Im dicing with the idea of getting either a Scorpion or Milltek exhaust for the TT. Price for both is around $1000-$1100 from the UK which seems pretty good. Anyone had any experience with either of these ?
The sound clips on YouTube sound great for both and i'm wondering if drone would be an issue for either one, and of course decibel level for getting a WOF.
Any feedback \ suggestions welcomed.
How much noise do you want?
Has your car got 0, 1 or 2 resonators underneath?
In this image....
(https://www.vask.org.nz/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcobrasport.com%2Fmedia%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fcache%2F1%2Fimage%2F650x650%2F9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95%2Fa%2Fu%2Faudi-tt-3.2-v6-sports-exhaust-fitted-4.jpg&hash=232cb583f5df2cd00dfa8b4703420c29d7edeb62)
... you can see it has 1 resonator fitted, about halfway along the floor pan, in one pipe.
If your car is a japanese import, it wouldn't surprise me if you have 2 fitted - my A3 3.2 parts car did.
The Golf R32's didn't have any, and it does give such a nice burble!
Where the two resonators would be/are, there is just a straight pipe replacment - you could always try it for not much dollars :-) and then you could keep your warranty extension 8)
Quick look under I have Cats on downpipe, small resonator, then a larger one before the muffler, its a Japanese import.
I did look at cutting out a resonator but heard it can be raspy and a bit drony at highway speed....sound clips of the Miltek sound pretty awesome.
On the resonator cutout option I found this
http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1057257
Pricing up all the parts to do this (not including beer for my welder) $300NZ...or $325 if opting for Adrenalin R resonator over Magnaflow. Could be a cost effective stage one upgrade and then look at getting Adrenalin R to do a 1 in 2 out back box at some stage...although from the sound clip above it sounds pretty good.
He swapped the "rear" resonator (near rear axle) with the magnaflow.
You could just start with the front resonator, which would only be a bit of pipe, and some welding (or find a second hand R32 exhaust).
Cutting out the rear res entirely does make it drony and raspy, from what I hear.
On my R32 Touran, I have no front resonators (as per R32), but the rear one (in front of rear axle) is still there - at the time, it fed into the stock Touran rear "suitcase" muffler, and it sounded awesome - quiet-ish, but very purposeful! I'm altering the rear muffler to include the R32 flapper valve, and better flow when it opens it.
Quote from: Worms on July 26, 2017, 10:55:33 AM
He swapped the "rear" resonator (near rear axle) with the magnaflow.
You could just start with the front resonator, which would only be a bit of pipe, and some welding (or find a second hand R32 exhaust).
Cutting out the rear res entirely does make it drony and raspy, from what I hear.
On my R32 Touran, I have no front resonators (as per R32), but the rear one (in front of rear axle) is still there - at the time, it fed into the stock Touran rear "suitcase" muffler, and it sounded awesome - quiet-ish, but very purposeful! I'm altering the rear muffler to include the R32 flapper valve, and better flow when it opens it.
Sounds like plan, start small and work my way up if I need more sound. I quite like the stock burble, would just like a little more volume and excitement at the lower rpm range.
If you cut out CAT's? Othere than a tune required to accommodate.
I will highly recommend putting in resonators in their place. the 3.2 motor requires back pressure. Otherwise you will actually loose power.
Additionally, no CATS etc, will be drony too.
Lastly, get a scorpion, the miltek product are simply not up to their durability back in the day. Additionally are not the best in terms of flow either.
If it's anything like the Subaru H6 then I would highly recommend keeping your CATS in place.
Removing the cats on that made it really raspy.
Quote from: McDoof on July 26, 2017, 12:53:20 PM
If it's anything like the Subaru H6 then I would highly recommend keeping your CATS in place.
Removing the cats on that made it really raspy.
Yep a flat 6 and a vr6 will sound exactly the same
Quote from: McDoof on July 26, 2017, 12:53:20 PM
If it's anything like the Subaru H6 then I would highly recommend keeping your CATS in place.
