Hey guys, I have 94 S4 that definitely needs new ATF. My transmission has the pipe for the dipstick but there is only a plug on it so i cant even check the ATF level...can anyone help me with the proper procedure for renewing the ATF? the draining and replacing the filter and seal is simple, its the filling that im unsure about since i cant check the level, maybe someone knows exactly how much ATF to put in?
cheers
ok so i found the dipstick at Qualitat $71 and has to be ordered from Germany... does anyone by any chance have one i could borrow (pt num: 01F 321 431 B)? if not im probably gona order it on monday
You just drain the sump, new filter, reinstall sump, fill until some oil comes out the fill hole, start it up and run though all the gears a few times, top up till overflowing, reinstall fill plug. Job Done
Andy that's not the correct procedure. If its anything like my v8 you need the dipstick. I got the lengths and diameter off some German website and made my own using Ali welding rod I had laying around. Be careful not to ovrfill your trans! The shop pumps the old atf out and puts in the same amount of new stuff if they don't have a dipstick but I don't like this method.
Yea my transmission doesn't have a fill hole, if it was half a year younger it would...it just has the dipstick pipe which acts as the filler therefore I need the dipstick to measure the level.
I got the dipstick on the way from Germany now so I should be able to do a proper job when it gets here :D
Good man. Make surre its the right temp when you check the level too
Today Qualitat contacted me that apparently even in Germany they don't have the dipstick anymore... :-\
Jared do you know the part number of the dipstick that is supposed to be in your car or maybe the your transmission model? i wonder if your dipstick sizes will be the same or different as I'll have to make my own too I guess...
http://www.audiv8.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=v8forum_eng&Number=56905&page=15&view=collapsed&sb=3&o=
Quote from: Lomax on April 02, 2012, 02:59:20 PM
Today Qualitat contacted me that apparently even in Germany they don't have the dipstick anymore... :-\
Jared do you know the part number of the dipstick that is supposed to be in your car or maybe the your transmission model? i wonder if your dipstick sizes will be the same or different as I'll have to make my own too I guess...
I finally have a response from the Dunedin Audi parts guy.
The "B" dipstick is correct and there are none. The "A" dipstick is not usable as far as they know.
No dipsticks at any of the wreckers on the South Island.
Looks like we are stuck with no dipstick - unless you have gotten one.
Sorry I couldn't help.
Take it to the dealers, if it is my trans 1994, it will take about (edit) 7 litres (from memory give or take) I think once they fully drain it. Apparently the problem with these trans can be if it has been drained and filled with Dexron II rather than the Audi/VW fluid but it depends on the year as there was a switch over from VW fluid to Dexron II at some point around 1994-1995 maybe. Apparently the change to Dexron II from the VW fluid can affect the clutches in the trans. But this might only cause slippage I donno..
But you are better off talking to the dealer to get the facts.
My trans is still going strong after 265000k, I don't have any issues with it at all. Sometimes you can accelerate to 50km/h and it won't change from 2nd to 3rd gear until you reach about 56km/h on the speedo, but who says the speedo readout is accurate or whatever it doesn't matter. 99% of the time it is in the right gear.
To me that is working top notch after 265000k.
user2154, if you have a '94 S4 your auto trans has a dynamic shift programme. There are five shift programmes which are automatically selected by a control unit.
The transmission is "self adapting" and will automatically select the most appropriate shift programme suited to the driving conditions and driving style.
See page 45 of your Instruction Manual for the rest of the details. You press the gas far and drive fast, the car shifts up later.
Quote from: volcanoblack on June 04, 2012, 11:51:19 PM
user2154, if you have a '94 S4 your auto trans has a dynamic shift programme. There are five shift programmes which are automatically selected by a control unit.
The transmission is "self adapting" and will automatically select the most appropriate shift programme suited to the driving conditions and driving style.
See page 45 of your Instruction Manual for the rest of the details. You press the gas far and drive fast, the car shifts up later.
Unfortunately I don't have a copy of the original S4 manual, and I don't always drive with my foot down, but I
have noticed something similar to what you describe. The last owner thought the gear shifts were a bit funny.. this dynamic shift program was probably the reason.
All said and done the car still runs great.
Thanks for the email about the brake pads the other day ;)
Is ^^this^^ you Mat?
