set I'm thinking of cutting reliefs to clear the pipes in my bad set. Not sure how critical it would be to retain these or not but it seems like many delete them.
The pipes in to the muffler with the vacuum gate valves I can re use, everything else has to be made from scratch.
Bought some nice head flanges and a bunch of 90, 45 and 180 degree stainless bends to start the project with but I'm also still waiting on valve covers to come in so have decided to park this again until I can fully close up the engine first.
(https://i.imgur.com/jsRh2da.jpg)
Update on paint, body is awaiting flow coating, doors, bonnet and rear lid are painted first round. All plastic parts like mirrors, front bumper, side skirts are primed. Rear bumper will wait till the engine is in and I'm able to modify that for the center exit tail pipes.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on July 31, 2022, 10:11:43 AM
Yet another change of attack, seats this week.
The car is getting a pair of carbon buckets custom upholstered in leather with white French seam and black suede inserts.
That was all fine and dandy till I decided that I wanted to change the inserts to MK7 Golf GTD tartan, brought the material back with me from England way back in 2018-2019 and has been sitting around ever since.
With any upholstery I'm not confident to try I give it to Ian Goodwin car upholstery whom I've been using for 20 years or more and he's always managed to do what I'm after which isn't always easy.
At some point I also decided I wanted an embossed Porsche crest in the headrest so I had an embossing tool made, talk about adding complication.
Tool duly arrived and since I don't have a heat press another way had to be found. Did a bunch of trial and error on scrap bits of leather, cold pressing, wet leather cold press, heating the stamp with a torch etc.
Nothing really worked fabulously until I glued a piece of leather on the back, heated the tool to 80deg c and pressed it. That was the result I was after.
(https://i.imgur.com/y6CjsGs.jpg)
Messing around with scrap leather is one thing but on the seat cover I have one shot, that's it. If it gets messed up the entire panel has to be un picked and replaced. To say I'm nervous about doing it is putting it mildly.
Started off measuring to find the middle of the head rest but of course with anything hand made its more a case of putting it where it looks right rather than relying on measurements alone.
Fairly happy with where it was I used masking tape to mark the place where the stamp needs to go once heated.
(https://i.imgur.com/PK2xi3J.jpg)
Well, unfortunately my one attempt turned in to a disaster, uneven press, not deep enough etc. Basically the worst case scenario.
Lots of oh sh.. oh sh.. and furious pacing around in a mild panic as to how I'm going to fix this mess.
Started to look at how the panel could be replaced but soon realized that pretty much the entire cover would need to be taken apart to repair / replace that one piece.
It's done now and no good so no matter what I do it can't really get much worse. Carefully taking my time lined up the stamp again in the same place and re pressed it, still not really what I was after but it improved it.
Put the cover back on thinking I'd leave it at that but no, I can't accept it.
(https://i.imgur.com/vOG6JyT.jpg)
More thinking and pacing around, the cover came off again and I think I know why it came out how it did. The leather cover has scrim foam sewn on the back of it taking up a lot of the compression. I decided to remove the foam (to be glued back later) then try again.
This time in the vise, piece of steel either side and clamped that for a good few hours. Thankfully the center marks I'd made making it fairly easy to line up the stamp again.
That seems to have done the trick for now but we'll see how it fairs over time, I certainly won't be doing the other seat before I'm confident this is the way to go.
Tartan inserts in this does look the way I'd envisaged it to be but was it worth the stress....
(https://i.imgur.com/2d4d73B.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: dubstar on July 31, 2022, 01:07:21 PM
That looks great.  Even on super close-up of the photo.  I like the understated tartan too.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on July 31, 2022, 02:37:01 PM
Thanks, yeah I looked at all the different tartan cloth out there and bought MK6 and MK7 GTD with me but the MK7 stuff was the best choice being white / silver / grey to tie in with the white stitching.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: schattenblau on August 03, 2022, 04:39:58 PM
Great work.

What brand/model seats are those ?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on August 14, 2022, 10:45:29 AM
Not much has happened in the past couple of weeks, no clear plan come Saturdays meant time wasting instead of working. Been crook as well and the body still isn't back.
Plus I've been naughty and purchased another project which has taken a lot of effort to find a solution to ship it here from overseas.
All the components are painted now, just waiting for the shell to be flow coated.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on August 17, 2022, 10:15:29 AM
Sorry to hear you?ve been unwell. Hope you?re back to full health soon. Exciting news about the new project - looking forward to catching up with that one.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on August 21, 2022, 10:14:38 AM
Back on board, not much progress but I've picked up some parts from the painter so there's those to admire till the body comes back.
Yesterday my friend David from David Gouk Race engines came over to test fit the custom billet valve covers he's designed and made right here in New Zealand, the last component I'm waiting on to close the engine up so that I can start on making the headers.
He designed these to work with VW / Audi coil on plug coils and we decided to use R8 coils on my engine and the others he's building so I ended up ordering 60 coils from Rock Auto some time back.
Perfect fit of course, the only thing left to do is laser etch Porsche script in to the top covers that will be visible in the engine bay.
(https://i.imgur.com/YZiGrvy.jpg)
The last item left on my bench of problems are the fuel hoses for the engine bay, still in ok condition but hard as a rock. Various ways of dealing with these and a few companies offer bolt on solutions but I was pretty keen to have a go myself.
Did a bunch of research and ended up coming across a guy right here in NZ that had done the same thing.
The hose is plastic lined and getting that over the fittings is the issue. First off I needed to get the old hose off, you could cut the sleeve and then cut the hose off but I really wanted to save the fittings if possible so instead I used a propane torch to burn the hose off saving all of the fittings and sleeves.
Made a diagram of what goes where and belongs to what with each hose measured and recorded. Sent the fittings off to be re zinc plated to return them to as new condition.
With those away being done I set about ordering the hose, the exact same hose Porsche used is available from Cohpro in the UK, Cohline hose was used by several manufacturers then including vw and audi.
Bought enough hose to do the engine as well as the rest of the lines up front those duly arrived.
Craig had done his before and had actually purchased a tool to press the hose on which he graciously let me borrow, he's actually also a Corrado owner so we have plenty in common.
Fittings back from plating, hose arrived and armed with Craigs press I set about re making my hoses to OEM specs.
The tool consists of two mini vices, one holds the fitting at one end and the other holds the hose. The vices are linked together by a screw thread that you simply wind together to force the hose over the fitting. Ive said it many times, quality tools make jobs like this a cake walk. Really marvelled at just how easy this was.
(https://i.imgur.com/PByucKL.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tJxTVTy.jpg)
The tool has a bunch of different size inserts to cater for many different sizes of fittings and hose, really well thought out piece of kit, I love it.
It was mainly a case of carefully measure, cut the hose, look at the pictures of the old hose, compare to my drawing and finally install the fittings. Pretty easy to get it wrong if you don't pay attention so what I ended up doing was once a hose was done I'd cross out the drawing and delete the photo of the old hose. Seemed to work pretty well.
(https://i.imgur.com/13R4xd4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tE1xiTi.jpg)
Two fittings left to do but first need to install the hose on the engine in order to clock the fitting the right way. Once these are on they are not coming off again and you can't even really turn them once installed.
(https://i.imgur.com/zu6F88f.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: dubstar on August 23, 2022, 12:20:08 PM
Awesome

I really want to do the kjet lines on the Mk2.  Where did you get the cohline from? There was a Ferrari guy selling it in the US, but he was unsure of sizes for VWs. EDIT: just saw you said cohpro uk

Is that Craig Bainbridge by chance? He used to be a vasker, back in the day
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on August 24, 2022, 03:43:36 PM
Correct yep, Cohpro Uk.
Yes Craig Bainbridge, he knew Tristan as well as a few other VASK guys.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: dubstar on August 25, 2022, 12:38:59 PM
Good to know Craig is still mucking around with VWs/Porsches