Removing the cats on that made it really raspy.
Amen to that, did the Subtech front pipe on our 04 Legacy GT and quickly added a Adrenalin R resonator to the system to get rid of that nasty raspy sound.
Quote from: GLIDN on July 26, 2017, 12:18:01 PM
If you cut out CAT's? Othere than a tune required to accommodate.
I will highly recommend putting in resonators in their place. the 3.2 motor requires back pressure. Otherwise you will actually loose power.
Additionally, no CATS etc, will be drony too.
Lastly, get a scorpion, the miltek product are simply not up to their durability back in the day. Additionally are not the best in terms of flow either.
Found some scorpion clips here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oArtSsWiOJU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeZ1QBGoZsQ
Can get this from Demon Tweaks for $1077NZ shipped, but note that the rear valance needs to be cut (unless welding stock tips back on. No going back from that.
How about Cobra ? any good ?
The cats are the ones right at the front. Don't cut them out - emissions go up, yes... but so does the stink! Non cat cars smell BAAAAD!
2 seconds behind my '72 Beetle and you get a headache, you'd probably survive fine, for 20 minutes in a closed garage with my mrs BMW.
I doubt there's any real performance to be gained from an exhaust swap on an R32 engine anyway - everything else is farly restrictive , and they're by NO means a "performance" engine - they're very average output, though the low end torque is quite good, for their day.
The front parts can all be changed with R32 bits, and the rear suitcase muffler can probably be modded to be a lot like the R32 muffler.
I have some pics of the inside of an R32 rear muffler somewhere - One pipe goes around the inside in a loop and through some convoluted paths, and the other is a straight through pipe full of little holes to the flapper, which opens at the right times 8)
Just changing the exhaust will not get you a much of a gain. If you match your new flowing exhaust with an ECU remap you can get a bit out of it. I only know this from my H6 Legacy. ECU remap alone gained around 15kw. Made a much cleaner torque curve.
Added headers and removed a restrictive 3rd cat from the system and remapped to match and got another 12kw.
By no means the sort of gains you get with a turbo engine, but well worth it in my opinion.
Quote from: McDoof on July 26, 2017, 07:45:16 PM
Just changing the exhaust will not get you a much of a gain. If you match your new flowing exhaust with an ECU remap you can get a bit out of it. I only know this from my H6 Legacy. ECU remap alone gained around 15kw. Made a much cleaner torque curve.
Added headers and removed a restrictive 3rd cat from the system and remapped to match and got another 12kw.
By no means the sort of gains you get with a turbo engine, but well worth it in my opinion.
Not really after any gains, just seeking a bit more of the wookie sound in the low end and perhaps some volume \ decibels up in the top end.
Id really like to trial a Adrenalin R resonator, but I suppose the Magnaflow has been proven and Ill know what im going to get sound wise.
Your noise killers are these 2. I realise this may not be the exact layout of your exhaust (I think you may have twin exit) but the principals are the same
If you are just after noise then you start with the axle back section. These are normally baffled. Something free flowing will give you some extra growl. If you still want more then replace the resonator under the fuel tank. I'd leave the rest as is.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4299/36186548985_2a91d887b5_o.png)
Quote from: McDoof on July 27, 2017, 10:06:31 AM
Your noise killers are these 2. I realise this may not be the exact layout of your exhaust (I think you may have twin exit) but the principals are the same
If you are just after noise then you start with the axle back section. These are normally baffled. Something free flowing will give you some extra growl. If you still want more then replace the resonator under the fuel tank. I'd leave the rest as is.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4299/36186548985_2a91d887b5_o.png)
Yep bar the twin exit, those resonators are the ones I have. The scorpion system does exactly what you are suggesting ditches the rear muffler and large resonator, while the Tampa Mod ditches small resonator and replaces the large one with a free flowing resonator.