Quote from: volcanoblack on May 16, 2012, 01:17:44 PM
I finally have a response from the Dunedin Audi parts guy.
The "B" dipstick is correct and there are none. The "A" dipstick is not usable as far as they know.
No dipsticks at any of the wreckers on the South Island.
Looks like we are stuck with no dipstick - unless you have gotten one.
Sorry I couldn't help.
ah well no worries, thanks for your help anyway
I received a dipstick from the website i ordered it from and of course its not the right one... :-\ they sent me a dipstick with GM part number...and its way longer than it should..
so yea i guess we are stuck without the dipstick...
user2154: if i had the money to take the car to the dealers, i wouldnt need be looking for the dipstick ;)
Drain the old stuff out and measure the amount.
Refill with the same amount. easy. Unless you have an obvious leak this will be the correct amount.
It does not matter if you slightly over fill them.
In fact the old GM gearboxes would start to suck air around the valve body and the trick was to over fill them and then it would suck fluid in and not air ;) Kept them going for years longer.
Everything I have read and heard states overfilling can cause sirvere damage, that's why audi took the dipstick out to eliminate home DIY people who don't understand, trying to do it themselves and consequently damaging their gearboxes. all has to be done right temp and needs to be run through gears etc.....
some .xps files relating to ATF on the S4, get them before they expire
http://www.filedropper.com/atflevel
http://www.filedropper.com/capacities
http://www.filedropper.com/changingandfillingafterrepair
http://www.filedropper.com/codeletters
Thanks Mat - no wonder they took the dipstick away from us! That ATF Level check procedure leaves a lot we could screw up.
Cheers
They don't need to make it so hard though they just do.
Thanks for the info
for the time being, it seems like my guess level of ATF is working fine :)
I'd say that when they took the dipstick out, they thought that if you have ~$160k for the car, you are not gonna do the trans service yourself, and they didnt care what happens 18 years later...
Well who knows. Plebs could top it up with Dexron II which would not mix well with the VAG fluid causing damage.
If there is no evidence of a leak then it does not need topping up.
Well that is up to plebs who own cars to do or not to do.
Fact is its like Vagnutter says the Audi power steering only leaks when morons top it up with ATF.
NO I say what happens is people get sick of pouring $60 a liter VAG oil into them when they can just let cheap red stuff leak out and it works ok for a while.
I myself just found a cheaper supply of the mineral oil at Air Flow Hydraulics.
Audi want to make it difficult and say the trans don't need servicing in their life time.
Good for them not so good for you as an older Audi owner.
It is what it is.
I use the citreon lhm oil, its pretty cheap,
Its cheaper to use the correct oil than it is to use the wrong oil and have to rebuild pumps, racks and transmissions
Not when the person has no intention of ever getting that stuff rebuilt it ain't.
My point is people don't only do it because they are plebs they do it because they get sick of pouring expensive oil into something that wore out prematurely even when it was on the correct oil, like VAG PS and Transmissions.
I am yet to come across a leaking pump or rack that has always had the proper oil, all my cars are nz new with full service history and have done 300,000km+ and none of them leak,
::)
Well I have seen plenty of leaks Basil my old bean.
No doubt retard mechanics who do a job and have to drop the PS oil then do shorten there lives with ATF refills.
Hey most old Audi can last great if looked after but the PS pumps leaked all the time on the 100s and 200s etc and im sure some still had the right oil.
Its just mineral hydraulic oil.
And why is ATF so bad for them? Its safe with rubber isn't it? I have heard it swells the seals? I think the oil lubricates the rams better than ATF does is more the issue.
Im affraid I have some ATF in the PS system, but so far no leaks, just the usual slightly wet PS pump (same as I had on my audi 80, 90 and my mates 100tq).
I just had an idea for the transmission level, if somebody with an S6 could measure the distance from the bottom of the oil pan to the fill plug bolt, we could have some reference that could be used to measure how high the level should be inside the dipstick tube, what do you guys think?
I'm counting on the pan being the same with only the dipstick tube and fill plug difference.
I beleive the s6 trans is different, I have a spare s6 trans so can take some pics and measurements
I have just had a new filter etc and flush done on my S4 trans, to quote the receipt:
"A lot of extra time was spent trying to locate a transmission dipstick or dipstick length. The best solution to obtaining the trans level was from a trans shop that had done a service on one a couple of weeks earlier and had the same problem. His advise was: Fill the trans pan cold, engine running, in park, to the trans pan gasket level which means making up a temporary dipstick to measure."