For the banjo/fuel fittings. Did you polish them up before sending for plating?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on August 25, 2022, 03:23:34 PM
No, I don't even clean anything. Let the platers strip, clean and re plate.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on September 11, 2022, 09:12:21 AM
Well I was never a fan of the marine blue metallic originally on the car so here it is in its new colour. Settled on Grand Prix white after flip flopping between this and slate grey.
In the end I decided that with the level of detail I'm going for underneath white pops much more and shows a lot more detail.
Rubystone was also a brief consideration but future value wise white is just a lot more neutral.
Greig and the guys at Profile Autobody did an outstanding job, the paint almost looks liquid like its just been poured on. The level of detail they went to is simply outstanding. Super happy.
As always Avon towing doing what they do best, damage free towing.
(https://i.imgur.com/FDug0Dr.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/A6ix8BH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iLKJANS.jpg)
Two icons together from the same era, the 1990 964 C4 and the 1991 Golf MK2 GTI. Love them both for different reasons.
(https://i.imgur.com/X3Z2lwV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EYaVlqm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JJsvhSJ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RSYWq1I.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yKSDjSj.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: liv on September 11, 2022, 09:17:02 PM
Pic 4 and 6 - WOW!!!
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: dubstar on September 12, 2022, 10:51:46 AM
Looks amazing.  Good milestone to hit!
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on September 12, 2022, 02:54:53 PM
Thanks Bryce, all that's left to do is everything.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on September 18, 2022, 09:21:53 AM
It's Sunday and Y'all know what that means. Time for the big jig saw puzzle to start going back together.
Main focus is going to be to get the suspension and under body assembly completed so that it can come off the cart its sitting on and go back on its wheels.
Seems the most logical place to start would be the lines in the transmission tunnel, fuel, vacuum, brakes and clutch. I'm deleting the power steering ones as I'll be going electric.
First job is to clean everything, it feels like you spend your life just cleaning but needs must. The fuel lines all looked fine but when I'd placed an order with Cohline for the engine lines I also ordered hose and ferrules to replace the hoses on the hard lines.
Cut the ferrules off and while twisting the hose off it just snapped off!! Anyone with 30yo fuel hoses should take note.
While mine looked absolutely fine they were hard as a rock, thus brittle also.
(https://i.imgur.com/8O98w5q.jpg)
With new hose cut to length and installed with new ferrules I just went next door to my old business to use their hydraulic crimper for pressure washer hose to swage the new fitting on. Simple as that. I did add a spring to the fuel pump end of the hose to stop it collapsing as it does quite a tight 180 before attaching to the pump.
(https://i.imgur.com/XxyLN43.jpg)
With those installed the torque tube and front diff are next, these were dropped out as one unit but I realised pretty quickly it was going to be a headache to install them as the cross bars of the body cart are in the way.
In the end I had to manoeuvre the torque tube in first which only just fit and then attach the front diff in situ. Once that was bolted together the whole unit could be lifted and the cross member installed with a new diff mount.
Rebuilt steering rack next, spent over an hour looking for the bolts only to come up empty. I'll have to buy some temporary ones during the week.
Installed new control arm bushes, put the arm brackets on the car only to realise the steering rack wont go in afterwards. Decided that was enough for the day, an entire day of cleaning and working to seemingly achieve very little but certainly rewarding looking at the results.
(https://i.imgur.com/ABxsxuR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/agzJ76L.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fkzLVXY.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: liv on September 18, 2022, 01:08:58 PM
looking good!  Is there anything that an be applied to the under carriage/suspension/drivetrain components to protect all the hard work and make it easy to clean up back to this kind of result?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on September 18, 2022, 02:51:08 PM
Not sure really but then this will never have the life it did before. Strictly a good weather car.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Period_Correct_ on September 19, 2022, 11:32:07 AM
is that a raw blasted/cleaned finish or a dipped finished of the ally items? they look great!
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on September 19, 2022, 02:03:54 PM
All the aluminium is vapor blasted, leaves it fairly smooth.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on September 25, 2022, 09:58:32 AM
Big pieces always go together pretty quickly, some of the sub assemblies were already together and gone through such as the front uprights, blasted, painted and assembled with new wheel bearings.
Shocks taken apart, cleaned thoroughly, inspected and put back together. In the front it's getting all new suspension bushes, new steering rack rack bushes, brake hoses and anti roll bar bushes. Nothing is left to chance here.
Got some temporary steering rack bolts as I still haven't found those. With the rack in the whole front sub frame can be completed, I'm using anti seize on everything as the zinc plating process strips absolutely every scrap of rust, grease or oils off the bolts.
Next up is the front control arms, I'm using Powerflex here only as I want to retain some compliance in the suspension. Still not convinced its the right move but we'll see.
The lower ball joints were still very tight and look to have been replaced at some point so I'm cleaning and re using them.
Made new gaskets for the strut mount to body and installed the uprights and shocks.
(https://i.imgur.com/vTBCNpu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tSRwauV.jpg)
Cleaning cleaning cleaning is the order of the day. Wiring and ABS sensors mounted, getting closer to having the front end together.
The rear arms vapour blasted, new wheel bearings and ABS sensors installed these are next in line. The rubber grommets on the wiring are perished and just crumbles apart so I'm going to have to find a solution to fix that.
Quite amazing to look at the engineering that went in to these cars for the time, to cram in air conditioning, all wheel drive, dry sump lubrication,  ABS etc in that little body its easy to see why the 911 got larger. Everything has it's place but can make it challenging to work on
Can't help but think these would have been time consuming to put together back then judging by the sheer volume of parts used.
(https://i.imgur.com/cNjVAAH.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on September 25, 2022, 04:55:46 PM
Looks amazing. There?s just something about fresh components going together like that.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on October 02, 2022, 08:53:21 AM
The big pieces always go together quite quickly, as I like to say the first 90% takes 10% of the time.
One rear arm on, still waiting on a couple of parts for the other one and I'm having my rear shocks re plated as the zinc on them look a bit corroded.
I'm not actually crazy far away from being able to set it back on wheels but instead I've decided to keep it on the dolly in the short term as its just such an ideal height to work under it and inside it. I'll just put jack stands under the dolly to take the weight off the casters as these really aren't rated for this weight.
(https://i.imgur.com/KFvePNY.jpg)
At this stage of assembly I do find that you end up working on something, get stuck till you have parts or what ever so you just pick another area of the car to carry on with.
As is the case here, waiting on parts for the rear so I moved to the frunk. Fitting the master cylinder, brake lines, ABS, wiring etc etc etc. The sheer volume of components, fasteners, pipes, hoses and wiring in this still amazes me.
They must have been a very time consuming vehicle to put together back in the day and certainly completely different to modern day assembly techniques.
Not chipping paint is the hardest part, having to slow down and not let frustration set in can be challenging so I try not to set goals to achieve this or that on given days. It just goes together when it goes together.
(https://i.imgur.com/pkPonGd.jpg)
One certainly gets tired of cleaning but thankfully most components just need a good clean, wiring is all still in great condition so all of it can be re used again.
Anything questionable I set aside to either repair it or find a nicer used one, Mike at Autobahn has been fantastic in that regard.
The parts he sends me have been nothing short of flawless, great guy to deal with.
Actually starting to look like something, bunch of brackets and fasteners that require plating so that means moving on to something else again.
(https://i.imgur.com/4NmWtdC.jpg)
Mirrors, took these completely apart to paint them. Made a tool to collapse the spring to enable them to be taken apart so it was just a case of doing this again to put them together. Of course fresh paint making that job just that bit more difficult.
Do love aero style mirrors, just suits the shape of the car soo much better.
(https://i.imgur.com/Bsq8qBG.jpg)

Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on October 09, 2022, 09:27:45 AM
Engine bay starting to come together as well, still waiting on one of the spring plate boots and my rear shocks to come back from plating.
Found my other fuel lines to the filter to complete that side of it as well as the return side that needed new hose crimped on. Again, these looked fine but twist them they just break in half. So glad I changed these. Lots of small brackets for a variety of things in the rear I've sent out for powder coat as they are not nice enough to go back on as is.
Replacing all of the diff lock and clutch hoses so had to order those from the US, also decided to replace the fuel pump at the same time. My one was working fine but with lots of $$ invested in a new engine the last thing I need is lean issues due to a tired 30yo pump so new it is.
(https://i.imgur.com/PeUbFVb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/73QCJ3g.jpg)
The oil tank, man oh man what a saga. I'd plugged all the holes and had it media blasted / powder coated so it needed a thorough wash to ensure there was no media in the tank. Bought every single piece of rubber hose new and once I knew what went where the tank could go in with new rubber mounts.
That was the easy part, next all the hoses, thermostat, vent hoses to the engine bay, dip stick tube etc. Doesn't sound like a lot but when every single thing fights you it becomes all consuming.
Got everything in where I wanted it after hours and hours of work and cursing, happy days again but not for long.
Was looking at the thermostat and realized there was another open port, uhh....
Located the hose that needs to go up to the filter housing and thought ok yeah I'll get that in there...wrong. Goes behind the tank, of course!!!
Had to take everything back apart again to install that one hose so by now I was pretty wild, Should have walked away right then and there but didn't want nearly a whole day of struggle to turn in to achieving nothing as well so apart it came.
Several hours later I could finally stand back and look at my full days work, install the oil tank. Didn't fill me with satisfaction really.
(https://i.imgur.com/oXlxch1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EUCSegl.jpg)
The standing back view is pretty darn good though, no denying that. A pile of bits becoming an awesome Porsche again.
(https://i.imgur.com/CnsYzUi.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: brian on October 09, 2022, 10:38:43 AM
'Awesome' is an understatement.
Be a shame to hit our pot hole ridden roads in this
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on October 16, 2022, 09:24:29 AM
Yes, and the roads only getting worse.