One is a $300 mod and the other a $1000
I suppose the question is based on the 2 youtube clips which sounds better. I marginally prefer the scorpion exhaust sound, but the Tampa mod also sounds little bit better than stock.
The large resonator will be the one the keeps the drone under control.
Quote from: McDoof on July 27, 2017, 12:49:56 PM
The large resonator will be the one the keeps the drone under control.
Highlights how good the Milltek system is that they can drop this component and create something that isn't drony.
Im also wondering if I just fit an electric valve\cutout and open up it up occasionally for when I want some noise ?
Quote from: heylinb4nz on July 27, 2017, 02:22:58 PM
Highlights how good the Milltek system is that they can drop this component and create something that isn't drony.
Im also wondering if I just fit an electric valve\cutout and open up it up occasionally for when I want some noise ?
Technically not legal.
See Point 4
https://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/in-service-wof-and-cof/general/exhaust/exhaust-system
Magnaflow sounds nice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANDvrf5ua8
Quote from: McDoof on July 27, 2017, 02:45:25 PM
Magnaflow sounds nice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANDvrf5ua8
Agree, caters for the deeper sporty end of the sound spectrum...sounds nice, but it runs the whole rpm range, in that regards I think the factory system is great in that it covers a full range from deep sporty burbling sound under load in mid range rpm and that roaring\screaming\raspy sound at high rpm....just needs a little more noise at low rpm and a bit of a sound increase across the board to make it heard a little more.
Hope you get the sound you are after
My Legacy sounded like this. Quiet when cruising but let you know that there was something going on when you gave it some stick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD_4X4pum50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm8RJ9CgaAQ
Quote from: McDoof on July 27, 2017, 04:28:20 PM
Hope you get the sound you are after
My Legacy sounded like this. Quiet when cruising but let you know that there was something going on when you gave it some stick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD_4X4pum50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm8RJ9CgaAQ
Love the 3.0R, almost got one before discovering the joys of German cars, otherwise would be in a modded 3.0R now. Planned to do headers, exhaust, intake and remap...apprently good for around 210KW of NA goodness (gain of 30kw over stock, and same as a stock 2L turbo manual)
Quote from: heylinb4nz on July 27, 2017, 05:02:42 PM
Love the 3.0R, almost got one before discovering the joys of German cars, otherwise would be in a modded 3.0R now. Planned to do headers, exhaust, intake and remap...apprently good for around 210KW of NA goodness (gain of 30kw over stock, and same as a stock 2L turbo manual)
Yea, mine was around 210kw. 165awkw on the dyno. Linear power delivery and a torque curve so flat you could eat off it. Best engine I have had to date. The problem I had with the Legacy is that it's an "almost" car and needs a lot of tweaking to make it a really good car. I could just see myself pouring more and more money into it.
ECU remap alone sorts out pretty 90% of all the engine issues if it's done right. The tuner I was using even worked with me to to get the exhaust note right.
But it needs more supportive seats, better sway bars, more feeling in the steering and so on and so forth.
So now I have a MK5 GTI. ECU Stage 1. Job done. Everything else in the VW is pretty much spot on.
Quote from: McDoof on July 28, 2017, 09:20:56 AM
Yea, mine was around 210kw. 165awkw on the dyno. Linear power delivery and a torque curve so flat you could eat off it. Best engine I have had to date. The problem I had with the Legacy is that it's an "almost" car and needs a lot of tweaking to make it a really good car. I could just see myself pouring more and more money into it.
ECU remap alone sorts out pretty 90% of all the engine issues if it's done right. The tuner I was using even worked with me to to get the exhaust note right.
But it needs more supportive seats, better sway bars, more feeling in the steering and so on and so forth.
So now I have a MK5 GTI. ECU Stage 1. Job done. Everything else in the VW is pretty much spot on.
We used to have a 04 (BL5 series) Legacy, used Gary Capper in Pukekohe for tune (subtech front pipe, simota filter and nolathane LCAs) that was running 190KW at all 4, really liked that car just not enough space for 2 kids and all the paraphenalia.