Measure what comes out and refill the same amount, easy unless there was a big leak.
So is the newer fill from the bottom of the sump ones easier to do than the I don't have a dumb dipstick ones?
Quote from: zeitgeist on July 12, 2012, 11:26:30 PM
I have just had a new filter etc and flush done on my S4 trans, to quote the receipt:
"A lot of extra time was spent trying to locate a transmission dipstick or dipstick length. The best solution to obtaining the trans level was from a trans shop that had done a service on one a couple of weeks earlier and had the same problem. His advise was: Fill the trans pan cold, engine running, in park, to the trans pan gasket level which means making up a temporary dipstick to measure."
Hopefully you will take the car back to the trans shop and have them follow the recommended procedure now that user2154 has kindly posted them above.
What procedure? Can't do anything with those links in the absence of a dipstick.
Quote from: zeitgeist on July 12, 2012, 11:26:30 PM
I have just had a new filter etc and flush done on my S4 trans, to quote the receipt:
"A lot of extra time was spent trying to locate a transmission dipstick or dipstick length. The best solution to obtaining the trans level was from a trans shop that had done a service on one a couple of weeks earlier and had the same problem. His advise was: Fill the trans pan cold, engine running, in park, to the trans pan gasket level which means making up a temporary dipstick to measure."
so what, did they fill your one up to the gasket? seems like too much to me, I dont think I have that much in my one...
They did, and you are probably right. However it is running excellently with no probs. For a car that is half the value of the Caldina GT I desired, I'm not going to any extra lengths to satisfy curiosity now.
Its not so hard you measure what comes out and put that back in.
It was common to slightly over fill auto boxes so the fluid covered the valve bodies so if the gaskets were leaking they sucked in fluid and not air.
Vag people love to think things are more difficult than they really are.
^Good call. It would be mad to not have a factor of safety built into something like this.
Incidentally I am a mechanical engineer.
People are so addicted to procedure these days.
Ok there is good reason for procedure but to then freeze up if you can't follow it is bad.
If us mechanics went off searching the interweb every time we didn't know exactly how to do something we would never be off it.
That said I love what I learn from the web.
I always measure what comes out of gearboxes if they are of the stipulatusmakenotobvious variety.
Agree.
Notice I am skirting around the fact that my mechanic didn't measure. I figured no point in lecturing him after the fact.
I spend most of my time not doing mechanics so I can then go out and make all the mistakes I pretend I'm better than on the interweb :P
I'd better go do some car grovelling now :P :P
Quote from: zeitgeist on July 16, 2012, 04:54:35 PM
What procedure? Can't do anything with those links in the absence of a dipstick.
Open the attachments with Internet Explorer.
The last procedure is for vehicles without a dipstick - and simply involves warming the car up and selecting all gears. Checking the level at the fill plug. Filling to the gasket cold might yield a good level when warm and after using all the gears but I would simply ask the shop to check it via the fill plug hole as described. Here is the text from the ATF Checking doc.
"ATF Level, Vehicles from 5/94, Checking and Correcting
Note:
The ATF level is checked at the ATF check-plug hole.
The ATF level is correct if fluid slightly runs out at the ATF check-plug hole with ATF temperature between 35 ? C and 45 ? C * See note (caused by the increase in the fluid level during warm-up)."
"After ATF temperature of 35 ? C is reached, remove ATF check-plug ( - arrow 1 - ) and if necessary drain excess fluid.
If ATF leaks out of ATF check-plug hole before ATF has reached 40 ? C, ATF level is OK.
Note: The ATF check-plug must be reinstalled when ATF temperature reaches 45 ? C * See note."
Oh yes sorry I saw all that but my sump has only the drain hole, no side filling hole either. It is a bottom point, ie. does not have a tube running up from it through which to vertically fill. It is the 'in between' models sump.
God knows why they couldn't just make it easy from the start and stick to that.......
Europeans.
Good news, i have found a dipstick at one authorized Audi parts dealer in the Czech Republic, so I had my dad buy it form me and I now have it here and it seems to be the right one ;D
I measured my ATF level and I found out I had well below minimum so I fixed it straight away
Oooooo may I pay a visit?
we can organize something 8)