When I bought this car it had an aftermarket GRP bumper on it, then came the whole backdate idea I was going with and finally coming to my senses to stay with a 964 inspired build keeping it a 964 C4. That meant the rear wing and front bumper had to go.
Bit difficult to find a stock 964 bumper in NZ so on one of my trips to the US several years ago I landed up at Autobahn in San Diego and met Mike there. As many of you will know they end up with a lot of the parts Singer do not want.
He took me to their other lot in their golf cart where the keep the bumpers, fenders, doors etc. He showed me an area outside where he had 30-35 front bumpers laid out and said just pick the one you want. Kind of mind blowing to see the volume of parts they had and he's been a great source for awesome quality parts since.
Anyway, ended up with a complete bumper with grill, under panels, fog lights and bumperettes in awesome shape, happy days.
Fast forward to paint stage, with the bumper completely stripped and painted I had sourced all new clear lights, replacement fog light lens as one was broken and also the needed pieces to delete the US spec bumperettes.
Thought it prudent to trial fit those to see if everything needed was there, glad I'm staying with a stock ish looking build.
(https://i.imgur.com/61GJS2l.jpg)
Picked another random thing to work on, the pedal box. Should clean it first I thought.....and that's how things go with me, escalating very quickly to stripping the entire assembly apart to go through it all. Clean it, inspect it, re lube everything and reassemble. Added new pedal pads to my ever growing order list but its one of those items that just needs to be replaced.
(https://i.imgur.com/Gnjzl0m.jpg)
Assembly back together and back where it belongs, by now there's quite a few parts I'm waiting on to complete various things. One downside of living at the bottom of the world. Since the whole global issues of the past several years shipping stuff in has become vastly more expensive also.
(https://i.imgur.com/szR7JG8.jpg)
Changing tack once more, dash work. Dug out the gauges as I remember a couple were pretty average looking, turns out one of them the lens was all crazy cracked and the other the clear film was delaminating and crazy cracked.
At the same time I'd planned a LED conversion and had ordered LED's and the correct fittings (or so I thought) from Aliexpress.
Mostly turned in to a day of fail but started with removing the bezel carefully to get the lens off.
Had some clear polycarbonate laying around that was very close in thickness to the original so used that.
Using the old one as a template started cutting, finishing the shape with coarse sandpaper on a block and finishing the edges with 400 grit but more on that next week.
(https://i.imgur.com/3YuqoAt.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on October 23, 2022, 09:06:24 AM
Back on to the dash, using the old leather as a rough guide I cut out a new piece to be trimmed to fit. This leather seems a little thicker than the original but is all I have so it will have to do. The extra thickness did cause me some grief later on when fitting the gauges but it was too late by then, just have to deal with it and carry on.
(https://i.imgur.com/PnfHBoG.jpg)
The aerosol can contact glue is hopeless in my opinion so I use an old paint gun with commercial contact glue, mainly what I use for doing foam headliners but also great for this. Spray the back of the leather and brush the glue on the metal dash, let it flash a little and stick it on. Leather doesn't really like to stretch very well which is probably why they used a thinner leather here, especially on the underside of the gauge area.
Came out great, nothing too much wrong with the old leather but I wanted everything fresh and new so this was well worth doing.
trimmed the holes and edges next ready to accept the gauges.
(https://i.imgur.com/647lqA0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Z9bXYAn.jpg)
Back to the gauges for now, I had ordered LED's and holders from Aliexpress and proceeded to fit these to the clock which was the first gauge I tackled. That was all fine and dandy, no real issues. Gave it a clean and installed it, very tight fit due to the extra leather thickness but got it there. Rheostat for the wiper speed next, all good.
As I worked my way through the rest of the gauges swapping out bulbs I realized that some gauges have the contact ring for the bulb on the outside of the board and some are on the inside of the board so you actually need dual prong bulb holders which mine were not.....No way to make them work unfortunately.
Quick google online, fortunately a local Jaycar outlet had the correct ones in white. ok, Best I go get some.
This is where the day started to go pear shaped, back with LED's I didn't want to have colour differences so the clock needed to come back out for those to be swapped out.
It was sooo tight and sooo difficult to remove and in doing that my hand slipped and broke the knob off the wiper rheostat. Great!!
No replacement around I also took that apart to see if it could be repaired. (off on the left in the next pic)
(https://i.imgur.com/D76Nleg.jpg)
New lens made for the oil pressure gauge, rheostat apart and attempted to repair that. The solution in the end was drilling a small hole in each end of the plastic shaft and insert a piece of mig welding wire with epoxy. seems to have done the job for now, hopefully it lasts.
Two gauges I made new lenses for, all new LED's and a good clean they can all go back in a freshly trimmed dash where they belong.
(https://i.imgur.com/1oGeVcg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/aU4ziAL.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on October 30, 2022, 09:05:33 AM
Yet again change tack to work on something else, got the A/C pipes in along with a new drier and all new o'rings of course. Cleaned the old corroded aluminium ac pipes as best I could with some soap and steel wool, don't know why really as you'll never see them again but seemed like the right thing to do.
With those in place the fuel door assembly is next, this never fitted well since I got the car and after disassembling it to clean it I realized that the unit is infinitely adjustable to position the door in the fender precisely. Great for OCD people.
Everything cleaned assembly is pretty straight forward. Installing the fuel door I remembered at this point that when I took it apart originally the stud for the latch broke off, forgot to repair it prior to paint.
Looking at the plastic latch its pretty thick through the mounting stud area so I put it in the mill and milled the slot a little deeper so that a nut can grab hold of the remaining stud on the fuel door. Solved.
(https://i.imgur.com/sSRz5bk.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/mrd6CmO.jpg)
The old original fuel bib was pretty scungy so I figured I'd make a new one from some scrap leather, traced it out using the old one as a pattern and made two of these to be glued back to back to give it some structure.
I don't have a heat press for the logo stamp but a propane torch to heat the stamp and then clamping it in the vice seems to work, not ideal but got to work with what you have.
(https://i.imgur.com/H8ukSkg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WnFRR0A.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: the phantom on October 30, 2022, 02:29:30 PM
are you going to use anything to proof the leather against spilt fuel?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on October 30, 2022, 04:54:21 PM
Hmm, good point. Not thought of that. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: the phantom on October 30, 2022, 08:20:25 PM
petrol is likely to wash out any oils you might put on it, some sort of silicone barrier?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: brian on October 30, 2022, 08:29:54 PM
They do sell chemical resistant work boots but how they protect them is probably a trade secret but I suppose it might be possible to find out the answer.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on October 30, 2022, 08:39:30 PM
Could always just not spill petrol on it  >:D
The bib is more so that you don't whack the fender with the Bowser handle.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: the phantom on October 30, 2022, 08:59:51 PM
Quote from: 80 Vert on October 30, 2022, 08:39:30 PM
Could always just not spill petrol on it  >:D
The bib is more so that you don't whack the fender with the Bowser handle.

yeah, but there's always that moment . . .
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Period_Correct_ on November 03, 2022, 09:29:46 AM
yup, it will happen... :D
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on November 03, 2022, 09:56:46 AM
Nice work on the dash. Porsche have the best instrument arrangements IMHO.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on November 06, 2022, 08:10:51 AM
Classic ones certainly do Jon, I do like that layout as well.
The rear shocks were in great condition mechanically but the plating on them was pretty poor, the fronts cleaned up really well to a point I was ok with just re fitting them. Just couldn't fit them as is and it seemed stupid to buy new ones just to have them looking nice.
Looked on line at possibly rebuilding them and having the bodies re plated but then thought they are pressurized so why not just plate them as is? Gas pressure will stop and chemicals getting in and I already know that rubber in unaffected by the chemicals so what could go horribly wrong?
Well, nothing as it turns out, came out like new. Set of new Bilstein decals to finish off and back on the car.
(https://i.imgur.com/lwPzoOZ.jpg)
Next up, the suitcase. Not an entirely pleasant thing to fit. Very awkward and tight fit.
I'd rebuilt this whole thing on the bench with a new evaporator as I never want to touch this thing ever again, slow and steady was the plan. Towels on the paint taking my time getting it back in there.
As it turns out there were a couple retaining screws on the inside I'd put back in their locations when I removed it and clean forgot about these so I ended up having to remove the whole thing again to be able to get to them.
Second time round it all sat where it was supposed to. My top vent rubber bellows locating tabs are all broken off so that needs to be ordered, I just hope I can get that in there without having to remove this thing again.
(https://i.imgur.com/GOIuX5a.jpg)
Asked a friend to measure his rear badge to make sure this goes back in the correct spot, new badge of course as you do.
Measured and triple checked everything before plonking the badge down. Has it's identity back again now.
(https://i.imgur.com/LwlAl1u.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: the phantom on November 06, 2022, 11:48:01 AM
badges!! that means the end is in sight! what will I do on a Sunday if there's no more Porsche posts?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on November 06, 2022, 12:54:59 PM
Lol end is in sight. You have at least another year of my rambling on left.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on November 06, 2022, 12:56:50 PM
You might have mentioned earlier, but did you consider going to a PDM and ditching the relays and fuses?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on November 06, 2022, 03:51:55 PM
Not me, no. Keeping most of it nice and original apart from the go fast part of it. You might be thinking about the MoTec I'm putting in?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on November 06, 2022, 05:34:00 PM
Yes, I remember you mentioning the Motec. The wiring looks great, but just thought if you're modernising the electronics a PDM could be something to consider. Original is good though.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Period_Correct_ on November 07, 2022, 06:30:17 AM
What is a PDM?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on November 07, 2022, 07:06:46 AM
Power distribution module, bit like a modern Golf's BCM.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on November 13, 2022, 09:30:50 AM
Drive shafts, all needed to come apart and be cleaned. Not a job I wanted to do but needs must and as it turned out that week I'd done new wheel bearings on a customers 930 Turbo and all CV boots on a MK1 Golf so to get to Saturday and do 8 CV joints and boots on my own wasn't very pleasant spending most of the week with grease on my hands and tools. Really dislike that horrible black cv joint grease.
All the joints looked ok, grease a bit liquid so best to change it. The boots were all still intact but noticeably harder and time for new.
The new boot kits are cheap as, Lobro brand same as the original CV joint fitted by Porsche. New grease, clamps and newly plated hardware to finish off a cleaned axle, one done three more to go. sigh...Nearly a whole day of axle rebuilding.
(https://i.imgur.com/bDr7nof.jpg)
Bit of time left at the end to install one side, need to start thinking about getting the car off this cart as I'm really adding a lot of weight now. The cart was only ever for getting it to the painter and back but has been super handy for assembling the underside.
(https://i.imgur.com/vgM6fkU.jpg)
Installed the hood seal during the week, not had great success with ordinary contact glue on these types of seals so I really wanted some 3M weatherstrip adhesive but being in New Zealand where nothing is available or its prohibitably expensive it looked like I'd have to order it from overseas but then found a seller importing gaskets and seals for old US Fords and also stocked the 3M glue.
Ordered that and with a new seal from Porsche I'd be guaranteed of a perfect fit, glue sections at a time to make sure the seal sirs how it should. Another job done.
(https://i.imgur.com/WNyzylE.jpg)
I'd decided it would be smart to order a new fuel pump some time ago even though the original was working fine still, a brand new modified engine and a 30yo fuel pump didn't seem smart hence the new Bosch pump. Wasn't even expensive surprisingly, new hoses crimped on to my OE hard lines and plated hardware the pump goes in. I'll have to drop it down again in order to install the fuel tank when the time comes.
(https://i.imgur.com/6YIeGgv.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: RobClubley on November 13, 2022, 11:26:22 AM
New fuel pump is a good idea. Replacing mine on the Urquattro had fixed all of my running issues.