Currently sporting a Infiniti branded Fuga 450GT...(250kw RWD) but next family sedan will be a Euro (eyeing up an S5 Sportback or tuned A7) as you say they just work well out of the box with minimal effort and feel better built compared to most Jap cars.
After watching this video many many times im starting to think the tampa mod might be a little too "Wookie" sounding ? not easily reversible either compared to a cat back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0ZjJws54Os
Contacted demon tweeks today and asked about Scorpion and Cobra system....listened to quite a few Cobra vids and am really leaning this way, but various accounts say it might be quite loud.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KwCbm4Wji0 (from 48 seconds)
If it helps, here are pics from an A3 3.2 rear muffler and a MK5 R32 Rear muffler:
A3:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4342/36155214952_85139782cd_z.jpg)
R32:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4339/35514966903_b989e951ce_z.jpg)
Both have been hacked up, but you can see the design/flow. Both had glasswool packing in the left side chambers. The R32 internal pipes were joined up in basically the layout you see - I was altering it, but have gone a different way, for now.
Just chop out the rear muffler as a test and see what it sounds like. Maybe all you need is a Y pipe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhxdRm-nKtg
Quote from: McDoof on August 02, 2017, 01:53:45 PM
Just chop out the rear muffler as a test and see what it sounds like. Maybe all you need is a Y pipe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhxdRm-nKtg
That does actually sound quite good, id be worried about drone at cruising speed though. After watching a few more Cobra vids the non resonated will definitely be way to loud. I picked up a Demon Tweeks 10% off voucher and added to the discount they already do on a Resonated Cobra it comes to $900NZ shipped...which gives me option to remove resonator if I want louder.
$900 seems pretty good as it will be single cut and weld and if i dont like it should be able to swap back and no doubt another 3.2 owner will snap up.
Sound clip here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nWPui5e_Co
Don't forget that you will pay another 15% when it arrives here. Anything over $400 attracts GST
Quote from: McDoof on August 03, 2017, 10:57:28 AM
Don't forget that you will pay another 15% when it arrives here. Anything over $400 attracts GST
Mabey :) its through Parcelforce, I've never incurred GST through their delivery, but DHL, Fedex etc almost always.
But yeah good point that may take it over the $1000 mark (which psychologically doesn't seem as much of a bargain). I'm not even sure why i'm humming and haaing about it, money isnt an issue for me...but my main objectives is to do it properlyfirst time and get something I like the sound of....ideally with the least amount of customisation, chopping and cutting.
Plus I can legit use a Cobra sticker on the quarter windows if I go the offical route :)
Quote from: McDoof on August 03, 2017, 10:57:28 AM
Don't forget that you will pay another 15% when it arrives here. Anything over $400 attracts GST
Hit and miss. Expect to pay but they only catch and charge a few.
Just be careful with customs they are extremely sharp. Not sure what your imported system will cost you but as mentioned if the value is over $400 expect to pay GST and possibly duty. Is there no local performance exhaust outlet who can do this for you?
Quote from: DTM on August 03, 2017, 09:17:22 PM
Just be careful with customs they are extremely sharp. Not sure what your imported system will cost you but as mentioned if the value is over $400 expect to pay GST and possibly duty. Is there no local performance exhaust outlet who can do this for you?
I'd usually use Adrenalin R gear, 2 of their oval Chambers in a config like scorpion.....but sound wise will be hit and miss..loved the sound on my MR2 Turbo...but not sure what to expect on the TT. Price wise would be about same with a friend doing the welding.
Quote from: DTM on August 03, 2017, 09:17:22 PM
Just be careful with customs they are extremely sharp. Not sure what your imported system will cost you but as mentioned if the value is over $400 expect to pay GST and possibly duty. Is there no local performance exhaust outlet who can do this for you?
i got my exhaust from a local store and they had to order in the model I wanted and it ended up getting delayed by a week as customs was holding it for some reason
Got a reply back from Cobra Sports, they advised that the non resonated version is indeed quite loud and not really suited to highway driving for long periods. So by the sounds of it the resonated version is the way to go.