Loving this build, such attention to detail and it?s great to see it looking factory fresh as it goes back together.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on November 13, 2022, 09:09:25 PM
Thanks Rob, yep just makes sense.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: dubstar on November 16, 2022, 11:53:30 AM
Good tip on the 3M weatherstrip adhesive.  I did all the seals on the mk1 and the top edge seals keep coming off, will hunt some down here
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on November 17, 2022, 09:18:13 AM
It is black too which is better on rubber than the yellow contact glue.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on November 20, 2022, 09:18:10 AM
Starting to really add weight to the body now and have been thinking about getting it off the cart for some time, but its just been so handy working underneath being that bit higher up in the air. Anyway time to get this thing rolling.
My old Azev type A rollers on the process is fairly simple, raise the car on jack stands so that it clears the pins on the cart, pull the cart out from under it and start dropping the front / rear bit by bit.
Still a bit nerve wracking dealing with something that is fairly pristine but all went well I'm happy to say.
Car back on the ground I can start concentrating on the interior and getting the doors on and built out, first job will be the headliner.
(https://i.imgur.com/cjPEzla.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JeIpHs7.jpg)
I had been looking for all new decals for the trunk area for a while but either the shipping was ridiculous or the price of the decal was crazy, I mean 20-30 euros to ship a couple stickers is madness.
When I restored my MK2 Golf I got all new decals from OEM car stickers who was awesome to deal with at the time so I contacted him to see what he could offer. He said send me  images and sizes and I'll just make them for you.
We ended up doing a bit of a colab and he now has a full set of 964 decals including the engine bay ones so if anyone needs decals at a much more reasonable price contact OEM car stickers on Instagram or Facebook. Cannot recommend them highly enough.
Even if you need something in particular that isn't available he'll make what you need.
(https://i.imgur.com/bo4LeJz.jpg)
Car on the ground its headliner time, decided I wanted Alcantara so bought the material and made one. Fairly simple, no bows on a sunroof car to worry about. The tricky parts will be the pillars, need these to look right and wrinkle free, Alcantara also isn't stretchy like vinyl.
Just have to deal with the zip in the rear for sunroof motor access, my original one was blue perforated vinyl and luckily the colour of the zip was so close to the charcoal Alcantara that I was able to unpick it to be re used. Had my upholsterer sew that in for me.
First measured the center of the zip and using the old headliner as a reference I got the headliner positioned in the car with bulldog clips, moving it around so that the zip in the back was sitting exactly as original.
Double, triple check we're on center and the zip is straight started pulling things tighter using the clips to hold it front to back. Next up will be to start gluing it in place bit by bit.
(https://i.imgur.com/G89NfvW.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Period_Correct_ on November 20, 2022, 10:29:53 AM
Do you remember Robhs signature from 10 years ago? It might still be the same. ?All that?s left to do is everything?

Really enjoying following this John!
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on November 20, 2022, 11:30:20 AM
Have used that phrase from Jesse James plenty of times, ohh yes there's plenty left to do but progress is progress.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on November 27, 2022, 09:07:50 AM
The headliner install continues along with new back leather on the A and B pillars at the same time.
Headliner positioned where I wanted it after a few adjustments and measurements. Time to start gluing it bit by bit, started at the center of the front screen and then doing the same at the rear to keep things straight and tight before moving on to the sides, working towards the pillars.
Just used bulldog clips to keep it in place as I went along.
(https://i.imgur.com/PAccSXF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xvD7nJE.jpg)
Material isn't too bad to work with, not stretchy like vinyl so its important to keep it tight and wrinkle free. The pillars were probably the hardest to do and have them look right, pretty much tried to copy the factory blue pieces I took off.
Once the whole headliner was installed I could think about cutting the hole for the sunroof. As soon as you cut the hole out the material of course looses its tightness so I used a wax pencil to draw around the sunroof opening so that once the glue was applied I could pull it back to that line and fold it over, gluing it to the roof. Again the corners are the tricky part, for me anyways as I'm no upholsterer but its coming out good.
(https://i.imgur.com/LATXbpH.jpg)
Sunroof opening completed, just the rear window corners left to go now. I'm leaving the C pillars at this stage as I'm still toying with installing electric operated rear pop out windows so I'll need access to that area if that plan goes ahead.
I have the windows from an early car as well as made the slots in the B post for the hinges but that's as far as I got.
(https://i.imgur.com/4g2bYvU.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/A3rH2RQ.jpg)

Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on December 04, 2022, 09:17:36 AM
Decided to do something different for the dash inserts, rather than blue / black I wanted to tie in some of the plaid material from the seats.
Been thinking about this idea for a while but wasn't sure if it would be too much so the only way to see how it would look is to do it, started with the small piece on the drivers side first. Quite tricky lining everything up and making sure the lines are straight.
Switches in temporarily to hold it in place I really like the look of it, planning to do a carbon fiber knee pad to tie it all together.
I'll also be using some plaid accents in the doors, most likely a continuation of the dash strip in to the door.
(https://i.imgur.com/62mPpk0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JFBWVMr.jpg)
Center piece next, this material doesn't stretch at all making this panel quite difficult in the corners but luckily this is all hidden by the radio and climate control unit.
All the switches in just holding it in place for now, still have to remove this again to add some glue to stick it down permanently.
Other pieces done and installed I felt the glove box door needed something extra to break up the plaid so after a lot of searching I found a really nice 3D Porsche badge in silver / black that should be ideal for that once it arrives.
The dash pad itself was blue originally but this will be going black leather with a white French seam over the gauge pod to match the stitching in the carbon seats i'm using. The flat part of the dash nearer the windscreen will be alcantara. I'm going to leave this part to a pro upholsterer as I have no desire to waste materials trying to do it myself. Getting that French seam to look right will be pretty challenging.
Over all I like where its going, progress is slow but it's moving along.
(https://i.imgur.com/bTNk4Ns.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Vjl5NKw.jpg)

Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: RobClubley on December 04, 2022, 11:22:06 AM
Love it that will look fantastic.
Have you seen Home Built by Jeff on YouTube? He did purple tartan on his seats and dash panel of his 911.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on December 05, 2022, 07:08:17 AM
I've seen bits and pieces yeah, seems pretty common for people to do this on the dash.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on December 11, 2022, 09:20:45 AM
Time to fit the doors, I spent a fair amount of time gapping these panels when doing the bodywork. A shim here and there to get them sitting where I needed them to be.
Of course then you would undo all of that when you take it apart for paint which is why I prefer to pull the hinge pins if possible. That way the door goes back on in exactly the same spot as it was before paint. No damaged hinge bolt heads etc, no touch ups needed.
Anyway, since I'm doing this on my own some masking tape is in order, have to swing a hammer in there to drive the pins back in.
Cleaned off the build up of paint on the hinge surfaces ready for the door to go back on.
(https://i.imgur.com/C9YrcdG.jpg)
A towel on the trolley jack makes for an interesting balancing act but slow and steady wins the race, Get the height just right and start inching it in carefully. Once one of the pins are a little ways in you're pretty well set and the rest is easy. Drove the pins in and next the check rod goes in so that there's no chance of over extending the door.
Door striker adjustments to get the door closing nice and lined up just right.
(https://i.imgur.com/x0AHJix.jpg)
When I took these doors apart I removed the window regulator complete in one hit but no matter what I tried there was no way it was going back in the same way. Thinking it must have been the door lock wasn't in there when I removed it originally.
Anyway, had to take the motor off, insert it in the door and assemble the thing in place. More of a faff doing it this way and on the other door I managed to install the complete regulator before the lock went in.
Cleaned the glass and installed that on its track before cleaning the door frame to slip that over the glass. Few adjustments on the frame to achieve a nice even gap to the roofline.
The solid clunk you get closing the door is pure Porsche quality, copy paste on the other door. Can't wait to put the other trim and mirrors on.
(https://i.imgur.com/1tCMMP0.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on December 11, 2022, 09:37:05 AM
Mint!
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on December 18, 2022, 10:00:32 AM
Having done the headliner in alcantara I couldn't really leave the sun visors in blue vinyl, didn't think painting them black would look very good either so I thought I'd wrap them. How hard could it possibly be?
First attempt was a huge fail, made a template of the shape with masking tape and cut out 2 pieces, sewed those together to create a pocket that the visor would slip in to and then hand sew the top seam closed. Sounded like a great idea but was a massive failure.
I hadn't considered the curvature of the visor so the seam from corner to corner wanted to be straight instead of curved to follow the shape of the visor. Also where the material was sewn together creates a ridge that won't sit flat. No good, time to re think this.
Scrap that idea and cut two more pieces, this time glue them on to each side of the visor so that the join ends up coming together right on the seam and hand sew the entire thing.
(https://i.imgur.com/lvGBm1G.jpg)
Downside with this method is it takes forever and difficult to get looking right / spacing of holes etc. In all a massive struggle but then I'm no upholsterer either.
The 2nd  one went a lot easier as I made a little template out of plastic with evenly spaced holes giving a lot more consistency in the X pattern. Always room to improve of course but for now this will have to do.
(https://i.imgur.com/DsbZDSf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/A6R7cGJ.jpg)
Always difficult finding the holes in the body with a new headliner so in this case I used the old headliner over the top to show where the hole should be. Only get one go at cutting it, get it wrong the whole headliner needs to be replaced.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q0G760A.jpg)
As usual the climate control fan was non op and didn't fancy 300usd for a Porsche one. After a bunch of research I ended up with this Jaguar one, brand new 25 pounds ex UK Ebay.
Took the CCU apart to clean the temp sensor, replaced the bulbs with LED's and had a general look around. Nothing burnt so hopefully it works.
(https://i.imgur.com/XbjaiTW.jpg)
Took the fans apart, housings are identical, fan direction is the same as well. The only difference is the Porsche fan blades are curved vs the straight blades on the Jaguar one.
The Porsche blades fit in the Jaguar motor which is what I ended up doing here, cut the electrical plug off the original one and soldered that on to the new one. Another little job done.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZPXcGT2.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: the phantom on December 18, 2022, 05:41:38 PM
I remember a utoob video about recovering a steering wheel in leather, the guy used a sewing machine with no cotton in to punch regularly spaced holes for hand stirching
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on January 01, 2023, 09:52:11 AM
I have tried that before but it didn't work out that good for me, probably operator error.

A new year and a new post, this will be the year of the 964 getting completed. A lot has been done and it's really starting to all come together now. Been thinking a lot about the door panels and how to change them. The originals were pretty shabby as someone has removed the plastic membrane at some point so the panels got wet pretty much ruining them. I could probably transfer the covers to new boards but to be honest I think I'd rather start fresh with all new.
Bought a sheet of panel board and used the old ones as templates to make these, transferred the speaker mounts, clips and other things over.
Test fitted to confirm fitment, all good here so far.
(https://i.imgur.com/8WLcYok.jpg)
Really don't like the original door pull and door handle on these, not a fan of plain RS ones either so I'm trying to come up with something different here. I do want to keep the original angled sewn lines and also want to incorporate some of the seat plaid in to the doors.
Marked out the sew lines on the door and added the lower bin and handle but I'm just not feeing that look. The door pull handle needs to go. Lots of looking online it seems no one really does anything different other than stock or RS type of thing. More consideration required.
(https://i.imgur.com/IpIQe6j.jpg)
Material choices will be black leather on the angled sewn part of the door, plaid as a continuation of the dash with either alcantara or black leather below that on the bottom half of the door. To break those two a divider is needed so then I started thinking about an anodized aluminium trim to cover where the seam will be. Just made from stock bent to shape which should work well.
Some sort of door pull that incorporates the window switch would be ideal, this is where 3D printing and design would be ideal, something I know nothing about unfortunately.
(https://i.imgur.com/Oq4XL4S.jpg)
In the end at least I decided on material choices and general layout if nothing else. Area in red will be where the plaid goes, just need a solution for that ugly handle. I can live with the lower pocket / bin thing as it kind of works with the speakers.
This is where the door card project stalled for now, more to come.
(https://i.imgur.com/T85QLUu.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on January 08, 2023, 11:05:18 AM
Still planning to do something different with the headlights but to do what I really want I'll need deeper headlight buckets, that's something I should have thought of prior to paint. hmmm. Always something.
But, for now the stock lights will suffice, pulled both of them apart to clean the lenses and reflectors before installing them with the trim rings. The front end is starting to come together nicely, won't be far off putting the bonnet and bumper on.
(https://i.imgur.com/4wdPTqM.jpg)
The old oil cooler bracket was a bit mangled so courtesy of Autobahn in San Diego, Mike sent me a very nice used one with some other parts a while back.  Took absolutely everything apart and thoroughly cleaned everything. Stripped the loose paint off the oil cooler and gave it a new coat of black.
Washed the oil cooler out several times with fresh gas and left that to air dry. I'll probably do the resistor mod as well to have the fan come on a little earlier than stock. The ceramic fan ballast was broken when I disassembled it so a new replacement fitted.
I'm yet to tackle the oil pipes but both of these will get new hoses made and swaged on, my aim is to replace every bit of rubber oil and fuel hose in the entire car.
(https://i.imgur.com/mnO5QhE.jpg)
And back on the car with plated hardware and wiring back where it needs to be. Just the hoses left to do and bumper to fit but I still need a few parts for that.
(https://i.imgur.com/4KxulR0.jpg)
Copy paste on the other side for the A/C condenser, disassemble, clean, new O rings and on it goes. Another couple jobs done.
(https://i.imgur.com/lgBSQWA.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on January 15, 2023, 04:52:48 PM
My car being a 1990 build missed out on the teardrop / aero door mirrors which are so much better looking than the earlier flag mirrors. Years ago I found a couple mismatched aero ones pretty cheap, completely dismantled them to paint all of the components individually for a completely OEM finish.
Removing the original flag mirrors I made a tool to de pin the pins from the connector inside the mirror housing as there's no way to remove the mirror from the door unless you do that or what most do and just cut the wiring.
The connectors are different on the aero ones depending on what year car they came from and both of mine were different so I decided to go an alternative route.
I stripped the harness from the original flag mirrors and compared the servo motors discovering they are the same apart from the length / depth of the tubes in the 3 mounting holes. This meant my idea would work, use the harness from the flag mirrors soldered on to the aero servo motors for a completely OEM solution.
(https://i.imgur.com/4ZB6rlQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bjEU9Sk.jpg)
New mirror base gaskets gave me loads of grief, almost like they were too small and did not want to stay in place on their own, in the end I had to resort to a few pieces of masking tape holding the gasket on the base, feeding the wiring in to the mirror and tightening the mirror to the door almost all the way and then carefully wriggling out the bits of masking tape before tightening the mirror all the way. It really didn't need to be that difficult but it was.
Assembly is straight forward from there, plug the connectors in and fit the glass. Job done.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZDefept.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/E4bhmGf.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: dubstar on January 18, 2023, 08:33:04 AM
They look much better than the flag mirrors
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on January 22, 2023, 08:32:59 AM
with the replacement air intake bellows to the A/C box finally arrived I was able to install that along with the air intake grille, bulkhead panel, fuse box and finally the fuel tank.
So much stuff crammed in to the front, next challenges are the electric power steering pump and spare wheel, I have 2 options here.
Mount the pump where the wheel would sit or run the spare as normal and replace the battery with a nice small lithium unit possibly leaving enough space next to it for the pump. Need to do some measuring there as I quite like that idea if it can be made to work.
Just ordered the remaining bumper parts as well so the bonnet and bumper will be going on in the next few weeks to pretty much complete the front end.
(https://i.imgur.com/j3dbBLi.jpg)
Been working on this next piece for quite a while, had a random idea that I wanted something different for scuff plates and better still if they would light up on opening the door.
Did 2 designs, one with Carrera and the other with Porsche, contacted various companies on having them made which took a bit of effort to find someone that could do what I wanted.
Had a set of each produced and they duly arrived, a thing I had not considered when designing these was the door rubber as I used the original scuff plate as a template which is of course thinner.
Net result was these new ones didn't fit. Rather than starting again I modified what I already had which worked out good. If doing it again I know now what needs to be changed. All part of doing something new.
Over all they could be better and certainly the next set would be but these are going to work fine for me.
(https://i.imgur.com/lDCTcLh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bvciI9V.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: brian on January 22, 2023, 02:16:14 PM
The illuminated scuff plates is a nice touch
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on January 29, 2023, 09:26:47 AM
A/C lines to the rear are next on the list, stock lines up to the engine bay were ok apart from a good clean and new o'rings.
Of course had to remove components already installed to make room to get them back where they belong.
The car is getting to the point where I really have to look for things I can complete as many things are either waiting for parts or components need refurbishing before they can be fitted. Can be a little frustrating at times and as a result you end up wasting time with not much achieved at the end of a given day.
(https://i.imgur.com/R2OIQHB.jpg)