I'm thinking at this stage the resonated version with removal of the small pre silencer after the cat may yield a good result....essentially the Tampa mod but with a Cobra resonator instead of Magnaflow and Cobra rear instead of factory.
On the custom route I feel that these companies (MIlltek, Cobra, Scorpion) have put in the R&D on the Audi platforms so its less of a crapshot as to what sound I will get. + resonators are cheap quick and easy to tune the sound if need be.
FYI My New Clutch kit came in via DHL this week. Got it valued under $400 still got Taxed.
other part many do not remember or realize.
Not all parts imported or subjective to the same import costs (on imported value)
Depending on what you import? You also can be charged duty, depending on product.
For Example brake pads had a 22% duty charge last time I imported brakes. Which only gets applied after the GST has been applied on imported costs.
OK so after ALOT of research into the Tampa Mod vs TT Catback systems (Cobra, Milltek and Scorpion) it seems the major drawback on the aftermarket route is the element of harshness it brings to the VR6 note (even if resonated). VW got the note right for the R32 Golf and i've decided that will be great improvement to the TT without going too far. If more is needed then im sure I can add a custom back muffler later on.
So its looking like a full length Tampa mod is on the cards :) and ill make sure to do a decent before \ after vid once complete.
Sourced a Magnaflow 10416 for $130NZ shipped + $25 for a 45 degree bend + $50 for a straight....so $205NZ all up (plus some beer for my welder )
Again the end sound of this mod on 3.2 TT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0ZjJws54Os
Compared to a stock R32 Golf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiZ5pVmuZPU
if it's of any help?
I have a mk6R catback exhaust. As well as a S3 Catback exhaust if either maybe of any use?
people these days are too worried about drone, back in the day before resonaters and cataclytic converters powerful cars all had drone, drone means power - embrace the drone :)
Quote from: Naekyr on August 08, 2017, 08:26:27 PM
people these days are too worried about drone, back in the day before resonaters and cataclytic converters powerful cars all had drone, drone means power - embrace the drone :)
It's called progress. 8)
Quote from: Naekyr on August 08, 2017, 08:26:27 PM
people these days are too worried about drone, back in the day before resonaters and cataclytic converters powerful cars all had drone, drone means power - embrace the drone :)
The car is about the only place I get time to enjoy music these days, so definitely hope drone wont be an issue. Going by reviews of that Magnaflow it does a good job at removing those frequencies. Easy enough to add another short resonator back in upstream if thats the case.
my experience will milltek exhausts is they pretty much avoid drone all together, at the top end they sound a little softer than other makes but its worth it if you want to avoid drone, also just turn up the volume 8)
Quote from: Naekyr on August 09, 2017, 11:11:42 AM
my experience will milltek exhausts is they pretty much avoid drone all together, at the top end they sound a little softer than other makes but its worth it if you want to avoid drone, also just turn up the volume 8)
I must admit i'm a bit bored of the EDM, Glitchhop, House and Gangster Rap .............so perhaps this upgrade will give me something else to listen to.
I've got the exact same setup as this one, you can hear what I mean - with the slow pull away you can't hear much and its the same in cabin, there is no drone with cruising and little sound with slow pull away, also startup is more muted and revving sounds only slightly better than stock - but thats what Milltek aims for.
The system comes into its element when you put your foot down which happens at the end of the video
Not sure if you can embed youtube videos on this forum?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGtBBcer4Ds
Well I went and did the full length Tampa Mod last week. All up it was $270 parts and fitting (mates rates). Yet to get sound clips (letting it bed in a bit more). Initial thoughts are WOW, this is how the 3.2 TT should have sounded from the factory. Regular driving its all very close to stock sound below 2800 rpm, above that it really sings in a good way, under load in low rpm has a nice VR6 thump to it.
Throttle response feels much smoother, and also slightly quicker across the rev range (i also run a K&N and the car just feels more connected to what the accelerator is doing.
Plan to get some stationary and drive-by shots with the HD camcorder once the weather sorts itself out !!.
that's awesome news.
first thing I cannot recommend highly enough is to remove the K&N intake filter. it's the quickest way of death for the airflow sensor.
depending on where in NZ you are?
I can easily provide extra power. Usually around 12-18kw @ all 4 wheels too. Not to mention the extra torque.
Quote from: heylinb4nz on October 06, 2017, 02:45:05 PM
Well I went and did the full length Tampa Mod last week. All up it was $270 parts and fitting (mates rates). Yet to get sound clips (letting it bed in a bit more). Initial thoughts are WOW, this is how the 3.2 TT should have sounded from the factory. Regular driving its all very close to stock sound below 2800 rpm, above that it really sings in a good way, under load in low rpm has a nice VR6 thump to it.
Throttle response feels much smoother, and also slightly quicker across the rev range (i also run a K&N and the car just feels more connected to what the accelerator is doing.
Plan to get some stationary and drive-by shots with the HD camcorder once the weather sorts itself out !!.
Optimistic numbers are easy to quote, harder to back up.
dont reccomend a K&N aftermarket air filter either, you can google them to find all the issues people have had over the years
unsure if a complete replacement (CAI) would be better though (for reliability and longevity)
Quote from: Naekyr on October 08, 2017, 07:57:40 AM
dont reccomend a K&N aftermarket air filter either, you can google them to find all the issues people have had over the years
unsure if a complete replacement (CAI) would be better though (for reliability and longevity)
Must be people over oiling ? I've had Simota and/or KN oiled filters on all my cars over past 20 years never once had a air sensor fail.
Quote from: heylinb4nz on October 08, 2017, 09:08:01 AM
Must be people over oiling ? I've had Simota and/or KN oiled filters on all my cars over past 20 years never once had a air sensor fail.
crapanese cars other than subaru don't mind.
VW/Audi are very specific to intake choices.
Simota filters are dry filters not oil based. Hence little issues with them.
I have been running K&N filters in every car I have owned in the last 15 years without issues. I think people have issues with them if they service them wrong. Either too much oil so they foul the maf or too little oil which makes them ineffective as a filter. I use the aerosol oil to oil mine.
Quote from: McDoof on October 09, 2017, 09:10:45 AM
I have been running K&N filters in every car I have owned in the last 15 years without issues. I think people have issues with them if they service them wrong. Either too much oil so they foul the maf or too little oil which makes them ineffective as a filter. I use the aerosol oil to oil mine.
Perhaps. I will always advise anyone with an Audi/VW to not use any intake with an oil based system.
Got my first sound clip up, will get some take offs filmed as it sounds really nice under load.
https://youtu.be/4VMmsXikdM0 (https://youtu.be/4VMmsXikdM0)
Sounds good
Quote from: heylinb4nz on October 10, 2017, 01:32:18 PM
Got my first sound clip up, will get some take offs filmed as it sounds really nice under load.
https://youtu.be/4VMmsXikdM0 (https://youtu.be/4VMmsXikdM0)
Sounds really good.
And now for the best clip so far
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGlX0OV9Wlg&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGlX0OV9Wlg&feature=youtu.be)
That sounds good.
Can you elaborate more about this Tampa Mod? I have a mk5 r32 and i?m looking at a cheaper way to get a better sound out of it too 😁
Quote from: slowmo on October 11, 2017, 11:48:19 AM
That sounds good.
Can you elaborate more about this Tampa Mod? I have a mk5 r32 and i?m looking at a cheaper way to get a better sound out of it too 😁
Everything you need here
http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1057257
Cheapest source for the Magnaflow 10416 for me was Amazon $130NZD shipped. Most exhaust shops you should be able to supply just this part and they will do the rest.
sounds just like an R32 now, good job sounds mint :)