The A/C lines in the engine bay run across the engine which I don't like, it looks messy and kind of hides parts of the engine I'd like to see so I will change them to run along the firewall and to the RH side of the engine.
Cut the ferrules off the hoses and removed them, hose will be replaced with new of course and made to the new length I require once the engine is in place.
The hard lines at the firewall have a 90 deg bend on them that will need to be straight. I tried heating one and straightening it but that won't work so I'm going to cut them off, remove the 90 and weld the end back on to the pipe.
May even make new ends for them if need be, another job unfinished.......
Before anything else goes in the bay I'll need a new sound pad, not sure what to do here, go OEM or something better / different?
(https://i.imgur.com/CjCih5z.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QDyZdEm.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: the phantom on February 01, 2023, 10:57:44 AM
hope you're not affected by flooding John
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on February 01, 2023, 11:46:01 AM
Nah all good here thanks. Kind of thankful I spent time cleaning my gutters 2-3 weeks ago though.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on February 05, 2023, 09:31:31 AM
Power steering solution time, the leaky power robbing power steering pump on the engine is gone along with all of its hoses, pipes and brackets. Should clean up the engine bay nicely with all of that gone.
Originally I'd sourced a Mercedes A class electric pump for this car but then when I built the MK2 Golf I installed an Opel Zafira TRW pump in that which is load sensing and gives a really nicely weighted feel.
Rather than reinvent the wheel with something new that I may not end up liking I decided to get another TRW pump for the 964.
Porsche themselves used this very pump in the 997 Cup cars so its often referred to as a 997 Cup pump.
Mounting it in the front keeps the lines very short and the battery is right there for power, only thing I didn't want to do was drill and holes on the car to mount it.
Using the TRW bracket I set about modifying that to suit my needs. Once I had my first mounting point sorted I was away. Using an existing hole in a support bracket it gave the pump a home, now to make a support arm for the other side and then I'll use a rubber block to support the base to the floor but it is actually sturdy enough without it.
There's a large rubber plug in the front bulkhead behind the pump for RHD cars that is unused on this car for which I'll make a connection block to run the lines through to the power rack.
(https://i.imgur.com/Tktj7De.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VQsrnBn.jpg)
Some other bits being worked on as well, a friend of a friend does carbon skinning so I've given him a bunch of interior parts to get on with. The door tops, rear 1/4 tops and top dash vent.
These will all be covered with a single layer of carbon fiber, epoxied and sanded to a smooth finish then clear coated and polished.
Here they are after their initial carbon layer application. There will be more parts I get done but don't want carbon everywhere so I'll need to complete more of the interior before those decisions are made.
(https://i.imgur.com/rjjwdML.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IV3q3CV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UYcu7vM.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on February 12, 2023, 09:30:33 AM
When the car was painted the guys went an extra step and painted the insides of the bumper and side skirts satin black, nicely finishes the inside and especially the front bumper is no longer red.
New foam from Porsche to help guide air in to the oil cooler, not sure how much this really achieves but according to PET they are supposed to be there.
Washer nozzles on and hoses attached I'm ready to slap this bumper on, only as it turns out it wasn't that easy.
(https://i.imgur.com/K1LuH2I.jpg)
Messed with it for most of the morning having it off and on a bunch of times. The washer valve for the headlights was jamming between the bumper and bumper support panel causing it to pinch there not allowing the bumper to slip on all the way.
Readjusted the valve orientation and hoses it all went together flawlessly. Great to finally see the bumper and front lights completed after all this time. In my ownership I've never seen this car with a stock front bumper on it.
(https://i.imgur.com/alQqSKA.jpg)
The vision in my head for this car is finally starting to come to life, got a call from Ian Goodwin Car Upholstery to say my dash was ready, that's been a project in itself but as usual he's done a phenomenal job.
Black leather with a white French seam around the binnacle and we did a separate metal top plate covered in alcantara that is fastened to the dash with studs through. This way there's no chance of the leather pulling away on top of the dash due to how much stretch is required. I always wanted a contrasting material on top anyway and now matches the headliner as well.
Add to that the carbon vent when completed it will look pretty ace, can't wait.
(https://i.imgur.com/Ynz0TJh.jpg)
Naturally I dropped everything else to get this puppy in the car, been looking at a bare metal dash for far too long.
A simple process of one nut and 4 screws it fits like a glove.
Job extremely well executed, thanks Ian! He did say he's never doing another one......
(https://i.imgur.com/yl8aLMP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9ABUOt0.jpg)
Last job was to take the center vent apart, clean it and replace all of the crumbled foam on the flaps. A simple enough process on these older cars where you can still actually take stuff apart.
New foam cut from 3mm EVA and reassembled, new foam strip where it meets the vent in the dash completing yet another small job.
(https://i.imgur.com/wcn5LLD.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: the phantom on February 12, 2023, 10:53:45 AM
it must be very satisfying seeing it all come together
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: le mans on February 13, 2023, 07:39:14 AM
Oh yes, that is looking phenomenal.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: McDoof on February 14, 2023, 12:17:09 PM
Another work of art
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on February 19, 2023, 09:41:06 AM
Thanks gents, creeping closer to turning the key all the time.
With the electric pump mounted the next job is to make the hoses, I knew this would be awkward where the car was parked on jack stands. I really did make my life difficult here.
Started out using as much of the factory lines as possible and cutting off the rest, there's a large rubber plug on the RH side going in to the front tub that I wanted to use as I didn't want to drill any holes to run the lines.
Off to the parts store for an initial lot of fittings and hose to then try and come up with something tidy, getting up off the floor for every single thing got pretty annoying not to mention wriggling your way back under the car between the jack stands only to realize you've forgotten something to have to repeat that process again.
The difficulty was mainly with welding the fittings and pipes, I'd have to mark where they go, take them off the car, go to the bench, tack them, back to the car and re fit to check they are ok.
Then take them off again, fully weld and install again to be able to do the next step. Repeat this process 10-15 times it adds up to taking an awful long time.
Another couple trips to the parts store for more bits and pieces, you always need more than you think!
Lines are super short, run through the rubber plug and just wiring the pump left to do.
(https://i.imgur.com/8SZoCmI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fMMkGlj.jpg)
While the front end was up in the air I decided I'd fit the front H&R springs as well, pretty quick and easy on the LH one but also still needed to test fit the wheels I made on the front.
Rears have had tires on them and mounted on the car, they fit fine but the front wheels I only made recently and worked out to 17x9 and added complication by having big red 993TT calipers up front.
So, to test I removed the strut, off with the stock spring and re fitted the strut with no spring, mounted rotor, caliper, spacer, wheel and then use a jack to lift the wheel up in to the arch.
Brakes do not clear the wheels unless I run a wider spacer but that then means the wheels become too wide. I can't really be bothered messing about with it further so I'm just going to buy another pair of stock calipers. My original calipers I used on another car..........
Removed the strut and fitted the new spring, with that reinstalled took the big caliper and rotor off swapping it out for a stock rotor and re mounted the wheel with a 15mm spacer I had laying around.
Good clearance to the spring and I can probably bring the wheel in a little more, 5mm or so as the stock calipers are nowhere near as wide as the 993 ones.
Plan now is to sell my 993TT set and find another pair of stock 964 front ones. At least now I can carry on detailing and finishing the wheels.
(https://i.imgur.com/1b0ZUOI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iLasWCZ.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on February 26, 2023, 09:34:23 AM
Bonnet time, another piece sitting around is better off being back where it belongs.
Pretty much done with the front end for the time being so there won't be a need for much opening and closing of the bonnet to work in this area thus risking damage to it.
Had my neighbour, a fellow car enthusiast give me a hand to lift it on. Funny thing is when you have someone that is in to restoring cars help you, there's no real need to say anything as they already know what to do and think alike.
I'd drilled 2mm guide holes from hinges to body to set the height when everything was pre paint so it was just a matter now of adjusting the bonnet itself to ensure even gaps down the sides etc.
Set the latch and also decided to install an emergency cable in case the hood release ever breaks, no easy way to get it open if that happens so its best to have a back up plan.
(https://i.imgur.com/Hdg0sWu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rlej1O8.jpg)
Decided some time ago I'd do yellow seat belts and probably a couple of other yellow accents on the interior to tie them all together. I've kept the original black belts in case it doesn't work and want to change back but so far I like it.
New belt webbing measured out the same as the original and had a seat belt specialist sew them up the correct way. New webbing instantly transforms how well the belts retract, huge difference.
(https://i.imgur.com/P5LzJqL.jpg)
Lastly a bit more work on the engine, wanted to install the valve covers but ran in to a small issue. The supplied replacement studs are not quite long enough so I will be getting 5mm longer ones to complete this task.
The covers themselves are a work of art, 100% made in house in NZ by David Gouk Race engines, engraved with the logo and anodized black. Of course he designed these to work with the Audi R8 coil on plug coil packs we will be running on this engine.
No distributor and leads to mess up the look of the engine bay, clean and simple.
Added to that I also test fitted the intake runners from Island Works Sweden to be able to adapt the 996 GT3 intake plenum going on as well. This allowed me to make the needed spacers for the fuel rails and finish off the fuel hoses to and from the fuel rails.
Once the correct length studs come in I'll take all this apart again to finish it off permanently but so far everything seems to work out great.
(https://i.imgur.com/hd6Txfs.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on March 05, 2023, 09:22:17 AM
Restoring a car to this level everything you pick up to put back on seems to look old and worn out as is the case with the key but thankfully there's not much that isn't still available new from Porsche.
New key head with light ordered and installed, add it to the ever growing total but needs must. Looking forward to the day I can turn this key and hear this thing start again, the EV world we are headed for will be dull and boring.
(https://i.imgur.com/HWOilkN.jpg)
Last major dash piece to be done is the knee pad, 3 piece somehow needs to become one. I don't smoke and don't carry around junk in my ash tray so this needs to go away for a cleaner more seamless look.
Started out by putting a metal rod through the foam ash tray cover and inserting this in to each end of the knee pads, then tying it all together with a metal strip to give it some structure.
(https://i.imgur.com/KAbscQa.jpg)
Two part foam mixed up and poured in, one of a couple pours to get the shape I needed and to fill all the gaps. I cut the vinyl off the ends of the knee pads to help the foam adhere to the existing substrate.
Once happy with the shape it was still a little wavy and the vinyl on the knee pads doesn't lend itself well to sanding flat so I glued on a 3mm foam layer that is able to be sanded with a block.
This worked extremely well and came out ace, nice and straight ready for the alcantara to go on. Will have white French seams on the ends where the pad meets the doors.
(https://i.imgur.com/bdyzDWc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Nz0pRSo.jpg)

Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on March 12, 2023, 09:23:02 AM
Decided to sell the new backdate windscreen I bought back in 2015 and used that money to buy the correct 964 one I needed, imbedded antenna and the correct size for a gasket with no metal trim.
I've installed plenty of windows in my time and have only broken one or two, both being old windows but something about expensive windscreens makes me more nervous.
As I'd decided to have a go at this on my own I'd need to be very careful, started by applying mastic to the gasket groove for the glass and putting the gasket on the window. These cars have no drain holes in the window frame so the gaskets are installed and sealed with mastic.
With the rope installed I started pulling the rope at the base while trying to put a bit of pressure on the outside with my other hand, got the rope to the top corners on both sides but the window had popped out some at the top and the overwhelming instinct to start pushing it in from the outside is what would potentially crack it, especially in the corners.
Thankfully I stopped at that point and removed the screen for a reset.
Repositioned it in the center of the frame and tried again, still difficult but bit by bit managed to settle it in to place. Took quite a few hits with an open palm to get it to go in all the way. Phew. Seems nice and tight.
(https://i.imgur.com/19Vveq9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QH0jtJA.jpg)
Thankfully I didn't apply mastic to the outside of the gasket, that stuff is horrible and lands up everywhere. Glass in, its time to seal the outside. Blue painters tape around the outside of the gasket to protect the paint and catch the excess mastic. This worked very well.
Flattened the tip of the mastic applicator which allowed it to be inserted between the body and gasket to squeeze the non hardening sealant in. This stuff skins over just a little bit so if you're tidy with the masking there's very little to clean up once the tape is removed. Job done.
(https://i.imgur.com/8yatOaw.jpg)
For the tail lights I'd purchased new lenses but upon removing one I found the housing to be in pretty average shape as well, one tail light had been replaced as it was date marked 1996 but I was going to do both lenses so that they would match.
After a bunch of thinking and looking at ways to salvage them the decision was made to just pony up and buy brand new units from Porsche.....
Expensive yes definitely but in reality the car deserves them.
(https://i.imgur.com/wvvgbOZ.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on March 19, 2023, 09:12:12 AM
Steering wheels, been looking at options for ages and the Momo that was in the car won't cut it. After looking at loads of options I'd kind of settled on a BBS 4 spoke, pretty hard to find these days and almost certainly would need re doing as most are pretty worn and battered but then I stumbled upon something else.
Problem with all modern steering wheels is they have functions that don't work on older cars thus look out of place. The Cayman GT4 however has a really nice basic wheel, no buttons, no paddles etc but of course it doesn't fit..........or does it?
Had a hunch it would be the same fine spline as a Mk3/4/5/6/7 Golf and this is where cross knowledge of brands is handy, the Mk2/3 Golf use a spline adapter to go from coarse to fine splines and I already knew the spline on the 964 was the same as the early Mk2 Golf with the spline adapter because the Momo in the car had a VW boss kit on it.
Couldn't find a manual GT4 wheel so I settled on a PDK one and I'll remove the paddles. Wheel arrived and adapter arrived a quick test fit proved I was right. It fits, but...
Left with a 30mm gap between the steering column housing and back of steering wheel I'd need to make an adapter to fill that gap that would also serve as a horn contact ring adapter. Bit of time on the lathe later,
(https://i.imgur.com/0a4W6pv.jpg)
This presented me with another problem, being that the column housing and back of steering wheel are shaped the round adapter in between looked out of place, probably wouldn't be too bad once black but I figured I could improve it.
Thought about different ways of attacking it, extending the column housing, changing the back of the steering wheel etc but then thought why not shape the adapter the same as the back of the wheel, all rather simple in the end making a ring from flat aluminium.
(https://i.imgur.com/NcMwnlc.jpg)
Much better, still have to fill the holes left by the paddle shifters I removed but that's easy. Removed the wire harness for the airbag and horn contact and now the original horn wire just plugs on to the GT4 contact plate.
I did cover the adapter in leather but looking at it I think I'll remove it again and powder coat or paint it satin black.
(https://i.imgur.com/32rsqLV.jpg)
Fitted I feel it really does look at home, nice chunky wheel feels nice.
(https://i.imgur.com/hoNf4li.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JpzxY5t.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: dubstar on March 20, 2023, 11:51:20 PM
Ingenious! Looks the ducks nuts too
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Period_Correct_ on March 21, 2023, 10:27:48 AM
fantastic!
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on March 25, 2023, 10:09:40 PM
Rear window time. In cleaning the window I found the heater grid to be very dirty and corroded but this seemed to all come off pretty easily with ordinary household Jif. Left the rag pretty black so there was plenty of crud build up on there.
Spent some time checking the grid with a circuit tester and found the most bottom line has breaks in it, I looked at a few different options to fix it but in the end gave up on it as I'll probably never ever use it anyway.
The difference is easy to see, cleaned on the left and corroded on the right.
(https://i.imgur.com/Xh14ODO.jpg)
New factory seal which I was hoping would be pre cut for the heater grid wires but I was wrong, they really couldn't have made that whole setup any more difficult than this.
Used the old seal to lay on top of the new one to mark where to cut the holes and slots for all the wires to come through, still managed to get them a little bit off from where they needed to be but will be ok.
Installed the seal on the glass and connected the demister, tucking the wires neatly in to the rubber.
Was on my own again that day but it went in pretty easy as I had access through the rear 1/4 windows as they are not installed yet.
Settled it in to place with a few taps but the rubber sat a little proud in the bottom right corner which took me a while to figure out that during the install the wiring had got caught between the body and the seal.
Didn't want to take the window back out again so with a fair bit of effort managed to pry the wires out one by one.
Same story as the front seal, masked the aperture and carefully applied the non hardening sealant between the glass and seal as well as seal to body.
(https://i.imgur.com/rjirg0x.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ejVylZm.jpg)
Since fitting the aero mirrors I've been wanting to do 993 color coded door handles as well, I just feel they go well together.
Was going to buy brand new ones as they are not very expensive and fit my 964 internals but after more research found out you cannot buy the 993 chrome bezels around the key slot by themselves.
Found a pair of complete used ones on eBay in the US and had them sent over, both need painting of course but first wanted to create a pair of nice handles using the best parts of the 964/993 stuff I had.
Everything apart and loads of cleaning, 30yo grease gone hard as a rock took a lot of effort to clean off.
Freed up all of the springs and brass key plates transferring my 964 ones to the 993 tumblers as they were in nicer shape.
(https://i.imgur.com/zdcg7yM.jpg)
The passenger 993 handle had a blanking plug in it and several sources online said this just pops out but that isn't the case.
There's a tiny roll pin in the chrome bezel that needs to be drilled out to remove the bezel from the cylinder and the plug can then be removed.
On reassembly I used a 2mm screw instead of a roll pin, does the same job.
(https://i.imgur.com/P3Dw116.jpg)
New base gaskets on and test fitted on the door. Love it, great decision. Maybe ill just leave them this way, one blue, one red! Colours of the Dutch flag.
(https://i.imgur.com/7SYKDUL.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on April 02, 2023, 09:44:22 AM
Back on to the engine, dug out the old manifolds and center section with its overly complicated array of hoses and things.
None of this will be used other than maybe a couple of hoses and a one way valve.
All to be replaced by the 996 GT3 plenums and a 997 GT3 electronic throttle body that will hugely simplify everything and also clean up the engine bay a lot.
(https://i.imgur.com/1VYr1pd.jpg)
Of course as covered before this manifold doesn't just bolt on so I got a set of intake runner stub pipes from Island Works in Sweden, a very nicely machined set of billet parts. These then give you the correct cylinder spacing and also match the plenum pipe diameter to the head diameter.
New 354cc Bosch injectors and 997 throttle body from EFI Hardware in Australia, the injectors also are a drop in with a small spacer tube needed to use the original 964 fuel rails and hoses.
I had also sourced a new 996 GT3 resonance tube for this project but as the 996 engine is wider this does not fit.....yet.
With the plenums on I could measure the width and it looks like about 10mm needs to be cut off each end of the resonance tube.
In the lathe it goes, chop off 10 mm and used a parting tool to machine down one rib on each end to make room for a rubber sleeve and clamps.
Test fit on the engine with masking tape to hold it in place as I'd forgotten to order the sleeves.
(https://i.imgur.com/nwCwE58.jpg)
With loads of room under the manifold I decided that's the perfect spot for a vacuum tank to reside to operate the resonance flap.
A dig in my VAG parts bin yielded a vacuum tank and solenoid from a MK5 Golf R32 used for the exhaust valve flap.
Even used the bracket with a minor modification to bolt up under the manifold. One way valve from the 964 set up re used and a Y connector going to the fuel pressure regulator.
Hopefully I can even use the factory 964 wiring as the original set up also had a resonance flap and solenoid.
(https://i.imgur.com/VWvQkHV.jpg)
The rubber boots and clamps duly arrived it was a case of taking everything apart again to fit these and screw it all together properly.
For the throttle body intake side I need to make a Y pipe and had ordered a 4" alloy donut for this but the slack company I bought it from didn't bother shipping it till a week later of course meant I didn't have it for the weekend.
I can get injectors from Australia that literally arrived the day after ordering but I cannot get an alloy donut from NZ 600km away in a week. Go figure.
(https://i.imgur.com/SDBnVmX.jpg)
So this is where it sits now, next job is the throttle body and Y pipe. Once this is complete I'll take the plenums off again and cut off all of the unneeded lugs and bosses to smooth out the plenums and casting lines then prime and paint them probably in the same grey as the fan.
(https://i.imgur.com/xvBdYBK.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on April 09, 2023, 08:32:34 AM
Time for the intake side of the manifold, ordered a brand new 997 GT3 throttle body for the job which in all reality is just a standard 82mm Bosch unit and surprisingly cheap really.
I have no 3D printing experience so this one is going to be made by hand. Bought half of a 4" alloy donut and cut that in to 4 equal pieces which gives me the tightest possible radius I can buy.
As I would discover later I actually needed 3.75" but that isn't available in a donut anyway so I still would have ended up having to do it this way.
(https://i.imgur.com/D8hsySg.jpg)
Tack all these pieces together to start forming the Y pipe I need, a pity my aluminium welding looks rubbish but it is the best I can do and I'm not patient enough to wait for someone to do a better job of the welding.
Once painted in black wrinkle it will look fine and will be at the back of the engine anyway, well that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!
I did trim off more on each mating face to reduce the diameter some from 4" to around 3.7" making the inlet round again once welded together.
(https://i.imgur.com/m4LiszQ.jpg)
On the plenum side I just made two step down rings to mate up to the intake which worked out well, throttle body flange I was able to just buy and machined the opening to suit the inlet of the Y pipe welding that on as well.
Couple of silicone bands and clamps, everything fits and is ready for a test fit on the engine. Still to source a IAT / MAP sensor which will live atop the Y pipe behind the throttle body.
(https://i.imgur.com/ESOMhOB.jpg)
Put the whole manifold back together to ensure fitment which seems ok, not sure what I'm doing intake wise yet but that will be largely determined by how much room I have left in the engine bay once the engine and gearbox are back in the car.
(https://i.imgur.com/sTcPnOq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qGYYop4.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on April 16, 2023, 09:35:44 AM
Up next is one of those jobs you get part way through and think why did I start this?
Thought it would be a good idea to smooth out the rough cast and paint the plenums to match the fan, a lot more work than what I thought but never the less they are done.
With the intake more or less completed I marked all of the lugs that wouldn't be required so that they could be cut off, felt kind of bad attacking a brand new set of plenums with a sawzall but that was the fastest way to get the job done.
With all of the mounting lugs cut off there's loads of grinding to be done as there's heavy casting lines on each end and in between the intake runners. This all needs grinding away and smoothing out by what ever means.
(https://i.imgur.com/V6UCt3s.jpg)
As both plenums are identical the front vacuum port wont be used so I also cut that off and welded up the hole. Several of the mounting lugs had holes drilled that went deeper than the surface of the casting so a little weld there was also required.
The bulk of the grinding done the entire surface now needs going over to remove the rough sand cast finish.
A variety of tools used here from an 80 grit DA to die grinders with flap wheels, air belt sander and right angle sanders.
In all a whole day of work to end up with plenums that still need a ton of prep before painting.
(https://i.imgur.com/rP4mZcY.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Q2ujTaW.jpg)
First heavy coats of epoxy going on, this will be block / hand sanded with 220 grit to start filling in all of the mess left behind from the grinding process.
I was hoping to get away with just that and being able to finish off with 400 grit but it became evident pretty quickly they would need re priming again for another round of sanding. Didn't help that I got all fussy part way through noticing all the flaws that would be hidden when installed but just couldn't leave it alone. You know, if a job is worth doing its worth doing right.
(https://i.imgur.com/4bH1IN8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Qnhzpoo.jpg)
Re primed again for round two, this time using 400 grit but I'll short cut the final step by re priming again with epoxy covering any sand through to the metal and doing a wet on wet final coat with the grey. Saves another round of sanding and in some ways better as it has a stronger chemical bond.
Too windy outside so have to do this step indoors, not ideal but needs must. Thinned the paint more for the final 2 coats which flowed out super nicely. Over all I'm stoked with how they came out even though it wasn't a great use of my time.
(https://i.imgur.com/D0k8iGM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eceEnBj.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Worms on April 20, 2023, 07:32:49 AM
I'm loving this thread. Wish there was a like button  8)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: ranton-inc on April 20, 2023, 08:01:07 AM
Quote from: Worms on April 20, 2023, 07:32:49 AM
I'm loving this thread. Wish there was a like button  8)

Don't the cool kids this day reply with "F" or Thumbs up emojis  ;D

This is looking grouse, Nice to see the time and effort being put in.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Worms on April 21, 2023, 06:46:12 AM
Quote from: ranton-inc on April 20, 2023, 08:01:07 AM
Don't the cool kids this day reply with "F" or Thumbs up emojis  ;D

I wouldn't know, would I?  ;D
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on April 23, 2023, 09:21:54 AM
I've been using Pro Coat locally for all of the powder coating on this car and recently sent them the rear brake calipers that I'd completely stripped of everything. Factory colour is black but thought yellow would look better and tie in with the yellow seat belts and other yellow accents the interior will get.
Now, technically yellow calipers on Porsche at least signifies carbon ceramic of course but I'll choose to ignore that and do what I want.
Pro Coat completely paint stripped these, powder coated yellow, applied new Porsche decals and then did a clear powder coat over everything.
Results speak volumes of their quality work. As I'd used the front ones on another project I've recently purchased another pair from Autobahn and had them shipped over here, have since stripped those and sent them in to be done.
(https://i.imgur.com/Us6VDlh.jpg)
Pistons were unmarked, just required a good polish and assembled them with new seals, re plated bleed screws and fitted new brake pads.
Ready to go back on the car, slowly this thing is coming together.
(https://i.imgur.com/EiIfLw4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2afKF7s.jpg)
With the painted intakes having cured for an agonisingly long week that could finally be put together, painted the Y pipe I made in black wrinkle which has done a great job of hiding my crappy looking welds.
I did add a MAP sensor with integrated IAT sensor as well right behind the throttle body.
Surprisingly difficult lining up all of the hose clamps so that they appear straight and the screw fittings all line up, yes I'm that anal!
Bracket for the sensors attached and throttle body on the entire intake is finally complete and ready to be plopped on the engine.
I'll probably need to make a small vacuum manifold for the one open port on the manifold but I'll do that once I know how many vacuum references I need.
Not sure yet if I'll delete the charcoal vapour recovery system or not, if I can hide it away and looks tidy I'll probably run it.
(https://i.imgur.com/ncXIkh9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/k1zn9FV.jpg)
Back where it belongs hopefully for the final time. Next small job will be making a cover plate for the back of the fan as that ugly engine bay mounted blower is going away as well. No heat required in a car I'll only drive in nice weather.
Looking at it yesterday makes me realize just how much there is left to do before this can go on the engine dyno for tuning but each step no matter how small gets me closer.
Limited time and wanting to do everything myself can slow things down a lot but it is what it is.
(https://i.imgur.com/jiw1IhH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ofCx9jY.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on April 30, 2023, 10:17:44 AM
Not much of an update today unfortunately, fact is I've caught up with posting and run out of material.
The next big thing is the exhaust, I need 3:1 merged collectors and I'm too tight to spend 500+ buying them so I've ordered the materials I need to make some. Still difficult enough to find at a reasonable price but a company in Australia had what I needed.
Once those are in I'll make a cutting jig for them and get going on that project.
Yesterday I spent a frustrating few hours installing longer studs for the billet valve covers and found the covers would not go on anymore, the cause being some of the studs are not straight. Tried in vain to straighten a few of them but it just annoyed me even more when that didn't work either. The issue being that the new ones are a fair bit longer so if they are even a little bit off the covers won't go on and I'm reluctant to use bolts threading in and out of aluminium constantly when doing valve adjustments.
So, got online and ordered new ones, at least now I know what to look out for and hopefully these work.
Looking around at what else to do to salvage the day I thought id start pulling the gearbox apart, started with the longtudenal diff lock housing and once this was off was pleasantly surprised to find all of the clutch discs in tact and seemingly in good shape.
The planetary gear which is often damaged on these due to the pins coming out looks great also but 2 of the pins were coming out and the 3rd is also loose.
Once cleaned I'll tig weld these in place on both sides stopping that from happening in the future.
(https://i.imgur.com/cjOif8h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/E4T1azg.jpg)

Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on June 18, 2023, 09:09:57 AM
Shocked to see it's been nearly 2 months since an update, let me fill you in on what has been happening or lack there of.
That company in Australia I mentioned last update, they are responsible. Car Mods Australia, THE most useless bunch of no hopers to ever exist.
Placed my order and took my payment immediately (of course) then 3 weeks of nothing, no tracking, nothing. Emailed several times after 3 weeks asking for tracking and finally got a response saying they had no stock and wouldn't be getting any more.....
That's a month of waiting gone, as annoyed as I was the next thing of course would be a refund? right?
Not that simple with these guys, they just don't reply, with the involvement of the bank this took another 3 weeks. Their communication placing the order was great, after that diabolical.
Moving on from that I found a company in the UK this time, total opposite experience and have those parts here now.
In all suffering a severe lack of interest and motivation the project has stalled and nothing has been achieved since the last update.
During the week Pro Coat sent me the completed front calipers which look fantastic so yesterday I thought I'd assemble them and put them on, things went well at first.
I had new kits for them, new pads so things should be easy......
(https://i.imgur.com/v0DJQ5v.jpg)
Cleaned up all of the old hardware, pistons, and bought some new stainless retaining bolts. Assembly was straight forward, pistons went in easy so all was well.
(https://i.imgur.com/mo5ZQgB.jpg)
Once I went to fit them on the car I realized the error I had made, when I received these calipers from the US one of the balance pipes was damaged so I made a new one. The calipers have arrows on them for the direction of travel of the disc and this is due to the fact that the leading piston is larger, I did not consider this back then and as a result installed the balance pipe in the wrong end.
Sent them off for powder coat that way and of course now cannot remove that pipe without mauling everything and that's exactly what happened yesterday. No matter what the pipe needs to be moved to the other end but the fittings wouldn't budge until the vise grips came out, pipe moved. Powder coat ruined. Time to chuck it in.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: liv on June 18, 2023, 08:43:54 PM
Sorry to hear about the troubles with the order!  That absolutely sucks. Am so glad that there?s at least progress again. Been here week after week looking for updates and hope they keep flowing.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: Period_Correct_ on June 19, 2023, 04:18:10 PM
The many highs and lows of project car life aye John... Its great when its good, and when its bad, its always winter too.... :(
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on June 19, 2023, 05:21:34 PM
Yeah man, relying on others is often the problem however this time I'm to blame.
We'll see how things pan out otherwise she's going to get parked for a while.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: RobClubley on June 19, 2023, 06:39:24 PM
Ohh man I feel your pain. So many times I reached the feeling of being almost done only to be shot down by the ugly truth of the next thing I didn?t know I had to fix. And I?m just a Google-trained amateur.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: coons on June 23, 2023, 05:51:00 PM
Wow, I had no idea this 'Other' section of the forum existed, it was collapsed down and I would just scroll past it. Pleasantly surprised to find this build thread, and has provided some great reading over the past couple of days to now be up to speed.

Seeing the progression through this thread, and seeing the car in person, this thing is epic. Awesome attention to detail, in typical John fashion it will probably be better than the day it rolled off the factory line! If I had $100k laying around there is no doubt about it I would have a 964 in my garage. So until then, great to follow this project and live vicariously though you!

You're getting quite the collection of bloody cool project cars. It must be difficult to know what to drive. Although the Ghia and Jetta are both off the road at the moment right?

Hopefully after your holiday you come back with some fresh motivation (and parts??  ;)). I can see the finish line for this is not too far away, although a good project often never has a true finish line..
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on July 02, 2023, 11:17:50 AM
Yep, Jetta I on hold and Ghia also. Both need finishing so are in a never ending cue waiting to be done.
Trying to at least progress things however small that may be, managed to get some yellow paint that matches the calipers pretty well and touched those up with a brush. Bit of epoxy primer first then several coats of yellow. Am I happy, no. But it will have to do.
The front rotors had gone a bit rusty from sitting around and wanted to clean those up, they measure fine and didn't really warrant wasting money to replace just yet.
In the blasting cabinet they go and hit them with glass bead cleaning them up, ran a DA with 120 grit over the pad surface to take the rust off.
Once clean a couple of coats of zinc spray will keep them from rusting, wiped away the zinc on the pad surface with thinners.
Once the car has working brakes the pads will take care of the rest ending up with zinc right up to the edges.
(https://i.imgur.com/AA6XRN3.jpg)
Rotors done they can go back where they belong with the calipers. Either lost the brake hard line from the strut to the caliper or used them on another car, the latter being more likely since the original calipers ended up on the Karmann Ghia.
Not much achieved but it is progress at least.
(https://i.imgur.com/ffeSBG1.jpg)
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: RS ZWEI on November 17, 2023, 10:28:24 AM
How are you getting on with the 964 John?
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: 80 Vert on November 18, 2023, 09:02:48 AM
Parked it Nik, lost interest in it after a bunch of not so nice things going on. Had thoughts of just selling it but decided in the end to keep it and just wait till some other stuff is resolved so that I can continue with it.
Title: Re: Porsche 964 1990 C4 rebuild
Post by: coons on November 23, 2023, 03:08:46 PM
Don't sell, the motivation will return. Will be a fantastic car once eventually done